Then I fail to see the wisdom in spending 50 million on a new keeper famed for his balling skills.
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Then I fail to see the wisdom in spending 50 million on a new keeper famed for his balling skills.
In theory, if we implement the system well, we should all things being equal else where. Due to the fact we would be able to keep the ball a lot better when defending a lead, something we could not do as well with De Gea who would give the ball away to the opposition by kick it long (or out of play, or direct to the opposition) when he felt under pressure
Over the course of the season we'll see how it plays out
Maybe you should not take some OPs seriously, especially when the game we literally played last week involved us intentionally playing out from the back and bypassing the Arsenal press on multiple occasions to the extent that Arsenal did not press aggressively and instead opted to block passing lanes into our forwards.
Especially also when Onana did not play advanced at Inter because they did not adopt a high line, and especially when playing advanced has nothing to do with dealing with the press.
I'm really troubled by our transfer business this summer, beginning with the obsession over Mount and Onana who are players we didn't need and represent no upgrade over the players who spots they would take. Mount may have some tools in his locker that Bruno doesn't have, but Bruno has those moments of magic that Mount will never have. As for Onana, whatever. Amrabat should have been signed flat out as not brought in on loan. Hojlund was injured so nothing could have been done differently about that. We should have flogged off Maguire and McTominay for the crumbs we were offered and brought in the CB who wanted to come to OT but instead, because we dithered, whose nickname is Monster.
We learn nothing, season after season.
There were posters on here claiming that any average Joe from the PL will improve our team massively, just because the stats and their genuine football knowledge said so. We've went and spent a fortune on a "modern" GK that the managers has worked previously. Now many on here discuss the new expensive GK's shot stopping ability? I mean is this club some parody central or is it being run by the same type of football hippies who seem to know more of the Ajax history then of their own club.
What has some random peoples opinions on the internet which are not even based on evidences facts got to do with the club and its decisions?
He badly needs a big performance ASAP,can't help thinking right now we should have gone for Costa who looks a superior stopper
Since many on here do discuss his shot stopping ability and rightfully it is in question. This random peoples happens to be the largest United forum on the internet and I think it's relevant because many United fans and football fans in general do think the same, Onana has been very very questionable to say the least.
It is not rightfully in question.
If you think he has been very very questionable that is your opinion. The stats do not backup your claim though
The stats say something like 30% success rate. I read somewhere that out of 10 shots at him, 7 went in or something like that.
And you didn’t bother checking this fake stat? He is in the league’s top 5 for saves made with 20 saves.
Ederson and Ramsdale have only made 5 saves each. They are bottom of this table, which is what you should expect from a serious top team.
You read some crap and Twitter and believed it without verifying the data or source.
He has faced 30 shots and we have conceded 10. Thats a 66% success rate.
We have also had an expected goals against of around 9.3 and have conceded 10 (where an on-goal does not count towards xG which means in terms of xG hes conceded 9)
Stats do not backup him being a poor shot stopper.
Of course I think he should be aiming to have higher success rate over the course of the season above 70% I would say. But his xG vs goals conceded is inline with the top keepers in the league.
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Yes it is noticeable. He doesn’t appear to have a reach or a spring when diving. It’s not a surprise though as we expected this. We didn’t and shouldn’t expect him to be as good at shot stopping as De Gea because he isn’t. Not many keepers are. The hope was that his strengths would benefit us more than his weaknesses would hinder us.
Unfortunately we’ve not been able to maximise his strengths much at all yet. That hasn’t been helped with the fact our defence has changed virtually every game with players changing positions too. No stability in the team certainly hasn’t helped our build up which is where Onana excels. We just have to hope we can work on maximising the best out of our strengths from all players.
He had a better save percentage than DDG last season.
He had a better xGC vs actual goals conceded than DDG last season.
DDG ranked below 10th in shot stopping stats in the PL last season
That’s all good and well if you’re comparing Apples for Apples.
Onana never played in the premier league last season, De Gea did. A GK will face higher quality opponents in the premier league than Serie A. You’re also just basing it on last season. De Gea was here 10 years not just one season. Despite his clean sheets, last season wasn’t his best season.
You really don’t need to use stats without context to conclude De Gea is and was a better shot stopper. We knew that before we signed Onana. We signed him because of his other qualities.
Champions league vs Europa?
I wonder which keeper faced better opposition?
Not to mention DDG vs other PL keepers clearly shows he was not a good shot stopper for the past 2 seasons
Your arguments are tiresome. I don’t have the desire to spend another 10 posts of you trying to argue a flawed point.
Premier league is 38 games btw. Significantly more than your small sample argument.
And again in the PL DDG ranks over the past 2 seasons statistically one of the worst shot stopper in the league. Yet you say “not many are” better shot stoppers than him.
Measurable statistics show this is clearly untrue
But as you said its clearly obvious he is better because “trust me bro” and because apparently in Seria A xG is measured differently than the PL
And you didn’t bother checking this fake stat? He is in the league’s top 5 for saves made with 20 saves.
Ederson and Ramsdale have only made 5 saves each. They are bottom of this table, which is what you should expect from a serious top team.
Well, they've got a blue tick and all..
How’s Onana’s shot stopping now he’s playing in the premier league? You love a little delusion out of context. I rarely agree with anything you post, I don’t expect this to be any different.
Stats say he has a 66% save rate. It could be better, he should be aiming for above 70% for the season
Stats also say from an xGC of 9.3 hes conceded 9 (own goals don’t towards xGC) again stats show his shot stopping has been inline with the top keepers in the league.
From the goals he conceeded this season I think he should do a-lot better with the 3rd goal against Brighton but have no real issues with the rest.
Maybe you want to check DDGs save percentage after 5 games last season and his xGC vs actual goals conceded? Pretty sure its worse than Onanas from this season.
Yes you don’t with what I post so what?
You are the one who is not backing up any of your claims with any objective measures.
By your logic Lacazette is a better finisher than Kane and Mbappe due to a better shot conversion right? Or do stats not count here? Your claim is flawed because as I’ve already explained.
He does not have better goals vs xG than Kane or Mbappe so no. Especially not over multiple seasons either.
Stats do count. Your claim here is flawed but carry on
With Onana you wanted to compare over just last season but now it’s multiple seasons with Lacazette
You are so tiresome it’s actually fascinating.You crack on with believing Onana is a better shot stopper than De Gea.
Based on last season Lacazette does not have better goals vs xG than either player.With Onana you wanted to compare over just last season but now it’s multiple seasons with Lacazette
You crack on with believing Onana is a better shot stopper than De Gea.
I said ESPECIALLY over multiple seaasons.
I also said DDG ranks OVER THE PAST 2 SEASONS as one of the worst shot stoppers in the PL
you crack on with believing not many keepers are better shot stoppers than DDG
Onana is vastly better than De Gea in terms of passing the ball to his fullbacks, but in terms of shot stopping Onana is not in De Gea's league. That said, it was time to move on from Dave but it's a shame we couldn't have a found top shot stopping keeper.
He is exposed with our leaky defensive efforts. So a leaky defence and a leaky keeper. And we have a midtable season to look forward to.
Don’t talk nonsense lads. We have a better shot stopper than De Gea now. Just ask @Cassidy
He is exposed with our leaky defensive efforts. So a leaky defence and a leaky keeper. And we have a midtable season to look forward to.
DDG ranked as a below average shot stopper in the PL last season.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/2022-2023/keepersadv/2022-2023-Premier-League-Stats
We will see at the end of the season where he ranks.
He was better than DDG over the previous season
DDG has not been a good shot stopper for a couple of years
Do not believe me though ask why no club signed a supposed top shot stopper on a free this summer (every objective shot stopping stat is why)
Chelsea fans: first time?
The irony! You posted “Mercurial’s post isn’t even agreeing with you, but you don’t have the comprehension to read what is being said” and then rapidly deleted it when you realised you couldn’t comprehend him stating “leaky keeper”.
That’s hilarious.
Busted. What a plonk!I did miss read that part. I can admit that though.The irony! You posted “Mercurial’s post isn’t even agreeing with you, but you don’t have the comprehension to read what is being said” and then quickly deleted it when you realised you couldn’t comprehend him stating “leaky keeper”.
That’s hilarious.
When proven wrong I can admit it and not stand on a position when all evidence shows I am wrong unlike some
So much for comprehension of what you're reading. Might be time to get some sleep mate. Stats are driving you loopy.
Ha not really. Reading and typing on the phone not idealSo much for comprehension of what you're reading. Might be time to get some sleep mate. Stats are driving you loopy.
Still at least Im not talking about a keeper who regularly lets shots squirm under them as a top shot stopper that not many keepers are better than
Probably where Ederson ended last season, but with 140 shots against?
These type of goalies only really work if you hold ball and limit SoTA (shot on target against).
He isn't a bad keeper. He is just diametrically opposites to what we had, and he is not in a team like City that limited SoTA, but in a struggling back line where literally all mechanics that make him good are absent. With double the SoTA vs Ederson. So in this trajectory were looking at about 65 goals against unless we automagically half our SoTA with the same defense as last year.
Ball retension is supposed to reduce the shot against parameter but were failing at it. Were making him get under pressure bad and he is making us drop points for it. 5 games in and he had close to half(!) of what Ederson faced an entire season (35 games in his case). It's a transfer that hinges on us be able to retain and hold the ball properly. Also a risk that when his poor reach is properly found and exploited things will look bad vs more than just elite strikers. Amateurs on forums can see it already, guessing team analysts are all over this weakness.
We got the right keeper in theory but he doesn't have the team fundamentals at place to help his weaknesses and strengths in order to shine judging early games.
I would expect our defence to improve over the season. Given our injuries and adaptation to a new setup.Probably where Ederson ended last season, but with 140 shots against?
These type of goalies only really work if you hold ball and limit SoTA (shot on target against).
He isn't a bad keeper. He is just diametrically opposites to what we had, and he is not in a team like City that limited SoTA, but in a struggling back line where literally all mechanics that make him good are absent. With double the SoTA vs Ederson. So in this trajectory were looking at about 65 goals against unless we automagically half our SoTA with the same defense as last year.
Ball retension is supposed to reduce the shot against parameter but were failing at it. Were making him get under pressure bad and he is making us drop points for it. 5 games in and he had close to half(!) of what Ederson faced an entire season (35 games in his case). It's a transfer that hinges on us be able to retain and hold the ball properly. Also a risk that when his poor reach is properly found and exploited things will look bad vs more than just elite strikers. Amateurs on forums can see it already, guessing team analysts are all over this weakness.
We got the right keeper in theory but he doesn't have the team fundamentals at place to help his weaknesses and strengths in order to shine judging early games.
Similar happened at the start of last season where we exposed DDG early in the season.
Also these types of goalies, he is not Ederson he is a better shot stopper than him. I don’t believe Onana is an elite shot stopper like an Allison however but I think he will improve on what we had last season.
Look at the advanced stats and check
PSxG+/- -- PSxG-GA
Post-Shot Expected Goals minus Goals Allowed
Positive numbers suggest better luck or an above average ability to stop shots
PSxG is expected goals based on how likely the goalkeeper is to save the shot
Note: Does not include own goals
xG totals include penalty kicks, but do not include penalty shootouts (unless otherwise noted).
Its a better stat to use that save percentage as it takes into account the quality of the shot
He was shielded behind a 3-4-x defense with hard working front 3, so a team that worked hard and played to all his strengths, we don't currently have that type of setup. They got rid and are somehow looking better with roughly same 3-4-× first 5 games with sommer.
He had a better save percentage than DDG.
Being behind a better defence does not alter pure shot stopping. It just stops you facing as many shots and shots with lower xG. He also played at Ajax under a completely different setup.
He also had good stats in the UCL with both Inter and Ajax.
Having said that we have a defensive injury crisis so I would expect things to settle down once players come back and the team is more settled.
I would also expect him as a player to settle down, hes only been at the club 5 minutes.
I'm not familiar with those stats, those are probably good as you say to gauge a player in sub detail. Standard stats w SoTA factor overall team effort, makes the goalies "workload" and defence's slack more transparent.
The way I see it, EtH need to whip this team into a frenzy, they are letting each other, us, coach and Onana down. I feel Onana is what he is and we're in a situation where team have to go both feet in and work harder to implement coaches vision. It's a do or die situation. All the rot is exposed this year at back & mid. With this keeper change we're basically all in and beyond point of no return. Gotta embrace it. Players not following through need to get with or leave.
EtH has certainly released the safeties this year (prematurely imho) but it's done.
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