Anderson on his way out?

gza the genius said:
I agree with most of your post, but I just feel at the worst bringing in another midfielder should be at the expense of Giggs/Scholes/Park. If Cleverley and Anderson stay fit then they will play, if not then we will have someone capable of taking over their responsibilities who isn't 37/38. I think this season would be the perfect time to slowly phase them out, rather than rely on them this year and then completely get rid next. You said yourself that when Giggs/Scholes leave we'll need to bring someone else in anyway so why not just do it now?
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I don't think it's viable to do it now because of squad numbers and the fact we have already given Scholes and Giggs contracts. Scholes has already said that he retired because he didn't want to play 1 in 3. Say we sign someone to play alongside Carrick in 40+ games, where does Scholes fit in let alone a fit Cleverley or Anderson?
 
That's one of the reasons I think we need cover for carrick. That way if the other guys stay fit they can fight it out for the other spot and we can see how they do. If they don't stay fit then provided the new guy isn't a sicknote as well then he can come in alongside carrick. As I've said I think getting another physically able and defensively competent player with carrick in the middle will solve most our issues there and allow carrick to have more influence on the attack as well where he clearly has the ability to do so.
 
1 in 3 is basically all Scholes is able to play anymore anyway, I highly doubt he is going in to this season thinking he will be starting in a majority of our games.

As far as fitting in Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson, and a new cm; well there are bound to be injuries at some point no matter what and we play enough games between all the competitions we are in and Sir Alex rotates the squad enough that I think there will be plenty of game time for all 4 of those players, 5 if you include Scholes. Five center mids isn't really that high of a number when you consider they are competing for two, possibly three spots.

The squad numbers are a good point, I don't really have any idea how we stand on the 25 man rule or any of that.
 
Pexbo said:
You want us to compare Cleverley when he is 27? You don't think it means anything that Ferguson had Anderson in as an 18 year old and Cleverley on loan in the Championship at Watford? If you think that was down to our investment in Anderson then why should he be given less time to develop than Cleverley just because he has a transfer fee to "live up to"? It's fine for Cleverley to be a late developer but not Anderson? That's bollocks.

As far as I am concerned one is just 24, one is nearly 23 and they both show a lot of promise despite both having appalling injury record and should be given time to develop. For the record, Cleverley has missed more games for his relative teams than Anderson has in the last 5 years with 3 major injuries which cut 2 of his loans short.

It's also worth noting that a large section of Barcelona fans and media wanted Xavi out when he was in his early 20's because they felt he wasnt up to it and they wanted a midfielder in to replace him. I'm not saying Anderson has the same potential, I'm simply saying that sometimes a little patience goes a long way.
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Firstly, no, I dont want to compare Anderson with Cleverly now or in 5 years.
I was simply saying that in 5 years , the same amount of time this mercurial Anderson has had around the first team, you can fairly make a judgement on how both have done at the club, regardless of age.
5 years is 5 years, and in fact Anderson should be so well developed at this stage but he's still not much better than when he arrived....5 long years later.

Fair enough sometimes patience is a virtue but as I said before, how long do we wait, how much more time should be invested in something that may never work?
At some stage you just have to stop flogging the dead horse dont you?

One more season...is that enough? Or do we wait another 5 seasons?

And stop bringing Cleverly into it, He is a different subject.
 
In regards to Scholes playing 1 in 3, I think, with no major injuries he will be playing 25-30 of the 38 Premiership Fixtures. Basically 1 a week depending on what Champions League fixtures come up and if he is chosen for them instead. So around 35-40 in total, maybe 25 to 30 full games and 10 as sub or subbed appearances. In a 55 to 60 game season that's a lot more than 1 in 3. We will have to wait and see though, I'm going off the fact he played 90% of the games since January, only really being rested for the Europa League.


If Anderson and Cleverley manage to stay fit though he could see less game time, hence why there isn't room for another midfielder this season IMO. As I've also said, add Jones to the equation and Kagawa or occasionally Powell at the peak of a 3 man midfield, dropping deep and offering themselves for possession play and to counteract the pressing we struggled against last season.

I still think Kagawa has the tools to drop deeper again and play in a two with Carrick against the poorer teams with two had working strikers in Rooney and Welbeck and with Young and Valencia on the wings.

McGrathsipan said:
Firstly, no, I dont want to compare Anderson with Cleverly now or in 5 years.
I was simply saying that in 5 years , the same amount of time this mercurial Anderson has had around the first team, you can fairly make a judgement on how both have done at the club, regardless of age.
5 years is 5 years, and in fact Anderson should be so well developed at this stage but he's still not much better than when he arrived....5 long years later.

Fair enough sometimes patience is a virtue but as I said before, how long do we wait, how much more time should be invested in something that may never work?
At some stage you just have to stop flogging the dead horse dont you?
One more season...is that enough? Or do we wait another 5 seasons?

And stop bringing Cleverly into it, He is a different subject.
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So Anderson has to be assessed from the age of 19 to 24 and Cleverley gets the privalidge of being assessed from 22 to 27? You don't see how that is ridiculous?

Cleverley isn't a different subject at all. People just over complicate things. They are both footballers just a year apart in age who have shit injury records, they are perfectly comparable.
 
Pexbo said:
In regards to Scholes playing 1 in 3, I think, with no major injuries he will be playing 25-30 of the 38 Premiership Fixtures. Basically 1 a week depending on what Champions League fixtures come up and if he is chosen for them instead. So around 35-40 in total, maybe 25 to 30 full games and 10 as sub or subbed appearances. In a 55 to 60 game season that's a lot more than 1 in 3. We will have to wait and see though, I'm going off the fact he played 90% of the games since January, only really being rested for the Europa League.


If Anderson and Cleverley manage to stay fit though he could see less game time, hence why there isn't room for another midfielder this season IMO. As I've also said, add Jones to the equation and Kagawa or occasionally Powell at the peak of a 3 man midfield, dropping deep and offering themselves for possession play and to counteract the pressing we struggled against last season.

I still think Kagawa has the tools to drop deeper again and play in a two with Carrick against the poorer teams with two had working strikers in Rooney and Welbeck and with Young and Valencia on the wings.



So Anderson has to be assessed from the age of 19 to 24 and Cleverley gets the privalidge of being assessed from 22 to 27? You don't see how that is ridiculous?

Cleverley isn't a different subject at all. People just over complicate things. They are both footballers just a year apart in age who have shit injury records, they are perfectly comparable.
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Bang on
 
londonredmaniac said:
Scholes not a midfield star? Are you on crack????
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That's why I asked 'star' in the sense of a big money player, mememe celeb status, attention seeker etc or 'star' in the fact that he's a pivotal placeholder in a squad.

Scholes is about as humble as a footballer gets. A star in terms of ability but nowhere near a star by todays 30m pound twitter bollixing mememe type of a player.

Varun_Utd said:
Struggling to see what you mean here if am honest. My point is, if Ando goes to loan to Portugal and has a great season, establishing himself there and becoming a star player, however you define it, would he then want to come back and fight for his place again? i dont think so.
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Fair enough, I was just getting at it would take a move to a much bigger club to brand him or any other player a 'star' in the sense that I think you're talking about. If he has a great season and comes back with confidence and Fergie wants to put him back in as a starter then it is a positive. But I do understand what you mean now I just looked at it in a different way. If he does well on a loan move he may have found his threshold as a player.

I still think he has more to offer United.

McGrathsipan said:
I seriously doubt the managers of any of the top clubs in Europe would be interested in him, even for free. In fact id put serious money on it, other than city just to annoy us.
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Absolute bell-end comment.
 
ghaliboy said:
That's why I asked 'star' in the sense of a big money player, mememe celeb status, attention seeker etc or 'star' in the fact that he's a pivotal placeholder in a squad.

Scholes is about as humble as a footballer gets. A star in terms of ability but nowhere near a star by todays 30m pound twitter bollixing mememe type of a player.



Fair enough, I was just getting at it would take a move to a much bigger club to brand him or any other player a 'star' in the sense that I think you're talking about. If he has a great season and comes back with confidence and Fergie wants to put him back in as a starter then it is a positive. But I do understand what you mean now I just looked at it in a different way. If he does well on a loan move he may have found his threshold as a player.

I still think he has more to offer United.



Absolute bell-end comment.
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You think any of Europe's big clubs would be interested in Anderson now?

No chance right now - back in 2007 maybe.

I think we should give him another year simply as no one is going to pay a half reasonable fee for him after all the injuries and inconsistencies.
 
Pexbo said:
In regards to Scholes playing 1 in 3, I think, with no major injuries he will be playing 25-30 of the 38 Premiership Fixtures. Basically 1 a week depending on what Champions League fixtures come up and if he is chosen for them instead. So around 35-40 in total, maybe 25 to 30 full games and 10 as sub or subbed appearances. In a 55 to 60 game season that's a lot more than 1 in 3. We will have to wait and see though, I'm going off the fact he played 90% of the games since January, only really being rested for the Europa League.
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What a load of utter shit. He retired aged 36 because he couldn't even play a game a week for us anymore and his form was really poor, had six full months off, came back and then played one game a week, sometimes every two weeks because of internationals and the fact that we weren't in Europe or any cup competitions, apart from Europa which he didn't really play in at all.

He's in the exact same situation he was when he was 36, and now he's 38, and you think he can play 30 full games in the season, mostly in a midfield 2 probably, with a few cameos here and there? It just shows how deluded you are about our midfield.
 
Cina said:
What a load of utter shit. He retired aged 36 because he couldn't even play a game a week for us anymore and his form was really poor, had six full months off, came back and then played one game a week, sometimes every two weeks because of internationals and the fact that we weren't in Europe or any cup competitions, apart from Europa which he didn't really play in at all.

He's in the exact same situation he was when he was 36, and now he's 38, and you think he can play 30 full games in the season, mostly in a midfield 2 probably, with a few cameos here and there? It just shows how deluded you are about our midfield.
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The same Scholes that came back in January to play 17 Premier League games, 21 in total in the space of 4 months.

There's no way after 3 months off he could manage 25-30 games plus a handful of sub apperances over the course of a 10 month season? That's 3 to 3.5 games a month.

Do you ever actually think? He's perfectly capable of that.
 
Pexbo said:
The same Scholes that came back in January to play 17 Premier League games, 21 in total in the space of 4 months.

There's no way after 3 months off he could manage 25-30 games plus a handful of sub apperances over the course of a 10 month season? That's 3 to 3.5 games a month.

Do you ever actually think? He's perfectly capable of that.
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How did he get on in his last full season Pexbo? Did he play well throughout?

As I recall, he started well and got progressively worse and worse, looked knackered, and hence retired. Why then, 2 years older, do you think he can go play 30 games a season without the same, or worse happening again?

Do you think having a six month break and playing a single game a week, sometimes every two weeks, is the same as having a full pre-season and 10 months including Europe?
 
Our dependence on Scholes will be further exposes when we go further in Europe this year. It'd be madness to suddenly think he's become young again.
 
Asking him to play a full game less than every other game with a few 30/45 minute cameos along the way is hardly "being dependant on him" and I don't expect him to be in a midfield 2 all that often for what it's worth. I think it will be:


Kagawa

Carrick - Scholes*



*Anderson/Cleverley/Jones/Giggs depending on fitness and opposition.
 
I'm not that bothered if Anderson leaves if get a small sum for him. He hasn't performed close to what was expected to him at the time and he's simply injured too much.
 
Snow said:
I'm not that bothered if Anderson leaves if get a small sum for him. He hasn't performed close to what was expected to him at the time and he's simply injured too much.
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Agreed. Get as much as we can and good riddance.
 
To say he's been a flop is an over statement, a flop doesn't get 145 appearances for a club like us.

He's been decent with flashes of excellence, I think we'd be foolish to get rid of him, honestly.
 
Yep. If he's good enough, he'll force himself into the first team, regardless of who we have or who we might sign.
 
I agree, but selling him would be a bad desicion, especially if we sell Park, We still don't know what's going on with Fletcher, Scholes will go at the end of the season, as well as Giggs, and Cleverely is too enexperienced.

Even with Mouthino if he comes

Carrick
Mouthino
Anderson
Fletcher
Cleverely

That's a good midfield selection, be silly to get rid of him, we know what he can do.
 
So Anderson has to be assessed from the age of 19 to 24 and Cleverley gets the privalidge of being assessed from 22 to 27? You don't see how that is ridiculous? Cleverley isn't a different subject at all. People just over complicate things. They are both footballers just a year apart in age who have shit injury records said:
whats the difference?
How many footballers were 1st teamers when they were 19?

Ill say it again, just for you Pexbo.

I dont care what age Anderson is. He has had 5 years around the 1st team and hasnt developed much. Its very simple.
Its not that hard to understand.

Are you saying if fully fit he should be first team pick now?

How many more years do we have to wait? And dont start banging on about cleverly again...answer the question.
I have heard enough of you telling us we cant compare Cleverly with Anderson. Im not comapring the 2 players.

My point is that Anderson isnt good enough and whether Cleverly is getting better or worse ratings is irrelevant.

and just to clear up, Id not be bothered if he was sold and replaced.
But to state the obvious, selling him and not replacing him is not the best Idea, as jake felt the need to point out.
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So glad you lot are just internet mouthpieces and you don't run this club. You'd think we were short of money with all this 'get rid' talk... Unless we get a decent offer I'd keep him on for another year (I would say 'why not?' but I don't want to feed the stupidity)...

Its as if we are talking about Kleberson here...
 
To be fair to Anderson, he was great at the start of the season & he was starting to chip in with the odd goal too. When he's on song he's easily good enough to start for us, the problem is that he has had a lot of injuries, for whatever reason, which has stopped him getting a good run in the side.

I think he's good enough, if only he could give us a full season.
 
More and more I genuinely think a loan would be best for ando. Scholes and giggs are here for the season no matter what so that's two spots. Clev wil and should stay as we need to see his impact on a more regular basis. Carrick is obviously first choice and without fletcher being released he'll be around until we see what happens with his recovery. I personally don't think we can go in to the season without adding a midfielder who is defensively good but at the same time without selling anyone in the middle, if we did we'd be stupidly overstocked.

But if we sent ando on loan then hopefully if he stays fit he'll get regular football which will only help him. Then at the end of the season with scholes and potentially giggs going we'd be left with 5 players in the middle and whatever youngsters which is a good number. If he can't stay fit or doesn't show any progress and can't get games then nct summer we can pretty much say he's had his time.
 
Ash_G said:
More and more I genuinely think a loan would be best for ando. Scholes and giggs are here for the season no matter what so that's two spots. Clev wil and should stay as we need to see his impact on a more regular basis. Carrick is obviously first choice and without fletcher being released he'll be around until we see what happens with his recovery. I personally don't think we can go in to the season without adding a midfielder who is defensively good but at the same time without selling anyone in the middle, if we did we'd be stupidly overstocked.

But if we sent ando on loan then hopefully if he stays fit he'll get regular football which will only help him. Then at the end of the season with scholes and potentially giggs going we'd be left with 5 players in the middle and whatever youngsters which is a good number. If he can't stay fit or doesn't show any progress and can't get games then nct summer we can pretty much say he's had his time.
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Loan are you mad?
 
2Bullish said:
Loan are you mad?
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Well we need a midfielder but given that we typically play a variant off 442, if we were to get another midfielder in we'd have 7 players not to mention jones and Powell competing for 2 spots and in reality given that carricks involvement is pretty much a must, it's 6 for 1 spot.

Ando and clev both need games if their fit, unfortunately that seems quite rare that they are fit not to mention certainly in the case of ando and who knows with clev they take a while to get their sharpness back and if scholes is performing or fletcher back then they'd be hard pressed to get in not to mention be competing against each other most the time.

A loan gives ando a chance to get regular football and prove his fitness and development. Similarly we can see if he can stay fit and how he can actually perform in the middle over a sustained period. That way after next season when you'd imagine scholes and likely giggs to retire, we can judge whether Anderson can truly be relied on to replace scholes, and likewise hopefully by bein able to give clev a lot more game time than he would get having to share with ando, we can see how much he has to offer as scholes's potential successor.
 
Pexbo said:
Asking him to play a full game less than every other game with a few 30/45 minute cameos along the way is hardly "being dependant on him" and I don't expect him to be in a midfield 2 all that often for what it's worth. I think it will be:


Kagawa

Carrick - Scholes*



*Anderson/Cleverley/Jones/Giggs depending on fitness and opposition.
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We were pretty dependent on him last season weren't we? Certainly wouldn't have finished on 89 points without him.
 
the fact of the matter is that after next season we wont have scholes/giggs and carrick may be getting on too.

If we are still fecking around with a "will he wont he come good" as far as Anderson is concerned its a bad place to be.

Isnt it.
 
McGrathsipan said:
agreed, provided he is replaced.

but i think he will be kept another while
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right. actually i think two players in if he leaves given the state of fletch and ages of scholes and giggs.
but a move to another league could be best for him.
 
Cina said:
We were pretty dependent on him last season weren't we? Certainly wouldn't have finished on 89 points without him.
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Reflects wonderfully on Scholes, not so much on us.

Anyway, we were kind of lucky (if you can call it that) we were out of the CL and only had one match a week. Hopefully it won't be the same now and that makes everything much more difficult. It's great having Scholes around but we can't depend on him so much.
 
For me it's whether he can stay fit for one season and make the step up. At the beginning of last season him and Cleverley did a fantastic job, despite having never played together. Anderson has maybe suffered in that he's not really been defined positionally. He was bought as an attacking midfielder, has played center mid, attacking mid, left mid, and deep mid for us, never really though getting an extended run in the team due to fitness or form. I really thought last season he was going to blossom.

He's not our only player who's been a passenger at times, Evra has had long periods of playing below average, even our best midfielder, Carrick, has had drawn-out periods of playing within himself. Anderson still has a great chance to establish himself.
 
Like Owen last summer, I'd give him one more season to really make his mark on the team. Showed great promise of being a top United player in his debut season but has sadly faded since then.
 
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