Oh good lord
Amorim: «We are maybe the worst team in Man United history»
- Thread starter rio's upper lip
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Really?
I thought it was a clever thing to say from a clever manager, because it's true (not the history bit), how exactly is he arrogant to say something every fan is thinking, some of you are really overreacting.
I personally don't care whether players are motivated or not by what he says, I'm tired of the pampering for these so called high paid pre madonnas, aww poor lads, their confidence is going to be shot?? Give them more money to wipe their tears.
The players are underperforming, maybe they should have a long hard look in the mirror instead of letting managers take the fall - absolute sick of it now.
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Oh I just can't be bothered - much. Your insanity paragraph is what the club has done times a million. Let him get on with it he's got the balls to say it all has to change.
It's arrogant for him to say he will change nothing in the wake of his disastrous reign so far.
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Let him get on with changing nothing in the hope that his totally demotivated players will suddenly see the light? What has done it for me is he won't consider changing things to get results. He doesn't feel he needs to. The arrogance of the man is as great as his undoubted personality.
And when I use the word 'arrogant' I i dont mean he is rude or condescending. I mean that he has an exaggerated sense of his own importance and abilities. To believe his way has to be stuck to when everything is imploding is just narrow-minded.
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Well ok let's see how it goes. I'm far more happy to do that then get into a pointed argument like some did yesterday.
You do realise we've watched this team play really good against Liverpool, Arsenal and City, and then go and underperform. Same formation, same players
We go see Dalot play a blinder against Liverpool and then have stinkers in so many other games
We go see Onana having world class saves then end up having ridiculous clown moments
We see our strikers and attack rubbish at finishing because of transfers that hasn't worked
We see players, time and time again being inconsistent when literally we see them play brave against the top teams but scared and not bothered against other teams because they're lower and need to show creativity and some balls to win the game
Let's bring in a new manager shall we, and when results go downhill again, CAF: why didn't the manager do this, why didn't he play this way, why didn't he play this player, why did he leave out this player, why did he alienate this player, why is saying this in press conferences, he got the first 11 wrong, he got the formation wrong, what is he doing in training, what are the coaches doing, why is the manager making them run too much getting the players injured, why is the manager not showing any charisma, why is the manager stubborn and arrogant
There's always an excuse blaming managers to protect these bums
There’s always a case for sugar-coating a steaming pile, but after what we witnessed yesterday the manager had every right, and I would say duty, to call out the poverty of that performance. It will hurt the players psychologically, but they have to be called out for yet another incredibly poor performance. Let us see if they respond or if they capitulate even further. Mind you, we had the upper hand in this match until we threw it all away with mistake after mistake.
There is no excuse for refusing to change things when it is clear the system isn't working with these players. By his own admission we are probably the worst team in Man Utd history. So how on earth can he say things won't change tactically. And he must take responsibility for this by fitting the players to the system no matter whether they fit, rather than fitting the system to the players at his disposal.
Van Nistelrooy actually got an initial bounce from these players. Amorim hasn't even had that.
He takes no responsibility as the manager who has created the team gameplay and tactics that have so woefully failed? Really?
We are far too defensive when we aren’t playing Arsenal / Liverpool /City. Our attacking threat was Amad , Bruno and Zirkzee (stick with me) yesterday . We had 8 defensively minded players out there yesterday and we had ZERO shots on target from open play. It’s not rocket science.
Whilst I hear you on the zero shots and having more defenders, I also believe had Amorim play an EtH formation, we are still losing that game for me. For me our attackers aren't great, bar bruno and amad we don't have anyone else that creates, we have strikers who can't finish, we have defenders who can't defend and Onana. I blame personnel more than formation because at the end of the day we still had our best attacking players who were available on the pitch!
And part of me wishes he does change the formation just to wait for the inevitable shite performances and losses that we had under EtH so then the caf can move on to another excuse like how he isnt picking the right players or his doing nothing in training.
Eventually, it seems this place forget how bad the players are and always end up turning on managers even when they seem to be 2 months in the job, because "its always the managers fault"
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I don’t care what the manager says; let the team’s performance do the talking.
A proper manager would recognize his system wasn’t working and make changes. But Amorim has dug in his heels and refuses to change.
Had we hired Sean Dyche and his bunker defense system, we’d be higher in the table.
Completely fair position. If we'd brought in someone with a similar formation and style to ETH but just without chaos ball tactics then yeah we'd have finished in the European places. But we did the nuclear thing that was hated during Woodward's era of going for a completely different style of play except during midseason and it's blown up on us so far.
INEOS will have to back him with time and funds or be thought of as even more incompetent than people might be wondering right now.
One thing I thought of yesterday was that the United hierarchy has done it's best over the years to take power and decision making away from the manager, so why is only the manager that has to face the media interrogation twice a week?
Why doesn't the CEO Berrada, Ratcliffe, Blanc or any of the other execs have to face the media scrutiny or do interviews?
They blast the manager weekly with tens of interviews and press conferences but he's "just a coach" after all. I want to hear from the cnuts making all the other decisions away from coaching too. Where's the accountability for the scouting and recruitment guys?
Why doesn't the CEO Berrada, Ratcliffe, Blanc or any of the other execs have to face the media scrutiny or do interviews?
They blast the manager weekly with tens of interviews and press conferences but he's "just a coach" after all. I want to hear from the cnuts making all the other decisions away from coaching too. Where's the accountability for the scouting and recruitment guys?
Yep. Fans love to back the manager to the hilt. He really should be getting us to show some kind of positive consistency by the end of the season. He won't be fired if he doesn't but would help to boost the fan confidence in him and his methods.
That would be a completely not smart thing to do as a professional player. Football clubs usually only want loyalty one way, no matter how much you love something you have to look out for yourself. A club will quickly knife a player in the back.
Because you would be hurting results in the future and also it's insulting to the manager.
Well, its hard to build a Ferrari with Volkswagen parts. I will agree to a point that perhaps the system, with the players he has, is not the best road to success, but reality here people, this team is not that good. My fear is that he will bring in players from his past who are use to a slower paced game and the results will not change ala ETH. Not sure how to get out of this quagmire. More to the point, there will be a revenue hit with 0 qualifications. This will hamper transfers and probably result in a selloff. The first to go should be Bruno to clear the dead rot and rid the team of cancers. Rashford should bring some cash in as well, not the total from a couple of years ago, but something at least. Casemiro, Eriksen have had their day, Antony never panned out, Zirkzee has some skill but lacks speed and some grit. A lot of so-so players gives to the results and standings. Rebuild.
Pretty much every player does this at every club if they can. Nonsense.
I agree. Absolutely not something to be said in public. Usually only said by managers who are close to getting the chop.
Are people forgetting he didn't even want to come to us midseason and asked for United to wait until summer? They've practically forced him here earlier than he wanted because he probably anticipated such struggles. The players aren't good enough full stop and asking him to change his system is ridiculous, you bring in a cleaner, hand them gardening tools and ask them to try and make the bathroom sparkle. He's finding out what players he can plan a future with and it's quickly becoming obvious, it's not very many. If anyone is to blame here it's the directors for bringing him in early knowing we weren't ready for him. He's a football manager not a miracle worker. At the minute it's just square pegs in round holes all over.
I think the problem is that we just need better players. So many of these players were shit in Ten Hag’s formation as well. I feel good players, for the most part, will thrive no matter the system
We haven't won back to back PL games this season. Let that sink in.
Of course this is the worst United team in the PL era but also all time given the amount of money that has been thrown at it relative to teams in the past.
Talk about shooting the messenger.
Of course this is the worst United team in the PL era but also all time given the amount of money that has been thrown at it relative to teams in the past.
Talk about shooting the messenger.
Like playing four at the back and still not improving.
The system wasn't working before Amorim. It's a lack of professionalism from the players, they just will not put in the effort game after game. They've shown they can do it (City, iverpool, Arsenal) so why don't they against other teams?
This is the only way to explain it. It was not even a backs to the wall performance against City and Liverpool. We created plenty of chances and almost matched them for possession for the first time since LvG - only because the players were fully committed and focused.
They could have come out blazing against Brighton but retreated into old bad habits. It is thoroughly unprofessional and it is time somebody threw them under the bus.
I fully endorse the idea that sometimes you have to do some demolition and rebuilding rather than a patch job. It is, however, much easier to do the demolition than the rebuild—and takes a lot less skill. Hope he knows what he’s doing, because it’s the right thing to do.
I agree about Ruud. That said, I think they honestly thought that the Glazers were so incompetent that no manager could succeed under them and he deserved more time. I partly understand the logic but he was obviously appalling at transfers and deserved no input.
Again, hard to say why Amorim is choosing to pick Maz and Dalot at WBs given the lack of attacking threat, but i can only assume he has seen things to beleive that Garnaco is a worse option than Dalot/Maz.
Plus, you put Garna, or Amad, as a wing back, and what do we have off the bench to change a game or to play further upfield? Antony is gone, Rashford is Awol. We have 4 forwards left in Amad, Hojlund, Zirkzee and Garnacho.
Then we have 3 midfielders he trusts in Mainoo, Bruno and Ugarte. Casemiro and Eriksen he can't trust to start games. Thankfully we have Collyer breaking through for the numbers.
We are deepest in defence, to maybe this is part of the thinking too?
Agree, there was no press. But is that part of the instruction, not to press? Surely not. Amorims Sporting team was famous for pressing high and from the front.
You are right about De Ligt pushing forward. Amorim seems to actually be telling either he, or it could be Ugarte to cover the free man in midfield. De Ligt looks across to Amorim before moving towards the free man. Though the player that played the pass didn't see De Ligt push. More likely he saw Matoma starting to make his run on Maz and Maz being squared up.
I mean, this whole picture is a mess really. The man on the ball has 4 open passing options - one out of shot at CB.
I don't know if this is "system" or individual mistakes. Amorim can't be telling Mainoo to be marking no one. Yoro is pushing up higher than Dalot.
Yes, its a high(ish) line, but the other option is what? Be 15 yards deeper and have the huge gap between defence and forwards, like we did under ETH?
Ball over the top like this is a bad one to concede.
Agree, there was confusion in defence. Yoro out of position, Maguire stepping upto the ball when he should have stayed on his man. Dalot coming inside to cover Maguires man.
But if you look at Maz, he had no idea Matoma was behind him. He checks inside two or three times when tracking back, but never over his left shoulder. I was a good cross though, but to not know you have a man behind you is criminal. Especially given he skinned you after 4 mins.
I think Collyer is a good shout and given Mainoo has been abject of late, perhaps Bruno is too. But are we just hoping that putting Bruno there will make us more solid? If Mainoo continues to be as poor as he has been post injury, losing Bruno further upfield isnt great either.
And does a Mainoo and Garnaco switch to a 10 and WB respectively really help some of the madness we have seen at the back? Or the lack of press? Or the fact our forwards cant hold the ball up for sh1t. Im not sure.
Maybe Rangers is the chance to see.
All good points. Case/Eriksen v Newcastle was a shocker. He had been dealt bad cards with Ugarte and Bruno being out. Again though, those goals were preventable - Martinez being left to win duels v much bigger players.
It makes me think that is this just a system that you need well coached, technical players to play in it? I don't believe the system cant work as Amorim beat Arsenal and City with it. His two title winning Sporting teams would be top 4 in the PL, easily imo.
My working theory is that these players were poorly coached under ETH. Ten Hag never got them playing an identifiable style of football. I think he let them play ad hoc and hoped Bruno, Rashford etc would dig us out with some magic. Moments FC.
Amorim comes in and is really trying to coach them through games and some of the positions that players are taking up are unfamiliar - Yoro pushing into midfield for example. Is it just that these players are just not used to playing under any strict instruction so that when Amorim comes in, it is just to much information to compute. A bit like when you go on holiday, you come back to work and your brain doesn't work for a week.
It does feel that Amorim is trying to fly the plane while changing the engine with these lot. I don't think the thought it would be such a struggle with them.
I hope this gets the desired result and doesn't make the situation more toxic. Don't love it to be honest Mainoo, Garnacho, Amad, and Collyer are all really young. So is Zirkzee still for that matter who just joined to club.
Do you think it's going to make him more composed in front of goal knowing he was the missing piece to the worst United side in history? What about Rasmus? Maybe booing his every touch will get him going.
Do you think it's going to make him more composed in front of goal knowing he was the missing piece to the worst United side in history? What about Rasmus? Maybe booing his every touch will get him going.
The more time that passes the more pissed off I am about this quote… it’s so cowardly and destructive, and I hate the reaction of some sections of our fans who absolutely revel in this self sabotage just because “he’s telling the truth” or they vibe off the aggressiveness of it.
If my team were performing badly at work it would be ludicrous to gather them all together and tell them they were the worst team I’d ever worked with, unless I wanted things to go from bad to catastrophic.
But a closer analogy might be emailing the whole company and telling them my team are shit, or perhaps posting about it on my Linked In about how my team are all shit - or arranging an interview with the industry press to say my team are all shit.
There’s also this weird notion about “the team” and it being this entity we can direct our ire at and who need publicly humiliating. I’d challenge anyone to go through the team lineup from the weekend and say who the bad apples are, but also which ones they think Amorim’s quote will get a positive reaction out of?
I can tell you which ones I think are way below United standard, and which ones are low on confidence or struggling with the system - but this strategy of throwing them under the bus doesn’t really resolve either issue does it?
Everyone lost their mind about the Seville football heritage Mourinho rant but it pales in comparison to this.
Perhaps my biggest frustration overall is I really wanted Amorim to work out and I’m becoming rapidly less convinced that it will.
If my team were performing badly at work it would be ludicrous to gather them all together and tell them they were the worst team I’d ever worked with, unless I wanted things to go from bad to catastrophic.
But a closer analogy might be emailing the whole company and telling them my team are shit, or perhaps posting about it on my Linked In about how my team are all shit - or arranging an interview with the industry press to say my team are all shit.
There’s also this weird notion about “the team” and it being this entity we can direct our ire at and who need publicly humiliating. I’d challenge anyone to go through the team lineup from the weekend and say who the bad apples are, but also which ones they think Amorim’s quote will get a positive reaction out of?
I can tell you which ones I think are way below United standard, and which ones are low on confidence or struggling with the system - but this strategy of throwing them under the bus doesn’t really resolve either issue does it?
Everyone lost their mind about the Seville football heritage Mourinho rant but it pales in comparison to this.
Perhaps my biggest frustration overall is I really wanted Amorim to work out and I’m becoming rapidly less convinced that it will.
I think at the moment a lot of people are reacting emotionally to everything that gets said. My read of that statement was Amorim trying to own the situation rather than throw the team under the bus. I think he was was saying ‘you’ll be writing this tomorrow’ and we know and we are working to fix it. He’s a far better communicator than Ten Hag but maybe too honest in some respects.
Similarly I think people are latching on to his quote of ‘I have one idea and won’t change’ to suggest there is zero flexibility. He may want to always line up with a back three but at Sporting he did adapt his tactics for different opposition and personnel as players were bought and sold.
I know he said it’s going to be a rollercoaster but think we need to see some kind of progress against ‘weaker’ opposition soon or it’s going to get really quite awkward.
I hear you mate, and I am equally frustrated that a manager comes out and says we are the worst team in the history of the club, but to me, it seems Amorim is running out of ideas on how to motivate this set of players, and that's what I want to say on the bolded, the team for me is the collective, not the individual, in my opinion, the reason we are this bad is that the team/players do not work well as a group, something is off, the only times you see them do it when they are away vs a fav like City or Liverpool or Arsenal, they horrible vs the saints, and vs BHA at OT, you could see that Amad tried his best, so did Bruno, Zirkzee was fine, but our WBs and CMs were horrific, our CBs did not step out when needed, it just felt like watching bunch of strangers playing together for the first time, i felt the same way during EtH time, and it keeps happening with Amorim as well.
I am also not absolving Amorim here, he has to find a solution to a very obvious problem, doesn't mean he can't play his fav formation, but he can adjust the roles and tweak the style, accept this team's limitations and let them play basic and defensive/counter attacking football, it might not win us a lot of games but it ensure we do not easily lose.
My take is that this was meant for the players more than anyone else. Perhaps some bad eggs aren't up to playing in the current formation and hope they can force his hand.
It is like the manager is booing his team in the open. Not good.
To be honest to me it sounded more about results than actively saying the players are shit. I know it's implied but still
Equally, if the players are offended then show them the table
Equally, if the players are offended then show them the table
I think it was a silly thing to say that didn't help anyone, but I agree it was about the results, not the players. I'm also sure he included himself in that assessment, even if the headline doesn't really sound like it
Yeah maybe he should come out and support them, talk about the process instead…
I knew this daft fan reaction would happen when he was brought in mid season if things didn't start off well.
Every sign was there already that we have, at best a mid table performing squad playing under ETH. The rest of this season should be used to get them playing his system. feck the results, and feck the idea of pressuring him into going to something else just to get a few shit wins in the short term
Every sign was there already that we have, at best a mid table performing squad playing under ETH. The rest of this season should be used to get them playing his system. feck the results, and feck the idea of pressuring him into going to something else just to get a few shit wins in the short term