Im sorry Neto has proved himself in the EPL for YEARS? He had 3 goals and 11 assists last year and thats it. Its all 1 goal 1 assist before that. So its weird to compare Trincao to Neto. Trincao had 13 G and 4 A in 22/23. He had 10 G and 10 A last year and he has 6 G and 11 A this year.
Amorim's Rebuild
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
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SparkedIntoLife
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ETH had us finishing third in his first season. Just over a year and a half ago. Third! Yet I remember thinking back then ‘this isn’t the guy’. I remember also thinking that Rashford wasn’t to be trusted long term, even after 30 goals that season. Casemiro was a class act that year but it felt like a swan song. Martinez was superb but many felt his liabilities were not worth it (to be fair I wasn’t one of these people).
Don’t forget that much of ETH’s first season success was based on compromise. Casemiro was a club choice, allegedly. Ten Hag wanted De Jong but it wasn’t happening. He seemingly felt (as he alluded to in comments that season about creating the next De Jong from within) that Mainoo was the guy to take that mantle.
Rashford and Fernandes were not archetypal ETH players. The former, he felt, needed some love to get the best out of him. He was right but only to a point - the psychological issues and acts of ill discipline would soon overtake him. The latter was the bastion of professionalism in a squad where that was lacking. However, embracing these guys was wise for a season.
Football wise, Ten Hag ditched the high press and high line. Our possession play was OK that season but it was founded on pragmatism and we still had moments of fast transition. It was a great hybrid style. Carlo Ancelotti style management.
What should ETH have done next? Hindsight is a wonderful thing but he should’ve had the courage of his convictions and sold Rashford, Fernandes, Maguire and Casemiro and really then committed to what he wanted to do. feck the ‘United style’. Everyone wanted us to play like the Ajax we saw under him.
We could’ve got decent cash for those players and invested in a proper rebuild in the vein of Ajax in Ten Hag’s glory days. Was ETH ultimately the right horse to bet on? No, and the structure wasn’t in place to support him, but we ended up getting the worst out of everything.
ETH knew he’d have to evolve the team from his successful first season (just like Ole sensed the limitations after his successful season finishing second). He adopted some aspects of his preferred system but had none of the ingredients to implement it properly and still clung to the counter attack. He went for another hybrid system but this compromise was a stupid one and not a smart one like the year before.
Ten Hag took on way too much responsibility for the rebuild. He had too much choice over players (Casemiro notwithstanding), had too much involvement in the U23s allegedly and tried to fill a huge void in footballing leadership. Ultimately he couldn’t be trusted to know how to get the best out of his vision, despite how strong his convictions were.
Most of us had huge doubts about Ten Hag late in that first season and early in the second, in spite of positive signs. We did have a few good things to show for his reign - trophies, sure, and positive development of two shining stars from the academy in Mainoo and Garnacho.
Fast forward to a few weeks into the Amorim reign. Mainoo doesn’t look suited to the system. Garnacho has fallen off a cliff to the point where many of us want him to go. We’re in a relegation battle. No new youngsters have been given a chance. We barely have any sellable assets.
We’re in a huge quandary. Ten Hag’s first season was full of compromise but we had something to show for it. We had the power to sell the parts of the club that were performing but didn’t fit the vision. Now we don’t even have that.
I’ve a lot of sympathy for the argument that Ruud should’ve stayed the season. We could’ve rode the Ole like wave and then properly rebuilt from hopefully a position of strength. Instead, we’re doing a hard mode rebuild to something very different with no visible fruit so far. There’s barely anything positive to cling to, even emerging from the academy.
It’s like we’re rebuilding from a place of utter destruction which therefore restricts the rebuild. Having said that, we’ve missed the chance to rebuild from strength. Any papering over the cracks has ended.
I have more faith in Amorim than I ever did in Ten Hag, even after ETH’s successful first season and Amorim’s awful first six weeks. But I still don’t have faith in the machine above him and already see signs that worry me.
Yes, Amorim will live and die by his style in a way that Ten Hag didn’t. Great. HOWEVER…
1) We can already see Amorim filling the leadership void like ETH did - insisting he has control over the signings etc. He’s alienated Georgsen, ditched Ruud. I get these decisions in isolation. But I also see that he’s still shaping up to be the ‘manager saviour’ role that most of us hoped we’d gotten away from. He doesn’t seem to trust the system he’s in. That’s really alarming.
2) While he claims not to throw the players under the bus, he kind of already is. Subtly. The notion that everyone’s terrible and needs replacing is bought by pretty much everyone here. While I think we’ve bought poorly and have a lot of dross, not everyone is bad. Look how carefree many of us are about selling Garnacho, for example.
There’s shades of Rangnick here. He more brazenly told us everyone was shit and the club needed open heart surgery. What happened? The players’ confidence and enthusiasm zapped. They looked leggy and lethargic. ETH dismissed that notion when he came in - he said Rashford was class and reminded everyone that the team had finished second only a year or so before. That year, the players were galvanised.
Rangnick positioned himself as the saviour of a broken club, killed expectations and got us to buy into him as the one to fix everything. Was he right? Maybe… the likes of Alvarez, Enzo Fernandez (pre Benfica move when he was cheaper) and Nkunku might have been very smart signings.
I just worry that Amorim is tanking the current setup verbally (albeit diplomatically, through what he isn’t saying rather than is) when this group needs bigging up. Tell the world that they’re quality. Let them believe it. Let them feel motivated to play this season. Then move anyone out who doesn’t fit the bill, hopefully after getting some good, motivated performances out of them.
3) Really?! Not one new youngster? Even after our under 18s have dominated during the last 2 years?
Maybe his rationale is to protect them for when the team is in a stronger place. I hope so. Or maybe he’s giving the current squad enough rope to hang themselves with first.
Anyway, super long post. I just really worry where we go from here. I’d have hoped more of our squad would look like they fit in the plans by now. I’m just really confused by what I’m seeing.
I do like Amorim a lot but I am concerned about this hero narrative. The notion that he’ll replace all of this dog turd squad (who clearly aren’t all dog turd) with smart signings and youth is naive, I think. And somewhat passes the buck. We absolutely need new signings and to blood young players. But we absolutely need to get better from the players we have.
The media narrative that everyone is shit at United is so intoxicating but I just don’t think it’s true. This club still finished third 19 months ago. We signed most of these players at decent ages after they did really well at other clubs. Maybe their failure to progress isn’t because they’re shit and don’t try but it’s because they were victims of terrible club strategy (confused by managers wanting to play hero) and because so much negativity is spoken about them in a perpetual desire for change.
Don’t forget that much of ETH’s first season success was based on compromise. Casemiro was a club choice, allegedly. Ten Hag wanted De Jong but it wasn’t happening. He seemingly felt (as he alluded to in comments that season about creating the next De Jong from within) that Mainoo was the guy to take that mantle.
Rashford and Fernandes were not archetypal ETH players. The former, he felt, needed some love to get the best out of him. He was right but only to a point - the psychological issues and acts of ill discipline would soon overtake him. The latter was the bastion of professionalism in a squad where that was lacking. However, embracing these guys was wise for a season.
Football wise, Ten Hag ditched the high press and high line. Our possession play was OK that season but it was founded on pragmatism and we still had moments of fast transition. It was a great hybrid style. Carlo Ancelotti style management.
What should ETH have done next? Hindsight is a wonderful thing but he should’ve had the courage of his convictions and sold Rashford, Fernandes, Maguire and Casemiro and really then committed to what he wanted to do. feck the ‘United style’. Everyone wanted us to play like the Ajax we saw under him.
We could’ve got decent cash for those players and invested in a proper rebuild in the vein of Ajax in Ten Hag’s glory days. Was ETH ultimately the right horse to bet on? No, and the structure wasn’t in place to support him, but we ended up getting the worst out of everything.
ETH knew he’d have to evolve the team from his successful first season (just like Ole sensed the limitations after his successful season finishing second). He adopted some aspects of his preferred system but had none of the ingredients to implement it properly and still clung to the counter attack. He went for another hybrid system but this compromise was a stupid one and not a smart one like the year before.
Ten Hag took on way too much responsibility for the rebuild. He had too much choice over players (Casemiro notwithstanding), had too much involvement in the U23s allegedly and tried to fill a huge void in footballing leadership. Ultimately he couldn’t be trusted to know how to get the best out of his vision, despite how strong his convictions were.
Most of us had huge doubts about Ten Hag late in that first season and early in the second, in spite of positive signs. We did have a few good things to show for his reign - trophies, sure, and positive development of two shining stars from the academy in Mainoo and Garnacho.
Fast forward to a few weeks into the Amorim reign. Mainoo doesn’t look suited to the system. Garnacho has fallen off a cliff to the point where many of us want him to go. We’re in a relegation battle. No new youngsters have been given a chance. We barely have any sellable assets.
We’re in a huge quandary. Ten Hag’s first season was full of compromise but we had something to show for it. We had the power to sell the parts of the club that were performing but didn’t fit the vision. Now we don’t even have that.
I’ve a lot of sympathy for the argument that Ruud should’ve stayed the season. We could’ve rode the Ole like wave and then properly rebuilt from hopefully a position of strength. Instead, we’re doing a hard mode rebuild to something very different with no visible fruit so far. There’s barely anything positive to cling to, even emerging from the academy.
It’s like we’re rebuilding from a place of utter destruction which therefore restricts the rebuild. Having said that, we’ve missed the chance to rebuild from strength. Any papering over the cracks has ended.
I have more faith in Amorim than I ever did in Ten Hag, even after ETH’s successful first season and Amorim’s awful first six weeks. But I still don’t have faith in the machine above him and already see signs that worry me.
Yes, Amorim will live and die by his style in a way that Ten Hag didn’t. Great. HOWEVER…
1) We can already see Amorim filling the leadership void like ETH did - insisting he has control over the signings etc. He’s alienated Georgsen, ditched Ruud. I get these decisions in isolation. But I also see that he’s still shaping up to be the ‘manager saviour’ role that most of us hoped we’d gotten away from. He doesn’t seem to trust the system he’s in. That’s really alarming.
2) While he claims not to throw the players under the bus, he kind of already is. Subtly. The notion that everyone’s terrible and needs replacing is bought by pretty much everyone here. While I think we’ve bought poorly and have a lot of dross, not everyone is bad. Look how carefree many of us are about selling Garnacho, for example.
There’s shades of Rangnick here. He more brazenly told us everyone was shit and the club needed open heart surgery. What happened? The players’ confidence and enthusiasm zapped. They looked leggy and lethargic. ETH dismissed that notion when he came in - he said Rashford was class and reminded everyone that the team had finished second only a year or so before. That year, the players were galvanised.
Rangnick positioned himself as the saviour of a broken club, killed expectations and got us to buy into him as the one to fix everything. Was he right? Maybe… the likes of Alvarez, Enzo Fernandez (pre Benfica move when he was cheaper) and Nkunku might have been very smart signings.
I just worry that Amorim is tanking the current setup verbally (albeit diplomatically, through what he isn’t saying rather than is) when this group needs bigging up. Tell the world that they’re quality. Let them believe it. Let them feel motivated to play this season. Then move anyone out who doesn’t fit the bill, hopefully after getting some good, motivated performances out of them.
3) Really?! Not one new youngster? Even after our under 18s have dominated during the last 2 years?
Maybe his rationale is to protect them for when the team is in a stronger place. I hope so. Or maybe he’s giving the current squad enough rope to hang themselves with first.
Anyway, super long post. I just really worry where we go from here. I’d have hoped more of our squad would look like they fit in the plans by now. I’m just really confused by what I’m seeing.
I do like Amorim a lot but I am concerned about this hero narrative. The notion that he’ll replace all of this dog turd squad (who clearly aren’t all dog turd) with smart signings and youth is naive, I think. And somewhat passes the buck. We absolutely need new signings and to blood young players. But we absolutely need to get better from the players we have.
The media narrative that everyone is shit at United is so intoxicating but I just don’t think it’s true. This club still finished third 19 months ago. We signed most of these players at decent ages after they did really well at other clubs. Maybe their failure to progress isn’t because they’re shit and don’t try but it’s because they were victims of terrible club strategy (confused by managers wanting to play hero) and because so much negativity is spoken about them in a perpetual desire for change.
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How on earth have we assembled the crop of players that we have?
It's actually impressive how a scouting department/board members/managers have allowed it to get this bad. All the while, spending 100's of millions to do it.
It's genuinely like a rival fan has taken charge since Ferguson and Gill left and is just trying to run us into the ground and I'm not joking.
It really is quite amazing isn't it. You would think you could pick names out of a hat and have a better success rate on transfers than what United has accomplished in the past 3 (10) years.
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Im sorry Neto has proved himself in the EPL for YEARS? He had 3 goals and 11 assists last year and thats it. Its all 1 goal 1 assist before that. So its weird to compare Trincao to Neto. Trincao had 13 G and 4 A in 22/23. He had 10 G and 10 A last year and he has 6 G and 11 A this year.
That’s how bad Trincao is that I have to use Neto as a minimum standard. He also had 5 league goals and 6 league assists in 20/21 in PL.
I would take Neto 2 goals and 9 assists in PL or his 20/21 season over Trincao 9 G and 6 A in Portuguese league.
2 goals and 9 assists in PL is far more impressive number than 9 G and 6 A in Portuguese league. I’ll be surprised if you disagree with this.
I don’t know how you can suggest us a 25 years old player who has his best output of 15 goals and assists combined in a season in Portuguese league.That output in Portuguese league would be good signing as wingback but Trincao doesn’t play as wingback.
bosnian_red
Worst scout to ever exist
I think in January we'll get rid of Zirkzee, Rashford and Casemiro. Hopefully manage to get something like 50m combined for them from Saudi and something like 25m for Zirkzee from Serie A (or loan with buy clause). Then go and try to pay out Osimhens loan and then sign him
RDCR07
Not a bad guy (Whale Killer)
I think this is the dumbest argument someone has made on here in a while. Also Trincao's stats are not good enough since its the Portuguese league but somehow Gykores goals count? Does he not play in the Portuguese league? By your logic why does it matter if he has 50 goals in Portugal?That’s how bad Trincao is that I have to use Neto as a minimum standard.
He also had 5 league goals and 6 league assists in 20/21. I would take Neto 2 goals and 9 assists in PL over Trincao 9 G and 6 A in Portuguese league. 2 goals and 9 assists in PL is far more impressive number than 9 G and 6 A in Portuguese league. I don’t know how you can suggest us a 25 years old player who has his best output of 15 goals and assists combined in a season in Portuguese league.That output in Portuguese league would be good signing as wingback but Trincao doesn’t play as wingback.
I already told you the reasons for going for someone like Trincao - one is transfer fees. It will be cheaper. Two - he has played in a 3-4-2-1 under Amorim meaning he knows exactly whats needed of him. He is also a hard worker. If you are only judging someone by their stats, someone like Park Ji Sung shouldnt have played for us but we all know how good and how important he was to our side.
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I think this is the dumbest argument someone has made on here in a while. Also Trincao's stats are not good enough since its the Portuguese league but somehow Gykores goals count? Does he not play in the Portuguese league? By your logic why does it matter if he has 50 goals in Portugal?
I already told you the reasons for going for someone like Trincao - one is transfer fees. It will be cheaper. Two - he has played in a 3-4-2-1 under Amorim meaning he knows exactly whats needed of him. He is also a hard worker. If you are only judging someone by their stats, someone like Park Ji Sung shouldnt have played for us but we all know how good and how important he was to our side.
I haven’t been rude at all in this, but you took the word out my mouth because I had the same view about you made this argument.
Gyokeres has 29 league goals and 10 league assists last season. Now he has 18 league goals and 2 league assists in 16 league starts. 9 goals and 4 assists this season with Sweden International (Not just Portuguese league, which I mentioned this before). Whether he will be good enough or no in PL, who knows. Are you telling me that’s comparable to what Trincao done in Portuguese league and his national team?
£35m is cheap for proven PL players but £35m isn’t cheap for 25 years old attackers who done decent in Portuguese league, that’s the similar amount we spent on Zirkzee and look at what people say now? If you’re talking about cheap is like £15m on Daniel James and we managed to sold him more than what we paid him.
I don’t only judge by stats. That’s why I use Neto as example. It wasn’t just goals and assists, Neto proved himself that he’s winger who can beat PL defenders.
Park was chosen, along with Andriy Shevchenko, Adriano, Samuel Eto'o and Ronaldinho, as one of the nominees for the 2005 UEFA Best Forward award. The guy only cost us £4m and sold for £2.5m. What has Trincao done for us to pay £30m-£35m?
redNATION
Full Member
Not a single transfer post Fergie has been an unqualified success, it’s extraordinary. Even Chelsea with their scattergun approach have landed Palmer, Caicedo and Enzo, Jackson is looking decent too so they have a bedrock to build from. The law of averages says we should gotten some of our transfers right, it takes a special level of incompetence to get to where we are now.How on earth have we assembled the crop of players that we have?
It's actually impressive how a scouting department/board members/managers have allowed it to get this bad. All the while, spending 100's of millions to do it.
It's genuinely like a rival fan has taken charge since Ferguson and Gill left and is just trying to run us into the ground and I'm not joking.
croadyman
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Many more defeats and he won't ever get a chance to complete any kind of rebuild which is sad
Freak
Born a freak always a freak.
It’s crazy how many new players we need even starting in January.
We need to shore up our midfield with athletic and physical players. We probably need 2 midfielders as soon as possible.
We need a striker to help us score some goals. We are woeful in that department. Another must buy this January for me.
And now with that clown we have in goal, we will need a new goalkeeper as well. We can’t keep leaking goals in just because Onana does not know goalkeeping basics.
We need to shore up our midfield with athletic and physical players. We probably need 2 midfielders as soon as possible.
We need a striker to help us score some goals. We are woeful in that department. Another must buy this January for me.
And now with that clown we have in goal, we will need a new goalkeeper as well. We can’t keep leaking goals in just because Onana does not know goalkeeping basics.
red_de_pologne
Full Member
Unless we have a mad January sale, and there’s several players who could be sold, there won’t be no rebuild as Amorim won’t last until summer.
chris123
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Rashford and Zirkzee will be loans, *maybe* we get a sale out of Casemiro, but I wouldn't be expecting major business. Something like a Rashford/Muani loan swap deal or something like that is probably the best we can hope for.I think in January we'll get rid of Zirkzee, Rashford and Casemiro. Hopefully manage to get something like 50m combined for them from Saudi and something like 25m for Zirkzee from Serie A (or loan with buy clause). Then go and try to pay out Osimhens loan and then sign him
jamesjimmybyrondean
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You could easily confuse him for Gyokeres tbh
The Hilton
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It’s crazy how many new players we need even starting in January.
We need to shore up our midfield with athletic and physical players. We probably need 2 midfielders as soon as possible.
We need a striker to help us score some goals. We are woeful in that department. Another must buy this January for me.
And now with that clown we have in goal, we will need a new goalkeeper as well. We can’t keep leaking goals in just because Onana does not know goalkeeping basics.
This is the key bit, we need way more athleticism in the middle of the park, and on the wings, in order to make this system work. We could also do with more athleticism at centre back too, and for the 10s.
We can put out a pretty good first XI for this system with everyone fit and firing, but as soon as we have to reach into the squad it falls apart.
daba
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You could easily confuse him for Gyokeres tbh
I’d swap him for Hojlund in a heartbeat on current form but I’m not convinced he’s going to be a top top level ST long-term. Physically he has all of the tools though.
I also like the look of Omari Hutchinson, think he could be a nice option for us as one of the 10s in this system. With the expected outgoings happening over the next year we do need more English (homegrown) talent in the squad.
Posh Red
Full Member
Agree on both counts. They should be available for at least semi-reasonable prices if they’re relegated, too.I’d swap him for Hojlund in a heartbeat on current form but I’m not convinced he’s going to be a top top level ST long-term. Physically he has all of the tools though.
I also like the look of Omari Hutchinson, think he could be a nice option for us as one of the 10s in this system. With the expected outgoings happening over the next year we do need more English (homegrown) talent in the squad.
Carl
has permanently erect nipples
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Honestly I wouldn't care if we didn't sign anyone in January providing it meant we still shipped a load out. Replace those we move on with academy players then rebuild in the summer, keeping on the academy players that are up to it.
SER19
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does anyone know our actual financial situation for january? i know its tight but ive seen things before in windows where some account breaks down our finances for the relevant period. so cant anyone speculate fairly closely to what money is available in january or why for example buying in january cant just mean not spending in summer?
SER19
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This is the key bit, we need way more athleticism in the middle of the park, and on the wings, in order to make this system work. We could also do with more athleticism at centre back too, and for the 10s.
We can put out a pretty good first XI for this system with everyone fit and firing, but as soon as we have to reach into the squad it falls apart.
i agree, but am very concerened now as even when we had bruno and ugarte energy in the middle a week ago we looked absolutely awful too.
OmarUnited4ever
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We need energetic CMs who can defend and attack, tackle and create, an all-rounders like Bruno G, Tonali, Rice, Paqueta, or Forest's Anderson, Ugarte alone isn't enough, and Mainoo isn't at the level yet to be depended on as a part of midfield 2 but he can't be part of a midfield 3.
I'm thinking we should go for someone who is as young as Ugarte but with solid experience, someone that is physical enough for the PL but also possess good technical level.
There are plenty of those in the PL and Europe, we should find at least one this Jan and another one in the summer and we let Cas and Eriksen go.
I'm thinking we should go for someone who is as young as Ugarte but with solid experience, someone that is physical enough for the PL but also possess good technical level.
There are plenty of those in the PL and Europe, we should find at least one this Jan and another one in the summer and we let Cas and Eriksen go.
The Hilton
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i agree, but am very concerened now as even when we had bruno and ugarte energy in the middle a week ago we looked absolutely awful too.
That's fair, but at least with them in the team against Wolves we were pretty solid (barring the ridiculous corner goal), and we've had some good victories too.
I'd expect some inconsistency adjusting to the new system even if our squad was a perfect match, but our first XI is an okay match and beyond that our squad is very thin.
SER19
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That's fair, but at least with them in the team against Wolves we were pretty solid (barring the ridiculous corner goal), and we've had some good victories too.
I'd expect some inconsistency adjusting to the new system even if our squad was a perfect match, but our first XI is an okay match and beyond that our squad is very thin.
I mostly agree - Im very disappointed with how the back 3 is performing though, they are good players and look like theyve no idea how to play. Even southgate had england playing competently at the back. People might pile on, but if we can weather this awful time, I wouldnt mind starting next season with
Onana - Yoro - De Ligt- Martinez - RWB- LWB- Ugarte- Mainoo- Fernandes - Diallo- Striker
with room for garnacho, mazraoui, hojlund, dalot, and a couple of others in a healthier squad. Im not against replacing Bruno if a quality other 10 is available but im not sure money will allow this summer and he isnt our biggest issue. I dont have a clue to be honest about what players are out there that will suit so Im just going to throw out Frimpong, Davies and Gyokeres for example. Its 3 players and strengthens things alot.
RDCR07
Not a bad guy (Whale Killer)
Yeah if you cant see.You could easily confuse him for Gyokeres tbh
Matt851
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feck me Ipswich have a better forward line than usAgree on both counts. They should be available for at least semi-reasonable prices if they’re relegated, too.
The Hilton
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I mostly agree - Im very disappointed with how the back 3 is performing though, they are good players and look like theyve no idea how to play. Even southgate had england playing competently at the back. People might pile on, but if we can weather this awful time, I wouldnt mind starting next season with
Onana - Yoro - De Ligt- Martinez - RWB- LWB- Ugarte- Mainoo- Fernandes - Diallo- Striker
with room for garnacho, mazraoui, hojlund, dalot, and a couple of others in a healthier squad. Im not against replacing Bruno if a quality other 10 is available but im not sure money will allow this summer and he isnt our biggest issue. I dont have a clue to be honest about what players are out there that will suit so Im just going to throw out Frimpong, Davies and Gyokeres for example. Its 3 players and strengthens things alot.
I think the back 3 in this system need more physicality, particularly their pace and speed of turn, in order to defend the wide channels that the wingbacks can leave by pushing forward. Yoro probably fits the bill, and Mazraoui too, but most of the rest of our CBs are pretty slow and turn like oil tankers. I really think we could do with taking a leaf out of the recent Spurs book and going after a few players who are ridiculously quick and able to cover a lot of ground, at least to fill gaps in the system until we can get better players in.
Toblerone92
Full Member
What would it actually take for INEOS to sack Amorim? We knew it was going to get worse before it got better and we knew the squad was a crock of shit, so i'm not sure why so many here are already turning on him. I agree he's made a few bad decisions in terms of selection but the notion of binning him off seems so absurd to me, even on current form.
Sky1981
Fending off the urge
One thing for sure, or two things
1. He cant command the dressing room. The players arent playing for him. Even if it's not his mistake, it's an omnious sign
2. He cant make things work if it's not ideal, and it's never ideal in the real world. Great manager can adapt to whatever they're given with, even if the result is not optimum it shouldn't be this catastrophic. Our players might be bad quality wise but his tactics further magnifices the glaring error. Some of our players are hopeless so I'd expect him to shore up the ship for this season and start building next season instead of forcing his ideal formation now against all odds and sending us further down. It's not like these bunch of players worth persisting since most of them will be gone come next season
You dont need a new season and 11 new player to play football, i dont expect us to click and start playing city Football but the past 2 months is worrying
SAF completed the rebuilt ruthlessly but in his first year he still somehow delivers
1. He cant command the dressing room. The players arent playing for him. Even if it's not his mistake, it's an omnious sign
2. He cant make things work if it's not ideal, and it's never ideal in the real world. Great manager can adapt to whatever they're given with, even if the result is not optimum it shouldn't be this catastrophic. Our players might be bad quality wise but his tactics further magnifices the glaring error. Some of our players are hopeless so I'd expect him to shore up the ship for this season and start building next season instead of forcing his ideal formation now against all odds and sending us further down. It's not like these bunch of players worth persisting since most of them will be gone come next season
You dont need a new season and 11 new player to play football, i dont expect us to click and start playing city Football but the past 2 months is worrying
SAF completed the rebuilt ruthlessly but in his first year he still somehow delivers
Valencia Shin Crosses
Full Member
No way we don’t go for a LWB if we sell players.I think in January we'll get rid of Zirkzee, Rashford and Casemiro. Hopefully manage to get something like 50m combined for them from Saudi and something like 25m for Zirkzee from Serie A (or loan with buy clause). Then go and try to pay out Osimhens loan and then sign him
bosnian_red
Worst scout to ever exist
Probably. But main priority has to be a striker. I honestly think Dalot at LWB wouldn't be as big of an issue if we also had someone like Amad as the left #10 who could dribble with the ball reliably and provide some attacking spark there. Garnacho has been so off it that he just hasn't been working there and it leaves Dalot with a lot to do on his own. Plus if we use Amad as the RWB, then the LWB is fine to be more defensive. We just need another attacking mid to be able to do that.No way we don’t go for a LWB if we sell players.
How many positions do you want Amad to play exactly?Probably. But main priority has to be a striker. I honestly think Dalot at LWB wouldn't be as big of an issue if we also had someone like Amad as the left #10 who could dribble with the ball reliably and provide some attacking spark there. Garnacho has been so off it that he just hasn't been working there and it leaves Dalot with a lot to do on his own. Plus if we use Amad as the RWB, then the LWB is fine to be more defensive. We just need another attacking mid to be able to do that.
soapythecat
Full Member
They can’t afford to sack him. He was the last role of the dice, and it’s looking like failure from INeOSWhat would it actually take for INEOS to sack Amorim? We knew it was going to get worse before it got better and we knew the squad was a crock of shit, so i'm not sure why so many here are already turning on him. I agree he's made a few bad decisions in terms of selection but the notion of binning him off seems so absurd to me, even on current form.
bosnian_red
Worst scout to ever exist
If we get a quality left sided #10 (Cunha, Olmo, Kvara as the dream but unrealistic), then Amad can go to RWB, Bruno can play as the right sided #10, we of course need a new CF (worth trying to take Osimhen) and in that situation,, Dalot at LWB is less of a concern.How many positions do you want Amad to play exactly?
Osimhen
Cunha Bruno
Dalot Mainoo Ugarte Amad
Martinez De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
In this instance, we get that attacking push from RWB and Amorim wouldn't put 2 attacking wingers as the wing backs, one of them is always going to be a more defensive player but he's always wanted a winger on the other side. The reason Amad can't play at wing back right now is we don't have any #10's worth playing, especially with Mount injured and Bruno suspended. Get a 10 like Cunha, get a CF like Osimhen and the issue in front of net should massively improve.
RDCR07
Not a bad guy (Whale Killer)
LWB is the most important position to buy first. Even more so than a striker and a #10. Dalot will look bad on the left even if we have Kane up top and KDB playing behind him.If we get a quality left sided #10 (Cunha, Olmo, Kvara as the dream but unrealistic), then Amad can go to RWB, Bruno can play as the right sided #10, we of course need a new CF (worth trying to take Osimhen) and in that situation,, Dalot at LWB is less of a concern.
Osimhen
Cunha Bruno
Dalot Mainoo Ugarte Amad
Martinez De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
In this instance, we get that attacking push from RWB and Amorim wouldn't put 2 attacking wingers as the wing backs, one of them is always going to be a more defensive player but he's always wanted a winger on the other side. The reason Amad can't play at wing back right now is we don't have any #10's worth playing, especially with Mount injured and Bruno suspended. Get a 10 like Cunha, get a CF like Osimhen and the issue in front of net should massively improve.
bosnian_red
Worst scout to ever exist
Not a chance in hell it's more important than CF... LWB isn't the reason we aren't scoring goals and it isn't the reason we don't have anybody worth playing at #10. It's a problem, but for me it's the 4th priority.LWB is the most important position to buy first. Even more so than a striker and a #10. Dalot will look bad on the left even if we have Kane up top and KDB playing behind him.
RDCR07
Not a bad guy (Whale Killer)
When we dont play wingers, it is essential for the wingback to provide width and put in crosses and hold a position up the field so there is pressure on their wingers/right back. Dalot isnt good going forward nor is he good defensively. So its a double whammy.Not a chance in hell it's more important than CF... LWB isn't the reason we aren't scoring goals and it isn't the reason we don't have anybody worth playing at #10. It's a problem, but for me it's the 4th priority.
If we get a quality left sided #10 (Cunha, Olmo, Kvara as the dream but unrealistic), then Amad can go to RWB, Bruno can play as the right sided #10, we of course need a new CF (worth trying to take Osimhen) and in that situation,, Dalot at LWB is less of a concern.
Osimhen
Cunha Bruno
Dalot Mainoo Ugarte Amad
Martinez De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
In this instance, we get that attacking push from RWB and Amorim wouldn't put 2 attacking wingers as the wing backs, one of them is always going to be a more defensive player but he's always wanted a winger on the other side. The reason Amad can't play at wing back right now is we don't have any #10's worth playing, especially with Mount injured and Bruno suspended. Get a 10 like Cunha, get a CF like Osimhen and the issue in front of net should massively improve.
Martinez should be backup only, he can't handle LCB.
bosnian_red
Worst scout to ever exist
Can't solve everything right away. We need to address the CF in January and if possible, the #10 IMO. Beyond that, yes we need Ugarte depth, a left wing back, and a LCB who can handle the wide spaces better than Martinez.Martinez should be backup only, he can't handle LCB.
Acquire Me
Full Member
Honestly I wouldn't care if we didn't sign anyone in January providing it meant we still shipped a load out. Replace those we move on with academy players then rebuild in the summer, keeping on the academy players that are up to it.
Agree. It would help to get rid of some of the players imo as well. I hope we can see Rashford and Casemiro moved for starters.
RedIan
Full Member
It took SAF 4 years to win the first trophy (FA cup) and 6 full seasons to win the league.SAF completed the rebuilt ruthlessly but in his first year he still somehow delivers
Now we want instant success. In todays world Fergie would have been sacked well before he won a trophy.
Acquire Me
Full Member
It took SAF 4 years to win the first trophy (FA cup) and 6 full seasons to win the league.
Now we want instant success. In todays world Fergie would have been sacked well before he won a trophy.
That’s for sure.
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