Amorim's Rebuild

bb8 said:
Of course. He's already 30 years old. A club this far out from contending would be pretty silly not to sell him if we could get a good offer for him (say £50M+).
Click to expand...
yeah who needs a heart anyway
 
bb8 said:
Of course. He's already 30 years old. A club this far out from contending would be pretty silly not to sell him if we could get a good offer for him (say £50M+).
Click to expand...

It may cost us more than 50m if we get relegated into the championship.
 
It's pretty obvious what this team needs. The millions dollar question is how many dollars will we have and how many of those positions can we improve.

My order of priority:

1 A Striker
2 A fast CB to play centrally
3 A Goalie
4 A #10
4 A CM
6 A RWB
7 Another CM
 
The most alarming sign that we have no long-term plan yet. Are we going to sign a load of expensive wing-backs for a manager may well be sacked in Summer ‘26? What then?
 
fps said:
The most alarming sign that we have no long-term plan yet. Are we going to sign a load of expensive wing-backs for a manager may well be sacked in Summer ‘26? What then?
Click to expand...
If we sign a manager who plays with 3 CBs (like De Zerbi), not a problem. We'll stick to Amorim though and he'll make us better.
 
aeh1991 said:
If we sign a manager who plays with 3 CBs (like De Zerbi), not a problem. We'll stick to Amorim though and he'll make us better.
Click to expand...
No top teams across Europe's main leagues play with 3 CBs. Only one team has ever won the PL or the Champions League playing 3 CBs, and that was Chelsea. The managers didn't last long though. Top managers are tactically flexible, look at Slot or even what Potter is already doing at West Ham (Not saying he is a top manager as such...).
 
Highfather_24 said:
Onana
Maz--MDL--Martinez
Amad--Ugarte--CM--LWB
Bruno--AMF
CF​
Click to expand...
We already have Yoro and Dorgu as well. I think a keeper and a Bruno replacement are necessary as well.

New Keeper
Maz-New CB- Martinez/Yoro
Amad- Ugarte - New CM/ Bruno- Dorgu
Zirkzee- New AMF
CF​
 
Insanity said:
It's pretty obvious what this team needs. The millions dollar question is how many dollars will we have and how many of those positions can we improve.

My order of priority:

1 A Striker
2 A fast CB to play centrally
3 A Goalie
4 A #10
4 A CM
6 A RWB
7 Another CM
Click to expand...
Agreed. Those are the clear priority areas. I think striker is number one too but I'd put a 10 as priority number two. We are so blunt up front that our first two signings need to be quality attacking players.
 
Let’s say we do manage to shift Rashford and Antony. I’d like to think the club are looking to generate cash from selling Dalot, Onana, Casemiro, Hojlund, Shaw, Mount and Garnacho. I appreciate many of those won’t attract the slightest bit of attention but they all need replacing. I’d add Martinez to that list too as he’s not reliable and never going to be fit long term.
We need:
ST
GK
RWB/LWB x 2
CM x 2
Another 10
CB
It’s never going to happen, but the rebuild for this system is huge and beyond a couple of years to fix. If we get lucky with player sales we could bring in 4 or 5 this summer.
I think Amorim will need to find a role for Casemiro next season and work around a gormless Onana. Maybe we can get 20 games out of Mount who I still think could play a role when fit.
 
Red00012 said:
We didn’t just spend £30 odd million on a back up wing back
Click to expand...
Sure we can. You need squad players. We paid 40M for a backup striker. We paid 55M for effectively a Bruno backup.

Also idc how much we spent. I dont think Dorgu is good enough to be starting quality for a top 4 team.
Remember the geese said:
Quenda. Yoro plays too.
Click to expand...
Yoro will probably play because Martinez is injury prone.

Looking at that lineup, I'd much rather a Kerkez than a Quenda.
 
Gordon'sHill said:
No top teams across Europe's main leagues play with 3 CBs. Only one team has ever won the PL or the Champions League playing 3 CBs, and that was Chelsea. The managers didn't last long though. Top managers are tactically flexible, look at Slot or even what Potter is already doing at West Ham (Not saying he is a top manager as such...).
Click to expand...

Everybody wants Xabi Alonso and he plays 3 at the back. So is Potter at West Ham...
 
Highfather_24 said:
Sure we can. You need squad players. We paid 40M for a backup striker. We paid 55M for effectively a Bruno backup.

Also idc how much we spent. I dont think Dorgu is good enough to be starting quality for a top 4 team.

Yoro will probably play because Martinez is injury prone.

Looking at that lineup, I'd much rather a Kerkez than a Quenda.
Click to expand...

There's no chance we're spending big money on Kerkez or any other LWB now. We have more important issues to sort out. Dorgu and Leon will have a season at least, backed up by Dalot and maybe Shaw if he's ever fit again.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Onana
Maz--MDL--Martinez
Amad--Ugarte--CM--LWB
Bruno--AMF
CF​
Click to expand...
My picks :

CM : Stiller(50M)
LWB : Kerkez(50M)
AMF : Cunha(60M)
CF : Gyokeres(60M)

Total spend : 220M

We'll probably need to sell a few players to fund this

Rashford - 30M
Sancho - 25M
Antony - 30M
Hojlund - 30M
Malacia - 5M

Total : 120M

Net spend : ~100M

Highfather_24 said:
Onana
Maz--De Ligt--Martinez
Amad--Ugarte--Stiller--Kerkez
Bruno--Cunha
Gyokeres​
Click to expand...
 
Gordon'sHill said:
No top teams across Europe's main leagues play with 3 CBs. Only one team has ever won the PL or the Champions League playing 3 CBs, and that was Chelsea. The managers didn't last long though. Top managers are tactically flexible, look at Slot or even what Potter is already doing at West Ham (Not saying he is a top manager as such...).
Click to expand...
Really backward thinking that. Leverkusen & Inter. Both won the league playing that formation. Atlanta won the Europa using that. Frankfurt are a top team playing 3atb too.

And again, the formation doesn't matter, the players we should be getting in are players who also play in 4atb formations and will be able to if we change the manager.
 
Remember the geese said:
Yoro will play regardless. He's a World Class talent. I'd much rather Quenda. He's a different level of talent to Kerkez. Besides, Dorgu is here to play.
Click to expand...
Yoro will get enough minutes, but at this moment Maz, MDL and Martinez are above him in the pecking order for me. Mostly because of his age.

I dont agree Quenda is a "different level of talent". He's doing it in the Portuguese league. Kerkez plays in the PL, its a different much more intense level. From what I've seen of Dorgu, I dont think he should be our first choice in any position.

I'd rather have Amad right, Kerkez/Ait-Nouri on the left....rather than Quenda right and Dorgu left.
 
Xeque_279 said:
Really backward thinking that. Leverkusen & Inter. Both won the league playing that formation. Atlanta won the Europa using that. Frankfurt are a top team playing 3atb too.

And again, the formation doesn't matter, the players we should be getting in are players who also play in 4atb formations and will be able to if we change the manager.
Click to expand...
I agree with your post, your examples are very relevant as well.
If we also add the manager candidates that we were linked with prior to Amorim and previous summer, in Tuchel, Southgate, Frank, Potter etc.. they all have a history of playing 3-4-3/3-5-2/5-3-2 or whatever ones wanna call it.
The right/best players will be able to adapt to different tactical setups.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Yoro will get enough minutes, but at this moment Maz, MDL and Martinez are above him in the pecking order for me. Mostly because of his age.

I dont agree Quenda is a "different level of talent". He's doing it in the Portuguese league. Kerkez plays in the PL, its a different much more intense level. From what I've seen of Dorgu, I dont think he should be our first choice in any position.

I'd rather have Amad right, Kerkez/Ait-Nouri on the left....rather than Quenda right and Dorgu left.
Click to expand...
Martinez is a massive question mark due to the injury issues he's had. Mazraoui is a right back who has been crammed into a centre back role. Yoro will make himself a starter very shortly, if he hasn't already.

Quenda is one of the most talented young players in the world. He's a similar case to what Yoro was last season. I don't see us willingly deciding to turn him down. Although, I too rate Amad and what he has shown us at wing-back.
 
Personally I think that this rebuild will take more than a summer, so we're going to finish the summer with gaps and makeweights whatever happens. With that in mind, I think stage one has to be attackers, attackers, attackers.

Klopp had a spell where it was obvious his midfield & attack was on the wane and they needed to rebuild both, but he started by buying Jota, Nunez, Diaz and then later Gakpo and pretty much ignoring midfield. At the time I thought it was odd at a time when they were struggling to even put out a midfield, never mind a title challenging one. But in practice what happened is that their attackers, plus the never ageing Salah, kept them afloat in games where their overall play was poor. That isn't enough to win the league over the course of a season, but it meant that in any given game they always had a boxer's chance.

I would prefer to buy 2 or 3 attackers this summer out of any budget we have, then bolster our midfield with an older player on a short contract. Does that leave us short of quality & quantity in midfield and defence? Sure does, but we're going to be short somewhere, and our inability to score goals is such an awful handicap that I think that has to be our focus. Too many times this season (and for ages before) we've had promising spells in matches, not scored when we're on top, and when the inevitable cheap goal gets given away, we're suddenly facing another defeat.
 
B20 said:
Ten Hag will go down as your historically most noteworthy manager post-ferguson as his tenure was a time where you overstretched yourselves financially to make a genuine revolutionary overhaul of the squad and he absolutely botched it. Although Solskjaer must carry some of the blame too. Of his seven biggest investments (Maguire, AWB, Fernandes, Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, Van de Beek) only one has left an enduring positive imprint on the squad.

Honestly, given how AVBesque Amorim is so far, I wouldn't be in a hurry to open the pursestrings for him. And not sure I would be even if he were looking promising.

I think you'd be in a better place a year from now if you focused on making cheap shrewd signings that can consolidate a top half finish and could have a squad role in a top four challenging team. Reduce and flatten the wage bill, offload those who don't actually want to be here and focus on next season being the kind of team Villa, Forest and Bournemouth are - A team that can become more than the sum of its parts where team dynamics accentuate player strengths, rather than a team reliant on playing to the strengths/compensating for the weaknesses of its best players.

In other words, getting in system players rather the "Great" players.

That's something that can actually be built on and evolved as opposed to what you are now and have been for a long time.

Honestly think someone like Traore could be a shrewd signing. Not as a starter, but he's cheap and could be someone who excels in a needed tactical function (ball carry out wide) and forces the opposition to consider him, regardless of how tame his end product is.

The only place I'd consider deviating from that is up front if the right player is available - Osimhen, Gyokeres. Right now, Højlund is just too awful to persist with and that's one position where marginals can really translate to points on the board.
Click to expand...
Liverpool fans can afford to talk because you had that title drought but ended it under Klopp, what is the one consistent you see in United`s nosedive? Personally I`ve been surprised to see too many players lacking the kind of character a club like United should expect.

Especially during phases of player disrespect when players like Luke Shaw were being openly snide about management on social media and others were doing similar yet looking like they weren`t too bothered about keeping their part of the bargain to play to win. In my opinion those kinds of players should have been put on notice that the club was looking for buyers for them - better to have got that over with then and be in a better position now. What do you think?
 
ryansgirl said:
Liverpool fans can afford to talk because you had that title drought but ended it under Klopp, what is the one consistent you see in United`s nosedive? Personally I`ve been surprised to see too many players lacking the kind of character a club like United should expect.

Especially during phases of player disrespect when players like Luke Shaw were being openly snide about management on social media and others were doing similar yet looking like they weren`t too bothered about keeping their part of the bargain to play to win. In my opinion those kinds of players should have been put on notice that the club was looking for buyers for them - better to have got that over with then and be in a better position now. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Terrible upper management. No attempt at a controlled wage structure, no attempt at a longterm profile for recruitment, short-termism and panic decisions on a regular basis. And I am sure the entitled player culture trickles down from C-level culture.
 
B20 said:
Terrible upper management. No attempt at a controlled wage structure, no attempt at a longterm profile for recruitment, short-termism and panic decisions on a regular basis. And I am sure the entitled player culture trickles down from C-level culture.
Click to expand...
Great summary. For me it`s not that Manchester United haven`t won the title or the European Cup or another Treble since Sir Alex went - it`s the lurching from manager to manager, the shambles that a club like United has become despite having so many advantages financially, traditionally etc. The lack of identity. Even in these days of cosmopolitan teams and a Premier League where foreign players are normal, there`s nothing stopping English teams from having a core identity where there`s a drive to be the best even if that`s not possible.
 
userman said:
I agree with your post, your examples are very relevant as well.
If we also add the manager candidates that we were linked with prior to Amorim and previous summer, in Tuchel, Southgate, Frank, Potter etc.. they all have a history of playing 3-4-3/3-5-2/5-3-2 or whatever ones wanna call it.
The right/best players will be able to adapt to different tactical setups.
Click to expand...
Not to mention how many managers switch between a back 4 out of possession and a back 3 when they have the ball. Pep & Arteta frequently do. Hell, Pep played with 3 CBs in his back line (Ake, Stones, Dias) for much of their treble winning season. It really isn't that outlandish, its more about different approaches to similar layouts.
 
pocco said:
Everybody wants Xabi Alonso and he plays 3 at the back. So is Potter at West Ham...
Click to expand...
... Tiago Motta, Tuchel, Naggelsmann, Inzaghi etc. A lot of Coaches dabble with back 3s. The guy you replied to doesn't know what he's on about
 
fps said:
The most alarming sign that we have no long-term plan yet. Are we going to sign a load of expensive wing-backs for a manager may well be sacked in Summer ‘26? What then?
Click to expand...
Dorgu is a LB - he's not a specialist LWB

The point is the profiles have been much better - upside even if they don't work out - if we look at the squad from a personnel perspective i.e. simply in terms of cover for positions LB was the single biggest priority. Shaw is not reliable, Malacia had a long term injury and is barely back playing, Dalot is not good enough as long term cover, we'd been playing guys like Amrabat there in recent times. It was an issue that has been with the team for multiple seasons.
 
quadrant said:
Personally I think that this rebuild will take more than a summer, so we're going to finish the summer with gaps and makeweights whatever happens. With that in mind, I think stage one has to be attackers, attackers, attackers.

Klopp had a spell where it was obvious his midfield & attack was on the wane and they needed to rebuild both, but he started by buying Jota, Nunez, Diaz and then later Gakpo and pretty much ignoring midfield. At the time I thought it was odd at a time when they were struggling to even put out a midfield, never mind a title challenging one. But in practice what happened is that their attackers, plus the never ageing Salah, kept them afloat in games where their overall play was poor. That isn't enough to win the league over the course of a season, but it meant that in any given game they always had a boxer's chance.

I would prefer to buy 2 or 3 attackers this summer out of any budget we have, then bolster our midfield with an older player on a short contract. Does that leave us short of quality & quantity in midfield and defence? Sure does, but we're going to be short somewhere, and our inability to score goals is such an awful handicap that I think that has to be our focus. Too many times this season (and for ages before) we've had promising spells in matches, not scored when we're on top, and when the inevitable cheap goal gets given away, we're suddenly facing another defeat.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Bring more goals and attacking talent into the team has to be priority number 1
 
You need to start with what the expectation are and what the timeframe to achieve it. Then assemble a squad by the first matchday of next season with those targets.

I'd say Top 6 should be the aim next season, but to achieve that Amorim needs A LOT of cash to spend in the summer.

If Sir Jim isn't going to spend then a Top 10 finish should be the goal etc. There should also be some communication or leaks to the press about the season aims.

If you are just gonna bring in a few teenagers with zero experience of English football, then you can't be piling the pressure on the manager to win every match.
 
For Amorim's system to have any chance of working we need to overhaul most of the first team, either because we don't have a player that fits the profile of a position or the player we have simply isn't good enough. It's an overwhelming project.

............................NEW..............................
..................................................................
............Bruno..................Amad................
..................................................................
Dorgu.................................................NEW
..................Ugarte......NEW........................
...................................................................
............NEW........de Ligt....NEW................
...................................................................
............................NEW...............................

This doesn't even begin to address the notion that we need an entire slew of backup players who can actually function properly within a 3-4-3 as well.

We basically need to pull a Chelsea and buy 20 players.
 
Insanity said:
It's pretty obvious what this team needs. The millions dollar question is how many dollars will we have and how many of those positions can we improve.

My order of priority:

1 A Striker
2 A fast CB to play centrally
3 A Goalie
4 A #10
4 A CM
6 A RWB
7 Another CM
Click to expand...

Agree with this for the most part, although for me De Ligt is good enough to play centrally even though he is not the quickest.
 
I think selling Ganacho seems like the only viable option to seriously upgrade the squad. £50 to £60 million sale boosts the budget by £150 million on top of a potential Rashford sale, which should boost the budget beyond £200 million. That could allow us to bring in Cunha, Osimhen, GK, LCB and a RWB.
 
Highfather_24 said:
My picks :

CM : Stiller(50M)
LWB : Kerkez(50M)
AMF : Cunha(60M)
CF : Gyokeres(60M)

Total spend : 220M

We'll probably need to sell a few players to fund this

Rashford - 30M
Sancho - 25M
Antony - 30M
Hojlund - 30M
Malacia - 5M

Total : 120M

Net spend : ~100M
Click to expand...
You think a club that is in a billion of debt with £414m in transfer debt owed to other clubs can spend £100m in net in one window?
 
Giggsy13 said:
I think selling Ganacho seems like the only viable option to seriously upgrade the squad. £50 to £60 million sale boosts the budget by £150 million on top of a potential Rashford sale, which should boost the budget beyond £200 million. That could allow us to bring in Cunha, Osimhen, GK, LCB and a RWB.
Click to expand...

Does it - how? United need cash to make purchases.

We will certainly make some player purchases this summer, but I'm expecting a net spend close to zero. We already have £154m of outstanding transfer balance due this year - United cannot simply keep kicking this can down the road.

I agree that selling Garnacho and/or Mainoo is a realistic possibility, but even if one or both go, it won't enable us to spend like drunken sailors this summer.
 
stepic said:
No he isn’t, and no we don’t. LWB is literally our least needed position to improve.
Click to expand...
This is delusion, its one of our weakest positions. Our only players there right now is Dorgu, thats it. I dont count Dalot as an option there, he is abysmal there.

And Dorgu is young and learning, we saw that yesterday. We should not pin all our hopes on him. He doesnt look ready to me. And that Leon kid should be sent on loan.

In Amorim's system, wingback is one of the most important positions. We have Amad, Dorgu and Dalot for the right side. We need a proper PL level option on the left.

Devil_forever said:
You think a club that is in a billion of debt with £414m in transfer debt owed to other clubs can spend £100m in net in one window?
Click to expand...
We are very fecked if we cant.
 
Infra-red said:
Does it - how? United need cash to make purchases.

We will certainly make some player purchases this summer, but I'm expecting a net spend close to zero. We already have £154m of outstanding transfer balance due this year - United cannot simply keep kicking this can down the road.

I agree that selling Garnacho and/or Mainoo is a realistic possibility, but even if one or both go, it won't enable us to spend like drunken sailors this summer.
Click to expand...

Yeah it does via how PSR works.

If we sell Rashford for example for 40m... we can spend around 100/120m on transfers.
The way amortisation and installment plans work, selling 40m shows a 40m profit. So, say we buy a 60m player but only pay 20m upfront and the rest over the next few years. We can buy 2 60m players.

Add to that we probably have a 50m budget to spend. So, selling a few players can easily allow us to spend 200m.

It doesn't have to be Garnacho or Mainoo, the reason their names are banded about is because they are probably the easiest to sell for profit.

Rashforf 40m, Antony, 25m are the only ones I can think of really.

Lindelof, Eriksen leaving will clear up wages but really we need to get rid of Mount, Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro at least as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.