Alejandro Garnacho (out) | Chelsea make enquiries

SalfordRed18 said:
His ceiling is higher than rashfords and probably only a tier or two below Ronaldo and messi imo. People forget he's only 20 years old because the amount of football that he's played.

He doesn't fit amorims style at all though, unless you experiment with him up top.
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You're joking, right? Right?
 
Xire01 said:
Definetly think its the case if we want to buy this window
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That's a different topic though, right? If sell to buy is on the agenda, the buying part can't be ignored and needs to be worth the selling part. Whole narrative of this potential exit might change with that, but not seeing it yet.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
His ceiling is higher than rashfords and probably only a tier or two below Ronaldo and messi imo. People forget he's only 20 years old because the amount of football that he's played.

He doesn't fit amorims style at all though, unless you experiment with him up top.
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At best he might reach the level of Raheem Sterling. A knack of getting on the end of chances but distinctly average at everything else.
 
Rex Banner said:
The comparison to Januzaj is so lazy. Januzaj had what 1 good season under Moyes?
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It's crazy how quickly people have swallowed up whatever excuse we are being given for selling one of our brightest talents. Some of the downplaying of his potential is incredible, especially considering he is one of the most productive players in his age group in the world. He may not become world class, but he has as good a chance as any 20 year old out there currently. This move is just not what Manchester United is about, selling our best young players instead of nurturing them, we have seen often how we have spent big on trash when we had better prospects in the squad already like Amad and Garnacho being better than Antony, Sancho (who was an understandable signing), etc. This just really stinks and so does a lot of the way people act as though Garnacho is highly unlikely to be able to continue improving and adapting. Talents like him are the players you keep and nurture, his value would be high in the next couple of years even if he stayed at this level of production.

We will sell him, he will go on to tear things up and we will replace him with more duds and then what? How have we ended up in this position? Murtough and Arnold have a lot to answer for, as Manchester United should never ben in a position where we HAVE to sell - why were purchases like Antony sanctioned for such figures if this was a possibility a couple of years later? The money men would have surely done projections based on all scenarios.
 
acnumber9 said:
At best he might reach the level of Raheem Sterling. A knack of getting on the end of chances but distinctly average at everything else.
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Sterling was fantastic for a while and regarded as the best English player. I don't think this makes a compelling argument to sell Garnacho
 
bb8 said:
Mate, please. I work in finance. If you don't know what you're talking about, just hold off on commenting on PSR. I'm sick of people posting who don't understand the rules.

"Reducing the amount of transfer cost" as you call it, counts exactly as much as selling a homegrown player. Holjund's fee from our purchase is already on the books. If you sell him for £50M then revenue goes up by £50M. Your one year costs WILL go up as the amortization from his purchase is pulled into the current accounting year, but your OVERALL costs (across years) stay exactly the same. All you are doing is moving costs from future years into this accounting year; you're not increasing overall costs.

Hence, selling Holjund is worth exactly as much as Garnacho, to the penny. Garnacho just lets us spend more this winter, whereas selling Holjund would let us spend more in summer 2025 and summer 2026.
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You seem to be making the same mistake, commenting without understanding the rules. Your assertions would make sense if PSR would be calculated on a per season basis. But PSR is calculated over a 3 season period. That is why selling an academy player is so valuable. You get to use that profit to balance the books over a three year period.

Lets say we buy someone for buy another player for 50 million on a 5 year contract, the amortized cost is 10m/yr. over 3 years that is 30m.

If we sell garnacho for 50 million this year, and You still get a 20m space to amortize player fees for other players upto 26/27 season.

Hojlund cost us 64 million on a 5 year contract, so per year is 12.4 million. He has 51.2 million cost remaining on the books. If we sell him for 50 million, we need to book a 1.2m loss that is going to go into the PSR for the next 2 seasons. If you add the amortization cost for the 50 million pound player you bought, you still need (30m + 1.2m) profit to balance the books for the next 2 seasons.

PSR is calculated over a 3 year period. What is going to happen is the actual opposite of what you are saying. Selling Garnacho helps us in balancing the books for 24/25, 25/26 and 26/27 seasons. Selling Hojlund hurts us till 26/27 season.
 
He's miles better than Januzaj was but he's still not good enough.

I'd say Welbeck is a better comparison, good player but not enough. We were right to sell Wellbeck and we will be right to sell Garnacho providing the fee is worthwhile.

And yes I know Garnacho is younger, and the positions are slightly different.
 
hellhunter said:
Sterling was fantastic for a while and regarded as the best English player. I don't think this makes a compelling argument to sell Garnacho
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He was never the best English player though. Once he lost the comfort blanket of City’s chance creating machine he showed his true worth.
 
acnumber9 said:
At best he might reach the level of Raheem Sterling. A knack of getting on the end of chances but distinctly average at everything else.
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I'd be happy with that as his best, because that's a 30-goal-a-season forward capable of putting hattricks past Champions League opposition. Most would value such a player a fair bit higher than the centre half who broke into the Uzbekistan national squad a year and a bit ago.
 
He's a winger, it doesn't really matter if he's good enough as Amorim doesn't play with wingers.

It seems silly to keep a £50m player who will no doubt struggle to develop further at wing back/#10 when the rest of the squad needs urgent reinforcement. And that's before we consider the fact there are some red flags around his attitude/lifestyle.

If Amorim wasn't the manager I'd be more keen to keep him, but Amorim needs to be the focus now...
 
SalfordRed18 said:
His ceiling is higher than rashfords and probably only a tier or two below Ronaldo and messi imo. People forget he's only 20 years old because the amount of football that he's played.

He doesn't fit amorims style at all though, unless you experiment with him up top.
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Holy shit, this is wild. A lad that regularly can't beat a fullback, smashes shots into defenders shins and easily gets marked out of games, is on par with the likes of Rooney's potential? If this were remotely true, why are only Napoli and Chelsea interested and don't want to pay over £50m?
 
UnsungHero said:
He's a winger, it doesn't really matter if he's good enough as Amorim doesn't play with wingers.

It seems silly to keep a £50m player who will no doubt struggle to develop further at wing back/#10 when the rest of the squad needs urgent reinforcement. And that's before we consider the fact there are some red flags around his attitude/lifestyle.

If Amorim wasn't the manager I'd be more keen to keep him, but Amorim needs to be the focus now...
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True. And if Amorim doesn't work out maybe a modern 4-3-3 without wingbacks and number 10's is the solution. That would probably put the curtain down once and for all.
 
What’s the general consensus from Napoli fans about Garnacho? I get the feeling Kvarat was their crown jewel and based on that, getting Garnacho as his replacement would be somewhat underwhelming.

I know the club and its fans pride themselves on nurturing talent and bringing out their full potential, but we’re not perfect and also it’ll be based on whether that player wants it enough. There’s been plenty of players in all of football who start well as teenagers but fizzle out because they achieved too much too early, they get complacent or they weren’t that good anyway outside of the initial year or two. Not every footballer who was good as teenager translates into living up to potential and having an amazing career.

Garnacho has had discipline problems and has allegedly been part of leaking info, as well as some antics that undermine the club (more his brother than him though).

We sold Keith Gillespie who was a highly rated, young right winger 30 years ago. Do we regret it? Absolutely not, even when our main right winger Kanchelskis was binned off 6 months later. We got Andy Cole out it essentially and the rest is history as they say.
 
hellhunter said:
Sterling was fantastic for a while and regarded as the best English player. I don't think this makes a compelling argument to sell Garnacho
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Think it does make a compelling argument actually. Liverpool sold a young Sterling, and now look at them. It wasn't the end for them, as some weirdos proclaim will be the case if we sell Gernacho or Mainoo
 
didz said:
I'd be happy with that as his best, because that's a 30-goal-a-season forward capable of putting hattricks past Champions League opposition. Most would value such a player a fair bit higher than the centre half who broke into the Uzbekistan national squad a year and a bit ago.
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For a few seasons at the best club in Europe. Removed from that Sterling has never been a top player. It’s academic anyway as it’s just my opinion based on what their strengths are. Good movement.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Think it does make a compelling argument actually. Liverpool sold a young Sterling, and now look at them. It wasn't the end for them, as some weirdos proclaim will be the case if we sell Gernacho or Mainoo
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It's not the worst comparison, but they were in a much better state when they sold him
 
Chairman Steve said:
What’s the general consensus from Napoli fans about Garnacho? I get the feeling Kvarat was their crown jewel and based on that, getting Garnacho as his replacement would be somewhat underwhelming.
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Mixed from what I've been able to read so far. Some think he is underwhelming signing that hasn't got high ceiling while some see him as a top prospect. A bit like what can be seen in this thread
 
UnsungHero said:
He's a winger, it doesn't really matter if he's good enough as Amorim doesn't play with wingers.

It seems silly to keep a £50m player who will no doubt struggle to develop further at wing back/#10 when the rest of the squad needs urgent reinforcement. And that's before we consider the fact there are some red flags around his attitude/lifestyle.

If Amorim wasn't the manager I'd be more keen to keep him, but Amorim needs to be the focus now...
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What happens if we lose a few more games and slide further down the table? Can we be confident Ratcliffe doesn't panic? Imagine that happens and we suddenly need wingers again?
 
UnsungHero said:
He's a winger, it doesn't really matter if he's good enough as Amorim doesn't play with wingers.

It seems silly to keep a £50m player who will no doubt struggle to develop further at wing back/#10 when the rest of the squad needs urgent reinforcement. And that's before we consider the fact there are some red flags around his attitude/lifestyle.

If Amorim wasn't the manager I'd be more keen to keep him, but Amorim needs to be the focus now...
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Yet we are keeping Maguire for another 18 months. A player who can't function to a decent standard in a high line-a big part of Amorims philosophy. A player who is on £200k a week.

Also look at what Alvaro Carreras is doing in the CL. Meanwhile Shaw and Malacia have done nothing for the last season and a half.

We are all over the place.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Think it does make a compelling argument actually. Liverpool sold a young Sterling, and now look at them. It wasn't the end for them, as some weirdos proclaim will be the case if we sell Gernacho or Mainoo
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I understand the point you're making but it's probably not the argument you think it is given they spent the money on Christian Benteke and finished 8th.
 
thegregster said:
Yet we are keeping Maguire for another 18 months. A player who can't function to a decent standard in a high line-a big part of Amorims philosophy. A player who is on £200k a week.

We are all over the place.
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Well, except that's a casual narrative made up by fans, and not the truth.
 
Yes the contracts we handed out are ridiculous and we are now suffering for it, but we don't actually produce that many good to great academy products, so having to sell any that we do produce to put the clubs mistakes right is soul destroying. Most of our academy players barely produce fees to cover their development. The past regime have a lot to answer for.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Think it does make a compelling argument actually. Liverpool sold a young Sterling, and now look at them. It wasn't the end for them, as some weirdos proclaim will be the case if we sell Gernacho or Mainoo
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That was Sterling forcing a move though, and £50m a decade ago went further than it does now. They still spent it badly and needed to wait until they had someone they could sell for an actual good price before they could rework the squad.

Now if somebody is offering us an amount that lets us sign 3 players who'll be key for us, it's a sell. But it doesn't look like we're there yet.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Yes the contracts we handed out are ridiculous and we are now suffering for it, but we don't actually produce that many good to great academy products, so having to sell any that we do produce to put the clubs mistakes right is soul destroying. Most of our academy players barely produce fees to cover their development. The past regime have a lot to answer for.
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in all fairness, hes a Getafe/Madrid youth product
 
gobertan said:
Can't wait for the sale to go through simply so the fanbase can move beyond the hysterics. Utterly exhausting the sound and fury surrounding a player as limited as he is. We're in 13th place. On the back of an 8th place finish last season. We haven't got the cash to spend. We do not have the luxury of waiting around a few more years in the hopes that he comes good. We've been crying out for a new organizational structure with "proper football men" in place to turn the club around and now people can't stomach the steps the new leadership has been essentially forced to take.
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Ain't this the truth, you me and me both I can't wait for the sells of these players like garnacho and rashord and hojlund, the fanfare and hysteria surrounding them whether it's the overrating or over hating is just too much. I seen posts elsewhere from some say they've gonna stop supporting utd if we sell garnacho. This guy with average pace, can't dribble average finishing, Brighton have better wingers and we're acting like we're gonna sell the next Ronaldo/Ronaldinho it's fecking hilarious, I don't even think he's better than Elanga to me he's a player of all show but very little substance, the image and name along with the mimicking of his idol Ronaldo screws peoples perception of his baseline ability

I couldn't care if he stays or goes as on his day he can be a good player but hes far from irreplaceable
 
Jim Beam said:
Mixed from what I've been able to read so far. Some think he is underwhelming signing that hasn't got high ceiling while some see him as a top prospect. A bit like what can be seen in this thread
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I mean, they’re playing 27yo David Neres who scored 2 goals and made 4 assists and Conte seems to love him.
McTominay who was considered at best Championship level plays almost all the games for the current leader of Serie A

Garnacho would thrive for Napoli
 
This is the kind of sale we previously wouldn't make, which we probably should make. Get the value why you can.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Think it does make a compelling argument actually. Liverpool sold a young Sterling, and now look at them. It wasn't the end for them, as some weirdos proclaim will be the case if we sell Gernacho or Mainoo
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Wasn’t his contract running down and he demanded a move? If I remember rightly he even missed training to force it through

I wouldn’t mind if the money for Garnacho was great that would allow us to strengthen multiple areas but 50m is so shit. I mean Lecce want 34m for a LB

Absolutely pointless sale that will no doubt be regretted in the future just like the young LB being sold to Benfica for peanuts
 
Zed is not dead said:
I mean, they’re playing 27yo David Neres who scored 2 goals and made 4 assists and Conte seems to love him.
McTominay who was considered at best Championship level plays almost all the games for the current leader of Serie A

Garnacho would thrive for Napoli
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I also think he would be a great fit for Serie A and could become really productive player for them. If we decide to sell him we should hold our ground and demand proper fee.
 
The idea to sell him because he doesn't 'fit the system' sounds preposterous to me. I like Ruben as much as anyone and think he would succeed here, but currently he has won 3 of his 11 PL games and hasn't been able to show glimpses of any discernible style of play. We concede a lot of goals despite starting with five defenders and don't score a lot. There is a no guarantee that he is going to a success despite our best wishes and hopes. To then sell one of our most talented and productive players just because of system doesn't sit right with me.

This deal only makes sense if we are in a dire situation financially/PSR wise or we think Garnacho has already reached his ceiling and we can make better use of the money.
 
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Zed is not dead said:
I mean, they’re playing 27yo David Neres who scored 2 goals and made 4 assists and Conte seems to love him.
McTominay who was considered at best Championship level plays almost all the games for the current leader of Serie A

Garnacho would thrive for Napoli
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He likely will. To add to your examples, Darmian became a solid RB mainstay for Inter after he left and Lukaku has been scoring goals for fun in Serie A. The fact he will likely be a very good signing for them doesn't mean he would have been a surefire worldbeater for us in the years to come, certainly not if we want to persist with Amorim's system (and if Amorim himself survives the course).

I'm reluctant to sell him, mostly because we aren't exactly brimming with talent, but if he does predictably do well there then it shouldn't be a damning indictment of us choosing to sell him. Some players are just a different animal in other more suited leagues.
 
Solius said:
What happens if we lose a few more games and slide further down the table? Can we be confident Ratcliffe doesn't panic? Imagine that happens and we suddenly need wingers again?
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A valid concern, I really don't know...

This applies over the long-term as well, we spend £200m on wing backs and no10's and then find we don't actually need them under a new manager?

The focus surely must be backing Amorim whatever it takes though, as long as we stay well clear of the relegation zone (I can't believe I'm having to write that)!
 
This is the sort of transfer you do in the summer, not the winter unless you are absolutely shitting it on PSR or pushing to get two or three in.

If we sell Garnacho to bring in a couple of wing back flops, this forum will be unbearable.
 
Insanity said:
The idea to sell him because he doesn't 'fit the system' sounds preposterous to me. I like Ruben as much as anyone and think he would succeed here, but currently he has won 3 of his 11 PL games and hasn't been able to show glimpses of any discernible style of play. We concede a lot of goals despite starting with five defenders and don't score a lot. There is a no guarantee that he is going to a success despite our best wishes and hopes. To then sell one of our most talented and productive players just because of system doesn't sit right with me.

This deal only makes sense if we are in a dire situation financially/PSR wise or we think Garnacho has already reached his sealing and we can make better use of the money.
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I think thats what it all comes down to. Under better circumstances he'd be one of the last players you'd think we'd be looking to ship out. But unfortunately we are desperate for funds, and PSR stipulations make it that selling him becomes our most realistic avenue to making the signings we need. It would obviously be preferable for us to ship out Rashford, and if by some miracle we were able to bin him for a substantial fee we wouldn't be entertaining £60million bids for Garnacho, but alas we are where we are.
 
From PSR perspective this is an instant boost to our books, it doesn't mean we are able to spend £50m or whatever we receive instantly, it opens up more than that because anyone we sign is going to be amortized. This is probably crucial here, he's our only assets that is homegrown and has some value.
 
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