I’m really not sure him saying all this publicly helps much. I agree with him wholeheartedly but not sure how it’s meant to be constructive or motivating. We are in an absolutely dire situation.
Amorim: «We are maybe the worst team in Man United history»
- Thread starter rio's upper lip
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Agree with this. Good post
It’s huge and it’s a big disadvantage collectively when trying to press etc as well as individually.
We’ve ended up with our slowest, weakest, least athletic team at a time when it’s become more important than ever.
Daft thing to say but at least it's got everyone talking about him rather than the players.
This season is going to get even more brutal though if he doesn't do anything to grind out results when we need them, and he was contradictory in his message:
"We need a run of wins to restore confidence but we can't achieve that playing my style because we don't have the right players. I also won't change a thing so guess it sucks to play for me right now."
Where does that leave us? Morale rock bottom, players form totally shot and entering a window with virtually zero chance of shifting players due to quality/wage expectations/them needing to take a serious dip in career prestige.
I reckon in a year's time when the club realises whoever manages us will need to work with a decent chunk of the current squad there may be an awkward decision for them to make sadly.
This season is going to get even more brutal though if he doesn't do anything to grind out results when we need them, and he was contradictory in his message:
"We need a run of wins to restore confidence but we can't achieve that playing my style because we don't have the right players. I also won't change a thing so guess it sucks to play for me right now."
Where does that leave us? Morale rock bottom, players form totally shot and entering a window with virtually zero chance of shifting players due to quality/wage expectations/them needing to take a serious dip in career prestige.
I reckon in a year's time when the club realises whoever manages us will need to work with a decent chunk of the current squad there may be an awkward decision for them to make sadly.
It was a much more balanced and better side until Sancho and Cristiano got signed and all vibes went out of the window.
We just proceeded to replace all the deadwood with incredibly expensive deadwood
Maybe if he tries and plays a formation he doesn't believe in it will be worse, Ten Hag bought most of these players for whatever formation he was playing and he couldn't get a tune out of them either, so I don't see why Amorim should do something that is alien to him.
We took on a manager who didn't want the job until the summer for good reason, and he told everyone who would listen that he only plays this formation, he will have been hired with everyone that matters knowing this, so I don't see why he should flex for anyone. If he falls on his sword doing it then so be it, but I will be alot more worried if we get rid of Amorim before we get rid of most of these players.
The reality is they knew what they were hiring, and now have to back him.
Diallo on the benchIt was a much better side until Sancho and Cristiano got signed and all vibes went out of the window.
We just proceeded to replace all the deadwood with incredibly expensive deadwood
Is it though? I wasn't around then but I have to assume early 70s we were worse.
We got relegated ffs.
I read a lot about the players not caring but I think that the majority do care. Except for one or two players, the rest do seem to be trying - has been like this since the beginning of ETH. An argument can be made that they are not good enough, but to put all the blame on the players is unfair. Amorim sets the team up well when we are the clear underdogs, but when it is us who are expected to win (form or our position in the table is never taken into account - for we are always expected to win) it is clear that Amorim doesn't have any flexibility.
If there is one thing throughout all measures of life that signifies a massive weakness it is the desire to systemise. And Amorim will not change because he loves - not just numerous systems - but one system; his system. The players are clearly struggling in his system and it is up to the manager to adapt - it is not weakness in doing so. Reminds me of those blue on blue accounts during the Vietnam war between American privates and their commanding captains - some captains were so inflexible that his squad purposefully shot and killed him - making it seem like an accident. Take the analogy lightly of course, but I hope Amorim can be more flexible.
Ole has proven to be our best manager Post Fergie. Ronaldo ruined him, but all in all, apart from not being fancy with tactics, he did seem to get a consistent tune from his team. Overall, it's been a mixture of poor signings, wrong managers (Moyes epitomising what has become the deadly disease - wanting to cling onto the past). Still think Amorim will do well, but if push comes to shove, I would like to see a manager who knows how to speak to players and knows how to set up team according to their strengths.
If there is one thing throughout all measures of life that signifies a massive weakness it is the desire to systemise. And Amorim will not change because he loves - not just numerous systems - but one system; his system. The players are clearly struggling in his system and it is up to the manager to adapt - it is not weakness in doing so. Reminds me of those blue on blue accounts during the Vietnam war between American privates and their commanding captains - some captains were so inflexible that his squad purposefully shot and killed him - making it seem like an accident. Take the analogy lightly of course, but I hope Amorim can be more flexible.
Ole has proven to be our best manager Post Fergie. Ronaldo ruined him, but all in all, apart from not being fancy with tactics, he did seem to get a consistent tune from his team. Overall, it's been a mixture of poor signings, wrong managers (Moyes epitomising what has become the deadly disease - wanting to cling onto the past). Still think Amorim will do well, but if push comes to shove, I would like to see a manager who knows how to speak to players and knows how to set up team according to their strengths.
God, that was a much better team than the current one. DamningIt was a much more balanced and better side until Sancho and Cristiano got signed and all vibes went out of the window.
We just proceeded to replace all the deadwood with incredibly expensive deadwood
Some bias looking at your username
Well Yoro got ourpaced plenty last game so there's that. Maybe Diallo. He seems quite fast.
That’s incorrect. The result of the derby was irrelevant, as United required both West Ham and Birmingham to lose to stay up. Neither did. If anyone’s goal relegated United, it was Bob Hatton scoring the winner against Norwich that day.
Exactly.
Amorim is struggling, no doubt. The tactical side is one thing, I think he's been tactically good. But the lack of consistency of performance, or rather the consistency of poor performances, he's clearly struggling with just as his predecessors were. He said in the interview after the Liverpool win that there is "something else" than tactics going on that's wrong with the team and he has difficulty understanding it.
But the rule applies - he came in midseason, he had no hand in shaping the squad at all, he deserves patience. That means he is granted a period where he can be struggling without absolute judgement. This includes basically all of this season, giving a new manager no single preseason makes no sense.
As for your second quote, I posted it elsewhere - that patience cuts both ways. The players too deserve patience to grow into playing under Amorim, and yes, it is a manager's job to get the best out of a squad and improve the performances of the players that are there. Else we wouldn't have needed to hire a new one.
So if people grant Amorim time and patience, in the meantime it makes no sense to berate all the players as useless and shit. This is our team, it needs to get better together, manager and players. Notwithstanding sensible transfers of course.
I’ve been saying exactly the same for a while as I refuse to believe that Amass would do worse than Dalot or Mazraoui at left wing back or how Kukonki and Obi-Martin are talked up as generational talents yet aren’t given a few minutes,
You look through the reserves and academy and there’s Harrison, Vitek, Kukonki, Amass, Kone, the Fletcher’s, Ibragimov, Biancheri, Lacey, Mantato and Obi-Martin and after years of watching so called established senior players putting on disgusting performances over and over I’d rather see the kids given a chance and realise their potential.
What does that mean to most posters? Get us competing for top 4, win some minor trophies, a few adventures into the latter stages of Europa? Because that's pretty much what we just sacked.
More than that is getting us competing for the biggest prizes and consistently in the champions league. I'm not sure we will be able to do that with a manager that won't adapt and has adopted a squad totally opposed to his style
I don't see hw this is a helpful thing for a manager to say and its definitely not factually correct as there isn't even anything in it that you can qunatify as a fact.
We're cetainly a very poor United team and were befre he set foot in the club, but its not like we've gotten any better under him. Arguably we have become even worse. Take the moments of individual quality from Amad out of the equation and he'd have us in the relegation zone atm...which sounds sensationalist but IS a fact. Look at the results and who got the goals/assists and work it out.
We aren't going to get anywhere when the manager of the team thinks him and his players are the crappest team in the history of the club.
He shouldn't be getting a by for coming out with destructive statements like that just because he's new.
We're cetainly a very poor United team and were befre he set foot in the club, but its not like we've gotten any better under him. Arguably we have become even worse. Take the moments of individual quality from Amad out of the equation and he'd have us in the relegation zone atm...which sounds sensationalist but IS a fact. Look at the results and who got the goals/assists and work it out.
We aren't going to get anywhere when the manager of the team thinks him and his players are the crappest team in the history of the club.
He shouldn't be getting a by for coming out with destructive statements like that just because he's new.
Really good post, can agree with all of that. It's fine to acknowledge he's struggling, doesn't mean I want him out at all. If he is to succeed, I would fully expect it will be with quite a few of the current players
Have you watched the press conference, before you make up your mind?
Even the title of the thread misquotes him removing some of the nuance you're referring to. The answer to the question starts around 3:10.
Some bias looking at your username
Nah he is right in fairness. Cavani is twice the striker than our current options. Pogba had more talent in his left toe than any of our current crop bar maybe Diallo. We still had Matic able to perform at a decent level if needed who was a miles better midfielder than anything we have and the cnut on the right wing who was an incredible talent.
Of course he's right, was just a joke about the McFred username. It wasn't a stellar squad, but it was capable of decent performances
Ha - my username was chosen to remind myself that things could never get that bad in midfield again. Sadly I was very very wrongSome bias looking at your username
I made a few edits to clarify.
I am just sick of the "it's this or that". A new manager absolutely does not deserve a wholly new squad. What he deserves is decent backing in coming transfer windows and time to work with the current and evolving squad. And the players deserve not to be completely abused all of the time.
As for the quote, I think he is really eager not to euphemize anything and to me it seems like that is meant to be directed at the fans in order to communicate that he understands the fundamental frustration of the situation.
It was clear as mud at the start of the season. Everyone on here was asking the same question - where were our goals coming from? We had a Rashford who had been out of sorts for a year, Rasmus who was potential but we didn't have a supply line for him, Garnacho who was a moments player, and Anthony - the less said the better. Everyone could see that we were paper thin in attack.
I feel the club felt that Greenwood was such an obvious star that they didn't recruit anyone else in that space for years and now we're feeling the consequences. The academy, which once was a good source of players, is rather lacking in ready made players to step up. Most of the big hopes are in the U18s rather than the U21s.
I don't know how you fix it now. We really need a number of talents players who can come in with the necessary confidence, strength, pace, stamina and skill. What top level talents are going to come here - Brighton, Forest, Bournemouth, Villa would all feel like better options for any player without an inbuild allegence to Man Utd (probably with more ready funds available).
One thing that's been very clear to me is that our problems are anything but clear. It's not only the manager, nor is it only the players, the owners, the structure, you name it. It's a volatile combination of all of that and then some, and if I knew how to fix it, I might work a more lucrative job
Maybe he's right, but it's insanely bad style in my eyes. I don't see how this benefits the playing squad at all. He himself says that the players lack confidence and are afraid of making mistakes, and then he kicks them while they are down by confirming to them that they are, in fact, miserable. How will it benefit their confidence and give them courage?
But of course he gets to point the responsibility away from himself and onto those who have brought in the players.
But of course he gets to point the responsibility away from himself and onto those who have brought in the players.
I feel like this is one of those “and this is what’s wrong with ____” moments.
Have some mental toughness. If a professional athlete is so mentally fragile that they “quiet quit” over that, they should just find another line of work entirely.
He's probably fuming with them inside and quite rightly too.
This has gone on for too long I don't have a problem with him having a go at them publicly. Might help him see which ones have the fight to improve and which ones will just carry on doing the same things.
He didn't pick an individual out he spoke as a team from what I remember.
I said it in his first week, if he relies too much on the first team squad alone it's going to cost him. He has ignored the youth so far and some who are on the fringes and it has happened.
There is no way United can afford 5 - 8 top players he needs to have a working system, the wingbacks and young CMs looked like low hanging fruits that he has ignored. Come summer we will maybe afford two or three good players, the rest of the amateurs will then drag the whole team down like they have done to the current new batch, assuming he would have survived, he will get the sack when we struggle.
However blending youthful exuberance, talent and bravery with some of the experienced veterans we have might just enable us to pull through this season and, more importantly, help us to lift the physical and technical flooring of the team and reduce the number of players he needs signed immediately.
Certainly the worst United team in Premier league era but not entire history
At times Amorim talks like at outsider. He’s the manager, it’s his job to improve the team.
While I agree, I honestly don’t know how many of these players can be improved. They are shocking.
It’s not his team. It’s a bunch of guys that weren’t even good enough for the system they were built for. Not his fault. I agree that there’s no point in him playing a system he doesn’t know just to fit bad players when it makes more sense to see what players can make it in his system and get them experience there. The fact is, not only do we have players that don’t fit the system positionally, but the players are also not athletic enough to do it. We would be better Brightons squad because they’re infinitely more athletic.
I don’t think this is the time or environment to throw them in, we’ll sign four or five players in the summer, maybe one this window. I’m sure we’ll see some of the younger players brought into the squad as well.
Throwing 16-18 year olds in now is unlikely to be beneficial to them or the team.
I would say the board has to become more ruthless when it comes to weighing up the current manager's performances. Only a few managers deserve time after having proved themselves previously in the very top leagues and competitions, but for the rest, if they are going to be manager of this club, and the board wants the club to be always at the top - then I would suggest that they ignore the club's 'history and heritage', and sack managers who clearly aren't improving the team. I would ignore the manager's plea for 'more time' in order to set down their ideals. Of course, all this requires a competent board.
Realistically, we have to accept that we won't be challenging for the title. But, heck, as a previous poster stated: Nottingham Forrest were on the verge of relegation last season, and now they are likely to make top 4 this season.
regarding us posters who are all fans - well, as we know, all fans are fickle! There'll always be something to complain about.
I hear you but these kids live for opportunities like these and their energy could actually help. Looking at the first goal and how Maz was just ball watching as Mitoma was attacking and how no one busted a gut to cut his run into the box, I don't think it's acceptable and a talented kid looking to make a name for himself busts a gut to retrieve the situation.
If Amad gets serious injury we are screwed,.
It doesn't matter what he says at this point. We are where we deserve to be and nothing is going to change that.
I don't think we need to replace everyone, but the way the current regime wants to operate by finding a good deal here and there and buying young talent won't cut it. We can do that long term once we have enough quality that can support young players, but the one thing that is clear to me is that we're extremely lacking in top quality, which comes at a huge prices. The team is devoid of world class players and big personalities. We need ready players otherwise we'll fall farther.
This club still needs new ownership to move forward.
I don't think we need to replace everyone, but the way the current regime wants to operate by finding a good deal here and there and buying young talent won't cut it. We can do that long term once we have enough quality that can support young players, but the one thing that is clear to me is that we're extremely lacking in top quality, which comes at a huge prices. The team is devoid of world class players and big personalities. We need ready players otherwise we'll fall farther.
This club still needs new ownership to move forward.
12 years ago we had wayne rooney and robin Van Persie as forwards.
Paul Scholes and Michael Carrick in Midfield.
Ferdiannd and Vidic at the back.
Now we have two kids who barely make a player between them, a 19 year old still finding his feet, and as much as maguire and de ligt have done OK recently, they aren;t even close to the level our defenders once were.
Every year, we replace our players with poorer versions of themselves. Its been hapenning for over a decade. Yet people still pretend this is not the case.
He was right to say it, the problem we have is that while a decade of that is the glazers management, nothing much has changed under the man from Monaco. Unless it does, the only way we are going is downhill, you could have Sir Alex himself in the hot seat and that wouldn't change.
Paul Scholes and Michael Carrick in Midfield.
Ferdiannd and Vidic at the back.
Now we have two kids who barely make a player between them, a 19 year old still finding his feet, and as much as maguire and de ligt have done OK recently, they aren;t even close to the level our defenders once were.
Every year, we replace our players with poorer versions of themselves. Its been hapenning for over a decade. Yet people still pretend this is not the case.
He was right to say it, the problem we have is that while a decade of that is the glazers management, nothing much has changed under the man from Monaco. Unless it does, the only way we are going is downhill, you could have Sir Alex himself in the hot seat and that wouldn't change.