Andre Onana made another mistake. Ohnono.

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He's far from perfect but he's certainly not high on the priority list in terms of replacing.

Getting the attack sorted is all that matters. Our defensive record this year isn't particularly bad.
 
JoseM4 said:
I miss De Gea.
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The De Gea of his earlier years, I presume? Because Onana has been much better so far this season than any of De Gea's last five seasons here (18/19 onwards).

I am a bit worried Onana will lose his head and/or confidence after that mistake and we might see more coming up, but until that happens I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully he'll put it behind him and continue on like he has been.
 
I wonder if it’s any coincidence that he has a new goalkeeping coach?
 
I thnk this season he has been good, however, the issue remains that he is difficult to trust between the sticks. In my eyes the mistakes against Forest are a return to type rather than an abberation which is damning.
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
I thnk this season he has been good, however, the issue remains that he is difficult to trust between the sticks. In my eyes the mistakes against Forest are a return to type rather than an abberation which is damning.
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Even last season most of his mistakes only happened in the first few months. He improved as the season wore on and while he still did make a few too many mistakes for liking it wasn't particularly damning for someone in their first season (ignoring the first few months). It's just that his start was so bad that it coloured his entire season for a lot of people.

So for now the hope is that those first few months were the aberration. Since then he's shown a fairly steady and consistent improvement. First season he had a terrible start, decent in the middle and then fairly good towards the end, then very good this season up until this (hopefully) one-off bad match against Forest.
 
MadDogg said:
Even last season most of his mistakes only happened in the first few months. He improved as the season wore on and while he still did make a few too many mistakes for liking it wasn't particularly damning for someone in their first season (ignoring the first few months). It's just that his start was so bad that it coloured his entire season for a lot of people.

So for now the hope is that those first few months were the aberration. Since then he's shown a fairly steady and consistent improvement. First season he had a terrible start, decent in the middle and then fairly good towards the end, then very good this season up until this (hopefully) one-off bad match against Forest.
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Yes it's a glass half full vs half empty situation. Although I will note that the mistakes he made at the start of last season led to a very early Champions League exit, so I think it's understandable that many fans had their opinion effected by that even if his performances improved to an acceptable level.

I think with any other position on the pitch first season syndrome is a fair reason to give leeway, however, for the goalkeeper it doesn't apply so much with the obvious exception being De Gea as you could clearly see that he had yet to physically mature in terms of his size and strength, which is huge for a keeper in this league. In my opinion, Onana is an eccentric keeper, which you can see from his technique and ability with the ball, and this eccentricity and unorthodox goalkeeping technique comes at a price which is severe brainfarts.

Everytime I watch that Forest goal I get more confused as to how he managed to let it in. Anyone who remembers the period between Schmeichel and Van Der Sar remembers that we had keepers who, if they were kept busy, could pull off outstanding saves but if we were in a game where they were less busy, where the opposition sat back and were content to let us dominate the ball looking to take the 2 or 3 chances that came their way (very similar to the game against Forest) then those keepers were liable to cost you with mistakes because of poor concentration or whatever. I think Onana falls into that camp.

I hope to be proved wrong!
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
I guess last season didn’t happen.
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Plenty of goalkeepers had a shaky start at United. He made some high profile mistakes in the CL but was largely OK in the Premier League.

This season he's kicked on and been the best goalkeeper in the league. He made one mistake...the rest of the team are currently on about 15 each...Dalot, Martinez, Bruno...maybe 20 each
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Tell me which keeper makes so many high profile mistakes? You’re missing the point.
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Every single one, my man. You'll easily find clips of Neuer, Alisson and Ederson playing as if they're high.

The mistakes for the goals are somewhat understandable. He wasn't prepared for the deviation on one and there was a big miscommunication on the other.

It's the last minute freekick time wasting bs that was mind numbingly stupid.
 
Rossa said:
How the heck do you absolve blame due to a shot being mishit? He was aiming for the top corner, so I jumped there - how was I to know he was about to hit it in the middle of the goal? Strange argument.

He should save that 100/100 times - no deflection, no excuse.

That being said, one mistake does not define his season. Onana has been very good this season overall.
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You do know that anticipation is a big part of a keeper saving a shot or not, right? They need to read the body language of the attacker to make an educated guess to where the ball most probably would go. Nothing in MGW's shot indicates the ball going in the middle of the goal. If I can tell it, having nowhere near the football IQ of a professional player at such a top level, then most definitely Onana sees it as well. Had he been initially positioned a step to his left, then he probably would have made the save with his feet, but at least in my personal opinion, due to the nature of the shot which was produced in the end, he could do nothing and should not take such a big blame for it.

I agree with your last point 100%.
 
Perhaps as well a new back three system and manager instructions has unsettled them a bit, at least with Onana he's looked very settled until now. In that Forest game they all seemed flat footed and caught out concentrating on other things, particular Martinez and Onana, like they were expecting another player to pick up the far post and they both eventually get there. Two other goals just caught us out at the start of each half.

People will say nothing has changed as we saw that a lot with ETH but we had a high amount of control outside of those mishaps under Amorim while ETH it was mostly chaos. So I tend to side with some teething problems.
 
NLunited said:
Clear to see it suddenly changed direction.

He still had a poor game, but so did the rest of his defence.OK
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BulgarianDevil91 said:
You do know that anticipation is a big part of a keeper saving a shot or not, right? They need to read the body language of the attacker to make an educated guess to where the ball most probably would go. Nothing in MGW's shot indicates the ball going in the middle of the goal. If I can tell it, having nowhere near the football IQ of a professional player at such a top level, then most definitely Onana sees it as well. Had he been initially positioned a step to his left, then he probably would have made the save with his feet, but at least in my personal opinion, due to the nature of the shot which was produced in the end, he could do nothing and should not take such a big blame for it.

I agree with your last point 100%.
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There is no way you anticipate where a shot is going to go from 22 yards out, you could make yourself look a complete fool. MGW hits it slightly on the outside of his foot meaning the ball fades a bit from left to right. There is no deflection, no one blocking the view, and it's right in the middle of the goal. Unfortunately there are no excuses for Onana on this occasion.
 
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Cantonalegod said:
There is no way you anticipate where a shot is going to go from 22 yards out, you could make yourself look a complete fool. MGW hits it slightly on the outside of his foot meaning the ball fades a bit from left to right. There is no deflection, no one blocking the view, and it's right in the middle of the goal. Unfortunately there are no excuses for Onana on this occasion.
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Then how would GKs know where to position themselves if they do not anticipate what the attacker would be doing? They very much do so and it's an essential part of shot-saving. That's why when the attacker is at a tight angle they close the near post. That's why when Robben came in on his left foot GKs tried to close the far corner. That's why when defending a free-kick they take a few steps towards the part of the goal covered by the wall. Anticipation and preparation.
 
Cantonalegod said:
There is no way you anticipate where a shot is going to go from 22 yards out, you could make yourself look a complete fool. MGW hits it slightly on the outside of his foot meaning the ball fades a bit from left to right. There is no deflection, no one blocking the view, and it's right in the middle of the goal. Unfortunately there are no excuses for Onana on this occasion.
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It‘s more than a normal amount of direction change. There was strong wind and there could have been a bump in the turf, whatever. I‘m not seeing a slight change of direction, but a significant and sudden one.

Gkeepers totally anticipate shots, what are you talking about?
 
erikcred said:
Every single one, my man. You'll easily find clips of Neuer, Alisson and Ederson playing as if they're high.

The mistakes for the goals are somewhat understandable. He wasn't prepared for the deviation on one and there was a big miscommunication on the other.

It's the last minute freekick time wasting bs that was mind numbingly stupid.
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Its about the confidence in your goalkeeper. We have witnessed all great goalkeeper making mistakes but that has happened over the span of their entire careers. Onana has been here for a season and a half and has made so many mistakes (costing us cl progression). And then you see mistakes like last game and basic fundamental flaws in his goalkeeping in general. If I was a CB I would find it difficult to rely on him.
 
Lentwood said:
Plenty of goalkeepers had a shaky start at United. He made some high profile mistakes in the CL but was largely OK in the Premier League.

This season he's kicked on and been the best goalkeeper in the league. He made one mistake...the rest of the team are currently on about 15 each...Dalot, Martinez, Bruno...maybe 20 each
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I agree overall he has been good this season but he just doesn’t fill me with confidence. I’m just a fan so maybe this feeling isn’t important. But I won’t pretend that last season didn’t happen and I can’t shrug off the feeling that Onana has a mistake in him waiting to happen.

I hope he moves on from this quickly, something he has shown that he is capable of.
 
The Firestarter said:
So the fact that he improved dramatically from last season does not matter to you?
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ayushreddevil9 said:
I agree overall he has been good this season but he just doesn’t fill me with confidence. I’m just a fan so maybe this feeling isn’t important. But I won’t pretend that last season didn’t happen and I can’t shrug off the feeling that Onana has a mistake in him waiting to happen.

I hope he moves on from this quickly, something he has shown that he is capable of.
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BulgarianDevil91 said:
You do know that anticipation is a big part of a keeper saving a shot or not, right? They need to read the body language of the attacker to make an educated guess to where the ball most probably would go. Nothing in MGW's shot indicates the ball going in the middle of the goal. If I can tell it, having nowhere near the football IQ of a professional player at such a top level, then most definitely Onana sees it as well. Had he been initially positioned a step to his left, then he probably would have made the save with his feet, but at least in my personal opinion, due to the nature of the shot which was produced in the end, he could do nothing and should not take such a big blame for it.

I agree with your last point 100%.
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You can anticipate, but the only times you make a choice like that is on a penalty kick or one on ones, five yard shots etc. You never do that on a shot outside the box - and yes, I have played as a goalie. It's a huge mistake - no excuse at all. It is what it is.
 
Rossa said:
You can anticipate, but the only times you make a choice like that is on a penalty kick or one on ones, five yard shots etc. You never do that on a shot outside the box - and yes, I have played as a goalie. It's a huge mistake - no excuse at all. It is what it is.
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Was it in hockey then, because in football you do have to use anticipation in your favour. How are your examples any different from Onana's situation? The shot isn't a pea-roller, there is actual velocity in it. For any keeper to make any save, they have to anticipate where the ball is going and prepare. They can't just stand in the middle of the goal and react, that would mean every shot in the corner would be a certain goal. That's nonsense.
 
Never understand the rationale of having individual player threads in this forum when we literally have a dedicated forum for individuals.
 
BulgarianDevil91 said:
Then how would GKs know where to position themselves if they do not anticipate what the attacker would be doing? They very much do so and it's an essential part of shot-saving. That's why when the attacker is at a tight angle they close the near post. That's why when Robben came in on his left foot GKs tried to close the far corner. That's why when defending a free-kick they take a few steps towards the part of the goal covered by the wall. Anticipation and preparation.
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You don't anticipate what they going to do, you just position yourself to narrow the angle from whichever direction the shot is coming from. It's not a guessing game when the attacker is 22 yards out in a directly central position. You see the shot and react. Closing the angle down is not the same as anticipating what is going to happen, if you have kept goal you would know that. Anticipation can make you look very stupid indeed!
 
NLunited said:
It‘s more than a normal amount of direction change. There was strong wind and there could have been a bump in the turf, whatever. I‘m not seeing a slight change of direction, but a significant and sudden one.

Gkeepers totally anticipate shots, what are you talking about?
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You don't anticipate the direction of shots centrally from 22 yards, you can look very stupid, and he did.
 
Cantonalegod said:
You don't anticipate the direction of shots centrally from 22 yards, you can look very stupid, and he did.
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Of course you do. Anticipation, positioning - all basic GK skills and necessities.

Pogba once said something specific in regards to our fanbase and the more responses I get in this thread the truer his words ring in my ears.
 
BulgarianDevil91 said:
Of course you do. Anticipation, positioning - all basic GK skills and necessities.

Pogba once said something specific in regards to our fanbase and the more responses I get in this thread the truer his words ring in my ears.
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Well done, you anticipate the 22 yard shot is going to your right, and it goes to your left. Great goalkeeping.
You truly are an expert in the field.
As a previous poster said you can try to anticipate a penalty, or a close range shot, but not a shot from centrally 4 yards outside the box, behave.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Most Liverpool fans would name Allison as one of their top players, even in their best years. It's a weird argument.
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One of their top players. But not out and out their best player for entire seasons altogether. That's a pretty big difference there and if anything shows how lacking we are.
 
USREDEVIL said:
That last mistake wasn't that bad. The ball was knuckling on him. But he can be a bit of a titanic in switching sides.
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It's a horrendous mistake - about as bad as it gets in terms of shot stopping. The ball doesn't even move that much, and ends up going in pretty much dead center of the goal. That can never happen.
 
Cantonalegod said:
You don't anticipate the direction of shots centrally from 22 yards, you can look very stupid, and he did.
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Every gk does and deflections make gk look stupid all the time. Maybe he could have done better, I don‘t know I‘m not a gk trainer.

Considering he saved us so many times this season, jumping on this is piss poor supporting.
 
Mike Smalling said:
It's a horrendous mistake - about as bad as it gets in terms of shot stopping. The ball doesn't even move that much, and ends up going in pretty much dead center of the goal. That can never happen.
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It really wasnt horrendous, the ball was actually going to hit his leg and stay out but it curved off to to his left at the last 2nd.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
It really wasnt horrendous, the ball was actually going to hit his leg and stay out but it curved off to to his left at the last 2nd.
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It really was.. I cant believe anyone still try to defend that mistake.. it was as big as anyone he made last year.. What makes its even more stupid is that most in here will say he has been our best player this season.
 
I honestly can't believe people are defending letting that shot in. It was a dreadful error to make, and he did it in a game, where we were already kind of under pressure.

Every goalkeeper makes mistakes, and big ones too. Just look at some of the stuff Allison did, even in his prime. It's all about bouncing back and keeping the number of mistakes to as few as possible during a season. Onana can have one off-game and still have an excellent season overall. Let's hope that will be the story.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I honestly can't believe people are defending letting that shot in. It was a dreadful error to make, and he did it in a game, where we were already kind of under pressure.

Every goalkeeper makes mistakes, and big ones too. Just look at some of the stuff Allison did, even in his prime. It's all about bouncing back and keeping the number of mistakes to as few as possible during a season. Onana can have one off-game and still have an excellent season overall. Let's hope that will be the story.
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I hope so. We have ‚fans‘ here that massively overreact though, to the point where you think there is an agenda driven dislike.

I have analyzed that shot and concluded it changed direction enough to move over 3 feet or so, which is why I‘m cutting him some slack.

There must be a lot of gk experts in here.
 
AarhusUnited said:
It really was.. I cant believe anyone still try to defend that mistake.. it was as big as anyone he made last year.. What makes its even more stupid is that most in here will say he has been our best player this season.
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He has been our best player this season and one of the best goalkeepers in the league
 
NLunited said:
I hope so. We have ‚fans‘ here that massively overreact though, to the point where you think there is an agenda driven dislike.

I have analyzed that shot and concluded it changed direction enough to move over 3 feet or so, which is why I‘m cutting him some slack.

There must be a lot of gk experts in here.
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Personally it just gives me flashback to last season, where we saw a bunch of mistakes which were really coming from poor goalkeeping fundamentals. The same goes for this one. That's why I think it's quite reasonable to be concerned for the future.

In terms of the mistake, if you look it at from the angle behind the goal in slow motion, it really doesn't move that much. It starts maybe a foot to the right of the penalty spot, moves centrally no further than the spot, and then back 1-2 feet right again before it hits Onana. It shouldn't ever go in - simple as that.
 
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