Amorim's Rebuild

We need an LWB in January badly. Miguel Gutierrez has a 30m release clause and is a quality player. Not sure why we haven’t been linked.

I’d also see if we can get Nkunku on loan in January to play the left 10 role.

Ultimately, we need a Striker, a left 10, two wing backs, an LCB and a midfielder
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
We need an LWB in January badly. Miguel Gutierrez has a 30m release clause and is a quality player. Not sure why we haven’t been linked.

I’d also see if we can get Nkunku on loan in January to play the left 10 role.

Ultimately, we need a Striker, a left 10, two wing backs, an LCB and a midfielder
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2 midfielders. At least.
 
If Rashford is sold, why not look at that young Spanish LW, Williams or something. Hard working, extremely talented....
 
ETH paid the price for not upgrading the squad after months of disaster performances. Now Amorim has a similar situation but the very start of it. His tenure will be decided by how he reshapes his team . If we look at next December and still being out played, then its either Amorim has failed our we as a club has failed.

And by Jan 12 or so, we would have done with Pool for the season and likely out of FA cup. Remaining 19 matches or so plus Europa should give Amorim enough time to try out things, players, tactics and be ready next season.
 
We need a team in place who have feet on the ground and can handle a high turnover. Many mention deadwood like Rashy, Casemiro, Eriksen, Lindelof and co should be sold. That's well and good but I can't see us making loads of money out of Casemiro. We need to find buyers for players who hasn't performed up to standards (ex Zirkzee) + players who are already showing early signs of decline/limits to their abilities (ex Martinez, Dalot etc). That's how a club can generate funds to buy new players
 
I feel like Amorin knows the players he wants to work with and will be keeping around & not for sale:

Onana
Maz
Yoro
De Ligt
Dalot (feck knows why)
Mainoo
Ugarte
Bruno
Amad
Hojland
Garnacho

I think everyone else is up for sale and rightly so.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The two signings that transformed them from also rans to title contenders (VVD and Allison) were both top class established players in their prime. More recently Diaz, Jota, McAllister and Sjobozlai would be a similar profile. Established quality players. The best player at their former club, at their peak as a footballer.

You need a mix in your squad and we’re desperately in need of some real quality in that 24-29 year old category. Defenders aside it’s insane that we’ve really only Bruno and - soon to be gone - Rashford of that age. In fact, I’d argue it’s the single biggest reason we’re such a flaky and inconsistent team.
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Whoscored list of those guys, just going by that critera at the top 5 leagues and adding Gyokeres since he fits the criteria and is banging them in for Sweden as well. I cut out Dwight McNeil at Everton because I just don't see him making a step up:

Gyokeres
Isak
Marmoush

Cunha
M'Beumo
Joao Pedro
Eze
Kudus
Kvara
Baena
Amoura (no idea who this is)

Zubimendi
Boudaoui (no idea who this is)

Gutierrez
Nuno Tavares
Antonee Robinson

Danso
Tuta (seen this guy twice I think? Technically doesn't qualify at the best player at his club but right age and it's not really his fault that Marmoush and Ekitike are tearing up the league up top, unless you think their threat makes playing CB and DM much easier, which maybe it does, I haven't seen Frankfurt much at all last season or this)

So if we did follow this model, let's say that's a summer of:

-Probably Gyokeres (Zirkzee loan to Italy to rebuild value?) or Marmoush, as I don't see Isak coming to us over Arsenal or PSG
-One of the #10/AMs not named Kvara (Rashford out) who I think would turn us down at the moment
-I doubt we can get Zubimendi so Boudaoui or we deviate here and sign a younger CM (Eriksen and Casemiro probably both out)
-One of the LBs (Malacia out I guess, or he gets one more year as we don't really have a backup LB until/if Amass or one of the other youngsters like Mantato emerges), all 3 seem expensive but not un-gettable.
-Danso or Tuta (Maguire off to Italy, probably Lindelof too, probably count Shaw as a 6th CB along with Yoro, Licha, De Ligt, Mazraoui and the signing)
 
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We need to get a #10 that scores goals. The finishing from out players is terrible, not just now under Amorim but also under ETH. When I think of the chances we missed in the West Ham and Crystal Palace games earlier this season it makes me sick. These are not the only 2 games in which our players missed big chances, I just gave those 2 as an example.

Speaking about our options in the #10 position in Amorim's system - Bruno's finishing is disastrous, just look at his big chances vs Bournemouth and Man City, Garnacho scored some goals this season but in general his shooting is shite and what are the alternatives on #10 position? When Mount is not injured (which is very rare) the only thing I see from him is pressing and nothing more, he has 0 attacking threat. Antony also "showed" what he can do on the #10 position vs Spurs in the cup a few days ago. Amad is the only normal option.

As I said we need a #10 that knows atleast to score a 1 v 1 which seems impossible for our attacking players.
 
lineup-builder.png

Only 5 players survive as starters and from this pic, I would put Mazraoui as RCB rotating with Yoro till he gets established and then covering other defensive areas.

Even Mainoo should not be a starter at this stage, so a starter CM. Maybe swap Davies for Mendes if we can't afford him now and get him cheaper later if he runs down his contract.

I would go for a number of sporting/ex-sporting players, for a reason, firstly they have the correct mentality and secondly they know the system, and can show rest of squad how it's done, and lastly these are quality players.

We can build squad from this base and add more players and (youth slowly) for competition.

The rest of current first teamers can be shipped out or sit on the bench. We should be aiming to sell players and raise at least 100m to help fund this circa 200m+ spend.
 
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A part of me wishes that we don't make it into any European cup. It would be an opportunity for us to regroup, to shed as many players as possible and to make every penny count. Honestly I'd go for a clean sweep at this point. We shouldn't only get rid of the deadwood but also of players who are in decline (ex Martinez, Bruno), the crocks (Mount, Malacia and Shaw) and those who aren't good enough (ex Zirkzee and the 2nd gk). Let's build a squad that is athletic, that fight for the ball and would give its soul to the team
 
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This has probably been mentioned multiple times here. But the decisions and transfers that had been made during ETHs time here, has set us back at least a couple of years it feels like.

There's not 1 player I would keep that was brought in during his time as our manager(before this summer, not counting Zirkzee because he might be worse than Antony) and also because of the money that he and the club spent, we don't have enough to actually build the team with better players immediately, but have to rely on getting money back for players who are not good enough.
 
gulli_G said:
Only 5 players survive as starters and from this pic, I would put Mazraoui as RCB rotating with Yoro till he gets established and then covering other defensive areas.

Even Mainoo should not be a starter at this stage, so a starter CM. Maybe swap Davies for Mendes if we can't afford him now and get him cheaper later if he runs down his contract.

I would go for a number of sporting/ex-sporting players, for a reason, firstly they have the correct mentality and secondly they know the system, and can show rest of squad how it's done, and lastly these are quality players.

We can build squad from this base and add more players and (youth slowly) for competition.

The rest of current first teamers can be shipped out orr sit on the bench. We should be aiming to sell players and raise at least 100m to help fund this circa 200m+ spend.
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Lovely team! The most difficult to get would maybe be Mendes?

Kvaratskhelia just has that old good kind of united aura. Would absolutely love to see him here!
 
Invictus said:
Frimpong is really small though. 170 cm at most, at the very edge of where height becomes an active detriment at Premier League level and a “red flag” of sorts. Of course, height is but one aspect and isn't everything in a sport where low center of gravity players can excel at even the highest rungs, but we already have a critical mass of diminuitive players in Martínez, Malacia, Amad and the likes, which can be a bit of an issue and something well-coached oppositions seek to exploit. It's not a coincidence that the best Premier League teams in recent years have been relatively tall and robust, with recruitment departments and managers making a concerted effort to finetune the physical profiles of their squads. Using Manchester City's treble winning team as an example, only three regulars were below 180 cm: Foden, Alvarez and Bernardo. The defensive half in particular was quite imposing, comprised of the likes of Rodri, Stones, Akanji, Dias, Walker and Aké (the shortest of the bunch at 180cm). Even this season, the league leaders do not have a single regular below 173 cm.
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Good points. For the height and home grown aspect, Branthwaite and Delap would probably be targets but Branthwaite has been underwhelming this season and both would be very expensive to the point where we could probably get better for cheaper – I think you mentioned the Sporting CBs in the Branthwaite thread. Not as good in the air but better suited for Amorim.

I don't think Martinez or Malacia will be here (or in the first team at least) for much longer.
 
gulli_G said:
lineup-builder.png

Only 5 players survive as starters and from this pic, I would put Mazraoui as RCB rotating with Yoro till he gets established and then covering other defensive areas.

Even Mainoo should not be a starter at this stage, so a starter CM. Maybe swap Davies for Mendes if we can't afford him now and get him cheaper later if he runs down his contract.

I would go for a number of sporting/ex-sporting players, for a reason, firstly they have the correct mentality and secondly they know the system, and can show rest of squad how it's done, and lastly these are quality players.

We can build squad from this base and add more players and (youth slowly) for competition.

The rest of current first teamers can be shipped out or sit on the bench. We should be aiming to sell players and raise at least 100m to help fund this circa 200m+ spend.
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I would instantly take out De Ligt.
I would want a commanding, dominant ball player cb in that position and he's none of them.
He's a good backup option and nothing more.

I would love to see Kvaratskhelia here though.
 
Seen some posts about Enciso at Brighton making some cryptic moves on socials suggesting he is possibly on the move. Prior to his big injury a season or so ago he was a really top prospect and he could be a really interesting option as a RAM in this system. Fast, tenacious, good ball carrier, decent long shot, lots of room to become a top player.

He’s not been a starter u see Huezeler, so if he’s available on the ‘cheap’ or as a loan with an option in the summer, he could be an interesting option. Plus with Diego Leon coming in the summer already, maybe having a compatriot around could help him settle too.
 
I'm seeing quite a few posts suggesting that we sign the likes of Gyökeres, Kvaratskhelia and I've even seen Wirtz and Isak put forward. I have to ask at this point if any of these are feasible from a financial perspective?

I'm not very well-informed on the financial front so I admit, I do treat the FFP stories with perhaps more credibility than they're due, but each of those names would probably command nine-figure fees and some people have suggested we sign more than one of them. It doesn't sound very plausible to me.
 
Given the bulk of our current squad have been here for a while - it's painful to determine who will survive long term. With form/confidence/age against a lot it's a mammoth task.

The problem is - we have been sub par for years. Absolute years. We don't have any leaders or winners in our squad, bar Casemiro but he hasn't shown anything like elite mentality since he joined so. We have a squad of over paid, underperforming wasters who simply have never hit the heights that we want to get too.

We have no characters, no desire and this crop as a collective are so used to abject failure they shy away from the hard work. We are weak in every area.

So how does Amorin re-build this?

Overhaul. Big changes.

Whose overseen the worst periods in our recent history as captain? Bruno. Get him gone.

Cultural reset only happens if applied correctly - you cannot turn this squad into elite mentality monsters. Some will prove worth and stay and contribute, but the bulk has to be shipped out and transitioned.

The hardest thing about this as fans is that we tried to do this under Ole, under Ten Hag and so on. The behind the scenes looks to be in better shape than it has been, but big cultural resets take years. It takes effort, it takes dedication.

From a playing squad perspective Amorin has to be brutal.

Bruno, Casemiro, Shaw, Rashford, Onana need to be high profile causalities and the dawn of a new era. You cannot take passengers on a reset and you cannot accept sub par performances on a regular basis. Some battles need to be picked, but some you can make a statement. Those on mega wages who have proven over time they are not dependable need to go.

I thought ETH has a tough job when he walked through the door, but Amorin has it way harder.
 
Anyone thinking we're getting Wirtz is off their proverbial rocker! We'll be fortunate to finish top half at this rate and Wirtz would surely be demanding CL football to move.

I'd look at rebuilding the WB positions as they're clearly pivotal for Amorim's set-up. Alvaro Fernandez at +/- €15m, try to convince Davies to come on a FT, and likewise see if Frimpong is available / interested. This way we could look to move Shaw, Malacia & Dalot on with Frimpong / Mazraoui at RWB and Davies / Fernandez at LWB with Amass coming through. This way we could also look at Mazraoui as RCB too on occasion as he seems to do OK there.

------------------------Onana
----------Yoro--------De Ligt----------Martinez
Mazraoui-----Ugarte-----Mainoo-----Davies

------------------------Onana
----------Mazraoui--------De Ligt----------Yoro
Frimpong-----Ugarte-----Mainoo-----Fernandez

Then see if we can find a reliable goalscorer.
 
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The next two windows don't look at a player who isn't 23-27 years of age.

Whatever their ability level we need lads in their prime.
 
People putting players like Wirtz and Kvar in their predicted line ups is crazy, there is no way we are getting players like that. Wirtz is easily 100m probs looking at 120m for his incredible talent and he will want to go to a top top club like Bayern, Real, City, Liverpool (yuck) or maybe a sugar daddy club like Chelsea.

I think we need to be looking at smaller clubs who have done well with players who are around 23/24 and looking for success. Girona, Bournemouth, RB, Sporting are good examples of this.
 
We won't be getting Wirtz. He's way out of our reach atm. But we can compete for someone like Kvaratskhelia. Who I think would be super here.
 
I don't really have as much of an idea as to who we should be trying to sign in January & in the Summer, but the positions are pretty clear in Wing Back and Striker as fundamental pieces in being able to execute Amorim's style any time soon. I'm sure we will have financial constraints, so the pending Rashford sale if we can do it is going to be how we can fix some of these issues. However, the January window is notoriously difficult to do great business in.

I keep looking at our squad, and the current contracts of some players which do make it easier to suggest which players will be gone sooner rather than later:

Heaton
Evans
Lindelof
Eriksen
Maguire*

The above all have contracts ending June 30, 2025, with the caveat that Maguire has an option of an extra year which isn't purely the club's option to trigger. I'm not sure if Maguire will seek a new challenge to try and get into the England squad, or if he'll choose to stay and fight for his place for another year. Realistically, I don't think we should be paying him top 5 CB in the league wages when he could technically be 4th or 5th choice CB next season. For me, he effectively has one role in the team now which is playing in the middle of a back three and is probably behind De Ligt in that role.

Due to injuries and quite often individual error, you could argue we need to sign a CB if we lose two. However, it may also be the case that Mazraoui and Shaw are seen more as RCB and LCB long-term (although relying on Shaw's fitness is not a good idea) by Amorim. He seems to like players with flexibility so he can choose the right option for the right game, he may think that Mazraoui, Yoro, De Ligt, Maguire, Martinez, and Shaw is enough cover at CB, with perhaps a youth player coming through is enough for next season as long we he can bolster other areas of the pitch.

Antony
Casemiro

I think these two are players that he'd love to shift, particularly Antony, if possible. I wish he'd try Antony as a LWB in a game when he needs to rest someone, as it's the only position I can see him having any chance in for the rest of his time here, but alas. While this isn't something Amorim will think about too much compared to the board and us fans, they are just on silly money. Over £500k a week between them, which is inheritably limiting Amorim's potential to have other players in the squad as that salary should be able to account for 3-5 players instead of two. Rashford is also in this boat now, but I didn't list him as it seems likely he will be offloaded in January in some way.

Players such as Malacia, Zirkzee, and of course Shaw are ones I think Amorim hasn't quite made his mind up on yet, but the two left backs have contracts to 26/27 and Zirkzee is a new signing who I would be surprised to see moved on so soon.

For argument's sake, let's say we do actually get rid of the players with ending contracts (bar Maguire) and the remaining players on over £200k, we're be left with:

GK: Onana, Bayindir, Vitek
DF: Mazraoui, Dalot, Yoro, De Ligt, Maguire, Martinez, Shaw, Malacia
MF: Mainoo, Ugarte
AM: Bruno, Mount, Amad
FW: Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho

We'll have to find the funds to buy at least four players most likely. There's probably a world where Garnacho is sold out of necessity as he's one of the few we can make a sizable profit on, but I do still think there's a player in there who could go on to be one of the top 15-20 in the world which would be sad to see happen at a different club. But I do think we just don't have the right environment at the moment to help young players excel.
 
Havak said:
Maguire*

The above all have contracts ending June 30, 2025, with the caveat that Maguire has an option of an extra year which isn't purely the club's option to trigger.
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Maybe I'm being slow but I'm not sure I understand a +1 contract structure where either party can trigger the extra year. In that case I don't see how a 5+1 contract would be any different from a 6 year contract, as in both cases it effectively requires the agreement of both parties for the contract to end after 5 years.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point?
 
witchtrials said:
Maybe I'm being slow but I'm not sure I understand a +1 contract structure where either party can trigger the extra year. In that case I don't see how a 5+1 contract would be any different from a 6 year contract, as in both cases it effectively requires the agreement of both parties for the contract to end after 5 years.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point?
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I don't fully understand it myself, but a lot of our players have a +1 option that can be triggered by the club only. From what I've read, this isn't the case for Maguire's? I imagine that means it's his choice to activate it, but maybe that isn't true.
 
Havak said:
I don't fully understand it myself, but a lot of our players have a +1 option that can be triggered by the club only. From what I've read, this isn't the case for Maguire's? I imagine that means it's his choice to activate it, but maybe that isn't true.
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Well I'd be interested in any links giving details of that clause.

Because a break clause that requires the consent of both parties seems redundant, as if both parties agree to terminate a contract it can be done at any time anyway.
 
Havak said:
I don't fully understand it myself, but a lot of our players have a +1 option that can be triggered by the club only. From what I've read, this isn't the case for Maguire's? I imagine that means it's his choice to activate it, but maybe that isn't true.
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Don't believe that's true. Maguire's +1 is a club option. Likely we won't be exercising it, as we look to re-sign him on a cheaper deal.
 
Havak said:
I don't fully understand it myself, but a lot of our players have a +1 option that can be triggered by the club only. From what I've read, this isn't the case for Maguire's? I imagine that means it's his choice to activate it, but maybe that isn't true.
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bb8 said:
Don't believe that's true. Maguire's +1 is a club option. Likely we won't be exercising it, as we look to re-sign him on a cheaper deal.
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I think in basketball the +1 can be activated by the player. I don’t think this is the case in football. The +1 is always in the hands of the club. So in Maguire’s case we have the option to extend his contract BUT the caveat is if we don’t extend before Dec 31 he is free to talk and sign for foreign clubs beginning Jan 1 even though we have the option to extend.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I'm seeing quite a few posts suggesting that we sign the likes of Gyökeres, Kvaratskhelia and I've even seen Wirtz and Isak put forward. I have to ask at this point if any of these are feasible from a financial perspective?

I'm not very well-informed on the financial front so I admit, I do treat the FFP stories with perhaps more credibility than they're due, but each of those names would probably command nine-figure fees and some people have suggested we sign more than one of them. It doesn't sound very plausible to me.
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Not feasible at all and when you look at how this squad is collapsing right in front of our eyes then it becomes beaker by the day. We need a top striker, we can't really gamble on another project signing and that will set us back by at least £60m.

Martinez's form and Shaw's injuries make it likely that a LCB will be pretty high on the priority list after striker and LWB. So the striker (70m), LWB (35m) and LCB (50m) will set cost us £155m alone. Can't see us doing much more than signing another pivot player.

The only way the situation can be helped is if we can sign a player like Gomez on a free and promote a few academy lads. As of now that's my only point of contention with Amorim; I think by now he knows that outside of around 8 players the rest are completely useless so why not take more chances on youth to see whether some can be outright or squad solutions? Maybe he is playing politics for the January window.
 
AneRu said:
Not feasible at all and when you look at how this squad is collapsing right in front of our eyes then it becomes beaker by the day. We need a top striker, we can't really gamble on another project signing and that will set us back by at least £60m.

Martinez's form and Shaw's injuries make it likely that a LCB will be pretty high on the priority list after striker and LWB. So the striker (70m), LWB (35m) and LCB (50m) will set cost us £155m alone. Can't see us doing much more than signing another pivot player.

The only way the situation can be helped is if we can sign a player like Gomez on a free and promote a few academy lads. As of now that's my only point of contention with Amorim; I think by now he knows that outside of around 8 players the rest are completely useless so why not take more chances on youth to see whether some can be outright or squad solutions? Maybe he is playing politics for the January window.
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There's no need for politics in winter window, everyone knows we can't spend basically anything. Maybe an odd loan or sub 10m punt for youngster.
 
SparcMac said:
There's no need for politics in winter window, everyone knows we can't spend basically anything. Maybe an odd loan or sub 10m punt for youngster.
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It's just me thinking out loud because I don't think any decent coach can see some of the players we have and be found handing them chances to not only play but start matches. Not discounting the differences in talent levels and application but I look at Cole Palmer and other kids forging PL careers then wonder why ours can't even play.

Admittedly the toxicity around the club atm could sink any player so it's a massive risk but I'd like to think that any young player worth his salt can do better at LWB than Malacia and Dalot. Like I said I am just thinking out loud but surely there are about five hopeless players on whom we shouldn't be wasting minutes that could build up a kid looking to make their way in the game.

And I repeat, the Amorim build will not succeed if he can not supplement signings with youth because the scale of the work ahead is huge and, looking at his thread, people easily lose sight of the context in which he is trying to operate. Players like Gore, Fletcher, Wheatley and Amass (for a LWB) should be looked at.

To just compete next season we need a;
  • Striker (70m-100m)
  • Left 10 (40m - 80m)
  • LWB (40m)
  • CM (50m)
  • LCB (50m)
That's easily at least £250m and on the back of consecutive £200m windows is it even feasible? So if we don't, if a couple of positions, promote youth how do we balance it out? Continue playing Bruno and Casemiro in CM, hope that Shaw turns his fitness around or hope that Hoijlund accelerates his growth? I think we know what to expect from those expectations.
 
I really like everyone is forgetting Carreras, he has been great so far (I know it's the portuguese league) but it's 10x better than dalot
 
.............................X................................
................................................................
....................X.............Amad...................
.................................................................
X...............................................Mazraoui
..............Ugarte.......Mainoo....................
..................................................................
..................................................................
.......Martinez......de Ligt.......Yoro............
..................................................................
.........................Onana..............................

Those are our major needs going into next season, in my opinion.

-Osimhen or Gyokeres up top, obviously. I think it's kinda imperative that we sign one of those two players, honestly.

-Davies or Theo Hernandez at wingback. Davies is a player you break the bank for, I think, because he's world class and would fulfill the exact role we desperately need and getting a player like that on a free is not an opportunity that comes along very often.

-Obviously a player like Wirtz or Musiala would be incredible but I highly doubt we can convince either of them to come to a project club, so with that said it seems like going after a player like Khvicha is a no-brainer.
 
Todd said:
.............................X................................
................................................................
....................X.............Amad...................
.................................................................
X...............................................Mazraoui
..............Ugarte.......Mainoo....................
..................................................................
..................................................................
.......Martinez......de Ligt.......Yoro............
..................................................................
.........................Onana..............................

Those are our major needs going into next season, in my opinion.

-Osimhen or Gyokeres up top, obviously. I think it's kinda imperative that we sign one of those two players, honestly.

-Davies or Theo Hernandez at wingback. Davies is a player you break the bank for, I think, because he's world class and would fulfill the exact role we desperately need and getting a player like that on a free is not an opportunity that comes along very often.

-Obviously a player like Wirtz or Musiala would be incredible but I highly doubt we can convince either of them to come to a project club, so with that said it seems like going after a player like Khvicha is a no-brainer.
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This is i agree with. Some posters going mad saying we need six/seven new players.
 
Hugh Jass said:
This is i agree with. Some posters going mad saying we need six/seven new players.
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It’s not mad given the players who might leave - Eriksen, Case, Lindelof, Evans, Malacia, Rashford, Mount, maybe Antony, maybe Maguire and maybe Shaw. We need a good squad not just three new starters. What happens when there are inevitable injuries?
 
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