Amorim's Rebuild

Brazilian_Ronaldo_9 said:
Can’t just throw the kids in just for the sake of it. They have to be ready or else they’ll flop and lose the confidence.

Look at Obi, nervous and trying to control the ball in some situations but failing to do so. Gotta ease them into it.
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I’m not suggesting that we start them, but we should be filling the bench in any first team match.
 
Woziak said:
Xabi is playing 442 against Bayern tonight and has played 4231 or 433 quite a lot this season, Guardiola, Flick and Arteta set up 433 and then go to 325 when they are dominating the ball so really poor examples,
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They aren't. The structure doesn't make that much of a difference, it's the personnel that matters here. Tactically the main difference defending in a 541, 442 or 433 is how many forwards you ask to stay up
Woziak said:
the Madrid derby last night, two much better coaches than ours decided to play 442 against each other,
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yeah, Madrid is one of the few top sides that doesn't use a back 3 and doesn't play 3 CBs. Liverpool, PSG and Bayern are the same this season. Atletico switches quite a bit
Woziak said:
so not many really use 5 defenders with 3 CB’s and 2 Defensive Midfielders with 2 inverted narrow 10’s, especially in front of 75,000 fans at home!
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That's the thing - playing 5 defenders and 2 defensive minded midfielders. That's a personnel issue, not a structural/tactical one
 
giorno said:
They aren't. The structure doesn't make that much of a difference, it's the personnel that matters here. Tactically the main difference defending in a 541, 442 or 433 is how many forwards you ask to stay up

yeah, Madrid is one of the few top sides that doesn't use a back 3 and doesn't play 3 CBs. Liverpool, PSG and Bayern are the same this season. Atletico switches quite a bit

That's the thing - playing 5 defenders and 2 defensive minded midfielders. That's a personnel issue, not a structural/tactical one
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He never played this way with sporting, I just don’t understand why he continues to play this way, he would have been better keeping Rashford until Summer as he’s still the club’s best finisher and used him as a lazy 9, even that version of Rashford is better than Höjlund, he should have tried Ganaucho as left or right wing back that switched with Dorgu just to give us more threat and pace, I’ve never seen a United team/Squad with such a lack of attacking pace and threat.

He’s taken only 18 with him against Real Sociedad, So only 7 on the bench tomorrow rather than the 9 and probably no pace!

Imagine looking at a bench with Casemiro, Lindelof, Eriksen?

Antony and Rashford should only have been allowed to leave with suitable replacements?
 
The decision on Rashford clearly came from above, otherwise sure, I don't disagree he's making you worse than you could be with his choices

Though the squad is poorly built in general
 
Woziak said:
He never played this way with sporting, I just don’t understand why he continues to play this way, he would have been better keeping Rashford until Summer as he’s still the club’s best finisher and used him as a lazy 9, even that version of Rashford is better than Höjlund, he should have tried Ganaucho as left or right wing back that switched with Dorgu just to give us more threat and pace, I’ve never seen a United team/Squad with such a lack of attacking pace and threat.

He’s taken only 18 with him against Real Sociedad, So only 7 on the bench tomorrow rather than the 9 and probably no pace!

Imagine looking at a bench with Casemiro, Lindelof, Eriksen?

Antony and Rashford should only have been allowed to leave with suitable replacements?
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The same Rashford who didn't want to train properly?
He burned his bridges when Amorim would have given him a chance.
 
Gordon'sHill said:
Sorry, I may not be a great student of tactics but I think you are completely wrong. Playing 5 notional CBs (when you list 4) is different to formation. Stones regularly plays in midfield. Pep rarely uses 3 CBs in a classic 3 at the back, his set up is much more fluid than Amorim's with one CB effectively playing as a DM. You are also wrong to somehow claim Liverpool, Barca etc play '3 at the back in possession'. Players pushing forward to overload midfield and wings is completely different to 3 at the back. Leverkusen are a rarity that does play more 3 at the back (which can become a 5). So if Amorim's system is some enigma, why is the manager himself saying it will take a long time and require lots of time on the training field? Why are teams finding it so easy to score agaist us even when we field 5 defenders and 2 DM?s. So we are back to blaming players again, as we did with Ole, Rangnick, ETH and now Amorim. Even though its now a different squad?

Go and read a bit more on tactics and then come back with a sensible post.
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Replacing the likes of Martial and Cavani with the likes of Hojlund and Zirkzee hasn’t magically fixed the squad issue, has it?

Our transfer and contract management has been appalling for years, and so we still have massive squad issues despite replacing much of the squad.

It’s tempting to say read up a bit more on our transfer failings and then come back with a sensible post…
 
Bright_Eyes said:
Okay, but there are also reports that Amorim was Berrada's choice and he powered that one through, so if that doesn't work out, perhaps largely because we don't have the squad for his style, then that's a big mistake. It was reported that it was a big part of the friction that lead to the sacking. And as far as I know, Ashworth had more of a background in making these kind of decisions than Berrada. Do we really want a CEO making these kind of decisions again? His main expertise appears to be in sponsorships and commerce whilst Ashworth's is in building sustainable structures and cultures and long term footballing strategy. Ashworth was the more qualified of the two to lead on the hiring of the new manager and he was ultimately overridden. If all of that was with the blessing of the owner, then that's even worse because it means we have an owner who isn't listening to the people with the most expertise.
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If you read my post you'd see the part where Ratcliffe was unhappy with Ashworth because he wasn't making decisions or demonstrating any expertise in the things you're saying. He was simply outsourcing this to other groups which leads Ratliffe to the obvious conclusion of why would I pay you millions of pounds when I could do the exact same thing?

What's the difference between Ashworth outsourcing our decision making progress and Ratcliffe doing it? Ratcliffe was correct that there's no point in paying Ashworth millions of ponds a year to effectively be a middle manager.
 
Camilo said:
The results always matter. You think people are happy paying for shite football?
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We could improve results short term by hiring sean dysche in all probability. Is that the right choice? Or should we take some short term pain for longer term gain, ie. slightly worse results but amorim working with players he wants to work with next season
 
FlawlessVictory88 said:
If you read my post you'd see the part where Ratcliffe was unhappy with Ashworth because he wasn't making decisions or demonstrating any expertise in the things you're saying. He was simply outsourcing this to other groups which leads Ratliffe to the obvious conclusion of why would I pay you millions of pounds when I could do the exact same thing?

What's the difference between Ashworth outsourcing our decision making progress and Ratcliffe doing it? Ratcliffe was correct that there's no point in paying Ashworth millions of ponds a year to effectively be a middle manager.
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In that case, Ratcliffe did not do enough research on who he was hiring, and to wait so long to get him through the door only to sack him because of his modus operandi that should have been known in advance is a big mistake that has potentially set us back.
 
Bright_Eyes said:
In that case, Ratcliffe did not do enough research on who he was hiring, and to wait so long to get him through the door only to sack him because of his modus operandi that should have been known in advance is a big mistake that has potentially set us back.
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I agree that he should have learned much more about what Ashworth could and couldn't do as well as how he planned to make decisions. These would all be fairly basic questions that should have been rigorously interrogated before putting Ashworth or anyone in charge.
 
Woziak said:
Antony and Rashford should only have been allowed to leave with suitable replacements?
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Rashford who has been poor for almost two seasons, said he wanted to leave, stopped training well and every United fan had come to realise might need moving on (Even before his great season under Ten Hag).

And Antony who we 100% need to sell as he has shown nothing to prove he is PL level.

Both now performing to a decent enough level that we may actually get some money for them. Yes they should have been kept and used as squad players and had their values continue to diminish.

It’s like some fans have the memory of goldfish sometimes.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
We could improve results short term by hiring sean dysche in all probability. Is that the right choice? Or should we take some short term pain for longer term gain, ie. slightly worse results but amorim working with players he wants to work with next season
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If Sean Dyche could improve us then wtf is Amorim doing? This isn't rocket science.
 
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