[Bobski]

He had no chance of saving that goal yesterday. However with all the possesion we had and given the fluidity of that defence yesterday I thought he would have been involved a lot more in working the angles. Seems somewhat reluctant to come out and get involved.

Was there any real need? Utd had pretty much uncontested possession at the back against Palace, who were not pushing men forward to press.Amrabat probably needed to be braver with his positioning, push up higher rather than dropping to CB to take the ball, at that point maybe you can use Onana.

Generally speaking a keepers passing makes little difference when playing against a low block who don't have any intention to press. Against Arsenal and Bayern, 2 teams with ambition we have seen it show very promising signs.

 

[Mercurial]

We conceded 43 all year last year. And this includes the 7 from Liverpool and 6 from Man City. Without these two games, we conceded 30. Which is really good. Even 43 is good, only Newcastle and City conceded less.


This year we have already conceded 11. Do you think we will concede less than 43 by the end of the year?

Compare those to SoTA stat (high) and you see why Dave got the golden gloves.

 

[Marwood]

We conceded 43 all year last year. And this includes the 7 from Liverpool and 6 from Man City. Without these two games, we conceded 30. Which is really good. Even 43 is good, only Newcastle and City conceded less.


This year we have already conceded 11. Do you think we will concede less than 43 by the end of the year?

But what's your point here? That's it's down to the change in goalkeeper?

Not sure how you can put increased goals conceded down to any one particular thing this season.

 

[kafta]

He's conceded a ton of goals from worldies and cutbacks to unmarked players in the box. Most of the goals he conceded no goalkeeper saves. He did nothing wrong yesterday, and i dont think hes anywhere close to the top of our list of concerns.

 

[Andycoleno9]

The keeper who kept conceding silly goals and giving the ball away was not a main issue?

Yes we needed a top striker and we also needed a new keeper.

Keeper was far from priority for this year. In future yes but not this year. We barely use Onana's ball playing ability and on the other hand, his shot stopping is average.

And yeah, Dave saves that shot yesterday.

 

[Cassidy]

Keeper was far from priority for this year. In future yes but not this year. We barely use Onana's ball playing ability and on the other hand, his shot stopping is average.

And yeah, Dave saves that shot yesterday.

Just because Onana has not been great does not negate the fact we needed a new keeper.

 

[Mercurial]

Just because Onana has not been great does not negate the fact we needed a new keeper.

The issue was prematurely pushed, we should have offered DDG a shot term contract 2y and put the money into KMJ or the likes. Our recruitment is headless.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Just because Onana has not been great does not negate the fact we needed a new keeper.

As i said; i am not denying that we needed to upgrade Dave. But to have gk as Onana, whos shot stopping is an issue like it or not, first you need a team who will be excellent in possession. Then you add Onana on that as final touch.
With our general play being in a mess, it would have been much better that we kept Dave for a year and resolved other issues in a team. Dave, even in decline is levels above Onana in shot stopping. And it seems that we need that for this season more than we need ball playing gk.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The issue was prematurely pushed, we should have offered DDG a shot term contract 2y and put the money into KMJ or the likes. Our recruitment is headless.

Why hasn't anyone done that? Why nobody trusts him either as a long or short term solution? Our recruitment would have been doing a better job, if we had offered him a contract no club in Europe is willing to pay him? Like, seriously? Onana was one of the hottest names before we signed him. De Gea, on the other hand, is considering retirement at the age of 32. Here's a suggestion. Why don't we give Onana some time to settle?

 

[VP89]

The issue was prematurely pushed, we should have offered DDG a shot term contract 2y and put the money into KMJ or the likes. Our recruitment is headless.

I don't think it was premature at all. Ddg had huge errors in 3 pivotal games toward the final third of last season. Sevilla, West ham and the FA cup final. His position was certainly untenable.

 

[Cassidy]

The issue was prematurely pushed, we should have offered DDG a shot term contract 2y and put the money into KMJ or the likes. Our recruitment is headless.

Or we could have signed KMJ instead of Mount

 

[Cassidy]

As i said; i am not denying that we needed to upgrade Dave. But to have gk as Onana, whos shot stopping is an issue like it or not, first you need a team who will be excellent in possession. Then you add Onana on that as final touch.
With our general play being in a mess, it would have been much better that we kept Dave for a year and resolved other issues in a team. Dave, even in decline is levels above Onana in shot stopping. And it seems that we need that for this season more than we need ball playing gk.

Im not sure why you are arguing with me then if you believe we needed to upgrade on DDG which is what I said.

 

[Mercurial]

Why hasn't anyone done that? Why nobody trusts him either as a long or short term solution? Our recruitment would have been doing a better job, if we had offered him a contract no club in Europe is willing to pay him? Like, seriously? Onana was one of the hottest names before we signed him. De Gea, on the other hand, is considering retirement at the age of 32. Here's a suggestion. Why don't we give Onana some time to settle?

No denying we needed to move on from DDG, but still don't feel it was urgent, and that the issue was / is with other parts of the pitch before goalkeeping. Also I don't rate Onanas style of keeping together with our defensive he wont keep us solid like his predecessor did with our defensive, and by all accounts that defensive is even worse now. He can be as hot a commodity but he is not what we needed at this point, and thats quite evident. Same as a Højlund project and a duplicate of Bruno in Mount. Our recruitment is expensive and dislodged, and without thought.

 

[Mercurial]

Or we could have signed KMJ instead of Mount

Now that would be smart business.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Keeper was far from priority for this year. In future yes but not this year. We barely use Onana's ball playing ability and on the other hand, his shot stopping is average.

And yeah, Dave saves that shot yesterday.

You can't be serious.

Has de Gea managed to find a club yet? That tells you everything you need to know. Replacing Dave was one of our biggest priorities in the summer. Moving on and finding a more progressive GK will help us in the long term. We were going nowhere with a keeper that couldn't play out. I was a big fan of Dave's and even I could see that.

 

[Mercurial]

I don't think it was premature at all. Ddg had huge errors in 3 pivotal games toward the final third of last season. Sevilla, West ham and the FA cup final. His position was certainly untenable.

People should study the stats, we were a team that for many years relented way to many shots onto our goal, some years close to double the league winners, still due to consistently high save rate we stayed in UCL. People need to pay their respect to that fact. This forum will now realise & slowly reach the same conclusion Inter drew. Great with ball, not as much on saves, too many random points dropped to brain farts, not worth keeping, GA90 mediocre despite super solid defensive in front.

 

[ElDiabloRojo]

Average keeper tbh, he can kick and come outside the box but hasn't the basics of a good keeper. Just my opinion.

I don't watch any other teams anymore so don't know where he would rank amongst premier league keepers, would he start for many of the top 6 teams?

 

[Cassidy]

People should study the stats, we were a team that for many years relented way to many shots onto our goal, some years close to double the league winners, still due to consistently high save rate we stayed in UCL. People need to pay their respect to that fact. This forum will now realise & slowly reach the same conclusion Inter drew. Great with ball, not as much on saves, too many random points dropped to brain farts, not worth keeping, GA90 mediocre despite super solid defensive in front.

Not last season

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

No denying we needed to move on from DDG, but still don't feel it was urgent, and that the issue was / is with other parts of the pitch before goalkeeping. Also I don't rate Onanas style of keeping together with our defensive he wont keep us solid like his predecessor did with our defensive, and by all accounts that defensive is even worse now. He can be as hot a commodity but he is not what we needed at this point, and thats quite evident. Same as a Højlund project and a duplicate of Bruno in Mount. Our recruitment is expensive and dislodged, and without thought.

If he's the right profile for where we want to go, then it was the right thing to sign him. That is the whole point of going through a transitional period, take the hits now and invest in a better future. You blame our recruitment yet on this instant you'd like them to do exactly what they've been doing over the last decade, which is to offer a player a renewal nobody else will because we're too afraid of the short-term losses. I'll say it again, Ancelotti, who's known for adjusting the tactics to fit the personnel, vetoed the signing of De Gea even as a temporary solution. Still, here we are, discussing whether we would have been better off with a version of De Gea which, for the most part, is clearly romanticized by United fans and far away from reality.

 

[Mercurial]

If he's the right profile for where we want to go, then it was the right thing to sign him. That is the whole point of going through a transitional period, take the hits now and invest in a better future. You blame our recruitment yet on this instant you'd like them to do exactly what they've been doing over the last decade, which is to offer a player a renewal nobody else will because we're too afraid of the short-term losses. I'll say it again, Ancelotti, who's known for adjusting the tactics to fit the personnel, vetoed the signing of De Gea even as a temporary solution. Still, here we are, discussing whether we would have been better off with a version of De Gea which, for the most part, is clearly romanticized by United fans and far away from reality.

Sure if fans & club tolerate and let EtH stay long enough to have us play close to city and relent no more than them with shots on target, and great ball retension to get the best of him, then we would see a tune, until then it's going to be messy.

As for Madrid they rarely take someone >30y age, been like that for years.

 

[Cassidy]

Sure if fans & club tolerate and let EtH stay long enough to have us play close to city and relent no more than them with shots on target, and great ball retension to get the best of him, then we would see a tune, until then it's going to be messy.

As for Madrid they rarely take someone >30y age, been like that for years.

It should not really matter if ETH stays. Any manager we sign should be one that fits the profile too

 

[Mercurial]

It should not really matter if ETH stays. Any manager we sign should be one that fits the profile too

That would be great, but they don't grow on a tree. I think now that we took the plunge should let him stay the course no matter how poor this season bar relegation, we have pretty much blown top 4 soon enough with a few more losses and might as well use this season to rebuild under less pressure.

 

[Cassidy]

That would be great, but they don't grow on a tree. I think now that we took the plunge should let him stay the course, we have pretty much brown top 4 soon enough with a few more losses and might as well use this season to rebuild under less pressure.

Im not advocating for him to get sacked

 

[Mercurial]

Im not advocating for him to get sacked

Yep figured as much, but the way things are (not) going he will sit loose soon.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Was there any real need? Utd had pretty much uncontested possession at the back against Palace, who were not pushing men forward to press.Amrabat probably needed to be braver with his positioning, push up higher rather than dropping to CB to take the ball, at that point maybe you can use Onana.

Generally speaking a keepers passing makes little difference when playing against a low block who don't have any intention to press. Against Arsenal and Bayern, 2 teams with ambition we have seen it show very promising signs.

Of course it does. If he is coming higher and getting involved it should push people forward giving us more passing angles to move them about. Doesn’t help we are terrible at that aspect of the game but part of the point in buying Onana was to be able to do that.

 

[The_Midfielder]

Well he was needed if you want to play football the modern way.. it is not working ...however..
With Degea .. CP would have defended differently..kick the ball to Degea .. or goal kick.. pressure midfield .. leave one person free .. Wan bissaka and press ..
Degea would have either kicked it long expecting Hojlund to get it ..or we would have made a mistake passing from the back...

 

[tomaldinho1]

Are people really blaming him for the goal?

Also for our attacking issues apparently.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

DDG cost us cups and top 4?!

Where have you been? He most certainly did cost us cups and top 4s.

 

[Nickelodeon]

When he was signed, I expected us to play a much higher line since he’s courageous and comfortable on the ball. In theory, this should’ve allowed us to use him as an extra ball playing player and push faster attacks especially against low blocks. That’s what we saw in the initial pre season games as well. As the season has progressed, he’s barely doing any of these things. And if we aren’t using him for improvement to our build up play, then there was absolutely no reason to sign him for that price. Let’s hope we see more and better of him on the ball.

 

[Cassidy]

Where have you been? He most certainly did cost us cups and top 4s.

He most certainly did

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Where have you been? He most certainly did cost us cups and top 4s.

Bit far fetched don’t you think? It’s like saying Rashford or Bruno cost us cups or top 4 becuase they missed chances. The truth being they’ve probably scored goals they had no right to that kept us in competitions and DeGea has probably made saves he had no right to that probably kept us in competitions or challenging for top 4.

Swings and roundabouts.

 

[frostbite]

Football is simple, you need to score more and have the other team score less. If you "upgrade" the goalkeeper, you expect you will decrease the goals conceded. Otherwise, what is the "upgrade" about?

People talk about "playing from the back", "modern goalkeeper", "comfortable with the ball" ... and forget that these are just tools of the trade. These tools are used to help you minimize the goals you are conceding and maximize the goals you are scoring. Nobody would "play from the back" if they knew that this leads to conceding more goals, and scoring fewer goals!


Conclusion: Our "upgrade" did not work. At least, it did not work yet. Sure, it may work in the future, we all hope that, but RIGHT NOW, it does not seem like an "upgrade". Sure you can blame the injuries, the defence, the system, but this is just a different way to say that you hope it will work better in the future. For now, it is just a hope.

 

[sebsheep]

Football is simple, you need to score more and have the other team score less. If you "upgrade" the goalkeeper, you expect you will decrease the goals conceded. Otherwise, what is the "upgrade" about?

People talk about "playing from the back", "modern goalkeeper", "comfortable with the ball" ... and forget that these are just tools of the trade. These tools are used to help you minimize the goals you are conceding and maximize the goals you are scoring. Nobody would "play from the back" if they knew that this leads to conceding more goals, and scoring fewer goals!


Conclusion: Our "upgrade" did not work. At least, it did not work yet. Sure, it may work in the future, we all hope that, but RIGHT NOW, it does not seem like an "upgrade". Sure you can blame the injuries, the defence, the system, but this is just a different way to say that you hope it will work better in the future. For now, it is just a hope.

Hey, I think you missed the question you were asked.

How many did we concede in the first 7 games last season?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Keeper was far from priority for this year. In future yes but not this year. We barely use Onana's ball playing ability and on the other hand, his shot stopping is average.

And yeah, Dave saves that shot yesterday.

De Gea wouldn’t have saved that post 2018. Even then I doubt he would have with the deflection.

 

[Bobski]

Of course it does. If he is coming higher and getting involved it should push people forward giving us more passing angles to move them about. Doesn’t help we are terrible at that aspect of the game but part of the point in buying Onana was to be able to do that.

I will be interested to see how Amrabat plays when in a midfield role, He has done a lot of dropping to the deepest outfield player between the CB's in these 2 games. Does he take up similar positions when starting in midfield? If he does, then with Lisandro and Onana you could have a lot of composure on the ball deep, but potentially some role overlap in possession. Though Martinez should be a lot more comfortable pushing into wide areas with the ball than Lindelof.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Bit far fetched don’t you think? It’s like saying Rashford or Bruno cost us cups or top 4 becuase they missed chances. The truth being they’ve probably scored goals they had no right to that kept us in competitions and DeGea has probably made saves he had no right to that probably kept us in competitions or challenging for top 4.

Swings and roundabouts.

Rashford is one of our most reliable big game players. De Gea crumbled in crunch ties and important league games. It was a pattern since the World Cup 2018 all the way until his final game, FA Cup final in 2023.

 

[lex talionis]

What’s done is done and we have to live the decision that management has made. Regardless of who the manager has been post-SAF we make the same mistakes over and over, chasing the flavor of the month player and not addressing our actual priorities. Who knows what to expect for the remaining 32 PL matches but no one should be shocked if we drop top four is not even a realistic possibility by February and we be midtable at best in terms of goals conceded.

 

[Cantonalegod]

I was at the game on Saturday and initially though Onana should have saved the shot as it appeared to go straight over him.

Having now seen replays it clearly took a deflection making the save much more difficult, especially as it was struck with some power

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Rashford is one of our most reliable big game players. De Gea crumbled in crunch ties and important league games. It was a pattern since the World Cup 2018 all the way until his final game, FA Cup final in 2023.

Now you’re just speaking rubbish.

 

[Kostov]

Where have you been? He most certainly did cost us cups and top 4s.

Yes DDG mistakes cost a team that can't score more than 60 goals per season cups and top 4s. I guess Onana cost us the game against Bayern single handedly too?