Alejandro Garnacho (out) | Chelsea make enquiries

Perhaps it’s true that we genuinely need to sell someone if we want to bring anyone in. From that POV he’s one of few who’d generate a sum that we could work with.
He’s also a bit immature, for example tweeting that the emirates is a dump. We all think it but by tweeting it he opens himself up to trouble. There’s a lot to manage with him.

Bottom line I’d prefer to sell him over Mainoo IF we really have to sell someone
 
golden_blunder said:
Perhaps it’s true that we genuinely need to sell someone if we want to bring anyone in. From that POV he’s one of few who’d generate a sum that we could work with.
He’s also a bit immature, for example tweeting that the emirates is a dump. We all think it but by tweeting it he opens himself up to trouble. There’s a lot to manage with him.

Bottom line I’d prefer to sell him over Mainoo IF we really have to sell someone
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That is my read as well.

If our choices are - don't spend in the summer but keep Garnacho. Or sell Garnacho, create 60-70m of PSR profit and spend 200m on the back of that. I think Amorim will pick the latter.
 
I thought he and Dalot actually looked like a good combo in this formation on the left when they've briefly played there together (notably the 2nd half vs Bodo Glimt which I think was the best half of football we've had under Amorim and should've scored 3 or 4). It meant Amorim played it slightly differently to a typical LWB+LAM, as Dalot drifted inside into the LAM position when attacking and Garnacho drifted wide into his more natural LWF role, but we had a lot of dangerous attacks down that side, just Garnacho left his shooting boots at home.

I think those two there with Bruno at RAM & Diallo at RWB is currently our best WB/AM combo for against weaker teams, so would definitely prefer to keep him at the moment and give him some more chances in this system.
 
golden_blunder said:
Perhaps it’s true that we genuinely need to sell someone if we want to bring anyone in. From that POV he’s one of few who’d generate a sum that we could work with.
He’s also a bit immature, for example tweeting that the emirates is a dump. We all think it but by tweeting it he opens himself up to trouble. There’s a lot to manage with him.

Bottom line I’d prefer to sell him over Mainoo IF we really have to sell someone
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I agree 100% added to him not seeming to fit with Amorim's system, and on the face of it engineering the Napoli interest himself (or his camp).

Coldly it comes down to price and what having the funds would mean, the £35m initially touted is not worth it but £70m or £55m with 20% sell on and there is a discussion to be had, if selling Garnacho gets us 2-3 players who can improve the team right now then it seems common sense.

Is it a risk? yeah, Garna has a potentially high ceiling, he could find his groove and become a star player for Amorim, he would have to improve his decision making, playing as a right 10 could help him develop but Amad is a better option right now, or he could go to Napoli and be worth £100m+ in a couple of years (why sell on would be ideal), but it is only a few games ago that he was almost as reluctant to run as Rashford, if we keep him there are no guarantees that he would not regress and in 12 months time be worth £30m or less.

I hope Garna stays and develops into a legend here, but whilst good he is more Nani than Ronaldo, if we sell for a good price and use the money to fix the problems we have this January I can make my peace with it.
 
golden_blunder said:
Perhaps it’s true that we genuinely need to sell someone if we want to bring anyone in. From that POV he’s one of few who’d generate a sum that we could work with.
He’s also a bit immature, for example tweeting that the emirates is a dump. We all think it but by tweeting it he opens himself up to trouble. There’s a lot to manage with him.

Bottom line I’d prefer to sell him over Mainoo IF we really have to sell someone
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Why not sell Lindelof first
 
Andy_Cole said:
Ratcliffe doing all the things Glazers wouldn’t think of doing.

Add selling our prized assets to the list.
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Yeah thank god the Glazers never considered forcing through sales of players like Rashford, Martial, Pogba, Lingard, McTominay etc.
 
I'd definitely sell him for the right price, which for me would be around 50m or a bit more.

I'm not sure he has a clear place in this system, and I don't think he has "world class" potential either, not at all IMO.

I'm afraid the fans expecting him to reach peak Son/Hazard/Mané/Salah/Saka/Sterling/Mahrez/Rashford/Sánchez levels one day - to list some of the best PL wingers from the last ~7-8 years, that were genuinely world class or even better in some cases - are going to be disappointed. Obviously, you might disagree with me on Garnacho's potential ceiling, but to me he's good at most things but isn't really exceptional at anything. His relentlessness is probably his best trait, which is very valuable, but he's just a solid PL level wingers otherwise IMO.
 
Rojofiam said:
I'd definitely sell him for the right price. Which for me would be around 50m or a bit more.
He doesn't have a clear place in this system for me and I don't think he has "world class" potential either, not at all for me.

I'm afraid the posters expecting him to reach peak Son/Hazard/Mané/Salah/Saka/Sterling/Mahrez/Rashford/Sánchez level one day, to list some of the best PL wingers from the last ~7-8 years, are going to be disappointed. Obviously, you might disagree with me on Garnacho's potential ceiling, but to me he's good at most things but isn't really exceptional at anything. His relentlessness is probably his best trait, which is very valuable, but he's just a solid PL level wingers otherwise IMO.
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I've seen this point repeated so many times here. Question for everyone saying this - What happens in case Amorim doesn't succeed and leaves in 2 years? And then next manager plays with wide forwards/wingers ( as majority of the managers in the world do)?

We then go around looking for a winger/wide forward and pay over the odds for them. Yes I agree Garnacho isn't going to a world beater but he is going to develop into a very good player. So why is the Caf, who bemoaned managers having too much say in recruitment for years, now again want to buy/sell players based on specific manager traits?

What was the point of setting up this fabled structure ( which we were crying about for years) if we are still going to base our recruitment based on individual managers' requirements?

The only reason we should be selling Garnacho is if we seem him not to be good enough. Which I think at 20 he has shown he is a decent enough prospect who could morph into something way better. If he doesn't, then we can still sell him in a couple of years.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Maybe Amorim has his eyes on a better player? Garnacho has not impressed under Amorim but he is still very young. Still think he will remain at OT.
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Not impressed – apart from setting up key goals recently? You can see opposition defenders know that they have a job on their hands, especially when he comes on as a sub. As you allude to, I don't know what people expect from such a young player. I respect Amorim's plan and who he needs to fulfil that, to me that's a different issue, but I don't see a problem with Garnacho's abilities or his attitude.
 
Shaw's Shank Redemption said:
The lowest id consider selling him is 65m-75m and im a big fan but

Im also a fan that would sell amad for 90-95mil million too :rolleyes:

If people want gyokeres so much, id rather sell Hojlund tbh than sell Garnacho.
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I think that would be the minimum starting point of any deal that would actually bring United to the table to negotiate.

I don't think the club are looking to sell at all, which is the significant detail a lot of people are overlooking. If a club want to sign Garnacho, they're going to have to pay a price that reflects the player he could be, not the player he is right now. This isn't anything new, look what we had to pay for Amad and Højlund, amongst others.

Napoli are being cheapskates because 1) they think we need the money, and 2) we have always sold our players for peanuts. They are probably also overplaying his recent ommision from the side and conflating that with what is happening to Rashford.

If they spoke to his representatives then they probably didn't say a hard no to him wanting to go there. He'd be a starter, probably be playing in the UCL this and next season, and in line for another pay rise. But I doubt he'd kick up a fuss and try to force his way out to lower his value, which is what they probably want him to do. At the end of the day, Napoli is a step down from United.

I don't think he's going anywhere, especially not this month, and not to Napoli for a pathetic €40m.
 
El-Manos said:
Are we that team now that sell our most promising players?
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Agree, not the way to go. But sometimes when changing culture, there will always be losses, there will always be scapegoats, change might be a bit more radical than necessary. Hope not, but wouldn't surprise me.
 
Surprised this is still an ongoing topic. I can't see the club selling him at all.
 
Amorim has come out and said Garnacho needs to learn to play in a newer position and play inside but is playing well and seeing as he’s scoring and assisting says that Amorim is coaching him well, longer term having Amad and Garnacho behind a striker gives the options of them going out wide and playing inside so I don’t see Garnacho going anywhere unless someone offers £70+ million.
 
King7Eric said:
I've seen this point repeated so many times here. Question for everyone saying this - What happens in case Amorim doesn't succeed and leaves in 2 years? And then next manager plays with wide forwards/wingers ( as majority of the managers in the world do)?

We then go around looking for a winger/wide forward and pay over the odds for them. Yes I agree Garnacho isn't going to a world beater but he is going to develop into a very good player. So why is the Caf, who bemoaned managers having too much say in recruitment for years, now again want to buy/sell players based on specific manager traits?

What was the point of setting up this fabled structure ( which we were crying about for years) if we are still going to base our recruitment based on individual managers' requirements?

The only reason we should be selling Garnacho is if we seem him not to be good enough. Which I think at 20 he has shown he is a decent enough prospect who could morph into something way better. If he doesn't, then we can still sell him in a couple of years.
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It’s not the only reason. The player may see more opportunities at Napoli.

We may also be able to improve 2 starting positions for the cost of one promising player who isn’t currently a good fit.
 
King7Eric said:
I've seen this point repeated so many times here. Question for everyone saying this - What happens in case Amorim doesn't succeed and leaves in 2 years? And then next manager plays with wide forwards/wingers ( as majority of the managers in the world do)?

We then go around looking for a winger/wide forward and pay over the odds for them. Yes I agree Garnacho isn't going to a world beater but he is going to develop into a very good player. So why is the Caf, who bemoaned managers having too much say in recruitment for years, now again want to buy/sell players based on specific manager traits?

What was the point of setting up this fabled structure ( which we were crying about for years) if we are still going to base our recruitment based on individual managers' requirements?

The only reason we should be selling Garnacho is if we seem him not to be good enough. Which I think at 20 he has shown he is a decent enough prospect who could morph into something way better. If he doesn't, then we can still sell him in a couple of years.
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I think if that happens, there will be good wingers on the market that are attainable for us anyways.
 
King7Eric said:
I've seen this point repeated so many times here. Question for everyone saying this - What happens in case Amorim doesn't succeed and leaves in 2 years? And then next manager plays with wide forwards/wingers ( as majority of the managers in the world do)?

We then go around looking for a winger/wide forward and pay over the odds for them. Yes I agree Garnacho isn't going to a world beater but he is going to develop into a very good player. So why is the Caf, who bemoaned managers having too much say in recruitment for years, now again want to buy/sell players based on specific manager traits?

What was the point of setting up this fabled structure ( which we were crying about for years) if we are still going to base our recruitment based on individual managers' requirements?

The only reason we should be selling Garnacho is if we seem him not to be good enough. Which I think at 20 he has shown he is a decent enough prospect who could morph into something way better. If he doesn't, then we can still sell him in a couple of years.
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Yes if the manager fails, then the next manager brings in their ideal players who are suited to their system. This is what happens at every club across the world. That's like saying what's the point of Allowing a manager to sack former staff members to bring in their own only for the next manager to have to do the same.

I agree Garnacho can be developed into a good player but what is the point if he doesn't fit into the Manager's plans and is forced on him? It can also be more about ability, but also character, we know Amorim likes to assess not just ability but personal individual traits, and maybe just maybe Garnacho's character is not up to the standard requirements of Amorim, hence why both him and Rasford were dropped and now up for sell. The old committee would probably be throwing a 200k contract offer to garnacho to ward off these transfers rumours due to his marketability rather than football ability

The new board who also have vested interest in ensuring the benefits of the club is run professionally long term, and so maybe they are fully on board with the decision to sell considering Ratcliff was not amused when Garnacho brought that Ispeed clown to the fa cup after party and it's well known that his brother causing all sorts of drama on social media. He can be a good player or potentially a bad egg in the future, we don't know and they've probably weighed up the decision that gamble is not worth taking consideriing he is not going to turn out to be an elite talent, that much we do know.

The club is bigger than one individual player and I feel far too many people have grown far too attached to this idea that we must keep every academy player

In regards to structure, having a structure doesn't mean you disregard the Manager's requirements, the structure is to set out guidelines and objectives for the manager and to assist him the best possible way to help them carry out their role, whether it be transfers, training facilities and organising to help them bring in their own staff.
 
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Two thoughts on this one:
1. Only way we sell is if the club is genuinely in trouble if we don't generate a huge fee, now. If we're borderline we keep him imo. His potential is high, he's young and he's one of our most dangerous players.
2. It is clear that for a footballer, playing in Italy is just easier. Serie A is slower, less physical and players that couldn't cut it in the prem do well there. But if I was a 21 year-old looking to improve, it's not where I'd go.
 
He won’t be sold. He likely wants to leave though
 
golden_blunder said:
Perhaps it’s true that we genuinely need to sell someone if we want to bring anyone in. From that POV he’s one of few who’d generate a sum that we could work with.
He’s also a bit immature, for example tweeting that the emirates is a dump. We all think it but by tweeting it he opens himself up to trouble. There’s a lot to manage with him.

Bottom line I’d prefer to sell him over Mainoo IF we really have to sell someone
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that's another example that concerns me. Garnacho seem defiant by nature whether its about disciplinary issues, pissing off his adopting country by claiming that Ronaldo is better then Messi right to refusing to celebrate goals because the fans pissed him off. Is it worth investing so much on him? Will he be defiant in let's say, refusing to sign a new contract (or taking us to the cleaners in doing so?) ? These are the sort of things the club should evaluate before they make him the face of Manchester United
 
BenitoSTARR said:
It’s not the only reason. The player may see more opportunities at Napoli.

We may also be able to improve 2 starting positions for the cost of one promising player who isn’t currently a good fit.
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If he wants to leave that's a separate discussion. But I haven't heard from anyone saying Garnacho is pushing for a move.

Yes he isn't currently a good fit, but doesn't mean he can't be developed into one. He's just 20, not 30 who can't learn a new position.
Rojofiam said:
I think if that happens, there will be good wingers on the market that are attainable for us anyways.
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Given how the wingers we've bought recently have been the likes of Sancho and Antony, I wouldn't necessarily trust us to be able to find players who can better Garnacho's (frankly modest) output.
The Serpent said:
Yes if the manager fails, then the next manager brings in their ideal players who are suited to their system. This is what happens at every club across the world. That's like saying what's the point of Allowing a manager to sack former staff members to bring in their own only for the next manager to have to do the same.

I agree Garnacho can be developed into a good player but what is the point if he doesn't fit into the Manager's plans and is forced on him? It can also be more about ability, but also character, we know Amorim likes to assess not just ability but personal individual traits, and maybe just maybe Garnacho's character is not up to the standard requirements of Amorim, hence why both him and Rasford were dropped and now up for sell.

The new board who also have vested interest in ensuring the benefits of the club is run professionally long term, and so maybe they are fully on board with the decision to sell considering Ratcliff was not amused when Garnacho brought that Ispeed clown to the fa cup after party and it's well known that his brother causing all sorts of drama on social media. He can be a good player or potentially a bad egg in the future, we don't know and they've probably weighed up the decision that gamble is not worth taking consideriing he is not going to turn out to be an elite talent, that much we do know.

The club is bigger than one individual player and I feel far too many people have grown far too attached to this idea that we must keep every academy player

In regards to structure, having a structure doesn't mean you disregard the Manager's requirements, the structure is to set out guidelines and objectives for the manager and to assist him the best possible way to help them carry out their role, whether it be transfers, training facilities and organising to help them bring in their own staff.
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No it doesn't and that's one of the reasons why we are in this PSR mess. Also, players are kind of more expensive than staff members, so not really the same ballpark.

The whole point of moving from a manager to a Head Coach is to ensure that the coach is responsible for getting the best out of players that are recruited by the Technical Director or Sporting Director. Garnacho is just 20 and of course will be inconsistent. People want to develop young players but don't want to put up with the pain that comes along with it. You don't become a better player sitting on the bench, you do it by making mistakes on the pitch. It's frankly insane the number of people who want to get rid of a talented youngster because they think we'll be able to purchase better players. If it was so easy why haven't we been able to do that the past decade? And I don't say this just because he's from the academy, I'll say the same for Hojlund too.
 
Andy_Cole said:
Ratcliffe doing all the things Glazers wouldn’t think of doing.

Add selling our prized assets to the list.
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We've been doing that since the beginning of time whether its Ince, Beckham, RVN, Ronaldo etc. Actually one of our biggest mistake is not being ruthless enough on that.
 
King7Eric said:
Given how the wingers we've bought recently have been the likes of Sancho and Antony, I wouldn't necessarily trust us to be able to find players who can better Garnacho's (frankly modest) output.
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Those players were both bought before the INEOS era.

Also, the right mindset IMO regarding this would be to make sure we improve our recruitment, instead of not selling certain players even when that might be the right decision, because we're scared that we are too incompetent to replace them adequately.

I'm not trying to say selling Garnacho now is objectively the right decision, but if United keeps him solely because they're internally not confident in their own abilities to replace a player who's nowhere near being a world beater or irreplaceable, then that's a much bigger issue itself, than losing any player would be.

I would completely agree with your original point, though, if Garnacho was someone I'd view difficult to replace...but to me, he doesn't have a rare profile, or an exceptionally high ceiling either, like Mainoo or Yoro do, for example. Or even Hojlund.
 
hellhunter said:
Is there any source whatsoever indicating this?
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The Guardian reports his agent had dinner with Napoli's sporting director and broadly agreed terms in principle.

I don't think that'd be happening if he was settled.
 
jderbyshire said:
The Guardian reports his agent had dinner with Napoli's sporting director and broadly agreed terms in principle.

I don't think that'd be happening if he was settled.
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Fair point, but it could be interpreted as planning ahead if United pushes for a sale and not him pushing for it
 
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