We're not going to be spending anywhere near that much on transfers - we're extremely financially constrained.
Alejandro Garnacho (out) | Chelsea make enquiries
- Thread starter Luca[4]
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Honestly think it would be one of our worst decisions as a club since fergie left. Talent wise I think he’s up there with the best in his age group and with the right attitude could really be a special player. Selling him isn’t going to magically mean we’re flush with cash to even buy an alternative. It will probably mean we end up buying 2-3 steady players for 15-20m that are used to playing 352. Unlikely to make the impact to get us anywhere but mid table.
Take Martial out but yeah.
Selling the top performing young winger in the world for what we paid for Mason Mount will absolutely kill me.
Must've missed when we had Lamine Yamal on our books
We sold ballon d'or Ronaldo, this is nothing compared to it.
But it does open up the possibility of spending some money, much of the financial constraints are related to PSR, I doubt the coffers are totally empty, we are due 20 million odd from Chelsea in a few months, assuming we don't splash in January that's 80 million, add in some academy players that might be sold for smallish sums and any former players that have sell-on clauses that get sold and we might reach 100 million, whether we can but the right players is a different kettle of fish though
and everyone laughed
the price is what it is because we want to sell him, it's as simple as that
I remember that. Ronaldo cried as we cast him off to Real Madrid. Fergie literally slammed the door in his face as he left.
He called himself a slave when Fergie said he wouldn't sell Madrid a virus
He called himself a slave when Fergie said he wouldn't sell Madrid a virus
Totally comparable innit?
Believe it or not I don’t like it either, fair play to those who said "it's not my money" stance would come back to bite and boy it's happening with a vengeance
Maybe he wants out and is a bad teammate?
Could be. You never know ya canuck.
I will admit that's a worry to say the least, just wish we could raise money without selling him so then would get the best of both worlds
Same here. I dont know how much more i can take. I hate the Glazers, im starting to hate Ineos. I hope the feck off.
We have Amad, currently on an upward trajectory, who has always been highly rated and who can play RW. Bruno or whoever is the left #10 will play centrally. We will always have tons of young attackers looking to make it from the academy for one and whoever we also sign for depth for the two 10 and striker roles could do a job.
People are losing sight over the root cause of our issues. Our players are lacking technically and physically so they are limited in the styles they can be used in. Take any of the top 5 sides and they wouldn't struggle with the transition to 3-4-3 like we are doing. We'd struggle to do anything else other than Mourinho/Ole tactics of 2019.
Not just age. United fans are a bit desperate when it comes to having something remotely "world class", I guess, a bit might be an ego thing or something. Also a fair few of them only watch United games and therefor don't have references to evaluate ability or talent. Nothing wrong with it of course but that leads to some evaluations getting fairly wild. It seems like Garnacho is a bit of the same. I think he is talented and I have no doubt, that he will end up a very good player but right now, I struggle to see much that would have him in the upper echelons. He is gritty and willing, seems to have good work ethic and useful confidence (probably better to have a little too much than a too little). His dribbling and shooting is good but not extraordinarily good (yet), he isn't crazy rapid or crazy strong. He doesn't come across as overly intelligent on the pitch. By all means, this sounds as if he isn't a very promising talent but the potential is a little overstated I guess. I think, something between 55 and 65 would be fair (in my personal opinion) because he is a goal getter and there is a good chance that in the right environment he might flourish. But he needs game time to get there and I don't see a place in our squad to get that level of game time. I also wouldn't call him a winger, he isn't a winger just like Rashford isn't a winger - I know it is a wording thing but to me those players are wing forwards. Both of them don't seem to be too interested in creating anything which is part of the reason our attack look so onedimensional since years as we don't get the balance right and weren't even able to field attacking fullbacks to mitigate the issue.
We are close to rock bottom (hopefully), this is the time for hard decisions unfortunately and if selling one player with potential but questionable fit enables us to bring in 2 or 3 players that do fit, then it is the right thing to do. It isn't the time to stockpile options and benchplayers. The starting eleven is burning and we have to get it right.
I hated INEOS the minute they kept Ten Hag
We didn't sell him cheap, it was a world record fee and he was leaving anyway, If United refused to sell him he would have walked away for nothing at some point and probably been like the second version we got for most of that time
Selling him is a mistake, he will go on to become a great player if he moves to Chelsea or Napoli. You better hope he doesn't sign for Chelsea.
We have had 1 (or 2 if you count Elanga) in the last 10 years make it to the first team? Garnacho was buy from Athletico.
He’s not even the top performing young winger in our team. Right now he’s struggling to get a start for a bottom of the table club. If he was the top performing winger in the world he would be the first name on the team sheet, we wouldn’t be thinking about selling him, and the best clubs in the world would be after him. They’re not though are they.
A winger who isn't particularly fast or strong, not very good at dribbling, not a good passer, not a great crosser, strikes the ball okay.
I'm baffled that people are getting their knickers in a twist.
I'm baffled that people are getting their knickers in a twist.
Because he's utter shite and nobody wants him.
That was Sepp Blatter who compared Ronaldo to a slave, not Ronaldo himself.He called himself a slave when Fergie said he wouldn't sell Madrid a virus
I rate your opinion here quite highly
Why do Chelsea need him? They have Felix, Neto, Sancho, Mudryk, Madueke, Nkunku, Palmer, and Jackson. 8 players for the front four and I’m probably missing some promising youngsters which they always seem to have.
We have Garnacho, Bruno, Amad, Hojlund, Zirkzee, and Mount. 6 attackers for 3 positions. Mount barely counts, Bruno has to play in midfield frequently where we lack depth, and we’re about to sell Garnacho. Antony is gone and Rashford is out of the picture.
We should be adding to our attack, not subtracting. If we do sell Garnacho, we need to replace him immediately with a starter (Cunha, Osimhen, etc…) and a cheap option for the bench (e.g. Jonathan David).
We have a threadbare squad after spending fortunes. Miserable.
We have Garnacho, Bruno, Amad, Hojlund, Zirkzee, and Mount. 6 attackers for 3 positions. Mount barely counts, Bruno has to play in midfield frequently where we lack depth, and we’re about to sell Garnacho. Antony is gone and Rashford is out of the picture.
We should be adding to our attack, not subtracting. If we do sell Garnacho, we need to replace him immediately with a starter (Cunha, Osimhen, etc…) and a cheap option for the bench (e.g. Jonathan David).
We have a threadbare squad after spending fortunes. Miserable.
What do you think he will become top at, and how?
Everyone loves pointing to his statistics without wondering how he got them.
Is he an elite creator? No, pretty terrible one really. Poor decision making consistently to go along with very little take on threat and some historically bad passing abilities based on metrics
Is he an elite finisher or goal scorer? Not really. Could develop this part further as he seems to have an excellent sense in how to position himself and move around the box to find shooting chances, but his ball striking is just spotty right now and not really unique in any way (compared to a young Rashford having excellent power in his strikes or Greenwood being fecking lethal and two footed as a finish)
So he surely must be a physical marvel right? Well not really. He’s got pretty average winger pace and explosiveness and middling balance/strength on and off the ball. Really good dogged work rate and doesn’t shy away from moments which has helped amplify his talents but the people acting like we are selling Santos Neymar here need to get a grip.
Yeah pretty much agree with all of this. Think so many are acting like it’s the end of the world mainly because of the academy connection and lack of experience ever selling any notable players while their young, but I ultimately think it’s the right choice. We can’t afford to NOT refresh the squad and he’s one of the few that has the combination of meh fit and good market value to help us do so. If fans want to get mad at anyone make it be the old regime and Ten Hag, because that 300m spent on dross that can’t even hardly play is what’s put us where we are now
His elite traits are his off the ball movement, his ability to get shots off, his progressive carrying and bringing the ball into danger areas, and in general his productivity. Those are statistically the traits that he is elite at, as a u21 player and the caveats that come with that. He easily has it in him to be a 20 goal and 20 assist a season winger.
He's a 20 year old winger. Of course he's going to be inconsistent. But you don't dump off a talent like that if you are a top club when you are starved of attacking talents.
No, that's not how it works. Selling Garnacho for £50M would free up £50M in space on this year's books. You're right that £250M in inbound transfers could be amortized across five year contract, but the problem is selling Garnacho doesn't create £50M extra room for the next five seasons! It only does in year 1.
This is what all the people hawking the "youth academy products are pure profit" line are missing. It really doesn't matter who you sell.
Take Holjund for example. If we sold him for £50M, we'd have less room than Garnacho for 24-25 because Holjund still has his previous transfer amortization from buying him. But the sale would create additional room in 25-26, and 26-27, because the previous amortization would be gone in those seasons. Overall, selling Holjund for £50M would create £50M in space, just like Garnacho. That £50M would just be spread out over four windows (this Jan, summer 2025, Jan 2026, summer 2026) instead of one.
Every pound counts the same for PSR purposes. You don't get extra profit for homegrown players, that's a myth. You just get access to spend the money earlier. We shouldn't be thinking on one season timelines though, and hence there is no particular advantage to selling Garnacho over other players.
For the record, like:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/score...chtung=&spielerposition_id=&filter=0&yt0=Show
(You can play around with the criteria a great deal, or add cup competetions, which make Garnacho look much better. I find this one the most interesting, though.
Plenty of fairly high-performing twenty-two year olds, too.)
Can't wait for the sale to go through simply so the fanbase can move beyond the hysterics. Utterly exhausting the sound and fury surrounding a player as limited as he is. We're in 13th place. On the back of an 8th place finish last season. We haven't got the cash to spend. We do not have the luxury of waiting around a few more years in the hopes that he comes good. We've been crying out for a new organizational structure with "proper football men" in place to turn the club around and now people can't stomach the steps the new leadership has been essentially forced to take.
I'm looking at top 5 leagues and cups, and UNDER 21 (so 20 and below).
https://www.transfermarkt.com/score...chtung=&spielerposition_id=&filter=0&yt0=Show
You can also look at his metrics, while being a 19/20 year old and playing in a garbage disaster team, showing his elite traits:
- 98th percentile in total shots
- 87th percentile in non pen xG
- 92nd percentile in progressive carries
- 95th percentile for carries into the box
- 87th percentile in progressive passes received
- 97th percentile in penalty area touches
He's 20. He's not a complete player. But he has elite traits, and players as they age tend to round out the weaker parts of their game while refining their elite traits. Garnachos profile lends itself to a player who is going to get 20+ goals per season as a winger and a big danger man.
The 60m euros sounds about right.
I've said this before, but unless we played better, we lose bargaining position to sell high and buy low.
I've said this before, but unless we played better, we lose bargaining position to sell high and buy low.
Thats not how it works, when people say selling youth academy players are pure profit, they mean there are no costs that need to be written off, so every penny that comes from selling a garnacho is pure profit, and player sales are accounted for the year they are sold in not carried forward over the period, so that entire 50mn can be set off against the year's amortization cost of player purchase. If you sell a Hojlund, for 50mn you may or may not end up getting any money in terms of psr because he was bought for a big fee that is being amortized over his contract period or whatever max term uefa rules say, so if we sold Hojlund right now for 50mn, his unamoritized cost will also have to be written off which will be set off against the 50mn, if there is an accounting profit only then is it useful in terms of PSR rules in that case, if not all it will do is reduce the amount of transfer cost that gets amortized in future.
Or we shopped him around when we leaked that we will listen to offers for Mainoo and Garnacho?
And Garnacho is getting bid because unlike so called United fans, other teams can see what he has achieved at 20 years old?
It’s not like there’s a big line up for him. Napoli and maybe Chelsea.
Garnacho has always been an exciting player because of his willingness to run at pace and take on defenders.
His end product can be quite frustrating especially when he picks the wrong option to pass or shoot. Will his football intelligence improve and his willingness to do so?
Compare it to some of the top wingers in the league at the moment like Salah and Saka. Palmer, Foden and Mbuemo to stretch it. I think Garnacho is still some distance away which is possibly why he is not an automatic choice even within our own starting XI.
Don't get me wrong. I'll still appreciate him as our player, but I wouldn't say he is indispensable but the current depth is definitely worrying
His end product can be quite frustrating especially when he picks the wrong option to pass or shoot. Will his football intelligence improve and his willingness to do so?
Compare it to some of the top wingers in the league at the moment like Salah and Saka. Palmer, Foden and Mbuemo to stretch it. I think Garnacho is still some distance away which is possibly why he is not an automatic choice even within our own starting XI.
Don't get me wrong. I'll still appreciate him as our player, but I wouldn't say he is indispensable but the current depth is definitely worrying
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