[erikcred]

The ball had already been headed away so its an off the ball collision and freekicks and/or penalties arnt awarded for off the ball collisions.

Hands plum into face is not just a collision. But I guess this is where we've to agree to disagree.

 

[CoopersDream]

Yeah, looking at it again Onana should be glad he didn't see red there. Nasty punch, that.

 

[Red in STL]

The gymnastics to absolve Onana of any blame every time he makes another horlicks is something else. Surely if you go back far enough before casemiro's header you could find someone who should have done better to absolve Casemiro? You know if you were really, really desperate.

Casemiro made a deliberate choice to head it back to his keeper and failed miserably, he could have headed it in any direction he chose, what did or didn't happen before is irrelevant, given AWB's penchant for going to sleep if I was Onana I wouldn't be expecting him to make that header, ironically if he hadn't Onana would likely have swiped the ball away, Onana has to take some of the blame but most of it should b on Casemiro for pure stupidity

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Having watched the penalty decision back again I cant actually understand how its been given as a penalty, I mean AWB headed the ball clear before Onana made any contact with the attacker so how can you possibly give a penalty for it ?

Because you're not allowed clobber an opponent in the head with the ball nowhere near?

 

[Chinchy98]

He literally did today but ok.

What part of week in and week out can’t you comprehend

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What part of week in and week out can’t you comprehend

What the feck are you on about? I was addressing the strange timing of your claim that he rarely makes outstanding saves immediately after a game where he made one, arguably two.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Made a load of good saves.

Did something utterly stupid.

Andre Onana.

Crap chant.

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

Sometimes good, sometimes shit.

He very much reminds me of Tim Howard in the sense that he's he can find his feet in the PL eventually,
but hopefully it's not gonna be with us.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Because you're not allowed clobber an opponent in the head with the ball nowhere near?

The fact the ball had already been cleared at the point of contact is why it wasnt a penalty

 

[Member 76197]

The fact the ball had already been cleared at the point of contact is why it wasnt a penalty

Go dragon punch some player off the ball in the middle of a match and see how far your 'off the ball' protestations get you.

Or ask Zinedine Zidane.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Crap chant.

Just realised it should have been a haiku

Made a lot of saves
Did something really stupid
Andre Onana

 

[RedRocket9908]

Go dragon punch some player off the ball in the middle of a match and see how far your 'off the ball' protestations get you.

Or ask Zinedine Zidane.

If you take someone out off the ball you get carded but you dont conceed aef penalty or freekick, after Zidane got semt off for headbutting someone in the World Cup final for example the game did not restart with a freekick from where the headbutt occured.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If you take someone out off the ball you get carded but you dont conceed aef penalty or freekick, after Zidane got semt off for headbutting someone in the World Cup final for example the game did not restart with a freekick from where the headbutt occured.

Wolves had a goal disallowed and conceded a free kick from an off the ball incident literally a few days ago

 

[Matt Varnish]

The ball had already been headed away so its an off the ball collision and freekicks and/or penalties arnt awarded for off the ball collisions.

You really should know a little about the laws of the game before you watch it.
It stops you from looking like a cnut

1. Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• charges
• jumps at
• kicks or attempts to kick
• pushes
• strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
• tackles or challenges
• trips or attempts to trip

If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

• Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
• Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
• Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:

• a handball offence (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
• holds an opponent
• impedes an opponent with contact
• bites or spits at someone on the team lists or a match official
• throws an object at the ball, opponent or match official, or makes contact with the ball with a held object

As an ex referee, I' say he got off lightly with just a penalty against him

 

[Red in STL]

The fact the ball had already been cleared at the point of contact is why it wasnt a penalty

That's like saying a studs up challenge isn't a red card because the ball had been cleared 10 feet away

 

[LDUred]

Casemiro caused chaos there but Onana should still have well...not tried to decapitate the Burnley player.

The game summed up our season. Some nice moments, but no control of the game, and conceded a daft goal.

This has to be the end for ETH.

 

[Kostov]

He was actually having one of his best games until the penalty.

And we had the discussion about the Wolves one that he got away with, people on here were talking how they constantly happen, so do they?

 

[Litch]

I know right. I feel the same way about all these yellow and red cards flying about, why penalize a player if he tackles after the ball is gone. It's ridiculous.

I think the Wolves one that he got away with, and this then becomes a point of chance for this ref to resolve what some thought was a bad decision then....

 

[Matt Varnish]

He was actually having one of his best games until the penalty.

And we had the discussion about the Wolves one that he got away with, people on here were talking how they constantly happen, so do they?

The difference is not clear didn't VAR leave the decision to the onfield officials?

 

[Dominos]

I think the credit he's been getting in the 2nd half of the season is a bit generous to be honest because everyone is comparing his form now to his disastrous CL group stage campaign. Of course he's improved from the disaster start to the season but it would be difficult to be that bad all the way through the season. He cut down on the howlers for a while but that doesn't mean he's now good enough.

All in all, there's just been too many mistakes this season. I'd persist with him another year because I don't like writing a player off after only 1 season, and we have enough other areas to sort out.

And a top team shouldn't need to call on their goalkeeper as much as we do, hopefully he looks far better when he's less involved in the game.

 

[USREDEVIL]

He's great with the ball but his saves and general keeping are not good enough.

Yep. And this is exactly what one inter milan fan /poster said. Expect some great saves and some bad non saves. Not sure we can rely on him to take us where we want to go.

 

[Red in STL]

I think the credit he's been getting in the 2nd half of the season is a bit generous to be honest because everyone is comparing his form now to his disastrous CL group stage campaign. Of course he's improved from the disaster start to the season but it would be difficult to be that bad all the way through the season. He cut down on the howlers for a while but that doesn't mean he's now good enough.

All in all, there's just been too many mistakes this season. I'd persist with him another year because I don't like writing a player off after only 1 season, and we have enough other areas to sort out.

And a top team shouldn't need to call on their goalkeeper as much as we do, hopefully he looks far better when he's less involved in the game.

Any keeper will look better if less involved in the game!

 

[USREDEVIL]

Onana had a good game though. Awb did not help the situation

 

[LDUred]

I always felt that the Wolves one was a foul on AWB because the two players basically stopped him from jumping and there was definite interference. In any case, it just looked like a melee from a ball swung in and Onana kind of got the benefit of the doubt because there was another incident with AWB which happened first.

But yeah, this one was a stone cold penalty. Casemiro played a delicate back pass that he had to get absolutely perfect, and made a dog's dinner of it. Onana then panicked and took the guy out. Very clear cut, and so unfortunate because AWB had it covered.

 

[mu4c_20le]

All in all, there's just been too many mistakes this season. I'd persist with him another year because I don't like writing a player off after only 1 season, and we have enough other areas to sort out.

Mostly this. he's basically our Kepa, we'll persist until a suitable replacement comes along.

Any keeper will look better if less involved in the game!

Also this. I can see a loan back to Italy in two years.

 

[Krny]

The fact the ball had already been cleared at the point of contact is why it wasnt a penalty

It's a penalty wether the ball is cleared or not. Off the ball fouls are fouls



2 minute mark. Essentially the same foul, Reckless punch to a players head "off the ball". Same result penalty.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The fact the ball had already been cleared at the point of contact is why it wasnt a penalty

Wrong. A foul in the box is a penalty regardless of where the ball is.

 

[iKeano]

He was actually having one of his best games until the penalty.

And we had the discussion about the Wolves one that he got away with, people on here were talking how they constantly happen, so do they?

He didn't do anything wrong until he did something really wrong.

Two games on the bounce.

Jeffrey Dahmer didn't kill anyone until he killed someone. Then it did it loads of times.

Onana is capable of stopping some shots. So is Big Dave the 47 year old 23 stone beer hound that's stood between the posts for the Royal Oak XI for 30 years.

Neither should be Man Utd goalkeeper.

 

[dazjoe]

He's the Maguire of goalkeepers. Makes some standard saves any other keeper in the league makes and the football hipsters make out likes he's done something out of the ordinary and brilliant.
Like Maguire they've both been lauded as having had major revivals and performing so well, when the actual reality of it is that they've basically just been doing the bare minimum expected of them and haven't made a monumental feck up for a while.
He's another absolute joke of a signing from ETH

 

[Member 76197]

The thing is it's not just the howlers (which are obviously numerous) but so many of the goals he let's in are definitely saveable. This is a weekly basis now it's either a howler or one you're left thinking 'surely he could have saved that?'

Only in recent weeks we have the tame effort against chelsea he let's under him (many examples of this season and one his most glaring flaws for me), the deflection that looped up in the air but he still had lots of time to react to but instead just done nothing, the countless times he takes up poor positions and makes it easy for the striker, the numerous times he's tried to pre-empt a shot and is left looking silly and how many times is he left rooted the ground when a shot goes in?

The greatest trick he's pulled is somehow convincing so many United fans that this is the best you can expect from a United keeper. DDG was obviously poor last season and time to move him on but for me Onana has barely reached the level of DDG at his worst.

In before 'you would say that Dave lol! First time anyone made this zinger!'

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Mostly this. he's basically our Kepa, we'll persist until a suitable replacement comes along.


Also this. I can see a loan back to Italy in two years.

He’s already 10 times better than Kepa.

 

[Litch]

He is a goalkeeper. When they make mistakes, generally ends up in the net. Like every other keeper, he makes them and CL aside, think hes been general good.

Is he the best in the world, no. Will he be better in front of a steady back four, yes.

He has literally played behind players that most wanted sold, players that rarely have played and a kid.

He has faced more shots than probably any utd GK in their first season.

Whether he is good enough or not, there probably isnt a keeper in world thats gonna look good under those circumstances.

I think he deserves a degree of patience and not use him as a scapegoat for our emotions

 

[Rossa]

Does anyone know if x-whatever-for-goalies is accumumative? Watching all United games this year I find it bizarre that he is the second or third best keeper in the league, statistically. However, if the stats are accumulative it makes sense. Facing 20 0,20 shots makes for a 2,0 x-whatever - normally, you save all 0,2 shots. There was an analysis on how Lloris went from having a crap stats season when playing a high line, because the few shots often came one on one and thus were big. Next season with a low block he faced many more shots and his x-thing went drastically up.

Onana had one worldie yesterday, and another good save from the one on one. Up until the penalty he had a very good match. So that needs to count, but rarely does he make saves that any average goalie in the PL wouldn’t make.

 

[Litch]

The thing is it's not just the howlers (which are obviously numerous) but so many of the goals he let's in are definitely saveable. This is a weekly basis now it's either a howler or one you're left thinking 'surely he could have saved that?'

Only in recent weeks we have the tame effort against chelsea he let's under him (many examples of this season and one his most glaring flaws for me), the deflection that looped up in the air but he still had lots of time to react to but instead just done nothing, the countless times he takes up poor positions and makes it easy for the striker, the numerous times he's tried to pre-empt a shot and is left looking silly and how many times is he left rooted the ground when a shot goes in?

The greatest trick he's pulled is somehow convincing so many United fans that this is the best you can expect from a United keeper. DDG was obviously poor last season and time to move him on but for me Onana has barely reached the level of DDG at his worst.

In before 'you would say that Dave lol! First time anyone made this zinger!'

Its funny, could say the same about DDG at the start of his career and also at the end. As a GK myself, DDG was never my favourite. He was a one trick pony, shot stopping was elite and that was it. He was flawed in so many ways. You make it sound like DDG's shit doesnt smell?

Never came for crosses, one on one was dog shite, rarely save pens, never commanded his box, was quiet as a mouse, kicking was crap, never keeper sweep and the biggest issue, he was a pussy and a coward.

As good as his one trick was, Spain didnt think it was worth it and why even at his best, they didnt pick him. Why, cause they dominated the ball and when he was called on, his concentration levels were poor.

If you are comparing Onana to VDS, fine thats elite but lets not do that with DDG. Great servant to the club but so was John Oshea. That said, I would be too at 350k per week.

 

[Grande]

He is a goalkeeper. When they make mistakes, generally ends up in the net. Like every other keeper, he makes them and CL aside, think hes been general good.

Is he the best in the world, no. Will he be better in front of a steady back four, yes.

He has literally played behind players that most wanted sold, players that rarely have played and a kid.

He has faced more shots than probably any utd GK in their first season.

Whether he is good enough or not, there probably isnt a keeper in world thats gonna look good under those circumstances.

I think he deserves a degree of patience and not use him as a scapegoat for our emotions

He was my man of the match yesterday. Even after the pen. Some of the saves were outlandish. For the parts were we dominated, he was instrumental in our play out from the back allowing the CB’s to step really wide. He played a perfect match, and then he made one rash action forced by inexplicable team mate errors, with maximum unlucky consequence.

Casemiro made five mistakes at that level just in the second half. Garnacho started three of their most dangerous attacks and wasted four of ours. It’s like you say, when a keeper makes a mistake, it usually leads to a goal. I would still prefer losing two goals a season to rash actions like that, to the goal line goeal keeping David stood for in his latter years.

 

[Member 76197]

Its funny, could say the same about DDG at the start of his career and also at the end. As a GK myself, DDG was never my favourite. He was a one trick pony, shot stopping was elite and that was it. He was flawed in so many ways. You make it sound like DDG's shit doesnt smell?

Never came for crosses, one on one was dog shite, rarely save pens, never commanded his box, was quiet as a mouse, kicking was crap, never keeper sweep and the biggest issue, he was a pussy and a coward.

As good as his one trick was, Spain didnt think it was worth it and why even at his best, they didnt pick him. Why, cause they dominated the ball and when he was called on, his concentration levels were poor.

If you are comparing Onana to VDS, fine thats elite but lets not do that with DDG. Great servant to the club but so was John Oshea. That said, I would be too at 350k per week.

Yeah also a goalkeeper here but for some reason I've always favoured the goal-keeping type goalkeepers. Even way back to enjoying getting to see the likes of Nigel Martyn, Tim Flowers, Shay Given, Seaman etc their peak making great saves week in week out on match of the day. As I've said elsewhere in this thread I've always loved seeing an amazing save over an amazing goal.

The reason I've mentioned de gea because so many (you included obviously) seem to want to downplay what he was like to somehow defend Onana. Yeah DDG was shite the last couple of seasons, there is no argument there. DDG is the past now, if your main defence of Onana is to attack the worst of DDG then I think it says a lot about Onana's supposed qualities.

The start of his career here is incomparable really saying as he came here as a child in goalkeeping terms and even then you could see glimpses of his superhuman reflexes and shot stopping. Onana in comparison has shown lots of evidence of his shortcomings and given opposition plenty to laugh about too. You don't suddenly realise how to catch a ball in your late 20's or how to dive low and quick to get at low shots.

The fact is DDG was many times player of the season, golden glove winner, countless amazing saves. I really can't understand why you'd be so viscous in your criticism of a player who isn't even here anymore. I'll eat my phone if Onana achieves half of what DDG did here before he's inevitably shipped out in favour of a goalkeeper who isn't a calamity.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I was on the fence about Onana's signing. I felt De Gea's best days were behind him and was in favour of buying a more modern keeper better with the ball at his feet.

But from everything I'd seen of Onana over the years I did worry that he seemed too inconsistent / chaotic for me. I'd rather a keeper you don't notice too much because he mostly does the role in a quiet, competent way. Onana is the complete opposite - everything is quite dramatic / flamboyant with huge extremes of highs and lows.

He's like one of those centre backs who are always having to try to make dramatic last ditch tackles - some go right but others lead to pens / red cards / avoidable goals - and you can praise them for their bravery and commitment, or criticise the fact that it's because their poor pace / positioning gets them into trouble too often and means they have to make those high risk tackles that many others don't have to anywhere near as often because their better pace or positioning quietly deals with the situation.

I just think everything with Onana is too much of a scattergun approach that's always going to lead to plenty of avoidable mistakes. It's also going to have some good saves and distribution in it as well. And it's better having a keeper who comes off his line to cut out through balls a lot more than De Gea did. But there's also far too many flaws and basic mistakes in there.

When we're talking of which departments need upgrades and which are fine going forward, I'm surprised to see Onana often in with the likes of Mainoo and Garncacho as players to build our team around. For me, he's too gung-ho / error stricken for that and while we've got other areas to improve first, it's certainly still a position I think we need to upgrade again if we're to become a consistent team and challenging more for the league.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

I think the credit he's been getting in the 2nd half of the season is a bit generous to be honest because everyone is comparing his form now to his disastrous CL group stage campaign. Of course he's improved from the disaster start to the season but it would be difficult to be that bad all the way through the season. He cut down on the howlers for a while but that doesn't mean he's now good enough.

All in all, there's just been too many mistakes this season. I'd persist with him another year because I don't like writing a player off after only 1 season, and we have enough other areas to sort out.

And a top team shouldn't need to call on their goalkeeper as much as we do, hopefully he looks far better when he's less involved in the game.

Exactly, his form was that low that average play looks transformational.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Some people seem to love stats to back up their argument of how good he is.
So
We are 9th in the table for shots on target conceded, Liverpool (243), Man City (235), Arsenal (205), Brighton (190), Villa (182), Tottenham (180), Newcastle (180) and Chelsea (179) have conceded more shots on target, the difference is goals conceded, only Tottenham (49), Liverpool (36), Man City (32), Arsenal (26) and Everton! (48) have conceded less.
We are not even top for shots conceded as some would have you believe, Liverpool (715), Man City (611) and Arsenal (586) are all above us, so that blows the argument that he's behind a crap defence out of the water.
The simple fact is the top four are conceding more shots on target and in general, but they have a much better keeper between the posts capable of stopping them!

 

[Lyng]

Who ever called him the Bailly of goalkeepers was pretty spot on.