Atletico Madrid have been successfull in a 442 the past few years.
Andrea Belotti
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My apologies but anyone who watched United last season, would understand we need players of the ilk you questioned! Quite self explanatory. However, if you insist, I can try and explain to you why we need "numbers". You will get bored
Really? Cause it seems to me he's the most advanced player that started on our side bar Martial, which I suppose that's where a secondary-striker would appear.
I'm confused with Morata being used in many people's potential formations as a 10 or support striker as he's an out and out central striker, if we wanted a support striker or a 10 surely we'd not have decided against activating Griezmann's release fee seeing as Griezmann is arguably the best support striker in the game outside of Messi.
If Belotti had been in the season just gones form for 2 or 3 seasons then I'd say yeah let's go on for him but does anyone remember Immobile or Cerci who both had great seasons for Torino and scored lots of goals so got a big move to Dortmund and Atletico respectively and have done nothing since, one good season in a league where only one team wins and the rest can finish anywhere isn't enough for me to want us to spend £80 million on.
If Belotti had been in the season just gones form for 2 or 3 seasons then I'd say yeah let's go on for him but does anyone remember Immobile or Cerci who both had great seasons for Torino and scored lots of goals so got a big move to Dortmund and Atletico respectively and have done nothing since, one good season in a league where only one team wins and the rest can finish anywhere isn't enough for me to want us to spend £80 million on.
We don't need numbers for the sake of having numbers. We need a coherent system and players who will fit that system. A one striker formation with Morata as first choice, with Rashford and Martial as rotational cover is more than acceptable. Signing Belotti for 100m euros or whatever exorbitant price he'll cost only to have him sit on the bench makes virtually zero sense.
I suppose you can follow suit of suggesting any other radical formations like a 3-5-2 or an ordinary 4-4-2, but I'd be extremely surprised to see Mourinho line us up in anything other than a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1.
The solution isn't to sign two strikers. The solution would be to sign one - Morata OR Belotti - and then sign another attacker; either a no.10 or a winger.
We didn't play with two strikers in any of those games. We (pretty much) always play either a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3. With wide forwards and attacking midfielders in addition to a striker.
An attacking mid rather than another striker (assuming we're sticking with a similar formation). Don't know who though, hopefully someone good!
We “decided” against Griezmann because he dumped us!
Yeah trying their luck in case we're sniffing around.
As if Mkhitaryan, Mata, Lingard wasn't enough of that?
Not two strikers, man, two forwards!
That was when we used to play 2 strikers in a 442. We now only play one striker, so need half as many.
Maybe why we only score half the goals.
If we sign him we're playing 2 up top, simple as that. Maybe as the two striking options that Lingard and Rashford played as v Chelsea. Everything is pointing to 3 at the back imo.
Could be!
So who would your cover be on the wings if Martial and Rashford don't start on the wings? What happens if Morata gets injured? Who will rotate Rashford/Martial then? Are either Rashford or Martial adept at holding up the ball like Morata/Belotti do?
What done us over towrds the end of last years campaign was numbers. Not just numbers but quality. Reality is, we need numbers, especially with the likes of Zlatan & Rooney leaving. Ok, Rooney hasn't left but you can clearly see Mourinho will not play him.
With Griezmann playing as a second forward - a role neither Morata not Belotti are very well suited for
I would be ecstatic if we sign belotti too. Signing belotti will solve a lot of problems, first we can get goals from all our attackers and not just rely on morata to bail us through. Second, both morata abd belotti can take pressure off each other. We don't need a situation where all the attention is on morata and if he goes goalless for 3 or 4 games , the press will start banging for his head just like they did with pogba. We need goals and having two front line strikers will solve our problem.
He's not that much ahead of Herrera in that graphic. Anyway, it wasn't a 4-4-2. If it was, Rooney would have been much closer to their CBs when they had the ball (he was in midfield mostly).
Had a good look at him tonight and while it was the power house of Liechtenstein, He looked very very good.
I think we need to talk about Kevin, sorry Andrea. If he is not leaving Torino fine there is next season will do. But if he is on the move, we need to be the ones asking all the right questions.
I think we need to talk about Kevin, sorry Andrea. If he is not leaving Torino fine there is next season will do. But if he is on the move, we need to be the ones asking all the right questions.
Don't disagree with your view on the formation but I still don't think it's overkill though.
Say Perisic and Morata (assuming both sign) get injured/lose form, Martial and Rashford cover those positions then who? Lingard? Rooney? Not ideal. We'd still be one short with two attacking additions. While Depay didn't play much last season, he was an option and still hasn't been replaced.
Not saying it should specifically be Belotti but I really think three attacking additions is the right number. That's also taking into account that hopefully Rooney does move on because even if he stays I really can't see him being used much.
It's a long season. Hopefully we'll have a run in Europe and the cups and we need adequate cover and competition for places for that. Competition keeps players on their toes, they should be looking over their shoulder worried about their place. If the Martial of most of last season turns up, we should have enough adequate options to sit his arse in the stand. He needs a massive improvement in form and attitude to be relied upon anyway.
It will, as always with Mourinho, unless he really trusts the attacking flow of the team, dependent on the adversary. Tactical flexibility will be of use constantly. Now, lower table teams should be welcomed to OT with two powerful forwards, not overcautious 4-3-3.
Have you seen them play? Cause they actually excel at ball recovery tracking back, and specially Belotti is a pain in the ass following midfielders around. Of course they haven't got playmaking characteristics, but when facing buses at home, half our games, they would be most useful.
Make it a 4-4-1-1, then, if that makes you happy. The point is, since Rashford played upfront, Mourinho felt the need to have someone closer to him than Zlatan needed. And I'm seeing more and more of that coming next season.
What 'done us over' was ridiculous amounts of game-time down to being in the Europa League and weak rotation when it was possible. You guys are being too extreme with your hypothetical injuries. We'd have slightly more cover than any of our direct rivals.
Morata*, Martial, Rashford, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lingard, Perisic*, and at a push, Pereira. That's 8 players. Contrast that to those around us; Chelsea seem to have 5 (Hazard, Costa, Willian, Pedro, Michy); Liverpool have 5 (Mane, Coutinho, Firmino, Origi, Sturridge); Spurs have 7 (Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Son, Lamela, Janssen, Sissoko); Arsenal have 7 (Alexis, Ozil, Giroud, Welbeck, Walcott, Ox, Iwobi, Perez). Only City will have more, and they overload themselves with about 5 of those starting anyway, so it's not really numbers for cover.
I'd assume each of those will make one or two signings, or end up replacing - i.e. Lukaku for Costa. All will end up on similar-ish amounts of attackers. Most likely anywhere from 6-8 attackers for most of the top sides.
Having 3 players for every position definitely is overkill but if you insist we must replace Memphis, those minutes could go to someone like Pereira.
In 4-2-3-1, Mourinho's favorite template, we now have 5 players (Lingard, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Martial, Rashford… I'm not counting Rooney) for 4 positions, and if you just add, as expected, Perišić, Morata and Belotti, we get exactly 8 players, so precisely what we need. Of course, if you're imagining we'll play 4-3-3 all the time, 8 is way too much. But we aren't, so no worries there.
I did. Griezmann is roaming around looking for openings, he has good vision and passing, etc. How is their workrate and pressing are going to compensate for that?
Not every 4-4-2 has to use second striker - and Morata/Belotti in theory can become something like Yorke-Cole duo, but it was you who suggested Atletico's 4-4-2 system as a point of reference (which has nothing to do with our hypothetical line up with Morata and Belotti up top)
edit: sorry, it wasn't you - it was the guy I originally replied to.
We played 4-3-3 for large parts of last season and our team is well suited to playing it again next season. I'm not sure how you can be so dismissive.
But either way, it doesn't make sense to sign another striker if we continue to play a one striker system.
Even by your logic, since Rashford isn't a striker who can play alone upfront now, we still need two, one to start and another to be on the bench.
If we're signing an additional striker - which we don't need - solely to be a bench player, it won't be 100m Eur valued Belotti.
Of course he can. He was far more effective there than he was on the wing too.
It wasn't a 4-4-1-1 though, it was a 4-3-3. And 4-4-1-1 isn't two up front.
Why should this year moving forward we shouldn't play as many games as we did the year gone by? We should be trying to win every competition we're in. Ok, if not injuries, what about when players lise form, then what? Our last winning season, RVP, Rooney, Welbz, Chicha, Young, Nani, Kagawa, Valencia & Bebe , was that an over kill? That's 9 players there. I haven't even included Giggs in that as he played both in the middle and on the wings. So I'll say 9 & half...
Bench player? If Morata's injured and we need to fight back a result at home against a bus, who will you put, Martial or Lingard or Mata, all known for their amazing heading abilities? Oh, I see, you want to keep relying on Fellaini…
Forget it, I see you're one of those fans who see a 4-3-3 in everything.
I belive Martial can become 25 a season goalscorer when used right, We should rather focus the money on Griezman next summer than belotti.
In agood service even average strikers can score good amount of goals
In agood service even average strikers can score good amount of goals
Because everyone knows the best way to break those teams down is by lumping the ball into the box!
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