Alejandro Garnacho (out) | Chelsea make enquiries

El-Manos said:
Are we that team now that sell our most promising players?
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SuperiorXI said:
We shouldn't sell him unless the offer is ridiculous. I'm talking north of 100m.

People forget what a talent he is and what he could become.
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I think people need to start being realistic about Garnacho's ability and his ceiling. He's a good player, or will be a good player in time, but he won't be a superstar. Nani would also look like he was blessed by the gods in this team. He can't even consistently get into this current United team at the moment because he's so bad at the basics.

He has a long way to go, and it's clear that the coaching team/board don't feel that he has the mentality or character to achieve world stardom, otherwise this wouldn't even be a debate. For what it's worth, he's been criticised multiple times by Bruno, Ten Hag, coaching staff etc for not putting a shift in during training sessions unless the cameras are there.

I'm not saying he's a bad player but lets stop this young age = potential stuff. Football is littered with players who never fulfilled their 'potential'.
 
redNATION said:
Napoli insist on inflated fees for their players, we should be pushing for 90-100m, he’s one of the best young players in Europe.
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Agreed. We don’t usually hold many cards when we’re selling a player. He’s usually either 30+, on huge wages, or demonstrably shit.

Not this time. Make us an offer we can’t refuse or get lost.
 
crossy1686 said:
I think people need to start being realistic about Garnacho's ability and his ceiling. He's a good player, or will be a good player in time, but he won't be a superstar. Nani would also look like he was blessed by the gods in this team. He can't even consistently get into this current United team at the moment because he's so bad at the basics.

He has a long way to go, and it's clear that the coaching team/board don't feel that he has the mentality or character to achieve world stardom, otherwise this wouldn't even be a debate. For what it's worth, he's been criticised multiple times by Bruno, Ten Hag, coaching staff etc for not putting a shift in during training sessions unless the cameras are there.

I'm not saying he's a bad player but lets stop this young age = potential stuff. Football is littered with players who never fulfilled their 'potential'.
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No one knows whether he will develop into a superstar but the fact is that he has become one of our most effective attacking outlets at a very young age. He is young and raw, but it is not just down to him, the coaches need to train him to make him complete, everyone around him needs to help him realise his potential. Ronaldo would never have become what he was without the people around him.

He is not perfect and has a lot of work to do, but you rarely see talent like this. We should not cast off our talented young players just to balance the books. 70m is not enough in this market for a player like him.

There is the unknowns like you refer to. We don't know what he is like behind the scenes, we just get snippets and rumours. If he is a bad egg then it's a different conversation, but they have to be sure with a talent like him.
 
There is some serious overrating going on here in regards to Garnacho , as usual some simply can't look past the numbers .
 
SuperiorXI said:
No one knows whether he will develop into a superstar but the fact is that he has become one of our most effective attacking outlets at a very young age. He is young and raw, but it is not just down to him, the coaches need to train him to make him complete, everyone around him needs to help him realise his potential. Ronaldo would never have become what he was without the people around him.

He is not perfect and has a lot of work to do, but you rarely see talent like this. We should not cast off our talented young players just to balance the books. 70m is not enough in this market for a player like him.

There is the unknowns like you refer to. We don't know what he is like behind the scenes, we just get snippets and rumours. If he is a bad egg then it's a different conversation, but they have to be sure with a talent like him.
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I don't think he's a bad egg, I think he has to want to become the best player in the world and train like that every day though. Ronaldo only got to where he was because he's a freak, Garnacho, like most people in the world, probably doesn't have that level of dedication.

He's leading those stats because Rashford has given up and we've got no other winger outlet except Antony. The stats are good but they can be misleading. You drop Garnacho in the City team last season for example and he hardly plays from the bench.

He's a talent, no doubt, but where he goes from here is up to him. Many players before him never get past this point.

Personally I wouldn't entertain selling him unless the offer is around £50m + £20m with future add ons, and a £100m buy back. We can still sell him in 3 years time for £30m if it doesn't work out and he doesn't improve. There's no value in selling him today for £30m-£40m.
 
SuperiorXI said:
No one knows whether he will develop into a superstar but the fact is that he has become one of our most effective attacking outlets at a very young age. He is young and raw, but it is not just down to him, the coaches need to train him to make him complete, everyone around him needs to help him realise his potential. Ronaldo would never have become what he was without the people around him.

He is not perfect and has a lot of work to do, but you rarely see talent like this. We should not cast off our talented young players just to balance the books. 70m is not enough in this market for a player like him.

There is the unknowns like you refer to. We don't know what he is like behind the scenes, we just get snippets and rumours. If he is a bad egg then it's a different conversation, but they have to be sure with a talent like him.
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70m would be an incredible fee to be fair
 
looking at some of the 20 year old players in the Premier League

who is really outperforming Garnacho in what has been a relatively poor season for Garnacho. We know he's not a Yamal level player but we need a bit of realism about a 20 year old with huge pressure on him in one of the worst United sides in my 46 years.

Doku is 2 years older in a much better side and has less goals. They spent 65m euro on him

Enciso is similarly aged and hasn't scored

Evan Ferguson more of an out and out striker and has 1 goal

I think Garnacho is in a dip in form but I would expect him to develop a hell of a lot over the coming years

United are built on young, we shouldn't be looking to move on players of this profile unless we are sure he's not right for the system or not good enough, both of which we do not know.
 
Garnacho is a hot prospect but doesn’t fit Amorim”s system. He is a potentially world class wide player who likes to attack space. Top notch acceleration, good stamina to make those runs again and again, great curled shots from the angle, good anticipation.

However, in a hybrid role he will be half of the player he could be. His technique is not consistent, footballing IQ (teamwork mainly), ability to keep the ball in tight space are not likely to develop to elite level.

Verdict: he is an ideal player to cash out, will be sold.
 
King7Eric said:
I've seen this point repeated so many times here. Question for everyone saying this - What happens in case Amorim doesn't succeed and leaves in 2 years? And then next manager plays with wide forwards/wingers ( as majority of the managers in the world do)?

We then go around looking for a winger/wide forward and pay over the odds for them. Yes I agree Garnacho isn't going to a world beater but he is going to develop into a very good player. So why is the Caf, who bemoaned managers having too much say in recruitment for years, now again want to buy/sell players based on specific manager traits?

What was the point of setting up this fabled structure ( which we were crying about for years) if we are still going to base our recruitment based on individual managers' requirements?

The only reason we should be selling Garnacho is if we seem him not to be good enough. Which I think at 20 he has shown he is a decent enough prospect who could morph into something way better. If he doesn't, then we can still sell him in a couple of years.
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If that was the scenario in 2 years then that would be a complete failure of the football management team and an extension of what's gone on for the last decade

There is only 1 real reason to sell Garnacho, and that is simply because he's the most expendable of the players that would raise the money that would allow us to get in the players that we need to move forward

The PSR rules mean we are limited in what we can spend without selling, Eriksen is leaving and possibly Casemiro, that leaves is very light with a lot of inexperience in midfield, we need a LWB unless we're going to rely on Malacia and Dalot, Amass might come thru but that's a hard ask to depend on him to be the first choice, and upfront needs reinforcements because Hojlund and Zirkzee as the 2 main men isn't likely to cut t either
 
King7Eric said:
If he wants to leave that's a separate discussion. But I haven't heard from anyone saying Garnacho is pushing for a move.

Yes he isn't currently a good fit, but doesn't mean he can't be developed into one. He's just 20, not 30 who can't learn a new position.

Given how the wingers we've bought recently have been the likes of Sancho and Antony, I wouldn't necessarily trust us to be able to find players who can better Garnacho's (frankly modest) output.

No it doesn't and that's one of the reasons why we are in this PSR mess. Also, players are kind of more expensive than staff members, so not really the same ballpark.

The whole point of moving from a manager to a Head Coach is to ensure that the coach is responsible for getting the best out of players that are recruited by the Technical Director or Sporting Director. Garnacho is just 20 and of course will be inconsistent. People want to develop young players but don't want to put up with the pain that comes along with it. You don't become a better player sitting on the bench, you do it by making mistakes on the pitch. It's frankly insane the number of people who want to get rid of a talented youngster because they think we'll be able to purchase better players. If it was so easy why haven't we been able to do that the past decade? And I don't say this just because he's from the academy, I'll say the same for Hojlund too.
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I’m not sure Garnacho has the technical level to play inside at the required level.

He thrives with space in front of him to attack. A great ball carrier, not in my view a great dribbler (in tight spaces).
 
gajender said:
There is some serious overrating going on here in regards to Garnacho , as usual some simply can't look past the numbers .
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The thing is he's only 20 and has been really good since coming into team more than 2 years ago. At that age of 18-20 players will rarely be as good as Rooney, Mbappe etc were. Ronaldo was inconsistent and his first top season was when he was 21/22. Not saying Garnacho is a level to talent those players were but he'll clearly be very good player at United or elsewhere.

Wouldn't be happy if we sell Garnacho but if it does happen it'll probably be because he's not right fit for this system (plus we have to sell to buy).
 
crossy1686 said:
I think people need to start being realistic about Garnacho's ability and his ceiling. He's a good player, or will be a good player in time, but he won't be a superstar. Nani would also look like he was blessed by the gods in this team. He can't even consistently get into this current United team at the moment because he's so bad at the basics.

He has a long way to go, and it's clear that the coaching team/board don't feel that he has the mentality or character to achieve world stardom, otherwise this wouldn't even be a debate. For what it's worth, he's been criticised multiple times by Bruno, Ten Hag, coaching staff etc for not putting a shift in during training sessions unless the cameras are there.

I'm not saying he's a bad player but lets stop this young age = potential stuff. Football is littered with players who never fulfilled their 'potential'.
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Himself & Mainoo are our 2 most promising players. Nobody knows how they will turn out but you don’t sell those type of players if you have ambition.
 
Selling him is idiotic unless you can replace him cheaply which we can't. We need more forwards not less.
 
I think it’s really simple. We’re not going to sell him on the cheap to raise quick funds which is what buyers are counting on.

We would however listen to offers at or above market rate.
 
El-Manos said:
Himself & Mainoo are our 2 most promising players. Nobody knows how they will turn out but you don’t sell those type of players if you have ambition.
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Mainoo is the one we'd struggle to replace but he still has a long way to go also. We would have said the same about Januzai, Greenwood and Rashford once, look where we are today. Garnacho isn't Ronaldo, he'll never be Ronaldo, he'll be lucky if he has a career that emulates Nani. To say we can't sell these players because they might go on to be the best player in the world ever is madness. How many times have we had the best player in the world come through our academy? Twice? Three times? In our entire existence as a football club? We just happen to be sitting on two at once right now? Let's be realistic.
 
If we could sell and I had confidence we'd use he money to buy someone who better fits the system, then sure. But we won't.
 
crossy1686 said:
Numbers compounded by his age. People seem to think potential is self fulfilling, when in reality everything has to go right for a player to reach their pinnacle.
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alexthelion said:
Totally agree
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BorisManUtd said:
The thing is he's only 20 and has been really good since coming into team more than 2 years ago. At that age of 18-20 players will rarely be as good as Rooney, Mbappe etc were. Ronaldo was inconsistent and his first top season was when he was 21/22. Not saying Garnacho is a level to talent those players were but he'll clearly be very good player at United or elsewhere.

Wouldn't be happy if we sell Garnacho but if it does happen it'll probably be because he's not right fit for this system (plus we have to sell to buy).
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Thing is again this is my personal opinion his potential ceiling isn't that high because his innate talent and fundamentals aren't that great .

Put it this way chances of us regreting not selling him if a good bid arises are greater than us regreting selling him .
 
Don't really see what the outrage is about? If a reasonable offer comes and he doesn't mind leaving, what's the problem? You'd think it's prime Ronaldinho United are selling here.
 
gajender said:
There is some serious overrating going on here in regards to Garnacho , as usual some simply can't look past the numbers .
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What overreacting? That we want 60-70m? How is that overreacting?

You cant also ignore numbers.. What you are doing is picking and chosing which players you want to use the numbers based on if you like the player or not.

No player improved under the coaching of Ten Hag, this is Garnacho's 2nd full season, but yeah we shouldn't talk about his numbers considering he is young?

People are not against selling him a 60-70m.
 
romufc said:
What overreacting? That we want 60-70m? How is that overreacting?

You cant also ignore numbers.. What you are doing is picking and chosing which players you want to use the numbers based on if you like the player or not.

No player improved under the coaching of Ten Hag, this is Garnacho's 2nd full season, but yeah we shouldn't talk about his numbers considering he is young?

People are not against selling him a 60-70m.
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You can guarantee if Dortmund were selling they would want £70m+.
 
romufc said:
What overreacting? That we want 60-70m? How is that overreacting?

You cant also ignore numbers.. What you are doing is picking and chosing which players you want to use the numbers based on if you like the player or not.

No player improved under the coaching of Ten Hag, this is Garnacho's 2nd full season, but yeah we shouldn't talk about his numbers considering he is young?

People are not against selling him a 60-70m.
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You might wanna go through the thread again if you don't believe there is serious overrating of Garnacho .
 
gajender said:
There is some serious overrating going on here in regards to Garnacho , as usual some simply can't look past the numbers .
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There is also some crazy underrating. Most of the people on here wouldn’t flinch if we were after him and Napoli are asking for 70m+.

We’d get essays about how he’s so young and we’d be set for a decade, his numbers, the Puskas, the players he keeps out of his NT squad. The thread would be flooded with his amazing highlights. There would be tons of tweets and YouTube videos about how skint the Glazers and Ratcliffe are, and how we should give Napoli what they’re asking for.

Not many things are consistent across our whole fanbase, but the underrating of our players and overrating of opposition players is a very consistent theme.
 
Unless the offer is silly money, it would be madness to sell either Garnacho or Mainoo. We need to keep our fantastic young players and dispose of our deadwood. If we keep the deadwood and dispose of our fantastic young players, questions will be asked WTF are the actual priorities of the Glazers and Ratcliffe.
 
lex talionis said:
Unless the offer is silly money, it would be madness to sell either Garnacho or Mainoo. We need to keep our fantastic young players and dispose of our deadwood. If we keep the deadwood and dispose of our fantastic young players, questions will be asked WTF are the actual priorities of the Glazers and Ratcliffe.
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But think we also need money and one of Garnacho/Mainoo could be sold. Garnacho more likely for various reasons.
 
lex talionis said:
Unless the offer is silly money, it would be madness to sell either Garnacho or Mainoo. We need to keep our fantastic young players and dispose of our deadwood. If we keep the deadwood and dispose of our fantastic young players, questions will be asked WTF are the actual priorities of the Glazers and Ratcliffe.
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All reports suggest the price that would see United even entertain an offer is around £70m, so it's safe to say we aren't selling either of them unless it's a mad offer.
 
gajender said:
You might wanna go through the thread again if you don't believe there is serious overrating of Garnacho .
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I have and alot of people are saying the same thing... the offer has to be 70m. That is not an overreaction.
 
TheGame said:
You can guarantee if Dortmund were selling they would want £70m+.
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Yep.. but its United fans right. If we sold for £38m which Napoli want, then they will moan about how we dont sell well and get mugged off.

If we want 70m for a 20 year old with potential.. its an overreaction.

Its simple.. fans who dislike him, would sell him for £30m because it fits the agenda that he is rubbish.. The same fans will have a go at others for wanting market value for a player that is young.

Chelsea paid £45m for Palmer who barely had PL mins. Yet these lot want us to sell a player who's had good numbers for peanuts.
 
Three reasons why he should be sold....

1) He doesn't fit the profile of the 10s that Amorim had at Sporting - Goncalves and Trincao. Both more technical and comfortable in tight areas, playing more central and in their passing and link up play. Could Garnacho be remoulded to play like them? Maybe, but it it could take time. And this is of course assuming that Amorim wants his 10s at United to have those same profiles.

2) PSR. United have been awful in transfer dealings for the ten years. Some of the worst of that came under ETH. At some point, you have to pay for these mistakes if you want to progress. The players that most fans want rid of are the ones with little to no sell on value. Some like Lindelof, Evans and Eriksen will leave on frees at the end of the season and they will have to be replaced. Sell Garnacho and it allows us to go into the market and potentially bring in 2 or 3 players with that money in the summer as we can amortize the transfer fee and wages over the length of the contracts.

3) Amorim is a manager that needs profiles of players we dont currently have, namely wingbacks and creative 10s. Plus, we still dont look to have an ideal fit at center forward. If we dont sell, how are we going to be able to bring in the profiles he needs? The recruitment needs to be fast forwarded or else we may be a work in progress for some time. With INEOS and Jim beng inpatient, does he get that time?
 
Being realistic about the financial situation and likely no European football next year we're probably going to see someone we wouldn't otherwise want to leave go.

If he wants the move and the money is right and we have an idea for how to fill the gap in the team then I can see us accepting it as he's not a perfect fit at a 10 and we'll rarely use wingers now
 
romufc said:
I have and alot of people are saying the same thing... the offer has to be 70m. That is not an overreaction.
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Newer reports seem like it is a lot closer now, £59m being widely reported. I reckon that + decent sell on (as he will 100% go La Liga at some point) will be enough for Ineos.
 
Drainy said:
Being realistic about the financial situation and likely no European football next year we're probably going to see someone we wouldn't otherwise want to leave go.

If he wants the move and the money is right and we have an idea for how to fill the gap in the team then I can see us accepting it as he's not a perfect fit at a 10 and we'll rarely use wingers now
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Agree. If the boss doesn't think he is the best fit for what he needs and it allows us to bring others, then really, it is a no brainer. Sentiment needs to go out of the window.

Tough decisions need to be made to get us out of the shit we have been put in. We are loaded with players who no one wants - Casemiro, Antony, Rashford and they are on huge money.

Then we have permanent crocks like Shaw and Mount, both on big contracts.

We have made big money signings who have massive question marks over them like Hojlund and Zirkzee who are on long term contracts. Neither look fit for purpose at this point to fill the center forward position.

Plus the players who may be surplus to requirements due to Amorims system - Dalot isn't a wing back and as much as we like him, nor is Mazraoui. Are De Ligt, Maguire and Martinez the long term answers?

Dont forget the players who will likely leave on a free - Eriksen, Lindelof and Evans. Those bodies will need to be replaced.

I hope some of these players will improve in time under Amorim.

Im a big fan of Mainoo, but if it is a case of selling him and Garnacho and being able to bring in 5 or 6 players due to the PSR rules, it may be the best way to give Amorim what he needs.
 
gaffs said:
Agree. If the boss doesn't think he is the best fit for what he needs and it allows us to bring others, then really, it is a no brainer. Sentiment needs to go out of the window.

Tough decisions need to be made to get us out of the shit we have been put in. We are loaded with players who no one wants - Casemiro, Antony, Rashford and they are on huge money.

Then we have permanent crocks like Shaw and Mount, both on big contracts.

We have made big money signings who have massive question marks over them like Hojlund and Zirkzee who are on long term contracts. Neither look fit for purpose at this point to fill the center forward position.

Plus the players who may be surplus to requirements due to Amorims system - Dalot isn't a wing back and as much as we like him, nor is Mazraoui. Are De Ligt, Maguire and Martinez the long term answers?

Dont forget the players who will likely leave on a free - Eriksen, Lindelof and Evans. Those bodies will need to be replaced.

I hope some of these players will improve in time under Amorim.

Im a big fan of Mainoo, but if it is a case of selling him and Garnacho and being able to bring in 5 or 6 players due to the PSR rules, it may be the best way to give Amorim what he needs.
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He literally said just yesterday :

"He's finding the best way to play in this system. He's improving during training. He started the last game. Let's see tomorrow. I think he CHANGED the way he sees himself."

It's not a case of selling to buy a better suited player, it's a case of just selling whatever we can to comply with PSR.
 
TheGame said:
You can guarantee if Dortmund were selling they would want £70m+.
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The same people on here would likely be buzzing with us paying £70m for him if we were being linked with signing him too. I don't get it.
 
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