Yep, Mendes and Balde have potential but are not gettable. Udogie might be the best shot at a potential world class LB. His contract is stupid long though.
Alphonso Davies
- Thread starter davidmichael
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) review both the Everton and Bodø/Glimt victories at Old Trafford. Listen to the guys discuss 2 wins and 7 goals in the last week, analyse of the Amorim formation, focus on Amad and how he is playing, and also take a look at Hojlund, Rashford & Zirkzee – who starts v Arsenal?
We have one at our club, probably one of the best LB, LWB in football right now, unfortunately he is never fit
On paper:
----------------De Light-----------Yoro-----------Martinez----------------------
Dalot---------------------------------------------------------------------------Davies
With Mazz able to fill several positions it could be very good indeed. If Shaw can ever get fit he'd also be a great option. Add Branthwaite and that's a top class set of options IMO.
----------------De Light-----------Yoro-----------Martinez----------------------
Dalot---------------------------------------------------------------------------Davies
With Mazz able to fill several positions it could be very good indeed. If Shaw can ever get fit he'd also be a great option. Add Branthwaite and that's a top class set of options IMO.
I have to ask what is the relevance or issue?
I get where you are coming from with “younger” or cheaper wage options… but I really scratch my head as to why Alphonso Davies shouldn’t be number one on our list of left back for next summer.
He’s the best option, he’s free and he suits the style requirements for our managers system.
The only negative is competition and if we lose out to another club we just move down the list.
Quite obviously Maz over Dalot but also he'll likely in some games play a more attacking player in one of the wingback roles e.g a Garnacho etc
Yoro would be on the right of CB and next summer I would think Martinez would either play centrally or be on the bench for a new LCB who is more pacey and defend the wide space on their own (which is why Yoro would be RCB and not in the middle)
Likely why we are linked with Brainthwaite but maybe Amorim may suggest someone else. The wide CBs are going to need to defend the wide space on their own often, especially in games where we setup more attacking and put an attacker in the wing back role.
I am saying there aren't any world class LB's currently... not sure what more you want to know?
My personal opinion is I really like Ait Nouri, but if we can get Davies and the wages are not crazy then I think its a good choice because of his experience at a much higher level. I also think he's slightly underrated as a player due to lack of form and a few injuries.
Wages aside, signing players from PL rivals can end up quite expensive too, if say Wolves asked for 40m and he was getting 100k a week. vs Davies on 200k and 5-8m sign on. Over the course of a 5 year deal Davies is cheaper.
100k a week is roughly 25m over 5 season + the 40m fee would be 65m
200k a week is roughly 50m over 5 seasons + 5m fee would be 55m
So to be honest as long as we can deal with the wages like we did with De Ligt then I am game
Wages aside, signing players from PL rivals can end up quite expensive too, if say Wolves asked for 40m and he was getting 100k a week. vs Davies on 200k and 5-8m sign on. Over the course of a 5 year deal Davies is cheaper.
100k a week is roughly 25m over 5 season + the 40m fee would be 65m
200k a week is roughly 50m over 5 seasons + 5m fee would be 55m
So to be honest as long as we can deal with the wages like we did with De Ligt then I am game
Exactly. This is the thing right, if Davies asks for 250-300k, we are going back into the same mould as before. Davies is already on 200k with Bayern, Madrid both going to offer him deals, signing him without outbidding the other 2 becomes really difficult.
It all depends what type of LWB Amorim wants. I really like Ait Nouri too, there are a few options at LWB in the market, so we need to be shrewd.
Probably bs but I read somewhere it was £300k a week, cannot find it now, maybe I made it up
300k a week would put the deal at 80m overall cost vs 65m for Ait Nouri, again I don't think thats bad, but also I don't think we should have a player on 300k a week unless they are trulely world class.
Lets see what we do, numbers in the press are always overstated and we did get De Ligt to sign on less wages than he was at Bayern. Maybe 250k a week.
250k a week would put the cost for Davies at 67.2m vs 65m for Ait Nouri, made up numbers of course, but 250k isn't actually a bad deal given the opportunity.
Yep but then it all depends on what he wants as a sign on fee right? I dont think we should offer anything above 250k for various reasons.
1. If it does work, like we have seen with alot of our transfers, hard to get rid off at higher wages
2. In year 3, when we need to renew, he will want a pay rise.
So overall it would be quite expensive and paying that for a LWB is alot.
Don’t they want Davies on a free as well? The difference is they can talk to him in January, but the idea is basically the same. Their plan was to hope Yoro wanted Madrid enough that he’d wait until next summer. United offered 50m to sell now.
The exact same thing could happen with Bayern Munich, no? We offer them 20m for a player that’s going to leave in the summer for nothing.
Correct.
Their plan was to get Yoro on a free. The reason we got him was like you said, they wanted him on a free.
Its not just Yoro, Lille wanted the money too. Which is why he was sold to us.
Yep, we could offer them money and get the player but the difference is Madrid can actually also put down a contract for him.
Its not also guaranteed he leaves, Yoro had decided he will not resign, Davies has 3 options, stay, United or Madrid.
Of course, but it's irrelavant; if the club thinks he's the best option, they should make their case to the player without going over the top on wages.
Costs don't just amount to wages, if he doesn't work out we paid no fee and the overall cost at 250k is the same as the Ait Nouri example. So we could sell him for a relatively modest fee and be ok in terms of the balance sheet, since selling means we don't have to pay the wages.
If Ait Nouri fails he will have less clubs after him especially on 100k a week by the way, and no one is going to pay 40m for him, which is why signing from PL teams is risky due to the PL premium fees, this failing probably be worse on our balance sheet.
If we want a cheaper wages option, its probably better to look outside of the PL, but again players with less pedigree also carry risk
He is world class when you put him next to Shaw and Malacia, and he is one of the best LB's available to us either now or in the near future.
No more overpaying on wages please.
I understand. Obviously we both have different opinion what world class is.
My view of World class doesnt depend on whether said player is better than what we have.
The number of world class players must be huge on your list then
I like your sarcasm...I really do, but leaving that aside, we were talking about world class left backs, which, aren't that many.I understand. Obviously we both have different opinion what world class is.
My view of World class doesnt depend on whether said player is better than what we have.
The number of world class players must be huge on your list then
And Davies is one of the few 4-5 world class left backs currently in football.
If you think that definition is flawed, please name me which would be, based on your world class opinion, a world class left back.
He already stated, that in his opinion, there currently are no world class left backs. And I tend to agree.
I think you misunderstand me.
I think he is a good player but not world class.
I dont think there are any WC LB's right now. None of the top clubs have a WC LB, there are a few with potentials to get there but they need consistency.
To become WC imo you need to show being on top of your game for 2/3 years.
Whilst Davies can get there, he isn't there right now. We talk about world class LB /RB they deliver for the team. How much influence they have in their team?
World class players then deliver in big moments, big competition, big matches. How often has Davies done that?
I recall there being a big discussion 18 months ago about Saka being WC and many said he is / he isnt.. since then he has been influencing big football matches, against rivals and even in the CL against Bayern he scored a really good goal.
I don't think being one of the best in your position necessarily makes you a world class player. For instance, I only think Haaland, Kane and Lewandowski are world class strikers, so if neither of them played, I wouldn't put the next strikers such as Isak, Martinez, Gyokeres or Osimhen who are beneath them as world class.
I agree that there aren't any world class left backs at the moment. I don't even think there are any right ones other than Carvajal (before his injury, he won't get back to that level) and maybe Hakimi.
Yeah Theo. But the reality is fullbacks are also much tougher to rate these days then 20 years ago. So much depends on what they are asked to do and there are very few that are all around brilliant rampaging fullbacks.
As far as Davies goes, I struggle to think of many that would be more dangerous in that LWB position in the world. He’s not “world class” as a fullback but I think he could be as a flying wingback similar to what Frimpong was for Leverkusen last season. It all comes down to cost obviously and we are most likely running second to Madrid barring a huge outlay of money
He doesn’t need to be world class. He just needs to be top tier in his position. Our failings aren’t going to be down to not having 11 world class players.
Shaw is a much better player than Davies. Made of weetabix, but much better.
That's my thinking. How many LWB out there on Davies' level or better?
Theo?
Grimaldo?
Dimarco?
Whether we get him or not it would be silly not to try for him.
Think Davies is wildly overated and that Kerkez is certainly a better player. Ait Nouri as well. But I guess it will all come down to cost and availability as I can ‘t see Wolves or Bournemouth letting either go for less than 60.
I am very aware they are two different circumstances. However, Yoro could have waited a few months, signed for Madrid on a free and got a lovely signing on bonus. Instead he chose to come to United.
I was amazed we signed him. Crazy thing is Madrid could really use him now.
I believe we could well be in the mix for Davies. Why not? We just hired the hottest young coach in Europe. Also Kids from Canada who like football grow up watching the Premier League, not La Liga.
Unless you have a direct line to the lad, your guess is as good as mine.
Ok so 4.5x salary difference
But if Davies joined on £250k I’m sure Robinson’s agent could get him 125k at Utd so then it’s only 2x
I understand now for you he is not world class.
For me he is, as a LB, alongside Theo Hernandez and maybe Grimaldo.
I believe Davies showed a few years ago exactly what you described, he influenced games and was a monster when Bayern won the CL with ease. His level probably dropped a bit since then, but he is capable of doing exactly the same if not more in the future.
We should buy him without a doubt.
It's 2024, we finished 8th last season and are languishing at 13th right now, struggling in Europa League, we have not had a single fit left back in a year, we have a new manager whose favourite system calls for a left wing back role - but United fans don't like the idea of signing fecking Alphonso Davies on a free transfer.
Some of you lot cannot be helped.
Some of you lot cannot be helped.
You missed the point again, the op said they are not against the signing so what are you arguing about?
Can’t you people just accept that you have different definitions of the term world class?
My bone of contention would be his wage demands and whether he has sufficient hunger to do it all with us, just as he’s done with Bayern.
The latter aspect I think has been one of our pitfalls over the past few years, where we can purchase this well renowned talent who has an impressive haul of trophies but never really replicates it here. It feels like that type of player sees us as easy money and a nice pension to coast along the rest of their career at, and that drive they did have has gone. Obviously they’re not all like that but we seem to have had a few like that over the past years.
If you look at Ferguson’s purchasing record, he seldom bought players with considerable trophy hauls. He seemingly always targeted players who were young and starting and/or hadn’t won much, because he probably thought they’d have that hunger. Did he even purchase a player who won the World Cup and/or European Championship outside of Laurent Blanc and Kleberson?
The latter aspect I think has been one of our pitfalls over the past few years, where we can purchase this well renowned talent who has an impressive haul of trophies but never really replicates it here. It feels like that type of player sees us as easy money and a nice pension to coast along the rest of their career at, and that drive they did have has gone. Obviously they’re not all like that but we seem to have had a few like that over the past years.
If you look at Ferguson’s purchasing record, he seldom bought players with considerable trophy hauls. He seemingly always targeted players who were young and starting and/or hadn’t won much, because he probably thought they’d have that hunger. Did he even purchase a player who won the World Cup and/or European Championship outside of Laurent Blanc and Kleberson?
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He isn't going to come here anyway. How long has he been holding out for a move to Real Madrid? They have been trying to get him to sign a new deal at Bayern for 18 months now.
£250k per week plus a massive sign on fee for a left back is insanity. I thought we had moved away from such deals under INEOS?
Not surprising. One makes a very valid financial argument, the other makes a clearly valid football argument. To me, while both things are true (Carreras will cost us less than Davies and Davies is better than Carreras) - it is simply irrelevant if the financials are not restrictive.
In this entire debate, there has been no footballing argument for signing Carreras over Davies. Literally only the fact that his wages are less. Which is true. The ultimate answer lies with our accounting, and if we think we can afford it, then I’m not sure why fans should be trying to count the clubs pockets on their behalf. I’m sure we’re well aware of the financials involved and still seem to be pursuing Davies. Which is understandable as he is the better player, and the idea of wanting the better player isn’t a difficult concept to process.