Alejandro Garnacho (out) | Chelsea make enquiries

[red_de_pologne]

A sad day when he goes, a transformation into a mid table club will be complete. Selling Garnacho to sustain the Mounts and Casemiros and Antonys, so much horrible mistakes need undoing. Let’s hope we cleanse the team and build from scratch, but it’s a long long way ahead.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

He doesnt fit the system but i dont particularly like the system either and thats why im still backing Garancho.

It's a very small change but if we switch from a 3421 to a 343; our attack will improve drastically because players like Bruno wont be played out wide; Amad is exceptional but still looks like a better goalscorer than a creator. Garancho is the same. Zirkzee is starting to look like the better striker that can interconnect the two wider forwards.

I woud be gutted to let him go because ultimately Guardiola could have used Haaland as a False 9 & Klopp could have used firminho as his lewandowski - but neither of them did that.

The general play for those managers and tactics were the same; but both managers had the ability to tweak their foward line by 5% to suit their players and ultimately came out on top even if their defence and midfield stayed the same tactically.

 

[sglowrider]

A sad day when he goes, a transformation into a mid table club will be complete. Selling Garnacho to sustain the Mounts and Casemiros and Antonys, so much horrible mistakes need undoing. Let’s hope we cleanse the team and build from scratch, but it’s a long long way ahead.

We have done that a few times already. We used to call them deadwoods.

We are actually constantly '"rebuilding from scratch'' and getting rid of deadwoods.

 

[DJ_21]

What does that even mean? They know there are others for sell so that’s why they won’t buy them?

Also, I still don’t understand who do you think will fetch a decent fee? It’s certainly not Casemiro, nor Eriksen, nor Rashford or Antony or Malacia or Shaw or even Mount. Technically, the only kinda sellable asset that we have is Dalot, but he’s the only one in this whole squad that I’d trust to stay fit.

It means there to rubbish and every other team can see that hence why there’s a lack of interest in them. And at this point it’s not just about the fee but about getting rid of their ridiculous wage bill. That would save us a fortune

 

[DJ_21]

We never made superstars. We signed the best players from other teams in our league or we spent big money on the most highly rated young players in world football.

We didn’t sign young players with potential who might turn out good. When did we do that successfully?

Very short memory? Ronaldo turned out to be a superstar after joining us. As did Wayne Rooney.

 

[DJ_21]

Like Garnacho?

Ye except we aren’t signing him. He’s being used as a way to make some profit on sales and bring money in

 

[DJ_21]

Dorgeles is two years older would make more business sense for Jim and co to keep Garnacho on for at least another two years whereby a bigger fee will be got for him.

I agree. That all depends if he kicks on though. If he fails to adapt to the new system and performs worse then his price tag probably drops.

 

[Hawks2008]

Yes who can't get us any money

Just because there is a market for Garnacho doesn't mean we need to cash in. Pushing a hungry and talented young player out the door, while keeping players who are happy to steal a living is the complete opposite direction we should be heading in.

 

[LARulz]

If it was the other way around, Chelsea would make us pay over 80 million for a 20 year old winter with international caps and this many games under his belt. Why are we still so shit at selling players?

 

[Tarrou]

100% agree with this. No player is unsellable unless you are a prime Ronaldo or Messi. However the prices being quoted almost makes me feel that we are still being led by Woodward and co.

If we were to target Garnacho from Napoli, they would not quote us less than 100 mil and we are seemingly fine with 55-60!

It's called leverage, and that's exactly how it should work

as much as I hate our management team over the years, this isn't anything they are doing wrong

when teams are open to selling (like we clearly are) it's an entirely different negotiation

 

[croadyman]

Just because there is a market for Garnacho doesn't mean we need to cash in. Pushing a hungry and talented young player out the door, while keeping players who are happy to steal a living is the complete opposite direction we should be heading in.

So how does Amorim start his rebuild then

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[spwd]

I really really think we'll regret this if he does leave.

 

[Mercurial]

Feel wrong to off him and keep so many other bad non contributors.

 

[kouroux]

It would be madness to sell him, specially for the low prices recorded by journalists.

Who do you replace him with? Yamal? Barcelona will ask for 180-200. Arda Güller? Madrid will ask por 120-150. Wirtz or Musiala? Will cost at least 100.

You simply don’t sell your top talents.

I will start seriously doubting Ineos if they let him go, and replace him with a lesser player.

The stupidity of your comparison is actually fascinating.

 

[red_de_pologne]

 

[Malone_Post]

INEOS can get fecked if they actually go through with this and sell him. The only way this would be even slightly acceptable would be if we were getting some ridiculous offer that was too good to turn down. But £60 odd million? Piss off. Amorim can do one too if he’s supporting this decision.

One of the few shinning lights of this club over the past 18 months or so along with Kobbie and errrm yeah that’s about it. And we’re going to sell him on the cheap because we’ve decided to hire a manager whose system doesn’t use wingers. Just another fecking brilliant decision by the braindead morons who run this club.

 

[Highfather_24]

80M minimum for other PL teams.

70M for European clubs.

If we sell for any lesser, we have morons in charge.

 

[Slevs]

Unless there's attitude problems, this is a very bad sell. He can still be trained to play in that attacking role behind the striker.

 

[hellhunter]

Selling your future potential for a system that hasn't really shown anything yet to make you believe it'll stay long term sounds exactly like something we'd do.

Holding on to a player with good sell value until we're looking for loans while covering the wages does as well, to be fair

 

[Klean]

Not sure why people are upset we are selling him. Takes a lot of shots and doesn't score many goals. Constantly makes the wrong decision in attack. He is a good player but the last 2 years he has stalled in his progression despite getting a ton of minutes.

I feel this is another instance where we as fans overvalue our own players when in reality they are just ok players, not world beaters like we pretend they are.

 

[B20]

Very short memory? Ronaldo turned out to be a superstar after joining us. As did Wayne Rooney.

Rooney was already a star and he signed for big money.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Selling your future potential for a system that hasn't really shown anything yet to make you believe it'll stay long term sounds exactly like something we'd do.

Holding on to a player with good sell value until we're looking for loans while covering the wages does as well, to be fair

Yep. What are the odds we go back to system with wingers in 1-2 years and find ourselves in the market for a left winger of his potential only to find out Garnacho level costs us 80m+

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Not sure why people are upset we are selling him. Takes a lot of shots and doesn't score many goals. Constantly makes the wrong decision in attack. He is a good player but the last 2 years he has stalled in his progression despite getting a ton of minutes.

I feel this is another instance where we as fans overvalue our own players when in reality they are just ok players, not world beaters like we pretend they are.

He's 20... If he was 25 yeah fair enough but 20 is nothing, he has years of development ahead.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Not sure why people are upset we are selling him. Takes a lot of shots and doesn't score many goals. Constantly makes the wrong decision in attack. He is a good player but the last 2 years he has stalled in his progression despite getting a ton of minutes.

I feel this is another instance where we as fans overvalue our own players when in reality they are just ok players, not world beaters like we pretend they are.

How many 20 year olds do you know who've scored more goals than Garnacho? He might end up not being a world beater, but he also might. Top clubs keep their top prospects, especially when they're academy graduates.

We're selling him now because he doesn't fit the new manager's system. What happens when Amorim is sacked and his replacement wants a wide, direct, goal-scoring left winger a couple of transfer windows after we've sold Garnacho?

 

[Klean]

He's 20... If he was 25 yeah fair enough but 20 is nothing, he has years of development ahead.

Yes he is 20. But this is his 3rd season playing in the senior team and the 2nd with an almost full time role. Like i said, he is a Good player; but he offers nothing that cannot be replaced by others and on top of that he doesn't fit the system that the coach wants to play. If we are worried, then put a buy-back clause in his deal; but just like many before he will go away and just fade away to mid table relevance. You know who he reminds me of? Wilfreid Zaha. Looks like he can be a world beater 1-2 games a season and the rest you just ask yourself what he is doing.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Yes he is 20. But this is his 3rd season playing in the senior team and the 2nd with an almost full time role. Like i said, he is a Good player; but he offers nothing that cannot be replaced by others and on top of that he doesn't fit the system that the coach wants to play. If we are worried, then put a buy-back clause in his deal; but just like many before he will go away and just fade away to mid table relevance. You know who he reminds me of? Wilfreid Zaha. Looks like he can be a world beater 1-2 games a season and the rest you just ask yourself what he is doing.

 

[TwoSheds]

How many 20 year olds do you know who've scored more goals than Garnacho? He might end up not being a world beater, but he also might. Top clubs keep their top prospects, especially when they're academy graduates.

We're selling him now because he doesn't fit the new manager's system. What happens when Amorim is sacked and his replacement wants a wide, direct, goal-scoring left winger a couple of transfer windows after we've sold Garnacho?

We don't have the luxury of holding on to valuable players "just in case". He's a valuable asset, seemingly wants out, doesn't fit the system that well, and is perhaps not rated quite as highly within the club as he is by you. That being the case, getting a good fee and backing ourselves to bring in a decent replacement (or two) doesn't seem like the worst bet. There are also other good young forwards within the club who could make a breakthrough in the coming years if the replacement doesn't pan out.

 

[Klean]

How many 20 year olds do you know who've scored more goals than Garnacho? He might end up not being a world beater, but he also might. Top clubs keep their top prospects, especially when they're academy graduates.

We're selling him now because he doesn't fit the new manager's system. What happens when Amorim is sacked and his replacement wants a wide, direct, goal-scoring left winger a couple of transfer windows after we've sold Garnacho?

Its not about his age. He has played 1.5 seasons of full senior team football. He averages .35 G+A per 90 (taken from fb ref). Thats 13 goal/assist contributions per season. Is that good enough?

Ask it a different way... What teams is he getting into the lineup at? Not Liverpool, Not City, Not Spurs, Not Chelsea, Not Newcastle, Not Arsenal. Thats 6 teams there at top, and if we are trying to measure ourselves versus them; then why are we settling for a player that our rivals wouldn't take.

 

[Cerberus]

This team desperately needs goals yet we're going to sell one of our most productive players and the only person we're linked with as a result is a raw, unproven left back from a poor Serie A team.

Genuinely not comprehending the strategy here.

 

[hellhunter]

This team desperately needs goals yet we're going to sell one of our most productive players and the only person we're linked with as a result is a raw, unproven left back from a poor Serie A team.

Genuinely not comprehending the strategy here.

'Strategy' doing a lot of heavy lifting here

 

[Mrs Smith]

Very short memory? Ronaldo turned out to be a superstar after joining us. As did Wayne Rooney.

I think Rooney was already a superstar...you paid £20M+ for him in 2004 when he was a teenager.. Same with Ince - record for a Teenage. With Keane, United waited 'til he was 22 but still paid a British Record for

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

We don't have the luxury of holding on to valuable players "just in case". He's a valuable asset, seemingly wants out, doesn't fit the system that well, and is perhaps not rated quite as highly within the club as he is by you. That being the case, getting a good fee and backing ourselves to bring in a decent replacement (or two) doesn't seem like the worst bet. There are also other good young forwards within the club who could make a breakthrough in the coming years if the replacement doesn't pan out.

This is exactly when you hold to potentially valuable players just in case, when most of the ones who have the right age profile are terrible.

Again, not fitting the system well 2 months into a new manager - one who has had the worst start in United's PL history - is madness, especially when you can see the player is trying to adapt.

I am not advocating for a blanket refusal, I agree there's a price for which most of our players should be available - I also agree that it's a subjective view. But this price is not even in the ballpark of that threshold for quite a few posters on here, and for good reason - we have (and other clubs have) spent way more on lesser prospects with shorter contracts. 50-60m is terribly undervaluing our asset.

Also, back ourselves to get two replacements? You realize that's blind faith, right? We've not managed to get two top-performing wingers in more than a decade.

If we had the replacements in, then I'd be more amenable to that price, too. But right now it's madness.

 

[DJ_21]

Not sure why people are upset we are selling him. Takes a lot of shots and doesn't score many goals. Constantly makes the wrong decision in attack. He is a good player but the last 2 years he has stalled in his progression despite getting a ton of minutes.

I feel this is another instance where we as fans overvalue our own players when in reality they are just ok players, not world beaters like we pretend they are.

Helped us get something against Arsenal in the Fa cup with his ‘correct decision’ assist, and against Liverpool with assisting Amad

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Honestly not bothered if we sell this lad.
The only thing he's got that people are desperate to keep hold of his is age.

He reminds me quite a lot of Rashford when he was younger. I was never convinced, as his game just felt limited, but you just had belief because he was young enough, and I think Garnacho will go the same way as Rashford.

His game is really limited, sprinkled in with moments of brilliance, and thats what United have relied on for the last decade, moments of brilliance from players to get us out of the shit.
If we can get a healthy fee for him, and his PSR value or whatever it is, and can bring in two to four players form it, I think it'll be good business.

Look at Amad for an example. He's absolutely dragging us right now, Garnacho never has or will do that, and in 5 or 6 years, Garnacho will be half the value as his main attraction, his age, will have gone from him

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Its not about his age. He has played 1.5 seasons of full senior team football. He averages .35 G+A per 90 (taken from fb ref). Thats 13 goal/assist contributions per season. Is that good enough?

Ask it a different way... What teams is he getting into the lineup at? Not Liverpool, Not City, Not Spurs, Not Chelsea, Not Newcastle, Not Arsenal. Thats 6 teams there at top, and if we are trying to measure ourselves versus them; then why are we settling for a player that our rivals wouldn't take.

None of those clubs (bar Chelsea and Palmer) are as reliant on such a young and raw player to carry their attack, and neither should we. But the solution is to get a reliable, established starter in who would be capable of walking in to throse sides and measuring up to such comparisons, not selling our prospects. What's you're expecting of him is ridiculous - again, none of the other clubs expect anything of that sort from their 20 year olds, even Palmer is one of many options that they're constantly looking to upgrade.

 

[Cerberus]

Yes he is 20. But this is his 3rd season playing in the senior team and the 2nd with an almost full time role. Like i said, he is a Good player; but he offers nothing that cannot be replaced by others and on top of that he doesn't fit the system that the coach wants to play. If we are worried, then put a buy-back clause in his deal; but just like many before he will go away and just fade away to mid table relevance. You know who he reminds me of? Wilfreid Zaha. Looks like he can be a world beater 1-2 games a season and the rest you just ask yourself what he is doing.

He's already at 13 G+A this season, who exactly do you expect us to replace him with by the end of this transfer window? I haven't seen a link to a single player that can come in and bring that kind of immediate impact. If we're selling him for PSR reasons, why wouldn't we wait until the summer and let his value continue to rise while we can adequately line up proven forwards to bring into the team? You can't take a squad that's utterly starving for goals and sell one of the main goalscorers to bring in a wingback, that's utter madness.

 

[NotThatSoph]

How many 20 year olds do you know who've scored more goals than Garnacho? He might end up not being a world beater, but he also might. Top clubs keep their top prospects, especially when they're academy graduates.

We're selling him now because he doesn't fit the new manager's system. What happens when Amorim is sacked and his replacement wants a wide, direct, goal-scoring left winger a couple of transfer windows after we've sold Garnacho?

Every top club will sometimes sell one of their top 5 prospects, there is nothing unusual about that.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Every top club will sometimes sell one of their top 5 prospects, there is nothing unusual about that.

From a position of strength, when it has no serious impact on their first team. We're sorting one of our two top prospects when he's an established part of the first team squad, to spend more than half his fee on another wIld card left back 'prospect' .

 

[hellhunter]

From a position of strength, when it has no serious impact on their first team. We're sorting one of our two top prospects when he's an established part of the first team squad, to spend more than half his fee on another wIld card left back 'prospect' .

This is the crux of it, isn't it? If we spent the fee on say Cunha, you could argue it would be an immediate improvement, even if Garnacho may (or may not) have a higher potential down the line. It also negates the argument that we 'need to sell'. Maybe we need to sell to buy, but then buy a LB project?