Yeah if we get rashford, antony, sancho, casemiro, eriksen, lindelof, and a couple of others out maybe malacia, I think it leaves a starting squad thats very thin, but finally a building base almost free of deadwood and failed transfers. (i think shaw will follow a natural path to leaving and mount will be given one more chance as nobody will take him, but I do think he'd be sellable next summer if he doesnt come good).
Amorim's Rebuild
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Yeah if we get rashford, antony, sancho, casemiro, eriksen, lindelof, and a couple of others out maybe malacia, I think it leaves a starting squad thats very thin, but finally a building base almost free of deadwood and failed transfers. (i think shaw will follow a natural path to leaving and mount will be given one more chance as nobody will take him, but I do think he'd be sellable next summer if he doesnt come good).
Everyone is talking about transfers and what not... are we going into another one of those transfer windows?
Seems very similar to last season, I suspect with more losses incoming, the pressure on the manager will get amplified even further.
Once we get knocked out the FA cup and Europa league, which is a when rather than If, his future will be looked at.
Are INEOS going to back him like they did Ten Hag for it to all blow back in their faces again?
I dont know what the answer is, but there are major doubts that Amorim will be manager this time next year.
I say he is sacked by Christmas.
Seems very similar to last season, I suspect with more losses incoming, the pressure on the manager will get amplified even further.
Once we get knocked out the FA cup and Europa league, which is a when rather than If, his future will be looked at.
Are INEOS going to back him like they did Ten Hag for it to all blow back in their faces again?
I dont know what the answer is, but there are major doubts that Amorim will be manager this time next year.
I say he is sacked by Christmas.
I watched the Monaco game last night.
Maghnes Akliouche looks a truly top player, always made the right decision, drove through midfield with pace, would be a great long term Bruno replacement.
Shame he has got PSG written all over him, probably wouldn't come anyway but for me this is the sort of player we should be targeting.
Maghnes Akliouche looks a truly top player, always made the right decision, drove through midfield with pace, would be a great long term Bruno replacement.
Shame he has got PSG written all over him, probably wouldn't come anyway but for me this is the sort of player we should be targeting.
Adama Traore is out of contract in the summer so available for a free.
Can't think of that many players who fit the profile for right wing back more than him. Earns 60k a week at Fulham so we could effectively replace the wages we're paying Johnny Evans with him.
Can't think of that many players who fit the profile for right wing back more than him. Earns 60k a week at Fulham so we could effectively replace the wages we're paying Johnny Evans with him.
God I hope not, especially with how much I’ve slated him over the years.
We need to avoid players like him who look dangerous but offer nothing.
Yeah right. He couldn't last 90 minutes in the wing-back role to save his life.
Ten Hag will go down as your historically most noteworthy manager post-ferguson as his tenure was a time where you overstretched yourselves financially to make a genuine revolutionary overhaul of the squad and he absolutely botched it. Although Solskjaer must carry some of the blame too. Of his seven biggest investments (Maguire, AWB, Fernandes, Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, Van de Beek) only one has left an enduring positive imprint on the squad.
Honestly, given how AVBesque Amorim is so far, I wouldn't be in a hurry to open the pursestrings for him. And not sure I would be even if he were looking promising.
I think you'd be in a better place a year from now if you focused on making cheap shrewd signings that can consolidate a top half finish and could have a squad role in a top four challenging team. Reduce and flatten the wage bill, offload those who don't actually want to be here and focus on next season being the kind of team Villa, Forest and Bournemouth are - A team that can become more than the sum of its parts where team dynamics accentuate player strengths, rather than a team reliant on playing to the strengths/compensating for the weaknesses of its best players.
In other words, getting in system players rather the "Great" players.
That's something that can actually be built on and evolved as opposed to what you are now and have been for a long time.
Honestly think someone like Traore could be a shrewd signing. Not as a starter, but he's cheap and could be someone who excels in a needed tactical function (ball carry out wide) and forces the opposition to consider him, regardless of how tame his end product is.
The only place I'd consider deviating from that is up front if the right player is available - Osimhen, Gyokeres. Right now, Højlund is just too awful to persist with and that's one position where marginals can really translate to points on the board.
Honestly, given how AVBesque Amorim is so far, I wouldn't be in a hurry to open the pursestrings for him. And not sure I would be even if he were looking promising.
I think you'd be in a better place a year from now if you focused on making cheap shrewd signings that can consolidate a top half finish and could have a squad role in a top four challenging team. Reduce and flatten the wage bill, offload those who don't actually want to be here and focus on next season being the kind of team Villa, Forest and Bournemouth are - A team that can become more than the sum of its parts where team dynamics accentuate player strengths, rather than a team reliant on playing to the strengths/compensating for the weaknesses of its best players.
In other words, getting in system players rather the "Great" players.
That's something that can actually be built on and evolved as opposed to what you are now and have been for a long time.
Honestly think someone like Traore could be a shrewd signing. Not as a starter, but he's cheap and could be someone who excels in a needed tactical function (ball carry out wide) and forces the opposition to consider him, regardless of how tame his end product is.
The only place I'd consider deviating from that is up front if the right player is available - Osimhen, Gyokeres. Right now, Højlund is just too awful to persist with and that's one position where marginals can really translate to points on the board.
The problem with selling a player like Hoijlund is that we don't just get the money we sell him for. We bought him for around 60 and will be paying chunks of that over his contract. So if we owe 30 million on him (simple numbers just to make the point) then selling him for 30 wouldn't actually net us any money. We'd lose the player and not have the money to replace them.
This is probably why clubs don't sell players that fans insist simply should be sold. I often see requests to ditch players within a year or two but they never seem to consider that Ed haven't just bought the players outright, what we sell them for will likely have some or all of the amount depleted with the transfer owed. If we pay 15 mill per year for Hoijlund then selling him for 30 now doesn't give us 30 to spend. It gives us 15 at best but then we have to consider the 15 still due the next year, a year in which we wouldn't get a transfer fee at all. So we'd be at an instant negative.
Football manager and fifa have over simplified this process for obvious reasons, so people treat it as a very simple "in vs out" but it isn't.
There's literally a post on this page that does this.
"sell x for 200 million, buy y for 300 million, overlap spend = 100 and the squad is revamped"
None of us know the accounts, we're dealing with scraps of 'reports' about it really and I think we cause a lot of our own frustrations by assuming the real life market, filled with actual people, agendas, emotions etc etc all jsjt works the same as fifa. Want to sell Dalot? Just put him on the 'list' for 35 mill! Someone will certainly buy him because clubs are programmed to check the transfer list and look to buy whoever is on it.
Players aren't a packet of polos. You can't just sell them because you want to. Equally, you can't just buy players because you want them and have the finances. You don't jsjt pick the right options in the conversation and unlock a high morale rating that makes them want to come to the club.
Antony, for example, will surely be a huge loss. If we sell him for 20 then that's not even what he has left, we'd effectively then be paying to actually sell him because the 20 we receive would be swallowed up in his outstanding payments but there would still be 40 (or however much it is) left. You don't just bank that 20 mill and get to use it the same day on a new player.
I imagine players like Antony will be a huge headache to get rid of in a manner that means we get to use all or most of the money we actually receive for them.
This is why moving on academy payers is pure profit. You actually do bank the money you get for them. I'd expect it to be similar with players who have passed their initial contract length - the likes of Dalot, for example. Probably wouldn't have anything outstanding because we bought him more than 5 years ago.
Long story short, I think we frustrate ourselves by over simplifying this process and then getting mad that those at the club aren't following this clearly very common sense, easy approach. Most fans of most clubs complain that their owners/managers are awful/incompetent/non football people/greedy.
Maybe football club owners are just typically this way. Seems strange though that so many different people can be smart enough to make millions or billions but then are incompetent children when it comes to the basics of a football club. Or maybe it's just harder than we give it credit for?
I'd love to understand what position we're actually in, I'd love to know enough to be able to make a single post that shows how the football club can just turn it all around, lots of other fans are clearly so well informed that they do this daily.
I'd love for a few of our super football club running fans to stop wasting their amazing knowledge and skills and get to work at the club. Then they could fix us instead of telling all of us underlings on the Caf how it can be done.
Get in touch with the club lads, show them your post history, they'll see that you're obviously well clued up and have such a clear vision of how to fix things that they'll surely get you working there in some capacity? Not a chance they'd pee themselves laughing at how ill informed and delusional the average post is, is there?
If you buy a house for 100k on a 10 year mortgage, you pay 20k of it off over 2 years and then sell it for 50k, how much money do you think you carry over to spend on the next one? Do you get to just take that 50k you sold it for and put it all into a new house? No. You owe 80k still, so by selling your house you're now homeless and owe 30k before you even think about money to buy a new one - Sancho, Antony, Casemiro etc
If you'd paid that house off however or simply built it yourself, you'd have all of that money - Dalot, Mainoo, Garnacho.
But we'll keep over simplifying it all into in vs out with 3 or 4 squad lists set out in a formation which shows what players we then have for each position and getting mad because the idiots running clubs don't follow this blatantly fool proof method of changing the entire squad. It really is that easy.
This is all about book value, ie PSR.
I'd imagine cash flow is actually a more pressing concern for you atm.
Interested to hear peoples thoughts on what Premier League or Championship players you think would make good targets, either for starting xi or to improve the squad. Obviously I dont mean Rodri or Haaland, I mean players we could conceivably go for with a budget of around 150m post sales.
For me, these names would be at least worth exploring, but I cant claim to have seen each enough.
Genuine Quality in my opinion
Dejan Kulusevski
Murillo
Morgan Gibbs-White
Antoine Semenyo
Mateus Cunha
Potentially Good/Risky
Omari Hutchinson
Liam Delap
Tyler Dibling
Dean Huijsen
Jean Phillipe Mateta
For me, these names would be at least worth exploring, but I cant claim to have seen each enough.
Genuine Quality in my opinion
Dejan Kulusevski
Murillo
Morgan Gibbs-White
Antoine Semenyo
Mateus Cunha
Potentially Good/Risky
Omari Hutchinson
Liam Delap
Tyler Dibling
Dean Huijsen
Jean Phillipe Mateta
Mateus Fernandes at Southampton or Marcelino Nuñez at Norwich would be two good options at CM you could add.
Nuñez in particular reminds me a bit of Ugarte with his dog-like tackling but with more creativity and consistent ability on the ball.
Kulusevski, Gibbs White and Murillo will be outside our budget, Forest paid around 40 mill for Gibbs White for instance they will not be selling for less than 70 especially if they have a CL space.
Semenyo is a wide attacker I don't see him fitting at WB, Cunha is interesting probably go to a CL team they'll all be sniffing around him
I’d take Hutchinson and Dibling. they should be fairly easy to get aswell as both there teams will most likely be relegated this year. The top list seems very expensive and we won’t be able to afford them.
The second d list are probably more realistic signings than the first. Pretty much everyone on that list would be a good addition for us though.
There is also Fernandes at Southampton and El Khannouss at Leicester. In the Championship Rigg and Bellingham from Sunderland and Charles at Sheffield Wednesday on loan from Southampton.
We desperately need to unearth a few players who don’t cost over 50m as we have a lot of problems to solve, a thin squad and limited funds.
new striker wont make a blind bit of difference all else being equal since we dont create any chances. not sure a 17 year old will change that very reliably.
Keep in mind just because someone is sold for a particular price doesn't mean we get all those proceeds. Often you may have to pay off the player to get them to accept a smaller deal or to forego free agency (we did this with AWB and McT this summer).
Rashford probably goes on something like £200k a week if he goes to Villa. Since he's currently on £300k a week and has 3 years left on his deal, that means we need to give him £15M as a bonus to get him to accept his smaller contract. So we only end up keeping £25M of the £40M transfer fee.
TL;DR a portion of the transfer fee often gets funneled to the player themselves if they're overpaid. You can't assume it all goes to the club. I wouldn't worry much about Rash + Antony bringing us a ton of cash; it's probably fairly minimal in the end. The bigger relief would be freeing us from their massive wages.
- Matheus Cunha: 12 non-penalty goals in the league this season, trailing only Salah and Mbeumo for non center forwards. A player in his prime (we have exactly zero forwards in their prime) and versatile to boot, with a reasonable release clause (approximately £60 million). Makes all sorts of sense.
- Bryan Mbeumo: should be a target for next summer (when his contract at Brentford expires), not this summer. Similar profile to Cunha in terms of production and being very much in his prime. Mbeumo and Amad for the right flank would give us the strength in the depth we've lacked for quite a while.
- Dean Huijsen: the likes of Maguire and De Ligt are unable to perform at a consistently good level in high lines, they have shown that in recent years and even this year. Release clause of £50 million is on the higher side for someone who is still rather unproven, but he's a major talent and boasts a lot of encouraging technical and physical qualities. If we don't sign him, some other big club will (maybe even a rival, to make matters worse).
- Bilal El Khannouss: there's something really mesmerizing about him and the way he moves, and he's taken to the Premier League like a duck to water. Leicester might be forced to sell him if they are relegated, and the price is unlikely to be exorbitant. Another versatile operator who could line up as a No. 10 or as the advanced No. 8 in a 4—3—3 who links up play behind the forward, and make Bruno surplus to requirements in due time.
We won’t be shopping in England this summer - too expensive.
Dorgu was £25m and on £40k a week. Thats the level we will be shopping at. Got to find those diamonds in the rough.
We need some decent scouting for once of players able to fit the system and to be young and hungry.
The era of the overpaid big time charlies is over….just to get them off the books now.
Reckon that there will be a great emphasis on getting some of our academy players adapting to the new system way quicker than some of the existing first teamers.
Dorgu was £25m and on £40k a week. Thats the level we will be shopping at. Got to find those diamonds in the rough.
We need some decent scouting for once of players able to fit the system and to be young and hungry.
The era of the overpaid big time charlies is over….just to get them off the books now.
Reckon that there will be a great emphasis on getting some of our academy players adapting to the new system way quicker than some of the existing first teamers.
What do you mean by major doubt exactly?
Mbeumo contract ends in 2027 as there is an option to extend for another year I believe
Yes, you are absolutely right.
Checked on Transfermarkt, and Brentford do indeed reserve the right to extend his current contract by a year!
Could still be an option for next summer, as long as Brentford's demands are reasonable (for a player with just 1 year on his contract).
Over the next couple of seasons, we should ideally try to reach a point where we have 4-5 productive forwards (like Liverpool in recent times with Salah (cut above the rest), Díaz, Gakpo, Jota), and someone like him could be integral to that.
Unless we surprise everyone and win a cup, no europe at least means a smaller squad can be carried.
Part of me thinks we should be careful about drilling out any more wingers, as we will need some when we're inevitably back to 4-3-3 by autumn 2025, whether it's under Amorim or the new manager!
Part of me thinks we should be careful about drilling out any more wingers, as we will need some when we're inevitably back to 4-3-3 by autumn 2025, whether it's under Amorim or the new manager!
I feel I might be alone on this, but over the past two games I have seen the results of time on the training pitch coming out in the performances, with hints of an actual playing style. On the few occasions when we won the ball in midfield you saw Dorgu being released, and the resultant chances were promising. They were the kind of opportunities we saw a lot at Sporting – wingbacks released down the side with a high xG ball across for Gyokeres to slot in.
When I see that, I “get” the plan: wingbacks operating up and down, holding width, creating a defensive 5 without the ball, and when in possession, pushing the opposition’s line back, thereby creating classic wing play opportunities and forcing space in midfield. On paper, that makes sense.
In reality, it's a mess. On the few occasions we won the ball in midfield, more than a couple of instances were the result of scrappy play that fortunately gifted us the ball. When we started to look decent from the 60th minute onward, it was because Bruno had been dropped into midfield to win that battle, and because Moyes had Everton sit off in that manner when he wants to protect a result. Right now, we don't have the men to win that midfield battle, which I feel is why we always look like we're being bullied. Bruno is not a long-term option there because you want him in the 10—and he's also getting on.
Wingbacks are the other issue. Dorgu—yay, I'll come back to him in a bit—but you need more. Having one attacking and one defensive wingback makes sense when you're up against a bigger team or protecting a result, but against most opposition, you want the option to deploy two proper attacking wingers in that role. At the moment—and I fear for the rest of the season—a lot of our attacking threat will be down to Dorgu.
Finally, the striker. Oof. You need a proper “danger man” in that role, someone top quality whom the opposition is scared of facing. He should be comfortable receiving a low ball at his feet from the defense, bringing down a high ball from the keeper, turning a running ball, laying it off to a runner, making a run in behind, and finishing inside the box. And yeah, we don't have that at the moment. So we have no one to tap the ball in or head it in when it comes in from the wingbacks, no one to lay off a direct ball from the keeper when we're being pressed, and no one to take the ball and turn when a line-breaking pass arrives from the defense.
Our defensive options are also a concern, though not as worrisome. In my eyes, it's the big gamble of this system that your defenders are expected to be your playmakers. They have to receive the ball, hold out against the press, and then patiently find that next key pass. Ideally, it's a really clean ball into a packed midfield that allows a quality 6 to turn and release the wingbacks. If the opposition has choked that space, then you're threading a key pass to the 10s, who can then turn and run at an outnumbered opposition backline. If the 10s aren't free, then you send it further into the 9. Finally, if the entire centre of the pitch is flooded with the opposition, you rely on your wingbacks to create space by flanking the opposition. That pass will more than likely require you to work around the wide opposition attackers who are trying to cut the passing lane while pressing simultaneously.
De Ligt and Maguire can't do this. Mazroui can to an extent, Martinez absolutely can, Yoro shows promise, but Maguire and De Ligt cannot. There's a general strategic concern about putting so much responsibility on the defenders. I learned my football in the '90s—defenders defend. You get the ball and pass it to someone who can play. Does the market have enough of what we need at the required quality?
All this means, at the moment—well, you can see it, right?—if this is what we're going for, there's a lot to do. Not one transfer window, maybe not even three. So how are they going to equip Amorim to put his plan into place?
A small note before I move on to potential solutions: I want to see this working. It makes sense to me, and I can envision it producing exciting, dominating, winning football—the likes of which no manager we've had since Fergie has attempted. If we're in the midst of the great, painful burn-it-down-and-rebuild phase that most of us have been screaming for since Fergie left, this strategy is as worthy of the pain as any other I can imagine.
If it works.
What do we need in theory, then? You need more attacking wingbacks who might as well be wingers—athletes who can run the touchline for 90 minutes, continuously up and down. Antonio fecking Valencia—get sperm samples from him and start breeding them now. The general shift to a 4-3-3 over the past two decades has bred inside forwards who will press but won't get up and down like the old-school 4-4-2 wingers used to. Beckham, for example, was not only the greatest crosser of the ball to ever play the game but also a tireless runner. Garnacho is of the modern type, perfect for a 4-3-3, but he doesn't have that selfless mentality to run up and down for 90 minutes.
Dorgu is a fantastic start and should give us all a little hope that the new recruitment setup knows what they are doing. Leon, the kid we've bought for the summer, looks the part—so, fingers crossed for him. We could arguably do with one more. The encouraging thing about filling this position is that it's not in high demand among many teams, and the profile is not complex, so our transfer team should be able to navigate this requirement without massive, budget-breaking outlays.
Defense is more uncertain, but still not nightmare territory. Maguire and De Ligt are your central options, where we just need one classic, no-nonsense defender. They're not world-class, but they can do the job for now. Outside centre-backs need recovery pace, passing ability, and playmaking skills—a tough ask since everyone wants one of them. Mazroui is not perfect but is solid. Martinez is real quality, albeit lacking in pace—hopefully his injury record improves. Yoro could be great and may have everything we need, and I'm happy to see Amorim managing him carefully. Next season is his season. Heaven and Kukonki are unknowns, but they certainly look like the type of players we need. With time, hopefully, we will see three players of the required profile emerge.
Midfield and striker are where this whole system could fall apart.
You need combative athletes who can cover space, win the midfield battle, receive in tight areas, and then either play the ball forward to the front three, out to the wingbacks, or drive into space. Moreover, you need several of them, as it's an exhausting role with a lot of physical contact. Ugarte has the fight in him but lacks playmaking ability. Bruno can fight, receive the ball, and play it, but he can't run into space—he should also be in the 10. Mainoo has that quality, but there are questions over his ability to cover ground and concerns regarding injuries. Eriksen and Casemiro need to be shipped out now, as their pace and energy are so poor that they're liabilities in midfield. Casemiro was the reason we got absolutely hammered in the first half yesterday and should be nothing more than a scapegoat for the rest of the season.
Finally, the striker. Hojlund lacks the physical maturity to beat defenders, the first touch to control dangerous balls at his feet, and the game awareness to be in the best positions. Maybe in time, but not now. Zirkzee can receive the ball and play with it, but, Christ, is he fecking slow—both on the ball, where he holds onto it for too long, and off it, where he rarely makes the right run. It was disgraceful how Bruno had to cover for him in the Tottenham game.
For all the negativity, I'm hopeful. Adam Crafton made a great point on Talk of the Devils the other day: that for all our purchases under Woodwood and Murtough, they bought players who "kept us in touching distance"—big quality outlays that covered the gap for now but didn't build towards anything. Mata, Di Maria, Zlatan, Pogba, Cavani, Ronaldo… where is the long-term Carrick replacement? Where is the second-contract striker or the stable centre-back partnership?
We are finally, finally in the rip-it-up-and-rebuild stage that we've needed since Fergie left. And Christ, is it painful. But this is what we need—not purchases that will “save” us now, but building around players who will mature in one to two years and perform for the four that follow. So Dorgu, Leon, Yoro, Heaven, and then the academy kids Collyer, Obi, and hopefully many more.
But the next moves are the most difficult—not just because of the profile we require, but also because we are totally broke. This whole Amorim project could fail if we can't get him what he needs.
We need another midfielder of quality. Who? I have no idea. It will be interesting to see if—and whom—we target in the summer.
Striker – I was happy to hear we tried for Osimhen in January, because that makes a lot of sense for now while we wait for Obi and Hojlund to mature. Zirkzee got to go for me—I like him, he's fun, and he belongs in a slower league. Picking up someone to just run off the front like Jonathan David might also be worth a look.
And then one more wingback. Considering what I was saying about it being a buyer's market for wingbacks, EUR50m for Quenda feels like an unnecessary risk—but who knows, maybe the kid is the shit.
And we need a new goalkeeper. Onana ain't it.
There's a lot of pressure on recruitment to get it right. But when isn't there? What's unique about us compared to other clubs is how much of a car crash we have to unpack before we can operate with the freedom to buy whoever we want. Casemiro, Eriksen, Zirkzee, Shaw, and Mount all need to go. Thank God Rashford and Anthony are performing—they might fetch some cash.
Call me foolish—I have hope. Dorgu, look to Dorgu. They've had one transfer window in this project, and they made a good move with the minuscule room they had to operate.
Amorim has shown competency at Sporting. He's got the personality you need for this job; his football, if it comes together, will be good to watch, and he can work with kids. He lacks the experience that prevents you from making mistakes, and he'll make more. But hopefully, he learns from them.
The end of this season will be a “grin and bear it” situation. I don't think we have the energy in midfield for the FA Cup, but the slower pace of the Europa League may mean we can yet utilise Eriksen and Casemiro. The league's a write-off. Go to the gym on weekends—I recommend the stair machine for shedding any remaining Christmas weight.
Thanks for reading.
When I see that, I “get” the plan: wingbacks operating up and down, holding width, creating a defensive 5 without the ball, and when in possession, pushing the opposition’s line back, thereby creating classic wing play opportunities and forcing space in midfield. On paper, that makes sense.
In reality, it's a mess. On the few occasions we won the ball in midfield, more than a couple of instances were the result of scrappy play that fortunately gifted us the ball. When we started to look decent from the 60th minute onward, it was because Bruno had been dropped into midfield to win that battle, and because Moyes had Everton sit off in that manner when he wants to protect a result. Right now, we don't have the men to win that midfield battle, which I feel is why we always look like we're being bullied. Bruno is not a long-term option there because you want him in the 10—and he's also getting on.
Wingbacks are the other issue. Dorgu—yay, I'll come back to him in a bit—but you need more. Having one attacking and one defensive wingback makes sense when you're up against a bigger team or protecting a result, but against most opposition, you want the option to deploy two proper attacking wingers in that role. At the moment—and I fear for the rest of the season—a lot of our attacking threat will be down to Dorgu.
Finally, the striker. Oof. You need a proper “danger man” in that role, someone top quality whom the opposition is scared of facing. He should be comfortable receiving a low ball at his feet from the defense, bringing down a high ball from the keeper, turning a running ball, laying it off to a runner, making a run in behind, and finishing inside the box. And yeah, we don't have that at the moment. So we have no one to tap the ball in or head it in when it comes in from the wingbacks, no one to lay off a direct ball from the keeper when we're being pressed, and no one to take the ball and turn when a line-breaking pass arrives from the defense.
Our defensive options are also a concern, though not as worrisome. In my eyes, it's the big gamble of this system that your defenders are expected to be your playmakers. They have to receive the ball, hold out against the press, and then patiently find that next key pass. Ideally, it's a really clean ball into a packed midfield that allows a quality 6 to turn and release the wingbacks. If the opposition has choked that space, then you're threading a key pass to the 10s, who can then turn and run at an outnumbered opposition backline. If the 10s aren't free, then you send it further into the 9. Finally, if the entire centre of the pitch is flooded with the opposition, you rely on your wingbacks to create space by flanking the opposition. That pass will more than likely require you to work around the wide opposition attackers who are trying to cut the passing lane while pressing simultaneously.
De Ligt and Maguire can't do this. Mazroui can to an extent, Martinez absolutely can, Yoro shows promise, but Maguire and De Ligt cannot. There's a general strategic concern about putting so much responsibility on the defenders. I learned my football in the '90s—defenders defend. You get the ball and pass it to someone who can play. Does the market have enough of what we need at the required quality?
All this means, at the moment—well, you can see it, right?—if this is what we're going for, there's a lot to do. Not one transfer window, maybe not even three. So how are they going to equip Amorim to put his plan into place?
A small note before I move on to potential solutions: I want to see this working. It makes sense to me, and I can envision it producing exciting, dominating, winning football—the likes of which no manager we've had since Fergie has attempted. If we're in the midst of the great, painful burn-it-down-and-rebuild phase that most of us have been screaming for since Fergie left, this strategy is as worthy of the pain as any other I can imagine.
If it works.
What do we need in theory, then? You need more attacking wingbacks who might as well be wingers—athletes who can run the touchline for 90 minutes, continuously up and down. Antonio fecking Valencia—get sperm samples from him and start breeding them now. The general shift to a 4-3-3 over the past two decades has bred inside forwards who will press but won't get up and down like the old-school 4-4-2 wingers used to. Beckham, for example, was not only the greatest crosser of the ball to ever play the game but also a tireless runner. Garnacho is of the modern type, perfect for a 4-3-3, but he doesn't have that selfless mentality to run up and down for 90 minutes.
Dorgu is a fantastic start and should give us all a little hope that the new recruitment setup knows what they are doing. Leon, the kid we've bought for the summer, looks the part—so, fingers crossed for him. We could arguably do with one more. The encouraging thing about filling this position is that it's not in high demand among many teams, and the profile is not complex, so our transfer team should be able to navigate this requirement without massive, budget-breaking outlays.
Defense is more uncertain, but still not nightmare territory. Maguire and De Ligt are your central options, where we just need one classic, no-nonsense defender. They're not world-class, but they can do the job for now. Outside centre-backs need recovery pace, passing ability, and playmaking skills—a tough ask since everyone wants one of them. Mazroui is not perfect but is solid. Martinez is real quality, albeit lacking in pace—hopefully his injury record improves. Yoro could be great and may have everything we need, and I'm happy to see Amorim managing him carefully. Next season is his season. Heaven and Kukonki are unknowns, but they certainly look like the type of players we need. With time, hopefully, we will see three players of the required profile emerge.
Midfield and striker are where this whole system could fall apart.
You need combative athletes who can cover space, win the midfield battle, receive in tight areas, and then either play the ball forward to the front three, out to the wingbacks, or drive into space. Moreover, you need several of them, as it's an exhausting role with a lot of physical contact. Ugarte has the fight in him but lacks playmaking ability. Bruno can fight, receive the ball, and play it, but he can't run into space—he should also be in the 10. Mainoo has that quality, but there are questions over his ability to cover ground and concerns regarding injuries. Eriksen and Casemiro need to be shipped out now, as their pace and energy are so poor that they're liabilities in midfield. Casemiro was the reason we got absolutely hammered in the first half yesterday and should be nothing more than a scapegoat for the rest of the season.
Finally, the striker. Hojlund lacks the physical maturity to beat defenders, the first touch to control dangerous balls at his feet, and the game awareness to be in the best positions. Maybe in time, but not now. Zirkzee can receive the ball and play with it, but, Christ, is he fecking slow—both on the ball, where he holds onto it for too long, and off it, where he rarely makes the right run. It was disgraceful how Bruno had to cover for him in the Tottenham game.
For all the negativity, I'm hopeful. Adam Crafton made a great point on Talk of the Devils the other day: that for all our purchases under Woodwood and Murtough, they bought players who "kept us in touching distance"—big quality outlays that covered the gap for now but didn't build towards anything. Mata, Di Maria, Zlatan, Pogba, Cavani, Ronaldo… where is the long-term Carrick replacement? Where is the second-contract striker or the stable centre-back partnership?
We are finally, finally in the rip-it-up-and-rebuild stage that we've needed since Fergie left. And Christ, is it painful. But this is what we need—not purchases that will “save” us now, but building around players who will mature in one to two years and perform for the four that follow. So Dorgu, Leon, Yoro, Heaven, and then the academy kids Collyer, Obi, and hopefully many more.
But the next moves are the most difficult—not just because of the profile we require, but also because we are totally broke. This whole Amorim project could fail if we can't get him what he needs.
We need another midfielder of quality. Who? I have no idea. It will be interesting to see if—and whom—we target in the summer.
Striker – I was happy to hear we tried for Osimhen in January, because that makes a lot of sense for now while we wait for Obi and Hojlund to mature. Zirkzee got to go for me—I like him, he's fun, and he belongs in a slower league. Picking up someone to just run off the front like Jonathan David might also be worth a look.
And then one more wingback. Considering what I was saying about it being a buyer's market for wingbacks, EUR50m for Quenda feels like an unnecessary risk—but who knows, maybe the kid is the shit.
And we need a new goalkeeper. Onana ain't it.
There's a lot of pressure on recruitment to get it right. But when isn't there? What's unique about us compared to other clubs is how much of a car crash we have to unpack before we can operate with the freedom to buy whoever we want. Casemiro, Eriksen, Zirkzee, Shaw, and Mount all need to go. Thank God Rashford and Anthony are performing—they might fetch some cash.
Call me foolish—I have hope. Dorgu, look to Dorgu. They've had one transfer window in this project, and they made a good move with the minuscule room they had to operate.
Amorim has shown competency at Sporting. He's got the personality you need for this job; his football, if it comes together, will be good to watch, and he can work with kids. He lacks the experience that prevents you from making mistakes, and he'll make more. But hopefully, he learns from them.
The end of this season will be a “grin and bear it” situation. I don't think we have the energy in midfield for the FA Cup, but the slower pace of the Europa League may mean we can yet utilise Eriksen and Casemiro. The league's a write-off. Go to the gym on weekends—I recommend the stair machine for shedding any remaining Christmas weight.
Thanks for reading.
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I agree with that but some of the PL names mentioned might be more attainable.
The one i would be prepared to see us pay high for is gibbs-white. Absolutely the energy, attitude and ability we need right now.
For all the doom, selling sancho, rashford and hopefully a decent chunk of a Greenwood fee should give us some money to spend. There'll be some other lower fee exits too that take money from books and i wouldn't be surprised to see Antony on a season long loan in betis who'll pay a good chunk of his wages too.
Some post
fair play
I also saw positive signs v spurs and even yesterday
and I'm willing to take the pain for a couple of years too
This.
You compare Mount on 250,000 a week and a complete waste of space with Dorgu's who's on 40,000 and likely to prove a more worthwhile signing.
We will be scouting leagues around Europe and South America looking for similar players for a similar price. That's the only way we will bolster the squad enough with the funds we have available: by taking a Brighton style approach.
The likes of Mbuemo and Cunha who would no doubt interest us may ruin our chances of signing enough players to have anything like an overhaul.
Bravo
Nice to see someone on a similar wavelength. I had expected a better start under Amorim but like most, I underestimated how far away the current crop of players are from what Amorim needs. I can’t think of a single position where we have two players (a starter and a back-up) that suit Amorim’s ideal for that role.
With some patience and a few more Dorgu’s in the summer and I’m confident we’ll see a marked difference from what we’re seeing today.
He's be a decent shout but for his injury record.
Spending £65m on Bynoe-Gittens would be madness. There's no way he's worth that. Sancho was 10 times the player at Dortmund and he's been highly ineffective in a more athletic league.
the rebuilt will be painfully slow unless we get a full sale from the Glazers.....
would be genuinely exciting if we brought in a few young players, a decent striker and the likes of Obi, Heaven, Kone etc were able to perform well in squad roles. if we were showing progress in the system you could take the couple of years of overhaul
surely Ratcliffe has entered into this partnership with the Glazers with an eye on a full sale after a period though. maybe wishful thinking but with his awareness of the financials there must be something in place and we aren't planning to win the league by 2028 by cutting jobs.
would be genuinely exciting if we brought in a few young players, a decent striker and the likes of Obi, Heaven, Kone etc were able to perform well in squad roles. if we were showing progress in the system you could take the couple of years of overhaul
surely Ratcliffe has entered into this partnership with the Glazers with an eye on a full sale after a period though. maybe wishful thinking but with his awareness of the financials there must be something in place and we aren't planning to win the league by 2028 by cutting jobs.
Looks like we're definitely looking into the bargain bin for signings this summer. Have to spend big on the striker position for sure, need someone established there. The others we can get players who fit the characteristics needed but aren't very "proven" per say.
Need to be targeting the relegated clubs, championship and South America.
Need to be targeting the relegated clubs, championship and South America.
I think we also need to look at some free agents, Angel Gomes and Jonathan David would both be welcome additions if we're looking at saving money.
Hopefully we hear a few different names closer to the summer.
Feels like everyone being mentioned so far are the usual suspects...players currently doing well in the Prem and players the manager has worked with before.
United need to be a bit smarter than that.
Feels like everyone being mentioned so far are the usual suspects...players currently doing well in the Prem and players the manager has worked with before.
United need to be a bit smarter than that.
Som media are also saying this might be on.
I think we’ll sign 4 players in the summer to try and help Amorim shape up. Without European football I don’t think we’ll be able to get a lot of top quality players, so the focus will likely be younger players.
RWB: Quenda seems most likely at the moment.
CM: it really depends, I think Bruno is preferred deeper by Amorim, so someone to rotate would be ideal. Perhaps a Chris Rigg/Jobe Bellingham/Fernandes or another young midfielder would be good. It depends if we want a good passer or carrier, or both. Finding a young player who is great at both is difficult I imagine.
10: I think if we don’t sign a top striker we may try to go for Cunha. It’ll depend on what his options are though. I could see him being arrogant enough to think he’ll make the difference for us. No guarantee we get him. Otherwise we try and go for a younger player like Dibling.
ST: I think based on what Laurie Whitwell is saying, we’ll end up going for Delap. I quite like him though, really puts himself about and is a real handful.
I suspect that could be in the region of £175m if you get Cunha, if not, then likely around £150m or so without sales. It’ll certainly be an interesting summer.
RWB: Quenda seems most likely at the moment.
CM: it really depends, I think Bruno is preferred deeper by Amorim, so someone to rotate would be ideal. Perhaps a Chris Rigg/Jobe Bellingham/Fernandes or another young midfielder would be good. It depends if we want a good passer or carrier, or both. Finding a young player who is great at both is difficult I imagine.
10: I think if we don’t sign a top striker we may try to go for Cunha. It’ll depend on what his options are though. I could see him being arrogant enough to think he’ll make the difference for us. No guarantee we get him. Otherwise we try and go for a younger player like Dibling.
ST: I think based on what Laurie Whitwell is saying, we’ll end up going for Delap. I quite like him though, really puts himself about and is a real handful.
I suspect that could be in the region of £175m if you get Cunha, if not, then likely around £150m or so without sales. It’ll certainly be an interesting summer.
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Amorim needs to think wisely here. Chido, Kone and another youth player need to get proper game time between now and end of season in the league. A) they will have more energy and application than existing players and B) it will solve a huge headache for him if they prove themselves worthy of addition next season. We will only be buying kids anyway. Let's be smart about it. We're not getting relegated so league matches are a free hit. Take that opportunity as a free hit in the league is a luxury he will not enjoy again.
No more young promising players please. This isn't Participation United. Buy proven, buy prime.
Our problem was buying "proven" players and giving them massive contracts! We can't afford to buy anyone proven or prime this summer. It just won't happen
I don't think Kulusevski, Murillo, MGW are realistic given how much they'll likely cost.
Semenyo could be a viable option but where would he play in this system? Best suited as a wide forward in a 4-3-3, I think you'd be shoehorning him in as a #10 or wing-back in this system and there are better suited options.
Cunha would be a good option as the left-sided #10 and might be viable given his reported release clause.
Hutchinson - need to see more
Delap - I really like him but United arguably need a more experienced striker. Probably only an option if Hojlund leaves and he comes in with another CF
Dibling - depends on the cost, could be a good addition and one for the future but unlikely to make the immediate impact United need IMO.
Hujisen - looks class, potentially an option but would revolve around United making a lot of sales to afford as CB will be down the list of priorities
Mateta - good option I think considering his age, PL experience, profile and likely cost
Other PL targets worth a look at IMO:
- Bryan Mbeumo - probably a bit too expensive, but potentially could cost around the same as Cunha if Brentford don't play hardball. Would be great in the RAM slot I think.
- Mateus Fernandes - decent in a poor Southampton side, metrics don't look too bad and should develop further, could be a good rotation option in midfield where United desperately need reinforcement
- Joao Gomes - same as above really
- Antonee Robinson - perhaps unlikely given United already signed Dorgu but if Amorim sees him as somebody that can play on both sides, he might want another option on the left. He'd be relatively affordable and at an age where long-term wouldn't block the pathway for other prospects.
- Carlos Baleba - probably expensive but a very good option to play alongside Ugarte
- Mads Hermansen - unlikely unless United move on from Onana but if they do/can, he'd be an affordable option that could be a good fit