[ayushreddevil9]

Why doesn't he close down the angle?

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Is there anyone that watched him regularly at Inter that can shed some light on why he doesn’t seem like the keeper he was there. Is it the type of attackers being different to what he was facing in Italy, different defence and team setup, or is he just being found out by being in a better league. I remember the praise Pep was giving him after he played City. He can’t just actually be shite and he’s not been tested enough for that to be shown.

None of the above. Perception can often create different expectations.

His league performances for Inter ranged from decent to good. He was mostly useful at the aspects of the game United still don't seem to care much about. Often times, Onana was the one to create the numerical advantage in their build-up and play the pass to the wing-backs to beat the press.

When they lost form and found themselves on the ropes and drifting away from the top, he wasn't able to stem the tide on his own. If the whole team fails, he'll go down with the rest of his teammates. I won't argue that he shouldn't be doing better, but you will struggle to find modern keepers who won't struggle when being under the cosh and the whole tactical setup isn't working well. Perhaps, Alisson last season was the exception, but even he couldn't be the difference maker (some of) our fans imagine a keeper should be (especially when Klopp never opted for a lower defensive line).

That's why i said perception matters. When our fans think of "proper" goalkeeper performances, the go-to example is De Gea's best seasons (12/13, 14/15, 17/18), which were exquisite from a shot-stopping angle and probably better, on an individual level, than anything that Onana will ever produce.

But the fact remains, besides his obvious decline, that his style forces his team to set up defensively in a way that is not favourable nowadays and that - no matter how much you laugh at it - the game has changed significantly for both keepers and defenders. It's essential that they are good with their feet and able to make good decisions on the ball because the midfield is a battlefield.

For what it's worth, except for Alisson (who's probably the best GK in the world), you'll GK who would pass the eye-test this season at United. Let's not forget that he's also new in the country and that he joined from a rather dominant side which has the best squad in Serie A. We'll see.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Yeah but surely that's just being pedantic for thesake of it. He was caught on his heels a little, sure, but it would have increased the chances of a save by maybe 2-3%. The main problem was the non-tackles by about 5 players before kane played that pass. Onanas part is a miscalculation at worst.

Nah I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting better from our players, even if they're not directly at fault.

I look at that situation and think "What would Alisson do?" ... And it's definitely not whatever Onana was doing.

 

[Bole Top]

Let's not forget that he's also new in the country and that he joined from a rather dominant side which has the best squad in Serie A.

think you mixed the seasons. when he was there, Inter were between fourth and sixth place the whole april and only managed to took the third place by 2 points in their last 2 or 3 games. Inter is dominating Serie A this season, but he certainly didn't experience any of that.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

think you mixed the seasons. when he was there, Inter were between fourth and sixth place the whole april and only managed to took the third place by 2 points in their last 2 or 3 games. Inter is dominating Serie A this season, but he certainly didn't experience any of that.

No, they have the best squad in Serie A for quite some time now. They were the best team in the land when Conte was there (won the title in 20/21) and they had good options in almost every position on the pitch. When Inzaghi finished 2nd in 21/22, there were even discussions about his future at the club. Last season, Napoli didn't allow a title race, but Inter were being criticized all the time and their CL campaign prevented things from escalating. This season, he has to win the league.

 

[Garethw]

I just saw a Talksport interview with a lad who was at the game.

He said that Onana was out with the midfielders practicing passing in the pre match warm up and at the same time Heaton was practicing shot stopping like a goalkeeper should.

 

[CoopersDream]

I just saw a Talksport interview with a lad who was at the game.

He said that Onana was out with the midfielders practicing passing in the pre match warm up and at the same time Heaton was practicing shot stopping like a goalkeeper should.

Well, you know, the closer you get to the game the better it is to practice the thing you are good at.

 

[Garethw]

Well, you know, the closer you get to the game the better it is to practice the thing you are good at.

Surely it’s better for a goalkeeper to be warming themselves up by jumping left and right to make saves rather than passing practice with midfielders?

 

[Oranges038]

I just saw a Talksport interview with a lad who was at the game.

He said that Onana was out with the midfielders practicing passing in the pre match warm up and at the same time Heaton was practicing shot stopping like a goalkeeper should.

Most goalkeepers will do that and also do a keeper warm up. Be very stupid if he didn't do any keeper work at all before a game.

 

[CoopersDream]

Surely it’s better for a goalkeeper to be warming themselves up by jumping left and right to make saves rather than passing practice with midfielders?

Yes, indeed, that would be preferable.

 

[Utd heap]

I'm not sure his warm up is his main issue TBH.

 

[miked99]

He seems so far away from being a competent goalkeeper that it's hard to see how he'll turn it around. Howlers are one thing, you'd like to think he'll stop making them at some point, but his whole shot stopping technique is so weird. He seems to scuff saves, or pat them down, or knock the ball straight back into a dangerous area. They rarely seem to be 'clean' saves, if that makes sense. And he seems to dive so slowly. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see this guy being a success, ever.

One thing I really don't like that maybe isn't mentioned often is the way he almost 'taunts' opposition players in possession. When he's in possession and there's an obvious pass on. It's like he waits on purpose to get closed down before making the pass, like he's challenging the opposition player to try and get it. Then he makes the pass at the last minute, the same simple pass he could've made a couple of seconds earlier. It's not cost us yet, but you just know it's going to sooner or later.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[The Gatekeeper]

People on here talking about the technical aspects of goalkeeping as if they have any idea about the technical aspects of goalkeeping. It's hilarious.

 

[Nas-JR]

Watch the games instead of depending on stats.

I do mate. I also watched him in the Cl final where he put in a better performance than any that de gea has put together in the last 3 years.

I'd rather wait until the set up suits his game before dismissing him. All to their own I guess.

Nah I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting better from our players, even if they're not directly at fault.

I look at that situation and think "What would Alisson do?" ... And it's definitely not whatever Onana was doing.

True. Although, Alisson is basically the best keeper around though... Depressing.

 

[el3mel]

I do mate. I also watched him in the Cl final where he put in a better performance than any that de gea has put together in the last 3 years.

I'd rather wait until the set up suits his game before dismissing him. All to their own I guess.

True. Although, Alisson is basically the best keeper around though... Depressing.

I totally and completely don't care about what he had done before Man United. That's for himself. I care about what I have seen of him at United and what I have seen isn't good enough. Should we keep Sancho because of what he had done at BvB?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Because the agenda amongst a portion of fans is so obvious it needs saying. But you exaggerating things also does nobody any favours either as he's clearly not hopeless.

Agenda? By saying that we downgraded Dave? Where is agenda in that?
Lets put stats aside and give me straight answer ; do you think that we would be still in CL with De Gea on the goal? Do you think that we would have more or less points in PL with Dave?

 

[Oranges038]

People on here talking about the technical aspects of goalkeeping as if they have any idea about the technical aspects of goalkeeping. It's hilarious.

I'm nowhere near qualified to judge, but I have done some keeper coaching courses and help out with a training session every week with an experienced qualified keeper coach.

For the last couple of days, I've looked at the goals conceded, there's lot of compilations doing the rounds.

For me the big part of his game that just looks wrong are his positioning, his feet and his footwork. How he positions and sets himself to react and how he shifts his feet across the goal. Too often he's kind of on his heels, plants his feet and then tries to dive, on other occasions he almost pushes off the wrong side. He takes a little step one way and then tries to dive the other way and pushes off his right foot going left and his left foot going to his right.

Edit: you might also notice his stance seems to be too wide, his feet are too far apart.

According to an article in theatheltic it was actually regarded during his time at Ajax and they wanted to change it. But they decided against it, because it somehow worked for him, the problem is when his timing is off he will look like a clown.

The answer to that question is one that Ajax’s sporting science and analytics department tried to solve while Onana was at Ajax. Initially, they looked at his technique when it came to diving, realised it was unorthodox and wanted to change it, but Onana was adamant that he could get to the ball quicker using his technique.

Rather than standing more upright and with his legs roughly shoulder width apart, Onana’s base was slightly wider than normal, both with his feet and his arms. The wider base gave him more power and stability when attacking the ball and, when reaction time was limited, he was able to dig his feet into the ground and shoot his hands down to the ball to make the save. The technique in itself requires precise timing and a great amount of strength to execute correctly.

It's those fractions of a second that are the difference between getting to a shot and looking like you're diving after the ball has gone past you. It's actually quite noticeable when you just watch compilations of the goals he's conceded. If he could sort his feet out, he wouldn't look so laboured when diving for shots.

https://theathletic.com/4940987/2023/10/10/onana-andre-man-utd/

 

[RedDevil@84]

People on here talking about the technical aspects of goalkeeping as if they have any idea about the technical aspects of goalkeeping. It's hilarious.

Wait till you see that wretched thing called democracy where you see a bunch of noobs who have never run a govt, elect people in.

 

[Nas-JR]

I totally and completely don't care about what he had done before Man United. That's for himself. I care about what I have seen of him at United and what I have seen isn't good enough. Should we keep Sancho because of what he had done at BvB?

Well the big difference is Sancho has been here for over 2 years and has shown nothing to warrant us believing he can turn it around. He also has shown he neither has the discipline nor the temperament to work on himself, no doubt due to the obscene wages he gets.

I understand your general point. Fans like yourself have lost faith in him already and he only has himself to blame. I have a higher threshold for writing him off evidently, mainly because he's not been here long and I've seen glimpses of how his ball skills could transform us in time. Also because I think whether we like it or not, we can't afford getting someone else in unless it's a massive punt.

Let's wait and see what happens.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Agenda? By saying that we downgraded Dave? Where is agenda in that?
Lets put stats aside and give me straight answer ; do you think that we would be still in CL with De Gea on the goal? Do you think that we would have more or less points in PL with Dave?

Honestly my answer to both is no. De Gea was error prone too and cost us constantly in Europe and big games just as often as Onana. At the same time we would be even worse playing out from the back with him back. As another poster said, by pretty much every metric as Onana has still been better than the Dave of the past couple seasons. As I’ve said in other posts though, we could do better than both.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Honestly my answer to both is no.

So De gea would've made the same mistakes through several games in our group.

 

[Revan]

I'm nowhere near qualified to judge, but I have done some keeper coaching courses and help out with a training session every week with an experienced qualified keeper coach.

For the last couple of days, I've looked at the goals conceded, there's lot of compilations doing the rounds.

For me the big part of his game that just looks wrong are his positioning, his feet and his footwork. How he positions and sets himself to react and how he shifts his feet across the goal. Too often he's kind of on his heels, plants his feet and then tries to dive, on other occasions he almost pushes off the wrong side. He takes a little step one way and then tries to dive the other way and pushes off his right foot going left and his left foot going to his right.

Edit: you might also notice his stance seems to be too wide, his feet are too far apart.

According to an article in theatheltic it was actually regarded during his time at Ajax and they wanted to change it. But they decided against it, because it somehow worked for him, the problem is when his timing is off he will look like a clown.




It's those fractions of a second that are the difference between getting to a shot and looking like you're diving after the ball has gone past you. It's actually quite noticeable when you just watch compilations of the goals he's conceded. If he could sort his feet out, he wouldn't look so laboured when diving for shots.

https://theathletic.com/4940987/2023/10/10/onana-andre-man-utd/

This is absolutely shocking. There are easily 5 goals there which could be considered mistakes, and another 6-7 of 'he should have done better'.

I think with an average EPL keeper we concede 3-5 fewer goals, and with a good one, probably 10+ fewer goals.

 

[arnie_ni]

Nobody says Dave would save it, but it’s damn sure you would be the first to criticise him if he did something like this for instance.

He absolutely would have and that's the point I made to him earlier. He's not being genuine in his remarks about onana when you compare them to his analysis of every goal ddg let in. Jl

 

[Oranges038]

This is absolutely shocking. There are easily 5 goals there which could be considered mistakes, and another 6-7 of 'he should have done better'.

I think with an average EPL keeper we concede 3-5 fewer goals, and with a good one, probably 10+ fewer goals.

Yeah, I watched most of the games and all, I think I've mentioned it before in here about his feet, but I never really looked at a lot of the goals in great detail. Just with all the clips going round, I just decided to look more closely at him.

I think that is fair to say, there's quite a few like Brentford, Brighton, Galatasaray that are soft goals to concede. In most of those incidences his timing, footwork and stance is letting him down badly and he's slow to react because of it. It's why he appears to just miss the ball or even dive after it's gone in. It's a bit like Bazunu at Southampton last season.

As a keeper if your timing is off and your feet are a mess, your pretty much fecked, especially at the top level.

 

[Andycoleno9]

His goalkeeping technique sometimes looks as if field player is on goal. It is one thing to have specific style but this guy doesn't do basic stuff right. Stuff which gks are learning when they are kids; saving shots with one hand, rushing out in one on one situations, using one feet to jump for a save, etc....

 

[Oranges038]

His goalkeeping technique sometimes looks as if field player is on goal. It is one thing to have specific style but this guy doesn't do basic stuff right. Stuff which gks are learning when they are kids; saving shots with one hand, rushing out in one on one situations, using one feet to jump for a save, etc....

Maybe, he just doesn't look like he has natural goalkeeper instincts. Like I posted above, to me it looks like his timing, stance and his footwork is letting him down. If you can't shift your feet quick enough you're can't react quick enough. You're talking fractions of a second really.

It's something that can be worked on, but it's more than likely something that is not going to go fully away at this stage.

 

[Chinchy98]

But they think Dave would have saved it, that's really what it's all about.

It's a 1v1, 8 yards out, he got sold a little dummy fell for it. A keeper is not saving that 95 times out of 100, the other 5 he gets lucky and it's blasted right at him.

No one has said that Dave would save it. Literally no one. Why do you insist on telling porkies?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

So De gea would've made the same mistakes through several games in our group.

Yes most likely as he made constant mistakes for about 3 seasons costing us massive games along the way.

 

[Remember the geese]

So De gea would've made the same mistakes through several games in our group.

He wouldn't have saved the pen at home to Copenhagen that's for sure!

 

[VP89]

So De gea would've made the same mistakes through several games in our group.

DDG was definitely capable of cluster fecks. Whether it's the Europa game last year where we were dumped out, or the West Ham game away or the FA Cup final.

 

[Freak]

Was he really good at Inter or are their fans just bullshiting us? Because every time I watch him play he just looks like he can't even do the basics for a goalkeeper.

 

[Rake]

Was he really good at Inter or are their fans just bullshiting us? Because every time I watch him play he just looks like he can't even do the basics for a goalkeeper.

Well, his CL stats certainly boost the overalls.

In 24 games this season has has already conceded 3 goals more than he did in 41 games for Inter. Also, we are allowing ~1.3 shots per game more than Inter. Assuming we continue to allow chances at the same rate, in his 30th game for United he would have faced the same amount of shots as in whole last year. For example, in the league he has higher save % than he did in Serie A.

From the research I did last season , I'd say he was better in terms of blunders but not shot stopping ability. He faced less chances, Inter were better suited to actually winning a first ball and retaining possession. His handling of the ball was an obvious weakness but combine that with the mistakes and you get current Onana.

For all the talk that he is quite the character, I actually think he isn't taking well the pressure of playing for United. Always looks like someone talking in his head instead of letting his experience and instincts take over.

 

[McGrathsipan]

This fella needs to be sold on in the summer.

Genuinely the worst keeper I've seen playing for United.
Its scary how bad he is.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Well, his CL stats certainly boost the overalls.

In 24 games this season has has already conceded 3 goals more than he did in 41 games for Inter. Also, we are allowing ~1.3 shots per game more than Inter. Assuming we continue to allow chances at the same rate, in his 30th game for United he would have faced the same amount of shots as in whole last year. For example, in the league he has higher save % than he did in Serie A.

From the research I did last season , I'd say he was better in terms of blunders but not shot stopping ability. He faced less chances, Inter were better suited to actually winning a first ball and retaining possession. His handling of the ball was an obvious weakness but combine that with the mistakes and you get current Onana.

For all the talk that he is quite the character, I actually think he isn't taking well the pressure of playing for United. Always looks like someone talking in his head instead of letting his experience and instincts take over.

That’s been our whole team the majority of the season

 

[Annihilate Now!]

This fella needs to be sold on in the summer.

Genuinely the worst keeper I've seen playing for United.
Its scary how bad he is.

How much could we even get for him if things continue in this fashion and we did? £20m? 15m?!

 

[Matt Varnish]

Yes most likely as he made constant mistakes for about 3 seasons costing us massive games along the way.

Can I borrow your crystal ball for next weeks lottery numbers?

 

[McGrathsipan]

How much could we even get for him if things continue in this fashion and we did? £20m? 15m?!

probably not anywhere near as much as the fee he was signed for - but he will cost the much much much more if he is left in the team over time.
He is the reason for the last place finish in the CL group. How much did that cost?

https://www.goal.com/en/news/champions-league-2022-23-prize-money/blt3f505106c0012af3

According to goal.com a club gets 2.8mill per group win and .93 mill for a draw. He has cost a fortune in the group never mind that not getting to the next stage part.

In the long term he's a financial clusterfeck so get rid of him as soon as possible

 

[Gordon Godot]

Was he really good at Inter or are their fans just bullshiting us? Because every time I watch him play he just looks like he can't even do the basics for a goalkeeper.

Have many people said he was that good at Inter? Probably suited the style of play in Italy. He was available on a free last summer...

 

[Pirlo'sBeard]

He's shite.

 

[Oranges038]

Have many people said he was that good at Inter? Probably suited the style of play in Italy. He was available on a free last summer...

He wasn't, he had already agreed to go to Inter.

Well, his CL stats certainly boost the overalls.

In 24 games this season has has already conceded 3 goals more than he did in 41 games for Inter. Also, we are allowing ~1.3 shots per game more than Inter. Assuming we continue to allow chances at the same rate, in his 30th game for United he would have faced the same amount of shots as in whole last year. For example, in the league he has higher save % than he did in Serie A.

From the research I did last season , I'd say he was better in terms of blunders but not shot stopping ability. He faced less chances, Inter were better suited to actually winning a first ball and retaining possession. His handling of the ball was an obvious weakness but combine that with the mistakes and you get current Onana.

For all the talk that he is quite the character, I actually think he isn't taking well the pressure of playing for United. Always looks like someone talking in his head instead of letting his experience and instincts take over.

I don't think he has such natural goalkeeper instincts, not the kind you would see from someone like Allison, Pope or even Pickford.

So if he's feeling the pressure and doesn't have confidence in his own ability, his concentration will be off because he's not focused on the game. Maybe he's focusing too much on not making a mistake, he's probably over thinking every little move he makes, with that his decision making is going to be off, that leads to errors in positioning, his footwork and the timing of his reflexes.