Gold star post. About time we stopped idolizing average players.
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Gold star post. About time we stopped idolizing average players.
His form has dipped tremendously this season. Really bizarre stuff, maybe it is Matic that he can't play with but he has lost all ability to play in the space and I don't understand why. Likeable fella and I want him to come good but going through a real rough patch at the moment.
Last season he was an important player, this season he's been replaced in the lineup and more of a bit part player. He's gone down a gear like many players do in that situation. He may be a player that needs full confidence from his manager and playing each week to be at the level he was last season and if so, either he gets a run of games or may have to move on to play every week.
He's a squad player that would hopefully have the luxury of playing beside Paul Pogba if Matic were to get hurt.
Yeah, he's better than Fellaini as a HOLDING MID. He's not better than Fellaini in an attacking sense.
This season when he became a starter Lukaku started getting less touches.
Yeah, he's better than Fellaini as a HOLDING MID. He's not better than Fellaini in an attacking sense.
This season when he became a starter Lukaku started getting less touches.
Well he’s not even nearly good enough a player - even at his best- to be cut that sort of slack.
This is exactly what I said back in 2016 when I initially joined this forum. I watched Herrera in La Liga for 5 seasons, with both Zaragoza and Bilbao. He was a good player but by absolutely no means world class. He's not a player that fits in at a club who's ambitions it is to win league titles and CL trophies (which is where United should be aiming).
Of course, I was told that I was wrong and that he's better than Rakitic.
Ultimately, I don't think that there's much difference in quality between Herrera and Henderson (shoot me). They both work hard and win plenty of tackles, but they lack the overall ability to play for a top team. Still a decent player though.
Spanish Henderson. Best asset is his work rate. Not defensively good enought to play deep, not offensively good enough to play advanced. Just your jack of all trades master of none midfielder. A decent player on his day but his good attitude and passion towards football and United has had this guy overrated.
Sad to see how far he's fallen off from last season. I think the holding midfield role was perfect for him but now with matic's arrival he's had to go back to being the allround player that had a tenancy for erratic play.
With that said no player is immune to a drop in form. I've still got faith he'll come good and hopefully that happens as soon as possible for our sake
With that said no player is immune to a drop in form. I've still got faith he'll come good and hopefully that happens as soon as possible for our sake
This is exactly what I said back in 2016 when I initially joined this forum. I watched Herrera in La Liga for 5 seasons, with both Zaragoza and Bilbao. He was a good player but by absolutely no means world class. He's not a player that fits in at a club who's ambitions it is to win league titles and CL trophies (which is where United should be aiming).
Of course, I was told that I was wrong and that he's better than Rakitic.
Ultimately, I don't think that there's much difference in quality between Herrera and Henderson (shoot me). They both work hard and win plenty of tackles, but they lack the overall ability to play for a top team. Still a decent player though.
I think Henderson is pretty wank but at least he scores the odd pearler.
Played really poor so far this season. Too scared to get forward, always attempting a killer pass and seems to not know how to play with Matic beside him. If he just let go of himself and played with more freedom he would have a lot more joy and bring us some happiness as fans wanting him to succeed.
The last time Henderson was any good was in 13/14. Hererra is definitely better than Henderson.
LVG struggled with him and now we have that version back. Jose last season got the best out of him by switching him to a DM but no it seems Matic may well be ending Herrera's United career. For Herrera is now backup to Matic which meant he didn't get any game time after pre-season to build up sharpness and Matic starts every game, and when Herrera has got an opportunity to play its not bringing out the best in him as he is a terrible fit to play alongside Matic. His confidence must be sinking and if Barca really are in for him he must be sorely tempted, so I doubt his head is quite right at the moment. Certainly his passing is well off.
And here I thought we were gonna start playing like Barcelona as long as we took Fellaini out? 
Just goes to show most of our fans haven’t got a fecking clue what they’re talking about. Fellaini is a massive miss in this system. Especially with Pogba also gone.
Herrera has been woeful against Liverpool, Benfica and now Huddersfield. Him and Matic have zero chemistry together.
Just goes to show most of our fans haven’t got a fecking clue what they’re talking about. Fellaini is a massive miss in this system. Especially with Pogba also gone.
Herrera has been woeful against Liverpool, Benfica and now Huddersfield. Him and Matic have zero chemistry together.
I really like him but been pretty bad this season so far. It's kind of a shame. He was our player of the season last year and just gets instantly dropped for a new signing. That must be annoying to him. I can see why fans aren't happy with his performances but are people expecting him to come back into the team and start dominating games for us in a new role after we dropped him? I can't see it. He's a better player than a lot of people are giving him credit for here again. Utd players always get written off after a few bad games and fans are looking for someone to blame. What's actually true and more worrying is most of the other players who played today have had more game time and were just as bad as ander. It makes me start to question the managers lack of medium rotation. The matic and Herrera midfield has no chemistry and balance. They weren't supposed to play together often I would think. I reckon ander and mata will be free to leave at the end of this season after a season of not being first choice while previously being two of our more productive and talented players during a very rough period for the club. Most other teams would love to have them but for the really top teams I think they are more than likely squad players at best. Certainly on current form anyway.
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I meant the incident in our own box, the one you are referring was a penalty I agree.
If he had been that good last season, we wouldn't have needed Matic. We could have gone into this season with Herrera only. He is average defensively, wank offensively. Makes him another mediocre signing, as he is not even effective as a squad player.
It was more annoying for us to see our team regress to the extent that we considered Herrera as a vital player last season, rather than him being annoyed with us.
Point is, he was average even last season with a couple of very good performances. He was POTY for a 6th placed team in a season when almost every player underperformed, so that is really not reflective of his abilities. Fellaini was actually starting to eclipse him by end of last season itself.
Mourinho recognized his limitations and dropped him, which I along with some other people expected while others were praising him as a future captain.
Let's make something clear. If it was Ferguson, Herrera likely has a future here because the former can likely win the league playing Cleverley and Herrera in midfield and Fellaini as striker...or something like that. Mourinho is proven, but not as gifted as that.
So Mata and Herrera need to be shown the door in the summer and a new midfieder and #10 can be purchased. Its a shame as they are two of the most likeable players in football, but nice guys finish last.
I want to win as much as the next fan but matic, lukaku, miki and lidelof (all Jose signings) have been all also been more than a bit crap the last 3 matches. I think once again fundamentally something isn't clicking and it's not just Herrera's fault.
Anyone who has the desire and skill to be our player of the year should still have a big part to play in the following season. Obviously Players Jose trust will have a lot more chances to play themselves into form over the season. Hasn't fellainis form shown people anything about fans just instantly wanting to discard players that go out of fashion or through a rough patch. He'd have started the last 3 games and we probably would have been more threatening in an attacking way with more bite in midfield. Fans actually missing him etc. 500 million worth of signings and supposedly one of the best academies in the country and we are still relying on him?
I'm not quite sure what's going on at the minute but it looks like the manager doesn't see ander as a starter anymore. That's Fair enough. I want the club to get back to where it belongs rather than blindly supporting underperforming players during a pretty terrible spell for us but the truth is he's not even close to one of our worst players.
Anyone who has the desire and skill to be our player of the year should still have a big part to play in the following season. Obviously Players Jose trust will have a lot more chances to play themselves into form over the season. Hasn't fellainis form shown people anything about fans just instantly wanting to discard players that go out of fashion or through a rough patch. He'd have started the last 3 games and we probably would have been more threatening in an attacking way with more bite in midfield. Fans actually missing him etc. 500 million worth of signings and supposedly one of the best academies in the country and we are still relying on him?
I'm not quite sure what's going on at the minute but it looks like the manager doesn't see ander as a starter anymore. That's Fair enough. I want the club to get back to where it belongs rather than blindly supporting underperforming players during a pretty terrible spell for us but the truth is he's not even close to one of our worst players.
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he's been dog shit but it's obviously temporary
passing has been really poor and he hasn't been able to fill one of Pogbas boots
passing has been really poor and he hasn't been able to fill one of Pogbas boots
He also had a header that was well saved by the keeper just before Rashford scored. I thought he was the most likely player to do something to get the team back in the game. I would say I am shocked by some of the comments in this thread but I'm not at all.
Matic was incredibly wasteful vs Huddersfield. Those straight through balls were absolutely dreadful and just gave the ball away. Herrera played through the lines really well on a number of occasions. He was far better than Matic in that game.
And here I thought we were gonna start playing like Barcelona as long as we took Fellaini out?
Just goes to show most of our fans haven’t got a fecking clue what they’re talking about. Fellaini is a massive miss in this system. Especially with Pogba also gone.
Herrera has been woeful against Liverpool, Benfica and now Huddersfield. Him and Matic have zero chemistry together.
Fellaini and matic doesn’t work either unless opposition are rubbish, matic has been playing on his own since pogba got injured, the team doesn’t function without him.
Fellaini has at least been contributing though, Herrera has been a waste of space though, was a big mistake to have no proper back up for pogba and matic.
Think this will be Herrera’s last season at the club.
The more and more I've been watching Herrara this season the more and more he's starting to play like Tom Cleverly did for us. Tom cleverly used to run around looking like he's trying. Cleverly used to pass the ball and then immediately run into a space that was heavily marked in order to avoid receiving the pass back (typical behaviour for someone not really wanting the ball). Cleverly used to love himself the side pass. Cleverly had no feckin clue as to how to control pace in midfield - he would pass and move right away without thought. Cleverly used to try hollywood balls way too often for his skill. Does all of this ring a bell? Yes, unfortunately you can't unsee it with Herrara. I think he's gotten away with it a little more because he's spanish and he had an above average season last season.
To top all of that off, he simply does NOT work with Matic next to him. That has brought out the absolute worst in him.
To top all of that off, he simply does NOT work with Matic next to him. That has brought out the absolute worst in him.
Don't know why he's so feckin crap this season all of a sudden... He's struggling to do even basic things.
Quite simple really. Last season, we had no real DM. So Herrera was tasked with that role and he looked better than what we'd seen before (Schmidfielders and Fellaini) plus he looked like he was trying. Positionally, he was all over the park - but nobody noticed as we generally had Carrick cleaning up behind him - apart from having Rojo, Bailly and Jones having standout seasons. This season, Matic is the DM and has instantly looked so much classier. He's enabled us to play 2 in the middle and look good - something Herrera just could not do.
Last season, people blamed Pogba for being unable to play in a midfield 2 - but that excuse doesn't stand up when you see how good a midfield 2 looks with Matic as Pogba's partner. Still, people's love for Herrera means that few attribute this to the big step-up that Matic has been over him. Now, we're seeing Herrera tasked with being more attacking in the absence of Pogba and Fellaini - something that a lot of folks on here wanted for the last 2 seasons. We're finally seeing why no manager agreed with this view though. He's simply not good enough. His positional discipline is atrocious and he's all over the place. Add to this his propensity to misplace balls and play too soon and Matic is always stretching to cover the space. Some see his "all over the place" displays as "dynamic" and say "at least he's trying", but dispassionately, that's all the stuff that Henderson does too and we all know he's cack. In a 4-2-3-1, both of the midfield 2 need to be disciplined in position. Else, it all starts falling apart - as we saw against Liverpool and then Huddersfield.
In summary, Herrera looked excellent in a team where top-4 was the aim and we didn't have a Matic. With heightened expectations and a much better DM in place, he's looking like what he is - an above-average player with great attitude and heart, but one that doesn't fit into a squad with major ambitions. I'm not even sure he'd be a great Matic replacement, except in the early rounds of Cups - given how he's failed to work in a midfield two since, well, forever. If we need to play 3 in the midfield to accommodate him, it means we buy - and if so, I'd rather we bought someone who's closer to Matic's level.
About time we accepted that Mata, Herrera, Young, Lingard, Darmian (and perhaps even Mkhi if this is his level) are just not good enough any more and we need upgrades.
Herrera was our player of the year last season. Tackles, interceptions he was brilliant. He is one of the key players to transit our play from defense to attack. Those who believe that Matic and Fellaini are better options, need to have these two play for a year and then judge. We have played against scousers, and I did not see Matic doing something extraordinary. I am also yet to see Pog do great against City or any other top team in the league. Actually, he went missing largely in those big games, and that is exactly why Ander won player of the year award.
I'm not sure i agree with that.
Herrera is a player that shines in a technical midfield that keeps the ball moving quickly around the players with none of them holding it for more than a couple of touches. Matic prefers using his physical attributes and bringing the ball forward at his feet - same as Pogba and to an extent Fellaini, which is why they work well together. Herrera and Matic just don't match each other's styles. Herrera doesn't know where to be when Matic holds on to the ball and Matic is not one to play the triangles Herrera likes.
Herrera is plenty capable but he needs players like him around him, which is what Matic has had until the last couple of games.
Hmmm... I bought this last season, but who did we have playing nice, quick, technical football last season? If anything, our midfield and forwards have been quicker and more dynamic this season. Herrera's standout statistics last season were on interceptions and tackles - neither of which are particularly cultured or technical. He was referred to as "nasty" as well at times for his play.
On the whole, I think we tend to overstate his technical skill going forward just because of how poor we were last season. Last season, Carrick was the unsung hero (my opinion; feel free to differ) as his inclusion made the midfield 3 complete. He dictated a lot of play (none of which was too quick, thanks to our squad) and Herrera slotted in very neatly, freeing up Pogba (in tandem with Carrick). This season, he's not got Carrick behind, but has Matic. While you could say that Matic is slower at releasing the ball than Carrick was, Herrera's biggest issue (opinion, again) is that he's not tasked with intercepting / tackling but with making the through balls. As such, his biggest strengths from last season aren't required any more. Instead, the one failing that stopped consecutive managers from playing him regularly (if at all) as AM has become the area he needs to perform in and he's proving that the managers may have got it right.
Like I said though, this is ultimately my opinion and you're free to differ. Cheers!
Our midfield and forwards are quicker and more dynamic yes but that's how they themselves play rather than how they play the ball. We have moved towards a more direct style of play using a core of >6' players. Its become more about the athletes and less about their usage of the ball. Herrera doesn't fit that mold in any way, I don't think it means he's not good enough though, he's just a round peg in a team full of square holes.
Was good last season but genuinely dogshite this season. Forward passing is absolutely bullshite. Is not doing well enough in defense either.
Looks like the good games last season were rather the exception. This season, he's been poor everytime he played and his passing has become really poor. He used to be creative, risky and played with some grit. All gone it seems
Swansea 0:2 Man Utd
Another good game as our deepest midfielder. Eventually, I'd like to see him sit behind a 5 of Matic, Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Lukaku.
You can tell he had a decent game because yours is the only post in his thread. It’s stupid to judge him playing in the playmaker role and yet it’s happening. When he plays as a DM or the ball winner he’s twice the player.
Unusually quiet in here. Strange.
He looks much more comfortable as a DMF. Said before his only position in the team should be as a backup to Matic in this position, as he's not good enough going forward.
Agreed. Also our intensity dropped off a lot after Ander went off.
PS) the threaded pass into Rashford for our first goal. Very nice.
Matic that far forward? No thanks Light.
I think Matic could excel as a box to box player. He's an excellent shielder of the ball so can receive passes into the channels without being dispossessed, is a very good passer, has a decent shot on him, and his ball carrying/dribbling could be very effective further up. Even when he's been in a 2with Pogba he hasn't been afraid to venture forwards at times and hasn't looked that bad in doing so. Also, like with Fellaini, he could help us bypass pressing teams with balls up top to him.
Which is strange as when he was at Bilbao I thought he looked like an excellent box to box player but has played his best stuff here as the deepest mid.
Yeah he's much better in a deeper role where he helps control the game but is more a ball winner rather then a playmaker. The second half vs Huddersfield he did well in and another good game here today.
Solid performance, thought he did well in leading McTominay.
Maybe because fewer people watch these games? I, for example, live in the U.S. and couldn't watch this game in the middle of the day. Plus, if you look at the number of people who voted for the MOTM, it's way smaller than in league and champions league games. That's the way it goes when you're talking about the 4th most important title in English football.
Besides, as I type this post, there are only 7 posts in the Rashford thread, 14 in the Martial thread (and 9 in this thread) about this game. Does that imply any agenda against either of Rashford and Martial?
My bottom line: it's not necessarily an indication of any agenda against Herrera.
That's probably what Mourinho plans to do when either Pogba or Fellaini is back.
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He played in a midfield 2 in both games. If anything, his role was more attacking vs Swansea because he played in front of a back 5.
In reality, he played quite well in both games but the team won this one so there's less inclination to find someone to blame.
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