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2023-24 Performances


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5.6 Season Average Rating
Appearances
51
Clean sheets
13
Goals
0
Assists
0
Yellow cards
6
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So much to learn from the goalkeeping experts on the Caf :drool:

It's totally possible that a 27-year-old goalkeeper who has already played a UCL final after being a key player through the whole competition and has made millions as an elite professional playing for two of the biggest clubs in the history of the sport is terrible technically and the undisputably worst keeper to ever walk on the face of the Earth. Entirely fair criticism.

By this logic, we can't criticise ETH. Hell, we can't criticise England mainstay Harry Maguire.

Only positive statements should be permitted on the caf.
 
So much to learn from the goalkeeping experts on the Caf :drool:

It's totally possible that a 27-year-old goalkeeper who has already played a UCL final after being a key player through the whole competition and has made millions as an elite professional playing for two of the biggest clubs in the history of the sport is terrible technically and the undisputably worst keeper to ever walk on the face of the Earth. Entirely fair criticism.

brilliant post :lol: :lol:
 
By this logic, we can't criticise ETH. Hell, we can't criticise England mainstay Harry Maguire.

Only positive statements should be permitted on the caf.
No, criticism needs to be allowed, and is. Saying Onana or ETH are the worst ever or whatever is demonstrably utter nonsense though.
 
He made more mistakes in the last six months than De Gea in his entire career
Onana is suffering because of the quality of keeper we have gotten used to: de gea, VDS, Schmiechel. He wont ever get close to their peak levels at Utd.

Agree he doesnt help himself with his mistakes. Also he just looks like a keeper who as a striker you'd fancy your chances of beating.
 
Reminds me a lot of the Martial FC lot, the delusion is off the chart and it's largely fed because of how much shit people had been talking about De Gea. Must pretend his replacement is great it seems.
 
Reminds me a lot of the Martial FC lot, the delusion is off the chart and it's largely fed because of how much shit people had been talking about De Gea. Must pretend his replacement is great it seems.
Onana is joint top on 6 cleansheets with Pickford & Alison, whilst having a lot more saves. His save % is 76% this year vs DDGs 71% last year, and shot stopping is actually the supposed weakness he has vs DDG.

Before we even start talking about press resistance, it's interesting how you have thrown DDG into the mix and lazily assumed any supporter of Onana is a Martial FC equivalent.
 
So much to learn from the goalkeeping experts on the Caf :drool:

It's totally possible that a 27-year-old goalkeeper who has already played a UCL final after being a key player through the whole competition and has made millions as an elite professional playing for two of the biggest clubs in the history of the sport is terrible technically and the undisputably worst keeper to ever walk on the face of the Earth. Entirely fair criticism.
They played 10 man Porto, Benfica and Milan on route to the final. It’s totally possible that he’s a really average keeper and Inter can still win all those games. Much like playing in goal for a really dominant Ajax team, in a much weaker league, can mask some of the deficiencies he has.

We all have eyes and he’s been completely underwhelming in keeping the ball out of the net this season.
 
They played 10 man Porto, Benfica and Milan on route to the final. It’s totally possible that he’s a really average keeper and Inter can still win all those games. Much like playing in goal for a really dominant Ajax team, in a much weaker league, can mask some of the deficiencies he has.

We all have eyes and he’s been completely underwhelming in keeping the ball out of the net this season.
Yes, and I'm not saying he's been great for United so far. But there may be other, more nuanced reasons for that other than he being the biggest fraud to ever be in goal in the history of professional football.
 
He hasn't been good enough so far, but I can't help but like him. Seems like a great guy. Hopefully he can iron out the mistakes.
 
Reminds me a lot of the Martial FC lot, the delusion is off the chart and it's largely fed because of how much shit people had been talking about De Gea. Must pretend his replacement is great it seems.

That’s weird logic. Whether or not De Gea was shit last season (he was) is an opinion that can be held completely independently of whether or not Onana has been good enough this season (so far, he hasn’t)

I’m sure people who haven’t written him off completely are just doing the standard thing where a new signing is given more than half a season before forming a definitive opinion about whether he’ll ever be good enough for us. Which is entirely reasonable. Think of it as the “Patrice Evra clause”.
 
The first goal is a carbon copy we'd be crucifying De Gea for when he doesn't come and claim it. It's delivered a yard from his goal line and he's stood on the line watching it. Come and claim it or punch it away, one big step and he'd have been there. He's the worst keeper I've seen at the club in the last 30 years.
Peak Caf. :wenger: :lol:
 
He is what we've been told by at least one Inter Milan supporter - will make a great save, and then will concede a goal he shouldn't have. Good with his feet though.
Is that enough? Not for me. But i do like the guy's attitude.
 
He is what we've been told by at least one Inter Milan supporter - will make a great save, and then will concede a goal he shouldn't have. Good with his feet though.
Is that enough? Not for me. But i do like the guy's attitude.

The thing is that he's not young and is very experienced so it might be unrealistic for us to expect to improve much.

Maybe we can put some of his errors down to nerves and unsettled team.
 
The thing is that he's not young and is very experienced so it might be unrealistic for us to expect to improve much.

Maybe we can put some of his errors down to nerves and unsettled team.
I don't think he will improve either at his age. Whether the errors are as you said remains to be seen. I think it's just how he is unfortunately.
 
The first and second goals are the same problem. It's firstly the defenders job to clear it. They don't for either goal. But the keeper is in no man's land and doesn't follow the trajectory of the ball. The first it's more obvious because it's an inch away from him but the second where is he? He is just standing on the line waiting. Why doesn't he react? No one is being aggressive and attacking the ball. They are just stood there. Onana is basically non existent as a collecting keeper. He just stands on the line just like De Gea did but De Gea would pounce if it was near him. I don't think Onana had a clue where the ball was until it was on top of him.
 
The first and second goals are the same problem. It's firstly the defenders job to clear it. They don't for either goal. But the keeper is in no man's land and doesn't follow the trajectory of the ball. The first it's more obvious because it's an inch away from him but the second where is he? He is just standing on the line waiting. Why doesn't he react? No one is being aggressive and attacking the ball. They are just stood there. Onana is basically non existent as a collecting keeper. He just stands on the line just like De Gea did but De Gea would pounce if it was near him. I don't think Onana had a clue where the ball was until it was on top of him.

He deserves some criticism for the first goal. Criticising him for the second is just mental though.
 
His quality and composure on the ball is key to the build up phase, there were so many examples in the game last night. Including 2 or 3 lovely long pinged passes, he pretty much put Garnacho through for a chance he blasted wide of the far post. Aside from the first goal his overall game last night as part of the team was pretty good.

You're judging his passing and footwoork on how you perceive it to be directly involved in the goals, not on it's overall impact on the team. Which is wrong.

FALSEHOOD ALERT!

First, Onana's quality and composure was not particularly stellar last night. It wasn't poor, but several of his passes went into touch, but even putting those wayward passes aside we did not break Villa down with buildup play. In fact, we struggled to play out of the back -- which you will not see me blame on Onana -- and it was our poor buildup play out of the back that resulted in Villa punishing us in the first half. I'm sure there's one example this season of our buildup play leading to a goal but for the most part our buildup is not only poor, but is horrifying. Again, this is not Onana's fault. But let's not let the mythology creep in that Onana's admittedly excellent footwork has transformed us to a buildup play machine.

None of the three goals scored last night resulted from a first pass by Onana nor from buildup play of any kind.

Your argument, that a keeper with quality and composure should improve our buildup play -- and what's not to love about buildup play? -- should improve our control of the game and with improved control of the game we should, again in theory, increase our defensive and attacking productivity. Great theory indeed, but the reality last night is that we tried meticulous buildup play out of the back, led by the excellent feet of Onana, but Villa brutalized us our slow, ponderous LVG-esque play with near perfection and we found ourselves down 0-2 at HT with boos raining from the stand and every United supporter on the planet disgusted with what they had just witnessed.

That all changed in the second half. Out went the slow, ponderous and suicidal buildup play and in came high-intensity pressing which resulted in our first two goals, neither of which Onana had anything to do with in any way. The third goal came from a corner kick with Onana far in the rear view mirror, where he was properly positioned.

We just don't have the outfield players to dominate an opponent with the kind of buildup play your imagination has you believe we played last night that defeated Villa. That buildup play did exist (in coma, but it was there) in the first half, Villa murdered us for it, and out it went in the second half, when we murdered Villa and won the game. No manager on the planet worth his salt would have had us come out in the second half with the same tactics that nearly put the game out of reach for us in the first half. We had to ditch the first half that tactics failed us -- which I want to be clear I'm not blaming on Onana as there's only so much a keeper can do in the initial phase of buildup play -- and in the second half rely on the higher intensity pressing that pushed the game into Villa's half and secured glorious victory.

I'm quite sure every United supporter on the planet vastly prefers what they witnessed in the second half to what they witnessed in the first half -- you could call it night and day stuff. But if buildup play has someone become a god unto itself for some, de gustibus non disputandem est.
 
He made more mistakes in the last six months than De Gea in his entire career
Could probably find more from De Gea just last season.
De Gea was brilliant for us over the years but people really need to stop pretending he wasn't prone to making mistakes.
 
Some people have a very narrow view of football. They look only at goals scored and conceded, and see little value in the remaining 85 minutes of every game. This is why players that help build a platform for others to thrive upon are so often overlooked, since that's hard to show on a highlight reel.
And then there are people who think they understand football much deeper than they actually do. Onana so far has brought the team feck all bar the constant feck ups.
 
He deserves some criticism for the first goal. Criticising him for the second is just mental though.
It's a group thing. Several players are doing the wrong thing and he's one of them. When the analyse the game I'm pretty sure they don't just highlight Varane for the second goal. All players need to assess what they can do better. For me Onana doesn't help with his positioning, his lack of tracking for the ball and his inability to claim the ball
 
He hasn't been good enough so far, but I can't help but like him. Seems like a great guy. Hopefully he can iron out the mistakes.

My worry is that they're not "mistakes" per se. They're fundamental flaws in his goalkeeping technique which will continue to see him concede soft-looking goals. Not necessarily howlers, but those niggly goals where you feel a really top keeper would have saved that.

In a dominant, free scoring team, we could write it off as one of those quirks because we'd get away with it 9 times out of 10. In a team struggling for goals, these flaws get magnified.

I, too, like the chap and want him to succeed. I also like the fact that he's very comfortable with the ball at his feet and is quick off his line to sweep up, which I'm sure our central defenders appreciate.

But the soft goals conceded will continue, that is almost guaranteed.
 
That’s weird logic. Whether or not De Gea was shit last season (he was) is an opinion that can be held completely independently of whether or not Onana has been good enough this season (so far, he hasn’t)

I’m sure people who haven’t written him off completely are just doing the standard thing where a new signing is given more than half a season before forming a definitive opinion about whether he’ll ever be good enough for us. Which is entirely reasonable. Think of it as the “Patrice Evra clause”.

It's not logic just recognition that lots of the same folk who lauded Henderson as transformational and proclaimed De Gea a championship player are the same ones defiant of any Onana complaints.

Player judgment is rarely logical on here.
 
It's not logic just recognition that lots of the same folk who lauded Henderson as transformational and proclaimed De Gea a championship player are the same ones defiant of any Onana complaints.

Player judgment is rarely logical on here.

You may have a point. Although we’re also seeing the converse, with the posters who buried their heads in the sand about DDG’s failings suddenly becoming hyper critical of any and all goalkeeping errors.
 
The thing is that he's not young and is very experienced so it might be unrealistic for us to expect to improve much.

Maybe we can put some of his errors down to nerves and unsettled team.
I mean, it happens, our own Van Der Sar was a late bloomer.
 
FALSEHOOD ALERT!

First, Onana's quality and composure was not particularly stellar last night. It wasn't poor, but several of his passes went into touch, but even putting those wayward passes aside we did not break Villa down with buildup play. In fact, we struggled to play out of the back -- which you will not see me blame on Onana -- and it was our poor buildup play out of the back that resulted in Villa punishing us in the first half. I'm sure there's one example this season of our buildup play leading to a goal but for the most part our buildup is not only poor, but is horrifying. Again, this is not Onana's fault. But let's not let the mythology creep in that Onana's admittedly excellent footwork has transformed us to a buildup play machine.

None of the three goals scored last night resulted from a first pass by Onana nor from buildup play of any kind.

Your argument, that a keeper with quality and composure should improve our buildup play -- and what's not to love about buildup play? -- should improve our control of the game and with improved control of the game we should, again in theory, increase our defensive and attacking productivity. Great theory indeed, but the reality last night is that we tried meticulous buildup play out of the back, led by the excellent feet of Onana, but Villa brutalized us our slow, ponderous LVG-esque play with near perfection and we found ourselves down 0-2 at HT with boos raining from the stand and every United supporter on the planet disgusted with what they had just witnessed.

That all changed in the second half. Out went the slow, ponderous and suicidal buildup play and in came high-intensity pressing which resulted in our first two goals, neither of which Onana had anything to do with in any way. The third goal came from a corner kick with Onana far in the rear view mirror, where he was properly positioned.

We just don't have the outfield players to dominate an opponent with the kind of buildup play your imagination has you believe we played last night that defeated Villa. That buildup play did exist (in coma, but it was there) in the first half, Villa murdered us for it, and out it went in the second half, when we murdered Villa and won the game. No manager on the planet worth his salt would have had us come out in the second half with the same tactics that nearly put the game out of reach for us in the first half. We had to ditch the first half that tactics failed us -- which I want to be clear I'm not blaming on Onana as there's only so much a keeper can do in the initial phase of buildup play -- and in the second half rely on the higher intensity pressing that pushed the game into Villa's half and secured glorious victory.

I'm quite sure every United supporter on the planet vastly prefers what they witnessed in the second half to what they witnessed in the first half -- you could call it night and day stuff. But if buildup play has someone become a god unto itself for some, de gustibus non disputandem est.

It's not just my theory, it's a theory that has been around football for a long time now, if it weren't an effective way to utilise the keeper every keeper would still be kicking aimless balls 70 yards down the pitch everytome they got it.

What you say about pressing high again is another aspect of the game where the position and role of the keeper is crucial in this being effective and maintaining distances from back to front. Villa pressed high and Martinez was out and cleared 3 or 4 balls that came over the top, that's his role in that team. Onana was pushed up behind his defensive line in a position to do the same if Villa managed to evade the counter press and get a ball behind Utd's defence. They didn't because the Utd press didn't allow it to happen. This press isn't as effective if your keeper is standing in his box with huge gap between defence and midfield, Utd defensive line was playing on the halfway line for a good chunk of the game. It wasn't just the second half either, all through the first half Utd pressed Villa with 5/6 players commited to the high press.

And once again nobody said he had any direct involvement in the goals, again you are just making that up. You really need to let that go.
 
just making stuff up now to make it look worse?

blaming him for either goal yesterday is micro analysing, he probable could of came for the 1st one but it was a very good deliver.

He is an £80m keeper, he cost £43m and at least another £37m for his Champions League performances:wenger:
 
I like him. I like that we have a keeper who is calm in possession. Yes, he's made mistakes but I think he will find a level of consistency and be an important player for the Ratcliffe era.
 
just making stuff up now to make it look worse?

blaming him for either goal yesterday is micro analysing, he probable could of came for the 1st one but it was a very good deliver.

It was 60! Sorry

He probably should come for the first? He absolutely should. Its a mistake. A top GK claims that. I dont think anybody could disagree with that
 
The first goal is a carbon copy we'd be crucifying De Gea for when he doesn't come and claim it. It's delivered a yard from his goal line and he's stood on the line watching it. Come and claim it or punch it away, one big step and he'd have been there. He's the worst keeper I've seen at the club in the last 30 years.
iu
 
It's not just my theory, it's a theory that has been around football for a long time now, if it weren't an effective way to utilise the keeper every keeper would still be kicking aimless balls 70 yards down the pitch everytome they got it.

What you say about pressing high again is another aspect of the game where the position and role of the keeper is crucial in this being effective and maintaining distances from back to front. Villa pressed high and Martinez was out and cleared 3 or 4 balls that came over the top, that's his role in that team. Onana was pushed up behind his defensive line in a position to do the same if Villa managed to evade the counter press and get a ball behind Utd's defence. They didn't because the Utd press didn't allow it to happen. This press isn't as effective if your keeper is standing in his box with huge gap between defence and midfield, Utd defensive line was playing on the halfway line for a good chunk of the game. It wasn't just the second half either, all through the first half Utd pressed Villa with 5/6 players commited to the high press.

And once again nobody said he had any direct involvement in the goals, again you are just making that up. You really need to let that go.

Sorry, but yet another swing and a miss. Apart from his shambolic nonreaction on the first goal, Onana had a decent game, but his footwork had exactly zero to do with our ability to break Villa diwn in the second half. But if the argument is that Onana’s footwork had everything to do with our performance in the first half I would ask you take a fresh look at the score at halftime. And beyond going down 0-2 in the first half, the score actually didn’t even reflect his badly we were outplayed. We passed the ball back to Onana, who passed it to his fullbacks — all good, that’s the idea — who then passed it side to side and often back to Onana who then passed it back to a fullback. There was no progression. Our laborious passing invited Villa to squeeze us, which they did and our play suffered. It is no exaggeration to observe that our play was horrifying and that Villa’s two nil lead was fully deserved.

Our horror play on the ball was not Onana’s fault, but the style of play required to capitalize on Onana’s outstanding footwork does not suit at all and we see that time and again this season, a round peg being forced into a square joke with predictable results. Only when our play was more incisive and when we squeezed Villa up the pitch did we completely overturn the horror show of the first half when we relied on the slow buildup play that somehow has become a god into itself among some here.
 
He needs to be benched. He already cost us Champions League exit, can't throw the season away to just keep supporting him. Club is bigger than any one player
 
I'm sure I, and a lot if others, would be very interested on your insights into the high profile perceived (many of which are actual) errors that Onana has made this season, especially in the Champions League.

It would be great to get a more professional view on his general ability, qualities, or lack thereof.

Alright feels like a good time to follow-up on your ask here. The short version is that I don’t think he played the first goal well and I’ll expand on why. The second goal he’s played fine and so I won’t expand on that.

In-swinging set pieces from the wide areas were one of my biggest weaknesses personally so I watched a lot of tape. Three things I’ll call out here:

1. Although Onana could have done better (I’ll get to why I think this shorty), the delivery was good. Not perfect, but good. He got solid pace on it, put a lot of shape on it, high enough to beat the first man, and kept it inside the far post. The noticeable shortcoming of the delivery was that it wasn’t particularly flat. Therefore, it was above head height for players at the near post. But it was a good delivery.

2. When an in-swinging FK delivery is good across those dimensions, the keeper must make choices. I’ll oversimplify here to the options we all know - come for the cross (claim/punch), cover the players, or cover the cross (far post). You can’t do all three obviously - you must pick. Again, that is a slight oversimplification but it applies well here because of the distance between the attacking players and the back post. Each option is prone to looking bad if you choose wrong. But, there are right/wrong choices that are situational based on your reading of the players and the ball’s flight.

3. In this particular situation, Onana chose the middle option - to position himself for a reflex save if an attacking player got a touch on the cross. Even though no player touched it, his read was certainly correct that an attacking player could get a touch and so I understand why he did not shift further toward his back-post to cover the cross. However, I personally think he should have attempted to come and claim/punch at the front post. Again, the reason I think this is because of the ball’s height at the front post. If the ball is over the heads of the attackers at the front post, that usually presents an opportunity to claim - in this case, about 5 yards out. Flatter crosses pose a trickier front-post claim because the glancing header just ahead of you is on, which is usually when you hear commentators announcing the keeper reaching ’nowhere near’ or ‘grasping thin air’ etc.

One other point- something that’s rarely expanded upon is the impact of player density. If a winger cuts back and delivers an identical in-swinging cross during open play, that is a far easier ball to claim than from a set piece. During a set piece, the density of players in a concentrated area of the 6-yard box poses a very different proposition for a keeper coming off the line - but we often view these situations identically if the delivery looks the same. I’d rather come and claim in open play in almost every situation. I say all of that to share that, in this situation (this FK position + delivery), if no defender gets a head to the ball then any choice Onana makes poses a risk.

So that’s my take - I think he played it wrong and that the best choice here was to attempt to claim near post.
 
Could have reacted better to 1st goal but made 2 brilliant saves in the 2nd half if memory serves me right. They had a good chance after we scored the 2nd I think which he saved.
 
Could have reacted better to 1st goal but made 2 brilliant saves in the 2nd half if memory serves me right. They had a good chance after we scored the 2nd I think which he saved.

They were saves he should make but the first one from Bailey was in the 'very good save' bracket. The kind of save he hasn't always made this season so it's something!
 
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