Outside of the pace, not sure he’s much alike Walker — Davies is the guy who plays striker and no.10 for Canada. Don't think he has ever played that conservative role that Walker does (and can because he’s just as strong as he is fast).
Alphonso Davies
- Thread starter davidmichael
- Start date
No thank you. I wouldn't want us to pay him crazy wages and would prefer us to target one of the other players who are linked (Fernandez, Kerkez, Aït Nouri etc). Failing that, perhaps Garnacho will be tried there but only if we are happy with him inverting of course. We also have Amass waiting in the wings.
Unrelated and rather irrationally, I feel that Semenyo could make a decent wing-back.
Unrelated and rather irrationally, I feel that Semenyo could make a decent wing-back.
Well it is a free transfer.
It is not?
Besides the signing fee that his agent expects for an established world class* player.
So its free as anyone buying him does not need to pay Bayern a transfer fee.
You will also note that players get signing on fees and agent fees even though they are not on a free.
Also, he is not a world class player.
It is strange that from all people, Bayern fan is having this kind of opinion. Bayern signed a lot of quality players in this way.
1. Signing on fee is always present in every transfer. Only difference is that for free player you need to pay extra. So, in this case, instead lets say 10 mil, you will need to pay 20-25 mil. As i recall, you paid to Lewa around 20 mil. And Real paid to Alaba similiar fee.
2. Player like Davies is easily worth 50-60 mil so paying that extra 10-15 mil is worth it.
3. He is 24. You can always sell him and earn profit from him.
They would, my point was, since when did our maximum outlay for the position become defined by what Carreras would ask? The fact that Davies would earn more than Carreras is like, ‘so what?’ to me. It would be a more pertinent point of Carreras was better. Like with your Yamal/Rashford comparison. It makes sense to use those two because there’s an obvious argument of Yamal providing better value if he earns less than Rashford, due to also being better right now.
Given that Davies is better than Carreras, what is the fixation on signing an inferior player because he will earn less? It is logical that he will earn less. It becomes an issue if whatever Davies asks is beyond us, and if it is, then fine. But if we decide it isn’t, why would we not go and get the better player if we can afford to? It’s like City saying why sign Rodri when Marc Roca would have cost less? Or to use a more relevant example, why aren’t Real after Carreras instead of Davies as his wages are lower?
I don’t see why we should not bring players in on big wages. Are Manchester United not supposed to be top payers or something? The number one criteria should be bringing in the right player. We are fortunate to be one of the few clubs who can afford to pay for the right player if we identify them.
I don't know exactly what you want from me, or why the club I support is relevant, but go off. Of course you always pay a fee and of course it's bigger if you don't have to pay the club. I'm not even concerned with whether Davies is worth it, I just find it amusing that people act as if he wouldn't cost 10-20m on top of his high salary. No idea why you're reacting so strongly.
You have a different definition of "free" than me.
Never disputed that.
Hence me putting the * next to it.
Outside of the pace (and strength) is a very big outside though. Ultimately, they are both freakishly athletic full backs, so that option is there for both to be used to stop counters. I don’t rate Walker at all (outside of his pace), so the fact that Davies has other uses makes him even more appealing to me, but I still think as a LB, he would have great use in 1v1s and recoveries. I’d like to see Salah bully him like he has bullied so many for us over the years!
Yes, hence its called a free transfer... not a free signing.
It was a weird point to make in the first place. Every transfer has a signing on fee and agent fees. You obviously know that when people refer to a free transfer they're referring to the absence of a transfer fee so you were just being pedantic.
No just amused.
I’m not saying our maximum outlay should be defined by what wage Carreras would demand. I’m saying our maximum outlay should be less than 200-300k a week for a left wing back.
Our wage bill has been a joke for a long while now, and players see us as a payday rather than a serious club at which to win trophies. The only way we can address that in the short to medium term is to stop paying silly wages for a while.
City can afford to pay massive wages to a world class operator like Rodri because they have a cohesive squad full of hungry to win professionals from top to bottom. They are also in a position to pay their biggest earners off book via their state owned infrastructure so comparing us to them is stupid when we have very real financial regulation restraints to address.
You are also speaking about Carreras as if he is a nothing player and hasn’t spent the past 12 months delivering better defensive and attacking output than Davies in a weaker side and a releatively similar strength of league. Davies is the better player because he’s been higher profile for longer, but let’s see what the perception is of both players 6 months after their next moves.
A big club is going to move for Carreras if we don’t. We used to be the club that did that with the younger, emerging talents and not the meal ticket club for the greediest agents in Europe. We’ve been trying it your way for 10 years now and how many times has it paid out?
The judgment of Davies on here vs. the opinions of Mazraoui prior to his transfer is a very good example of "Youtube/Highlights scouting" imo.
It’s just this desperate need for the shiniest, flashiest, most expensive signing possible every window that has taken over the club and fan base for the last decade.
People don’t watch these players week in week out - it’s just whoever twitter and the latest issue from EA sports shouts the loudest about.
All aboard...
Again, your first three paragraphs basically speak to the importance of getting the ‘right’ player. The issue with players in the past has not been what they earn, it has been what they have contributed. Ultimately, if we feel that Davies is the right player, then we will keep going for the right player every time so long as we can afford to.
And our wage bill isn’t a joke at all. It is a wage bill commensurate with top football clubs, which is exactly what we are. We are not dwarfing other clubs in terms of wage bill, or wages to percentage of turnover. What has been a joke is our football team. And a poor team makes high wages poor value. But that doesn’t mean we can’t afford to pay what we pay. Us paying Antony a reported £200k p/w is not too much. Manchester United SHOULD be paying our starting forwards £200k pw, and we can afford to. The problem is that he has been rubbish. We would be far better off as a team paying a winger £350k who produced what Salah does than paying Antony £200k, and if we could be sure that would be the case, I’m sure it is a choice we would take every time despite the higher cost.
I say all that to say, signing Davies for £300k pw is not necessarily worse value than signing Carreras for £100k pw. If you can afford to pay loads of money, then your concern is who is better. Of course, it may not work out like that, but if you believe that to be so, then surely we need to go for it?
This isn’t an intended criticism of Alvaro either. He looks a good player, he always has. He has just never looked at Davies level, to me. And that isn’t due to ‘profile’ either. Or rather, I believe the difference in profile is due to the difference in quality. There have been a number of highly sought after, must have players playing in Portugal over the years. I’m saying that while Alvaro is good, I wouldn’t say he’s one of those. Davies on the market is an opportunity, a big opportunity for top clubs who can attract this level of player in their prime.
And again, while Davies would cost more in wages, some of that is also offset by the transfer fee we would need to pay Benfica.
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Choo choo!
Looks like we are in the mix as we should be. I think we will get him too.
Is another injury prone LB what we need?
Shaw about to turn elite again.
Is he a united fan? Think I seen before he was a big utd fan and that we missed out on him before he went to Munich! Could have made it up though. All for this signing. Big sign on and high wages but getting a very good player. Confused though how some people on here think free transfers are worse than paying fees. I'd have mbappe over zirkzee and hojlund no matter the wages. If I'm a top player,why not run the contract down and line my pocket by having my pick of which club to go to.
Don’t do it to yourselves lads.
Based on Amorim's first training video, the 3-4-3 system, and some of his displays under EtH, I think Shaw's days at fullback are long gone, and he's now pretty much completed his conversion into a left-sided CB.
Martinez benched then?
What's stopping him from playing this role you'd want to see from him, as a wingback?
He could also play LCB in a 3-man defense. He's tall, strong, powerful, fast, and a good ball progressor. He has the tools, just like Shaw.
The difference in carries and take ons is literally just down to the pace difference I'm guessing. Alvaro is quite slow isn't he? Whereas we all know how quick Davies is. I'm not sure the pace factor matters though for the position he'd play with us. Stamina, tenacity, technicality is what we're after. Defensively Alvaro looks levels above, does he have the Stamina to parade up and down the flank for 90 though?He'd be fantastic, but not if it means paying him £300k a week and a massive signing on fee to get him here.
I know Davies has been doing it for longer, and the Bundesliga is probably a little stronger than the Portugese league (although he plays for Bayern so most weeks I wouldn't say he's facing much harder opposition), but we have first option on a guy who would cost us a fraction of the price and is banging out performances every bit as good lately:
You don't need to worry about wide defenders being able to defend, that's old hat talk. Why do you think Trent is so highly rated, can't defend for toffee but can attack?
They say this every year. "United's budget is modest, they wont have a pot to piss in" and then you hear Bayern and Madrid are shitting themselves because we're outfoxing them at the negotiation table.
Ummm not sure if you’ve ever even watched Davies if you think he gives you the same assets as Kyle Walker. Both are very fast. That’s where the similarities end though.
Think this idea that Trent is a terrible defender is ill founded at this point.
He’s not Cafu but he’s average defensively. Certainly not Marcos Alonso or something.
Well for one, feck Trent, can't stand him haha. But I meant in Amorims system the wing backs need to be up and down the flanks, pressing constantly, winning the ball back and delivering either passes or crosses to present an attack. In a side point too reading some of the comments in this thread, kerkez is the perfect middle ground to Alvaro and Davies and will be better than both in time
I tend to agree. Even if you haven't watched Davies much these last years, it's still have been nearly impossible to miss the criticism he has received from Bayern fans. So why anyone would still call him world class is beyond me.
Regarding Mazraoui, the low expectations was also assisted by Bayern fans' not so glowing reports, despite his SoMe posts being highlighted as the main reason for his sale. Still shocked at how good he has been, though.
You're entitled to think what you want. I still think TAA is a terrible defender. But that's separate to what I think of him overall. I think he'd be a smashing player at Real and they'd get him to another level.
Clearly been earmarked as one of Amorim's top target. Seems like he's a perfect fit for his system, too. If he's seen as the better wingback when Maz was still at Bayern, I think he'd be good for us, too.
I also think it's fair to say that Bayarn has gotten a little stale in the last few years. This can also make top players perform under themselves.
He's objectively not a good defender but that's never been what he's been asked to do mainly. He'll have his odd match or 2 where he puts in a proper shift when he has a point to prove (like against Chelsea when he's facing Reece James)
He's got world class attributes and they shine through in attack but he's positionally naive and lacks the hunger/attitude on that end to be a consistently good defender.
I will say that he's gotten better at 1v1's under Slot this season.
I don’t think he’s a good defender either though. I think he’s pretty mediocre/average.
Just saying it seems many seem to think he’s basically a complete liability defensively and only adds to a team when in possession when I don’t really think that’s the case. Sure there’s clips of him getting skinned a bunch in specific scenarios but week to week it’s not as much the case. He’s mediocre. But he’s not leaking goals and chances from his side every week like some would have you think.