Alejandro Garnacho (out) | Chelsea make enquiries

He's got more G+A to his name than Ronaldo at the same stage of development, but some on here think it's best to compare him to Danny welbeck? Saying comparing him to sterling is a bad thing? Who was one of the best players in the world in his prime?

Imma dip out this debate.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
He's got more G+A to his name than Ronaldo at the same stage of development, but some on here think it's best to compare him to Danny welbeck? Saying comparing him to sterling is a bad thing? Who was one of the best players in the world in his prime?

Imma dip out this debate.
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And they will be the same ones complaining after we sell him why we don’t have anyone with a decent G&A return .
 
Apokalips said:
It's crazy how quickly people have swallowed up whatever excuse we are being given for selling one of our brightest talents. Some of the downplaying of his potential is incredible, especially considering he is one of the most productive players in his age group in the world. He may not become world class, but he has as good a chance as any 20 year old out there currently. This move is just not what Manchester United is about, selling our best young players instead of nurturing them, we have seen often how we have spent big on trash when we had better prospects in the squad already like Amad and Garnacho being better than Antony, Sancho (who was an understandable signing), etc. This just really stinks and so does a lot of the way people act as though Garnacho is highly unlikely to be able to continue improving and adapting. Talents like him are the players you keep and nurture, his value would be high in the next couple of years even if he stayed at this level of production.

We will sell him, he will go on to tear things up and we will replace him with more duds and then what? How have we ended up in this position? Murtough and Arnold have a lot to answer for, as Manchester United should never ben in a position where we HAVE to sell - why were purchases like Antony sanctioned for such figures if this was a possibility a couple of years later? The money men would have surely done projections based on all scenarios.
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I'd argue Janujaz was a bigger talent than Garnacho with a much more well-rounded skillset....lest we forget, SAF labelled Janujaz as a world class talent...but his attitude and temperament weren't right and his career faded.

Garnacho is a good young talent, nobody us denying that...but being savvy sometimes means making unpopular decisions based on trusting your 'read' on a player.

Personally, I think Garnacho will make a "good" but not "great" footballer. Now, bearing in-mind the PSR implications of selling homegrown players...can we turn down £50m? I'd say not.
 
Zed is not dead said:
I mean, they’re playing 27yo David Neres who scored 2 goals and made 4 assists and Conte seems to love him.
McTominay who was considered at best Championship level plays almost all the games for the current leader of Serie A

Garnacho would thrive for Napoli
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Neres has been starting matches recently. He did always make an impact off the bench. His dribbling is fantastic and it gets people off their seat
 
SuperiorXI said:
I swear if we sell him you'll get so many clowns bumping the thread when he scores or assists (and he will, he is extremely talented). It could be our Salah.
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People keep saying this, but I don't think Salah looked as promising at Chelsea when they shipped him out
 
If we sell, I really hope it's to Napoli. If he develops into a very good player, let him do it far away from us.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
He's got more G+A to his name than Ronaldo at the same stage of development, but some on here think it's best to compare him to Danny welbeck? Saying comparing him to sterling is a bad thing? Who was one of the best players in the world in his prime?

Imma dip out this debate.
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Once again, a poster who wildly overrates Garnacho and only brings up the goal involvements and his age in his defense. The kid has a good base level, good fundamentals, and a good mentality on the pitch too, but he isn't exceptional anything and doesn't really have a single trait in his overall skillset that's exceptional and makes you think he can go on to become one of the best players in his position.

The best teenagers/early 20s prospects we had in the last decade playing for us are Rashford, Shaw, Mainoo, Greenwood, Martial, Yoro, Mainoo, Amad, arguably Januzaj and Hojlund. Garnacho is just not on the level of these talents. He's much closer to an Elanga or a Lingard, than he is to the group of players I listed. Good PL level winger with solid output and good fundamentals, who can definitely play and contribute for a top 6 team, but with a limited ceiling and no real potential to become a world beater in their position. Welbeck was also a good player who could be a squad player for any PL team but was never going to reach the heights of elite level talents, so he's a good comparison, too.

A £60m offer for him would be above what he's worth now. It would probably be around what he'd be worth at peak potential, so we really should take it, especially when you consider that all these players I'm gonna list moved clubs in the last 2 years for below that amount: Neto, Gordon, Olise, Kudus, Barcola, Palmer, Cunha, Dembelé, Maddison, Johnson, Doku, Minteh, Doué, Olmo, Diaby.

Most of them are arguably superior players to Garnacho, and I wouldn't say any of them could be considered objectively inferior either. It proves that a player of Garnacho's caliber isn't difficult to replace, and his sale would massively help PSR and accelerate the rebuilding process for United. We can probably get someone better than Garnacho for £60m without big issues.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
He's got more G+A to his name than Ronaldo at the same stage of development, but some on here think it's best to compare him to Danny welbeck? Saying comparing him to sterling is a bad thing? Who was one of the best players in the world in his prime?

Imma dip out this debate.
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Are you really trying to claim he's better than Ronaldo was at his age? This hysteria has gone way to far now.

Welbeck at a similar age was bagging in 9 PL goals for the season for us so why is that comparison wild? He was a similar level of talent for sure.
 
SuperiorXI said:
All the more reason to keep hold of him. He really has scary potential and we don't want him to realise that elsewhere for a paltry sum just to balance the books.
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Is there anything you base this "scary" potential on other than his age and G/A?
 
I'm in favor of selling. Think we're too biased in our assessment of him. I know he's young but you can already see that he lacks some elements to his game.
Not to mention that we must sell in order to improve the squad. If the financial situation was better I'd encourage us to keep hold and see how he develops.
 
60 million pounds and it's a deal. If we accept less we're fools. He's got 3,5 years on contract.
 
Is it just me that thinks Januzaj been criminally underrated and Garnacho overrated? I'm yet to see Garnacho display that level of technical refinement, creativity and I'd even say dribbling(not trying to beat them with pace but with skill) in his game.

 
Amazing to read all these definitive takes on how Garnacho's career is going to go. We have a forum full of experienced, qualified talent scouts.

My opinion on it is based on the opposite. I've got absolutely no idea how good he will be - hence not wanting to ship him out at the first sign of trouble...
 
saik said:
Is it just me that thinks Januzaj been criminally underrated and Garnacho overrated? I'm yet to see Garnacho display that level of technical refinement, creativity and I'd even say dribbling(not trying to beat them with pace but with skill) in his game.

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Adnan had better game intelligence, imo.
Real shame he never fulfilled his potential.
 
pocco said:
Cole Palmer was £40m, so really Garnacho is worth far less.
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Cole Palmer is a great, great player, and much better than Garnacho. But Garnacho is twice the player that Palmer was when he left City.

It’s not even close.
 
These strange comparisons always come up here, so an so did this so this player will do the same. Januzaj has nothing to do with Garnacho, nor does Salah, nor does Robben or Ronaldo.

Garnacho could go on to become on of the worlds top wide players, could stay the same as he is now, or get worse through any number of ways. Pointing to Januzaj as a reason to sell is just silly, as is claiming he could be Ronaldo or Robben. He'll be Garnacho and his future performance is unknown.

What you can say is generally many top players come of age around 23-25. You get some like Mbappe or Rooney that break out early.
 
A danger of keeping hold of him just the sake of the United ethos is we’re repeating the mistakes of the past decade where we’re essentially telling managers to just ‘make it work because they’re talented’ and put squares in round holes.

If the management structure of Amorim, Wilcox and Berrada have all decided that Garnacho represents a good sale value because he’s incompatible or they think he’s reached his ceiling or they’ve found his ceiling isn’t actually that high (or all the above), then they should do the sale now.

A possible alternative is we’re stuck with another Rashford situation where you’ve got someone on a mega wage and a long contract, who has stagnated stats wise, not really lived up to the initial potential and maybe realise that their ceiling wasn’t actually that high anyway
 
Rojofiam said:
Is there anything you base this "scary" potential on other than his age and G/A?
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End product is very important to be fair. And one of the hardest things in football.

I wouldn't sell Garnacho at all. I do not think he has world-class potential, but he can easily be as good as Nani/Valencia, of course being a different type of player. One worry is that he doesn't suit Amorim's system but a) he is 20, so can learn to play the No. 10 role (or maybe wingback like Diallo), 2) we literally have only Bruno, Diallo, Zirkzee, Hojlund and Mount for 3 attacking positions, with 2 of them being quite bad, and 1 of them being both bad and never available, 3) Amorim will probably be fired in the next 12 months, and most managers want to have wingers, in which case we would have only 1.

If we are completely sure that he cannot fit Amorim's system, then the thing we should do at least for the remaining of this season and the next one is to loan him. He would still have 2 years on his contract and we could still sell him for a high fee if Amorim's system starts working well for us and thus there isn't a future for Garnacho here.

Selling him now for 50M (especially to Chelsea) would be criminal. Would effectively mean that we swapped him for Mount who is on twice the salary but half as good and never available.
 
I'd say that Garnacho could blossom into a fantastic player in the right system and setup. I just don't see that being here. He has too many flaws in his game to be a top standout talent.

I also think it's perfectly fine to sell youth players for top money. We do have a tendency of keeping players for too long and then their valuation stagnates.

Plenty of other clubs sell their youth players and the world keeps revolving. If it allows the club to do some deals this January then it's probably the right call.
 
saik said:
Is it just me that thinks Januzaj been criminally underrated and Garnacho overrated? I'm yet to see Garnacho display that level of technical refinement, creativity and I'd even say dribbling(not trying to beat them with pace but with skill) in his game.

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Technical ability is only one thing. Garnacho has been more effective than Januzaj was, wouldn't you say? He has also showing to have a better mentality thus far. We have seen many times, talent is not enough. Talent and hard work is usually the ticket to success.
 
I really don't know how to feel about this...I suppose it's all about having some credit in the bank...literally and figuratively.

The club has very little credit in the bank. We have "lost" a huge amount of revenue over the last few years...Spending money on old "stars" at the end of their careers...some have been a useful little cameo performance like Cavani and Zlatan, but most of the others have been expensive flops like Sanchez and Falcao. We have also lost a huge amount of potential revenue by having to sell / losing players with a dark cloud over their head like Greenwood, Martial, Pogba, Ronaldo mk2.

So the alternative is to "invest in youth" but we have seen the club fail to manage the attitude and behavior of youth players into the 1st team without them becoming ego-maniacs, fragile mentally or disruptive or far worse. Promising youngsters have either been promoted too early, given too much influence or have been sidelined and frustrated by being left out of a team filled with players seemingly being selected for commercial rather than football decisions.

We have also failed to develop young talent to adapt to new challenges, play in different systems or have the necessary personal attributes to deal with the pressure of playing for the highest profile club in the world. Players seem one-dimensional with a lack of ability to change, work hard or adapt their game as they develop or age.

The fact we can all point to a wealth of examples where "the club should have sold player X" at that point, says we are not developing young players in the right way. It's something we need to get much better at or we will squander a great group of young players currently in the under 18's.

It's shocking that the club has squandered it's young talent in such a way...for so long....that we find ourselves having to sell a promising young player like Garnacho for a relatively average amount of money. If he is a disruptive influence, or is unwillingly to adapt or change his game then it may prove to have been the right decision. However, what degree of certainty will we have in the players brought in to replace him. Making decisions like this should be done from a position of strength and in the background. The club is in a terrible state and seems to be thrashing around looking for solutions.

I hope these are strong positive strokes in the right direction and not the wild flailing's of a sinking person.
 
RedSky said:
I'd say that Garnacho could blossom into a fantastic player in the right system and setup. I just don't see that being here. He has too many flaws in his game to be a top standout talent.

I also think it's perfectly fine to sell youth players for top money. We do have a tendency of keeping players for too long and then their valuation stagnates.

Plenty of other clubs sell their youth players and the world keeps revolving. If it allows the club to do some deals this January then it's probably the right call.
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Exactly this, we seem to have this thing where we cannot sell academy graduates and always hoping they improve or come good. Sometimes, you have to sell them for the better of the club.

Is having Garnacho so important that we do not get any signings in?
 
saik said:
Is it just me that thinks Januzaj been criminally underrated and Garnacho overrated? I'm yet to see Garnacho display that level of technical refinement, creativity and I'd even say dribbling(not trying to beat them with pace but with skill) in his game.

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Garnacho has pace and more end product. Quite a different player and Januzaj's lack of end product is why he never made it at a top club
 
youngrell said:
Technical ability is only one thing. Garnacho has been more effective than Januzaj was, wouldn't you say? He has also showing to have a better mentality thus far. We have seen many times, talent is not enough. Talent and hard work is usually the ticket to success.
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I agree technical ability isn't enough. Januzaj failed here because the pressure of no.11 got to him and we failed to nurture his talent carefully. In the same way, better mentality alone isn't enough. Like you said, you need both talent and hardwork.

Do you think Garnacho has displayed the level of talent where he will be starting week in week out for a top club? He's not technically or physically gifted enough and I see lot of flaws in his game that wont magically get better just because he's only 20 years old. It's why I'm not opposed to selling him. If we get anything close to 60-70m for him then that would be a fantastic deal for us.
 
saik said:
Is it just me that thinks Januzaj been criminally underrated and Garnacho overrated? I'm yet to see Garnacho display that level of technical refinement, creativity and I'd even say dribbling(not trying to beat them with pace but with skill) in his game.

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I hope it's just you
 
SuperiorXI said:
Sure, just take out three major metrics that determine the value of a player, that is a good argument.
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Let's be honest, his apparently incredibly impressive G/A this season is boosted by those dead rubber Carabao games vs Barnsley and Leicester.

If you take those 3 goals and 3 assists out from those 2 games, his numbers sort of revert to a similar rate of his previous 2 seasons' numbers. A goal and assist here and there, but he's definitely not had exceptional numbers in any of his 2 and a half seasons so far at United...which is totally fine, especially for a developing kid like him at this stage of his career.

Like many of you have said, he's young, plays in a shit team, and he does have room to grow as a footballer, but that's the part where I just completely disagree with all those takes that he can become a world beater. He's good at most things not really outstanding at anything.

What's going to change? Acceleration, top speed, running power, creativity, ball striking, passing range, etc. the most valuable traits cannot really be developed that much. You either possess them at an exceptional level, or you simply don't.

Also, the physical profiling of any player, even young ones, can tell you a lot about their career trajectory. Mbappé wouldn't be as good as he is without his frightening pace. Rashford wouldn't have been able to be a top Premier League player for many years at United, without his pace, power, ball striking, and ball carrying ability either.

When a player seemingly goes from zero to hero, and his career skyrockets because he becomes a world class player seemingly suddenly out of nothing, that's usually because they were very raw at an early age and their game needed a lot of refining by coaching and gaining experience by a lot of game time. I'd argue Hojlund is definitely that kind of player in our squad. Yoro might be too, based on nothing but the Southampton game tbf...whereas the likes of Mainoo or Garnacho were surprisingly good and relatively consistent almost straightaway, because they had a good base level that allowed them to be able to contribute at first team level immediately after getting promoted from the academy...but that doesn't mean that every single one of them will keep developing in a linear way.
 
We have Diallo, Rashford (being shopped around), Antony(going out on loan) and who else? Why exactly are we entertaining the idea of selling Garnacho I can't understand?
 
RedSky said:
I'd say that Garnacho could blossom into a fantastic player in the right system and setup. I just don't see that being here. He has too many flaws in his game to be a top standout talent.

I also think it's perfectly fine to sell youth players for top money. We do have a tendency of keeping players for too long and then their valuation stagnates.

Plenty of other clubs sell their youth players and the world keeps revolving. If it allows the club to do some deals this January then it's probably the right call.
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This is where I fall in the argument. For all the people saying he has huge potential do you think he’ll reach it in this formation?

I’d also say Garnacho knows this team won’t maximise his potential either. SAF built a team around Ronaldo, where he was excused of defensive duties and encouraged to attack. This brought the best out of him.

Garnacho needs that kind of approach. He won’t reach Ronaldo levels but he needs the freedom of attacking rather than the restrictions of defence to fulfill his own potential.

Not that it isn’t disappointing but we’ve gone all in on Amorim and 5 at the back. There’s no point expecting him to improve without game time or an optimum position in the team
 
To be honest it pains me to say it but for Garnacho he should be looking to move on. He could blossom into a top player but he’s far less likely to do that at Utd than elsewhere. We have been a player graveyard for far too long and as much as I want to claim otherwise, the list of talented players who have gone downhill here is hard to ignore!
 
Revan said:
End product is very important to be fair. And one of the hardest things in football.

I wouldn't sell Garnacho at all. I do not think he has world-class potential, but he can easily be as good as Nani/Valencia, of course being a different type of player. One worry is that he doesn't suit Amorim's system but a) he is 20, so can learn to play the No. 10 role (or maybe wingback like Diallo), 2) we literally have only Bruno, Diallo, Zirkzee, Hojlund and Mount for 3 attacking positions, with 2 of them being quite bad, and 1 of them being both bad and never available, 3) Amorim will probably be fired in the next 12 months, and most managers want to have wingers, in which case we would have only 1.

If we are completely sure that he cannot fit Amorim's system, then the thing we should do at least for the remaining of this season and the next one is to loan him. He would still have 2 years on his contract and we could still sell him for a high fee if Amorim's system starts working well for us and thus there isn't a future for Garnacho here.

Selling him now for 50M (especially to Chelsea) would be criminal. Would effectively mean that we swapped him for Mount who is on twice the salary but half as good and never available.
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I don't mind us keeping Garnacho until the summer or even beyond that, but he's probably the best asset we have currently that's not irreplaceable, but would massively help our PSR situation if we took a £55-60m offer for him.

I don't think he has world class potential either, and that's fine, but he's definitely good enough to play for a big club and contribute for them...but more of a squad player who can only get a longer run as a starting player for a big team, if they hit some good form whilst the first choice players are struggling at the moment and maybe they're missing a bit of quality in that position too...similar to Trossard at Arsenal right now.

However, if you look at this group of wingers and number 10s who have moved in the past 24 months for fees that didn't even reach £60m, suddenly selling Garnacho for that much seems like an offer we need to take and replacing him with a better talent shouldn't be impossible at all: Neto, Gordon, Olise, Kudus, Barcola, Palmer, Cunha, Dembelé, Maddison, Johnson, Doku, Minteh, Doué, Olmo, Diaby.

If I was building a squad from scratch, and I was choosing my players for the winger/number 10 roles, I'd comfortably have most of these players over Garnacho in my team. The quality and talent in attacking positions have always been there on the market, and it's not even difficult to find and attain. It's rather the rare profiles with exceptionally high ceilings like Yoro or Mainoo who should be untouchable assets for us.
 
Kostov said:
We have Diallo, Rashford (being shopped around), Antony(going out on loan) and who else? Why exactly are we entertaining the idea of selling Garnacho I can't understand?
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Because the player wants out. He has doubts over his fit in an Amorim system. We aren't shopping him about. We would prefer not to sell. However, it's the wish of the player.
 
saik said:
I agree technical ability isn't enough. Januzaj failed here because the pressure of no.11 got to him and we failed to nurture his talent carefully. In the same way, better mentality alone isn't enough. Like you said, you need both talent and hardwork.

Do you think Garnacho has displayed the level of talent where he will be starting week in week out for a top club? He's not technically or physically gifted enough and I see lot of flaws in his game that wont magically get better just because he's only 20 years old. It's why I'm not opposed to selling him. If we get anything close to 60-70m for him then that would be a fantastic deal for us.
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I would say his biggest flaw atm is his decision making, which is quite common in young players and is very possible to improve in the near future. I can certainly see the argument for selling him at a good price as we are clearly desperate for funds, I just don't agree with those massively playing down his ability or potential. I also think it will be a shame to lose a young talent because of poor management.
 
I've always felt Garnacho has been overrated somewhat at this stage in his career, albeit I still think he has the talent to be a top, top player. That being said and I appreciate we need funds and Amorim needs players to fit his system, but potentially shipping out a 20-year old academy project who has featured heavily for our first team already and is nowhere near his full potential to fund a transfer of what would appear a bang average LWB from Lecce is so very sad.

I really hope he stays.
 
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