[Amir]

He has done that multiple times now and haven't learned from it. I don't think he has the mental to make it as serious world class player, even if he has the ability to some extent, he doesn't have the mentality not patience.

I'm struggling to accept that.

He's a 20-year old who, up to this season - and maybe even into this season - was on an upwards trajectory. He's now trying to adapt to a different position, while being part of a team in which just about everyone - even much more experienced players - are struggling.

We haven't been a healthy place for young players in the last decade. So I'd be careful before deciding that the problem with a young player is him.

 

[bgoodall]

I'm struggling to accept that.

He's a 20-year old who, up to this season - and maybe even into this season - was on an upwards trajectory. He's now trying to adapt to a different position, while being part of a team in which just about everyone - even much more experienced players - are struggling.

We haven't been a healthy place for young players in the last decade. So I'd be careful before deciding that the problem with a young player is him.

This is spot on. This place love scapegoats but what happens when everyone is below par, young and old players, even the keeper? Who is to blame then? Many who play week in week out need upgrading more than Garnacho but he’s the target on here.

 

[Gazautd18]

Honestly feel like this is a bit harsh. I have no patience for a player showing dissent at being substituted because the manager thinks he's playing poorly, is tired, or just isn't his day. (I am an Arsenal fan, see Granit Xhaka). But I can understand the frustration of someone who was actually playing pretty well having to be the sacrificial lamb because someone else got sent off. I'd have let this one go.

Bread and soup so no biggie.

 

[Gandalf]

Honestly feel like this is a bit harsh. I have no patience for a player showing dissent at being substituted because the manager thinks he's playing poorly, is tired, or just isn't his day. (I am an Arsenal fan, see Granit Xhaka). But I can understand the frustration of someone who was actually playing pretty well having to be the sacrificial lamb because someone else got sent off. I'd have let this one go.

Well it is not clear from the quotes if Amorim imposed this punishment or if Garnacho volunteered to treat his mates. It is quite possible he realized that regardless of ill discipline it is not very team spirited to sulk when the team pull out a win in difficult circumstances and so he might have wanted to make a gesture for the sake of team unity. I think he can afford it so long as they place a cap on what Shaw can order.

 

[Red in STL]

Honestly feel like this is a bit harsh. I have no patience for a player showing dissent at being substituted because the manager thinks he's playing poorly, is tired, or just isn't his day. (I am an Arsenal fan, see Granit Xhaka). But I can understand the frustration of someone who was actually playing pretty well having to be the sacrificial lamb because someone else got sent off. I'd have let this one go.

I don't, he walked off to get changed because he was wet, couldn't wait a few mins to half time, on oy's own that's just about ok IMO, however he didn't sit on the bench with his team mates for the 2nd half, that is not ok

 

[The Cat]

Well it is not clear from the quotes if Amorim imposed this punishment or if Garnacho volunteered to treat his mates. It is quite possible he realized that regardless of ill discipline it is not very team spirited to sulk when the team pull out a win in difficult circumstances and so he might have wanted to make a gesture for the sake of team unity. I think he can afford it so long as they place a cap on what Shaw can order.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

tough call here, as he is obviously incredibly talented. However, he does seem to be on a trajectory to be a bigger detriment than positive. Feel like could be a similar situation to rashford where there isnt much improvement as a player, and the player thinks he is better than he actually is. His finishing has always been inconsistent, but feels like his overall play hasnt gotten that much better after a good amount of games. He still plays the pass way too late, if at all, and still just seems to get bullied a lot and isnt actually that strong a dribbler.

Could be another case of where we wished we sold at the right time when value was high, or if we sell could be wishing that we had kept the player. With how people are acting like we shouldve kept elanga as long as he has a pulse somewhere else im sure people will be complaining of him being sold regardless.

 

[Utterly De Ligt'd]

Ronaldo and Garnacho don't deserve the same levels of patience mate.

Were you watching Ronaldo weekly at that age? I didn't miss a game and he needed a lot of patience, a lot. I am older now, and I was one of the people then being overly critical of a 20 year old Ronaldo, and now I know how foolish that turned out to be.

This idea that a 20 year old kid is going to perform consistently and act professionally all the time is ridiculous. And in terms of maturity, a 20 year old now is probably about equivelant of a 16 year old then, so even more patience is required now.

 

[Utterly De Ligt'd]

What a load of bollocks. When Ronaldo was 125 games in for Utd he had easily proved his worth with the fans. Garnacho hasn’t. That’s the difference.

He was still raw, he was still inconsistent and he wasn't racking up goal involvements, he was putting in decent numbers for a promising kid. And Ronaldo played in a much better team, in a better run club, and a much easier league.

 

[pascell]

Why should he applaud when he comes off in the 43rd minute? I agree if it were the 78th....
Fans read too much into this and microanalyze everything. Most likely, he was pissed not at the sub only but that the club was in another difficult situation, struggling against Ipswich

Because those fans pay good money to go and watch him play, they work hard to pay for those tickets too. The least he could do is applaud back, hardly asking for much is it ffs

 

[Zumbi]

He was still raw, he was still inconsistent and he wasn't racking up goal involvements, he was putting in decent numbers for a promising kid. And Ronaldo played in a much better team, in a better run club, and a much easier league.

And yet he was still showing things that were streets ahead of Garnacho ability and skill wise.

Do you seriously, honestly believe that Garnacho is showing a similar level of talent as Ronaldo was at 20?

 

[Champ]

And a Manchester United team fighting for top four with a (relative) wealth of options in the attacking midfield area felt that Mount was good enough, they were a much stronger outfit than Chelsea at that time....
Ask yourself why that is....

Because he's a very good player and has shown it consistently at Chelsea maybe...what's your point?

 

[Champ]

An attacking threat who can’t seem to finish chances in one of the lowest scoring teams that is stuck near the bottom of the table. That’s not quite the accolade you seem to think it is. If he was a major attacking threat in a team that is itself an attacking threat, I might give him a little more slack. But he’s not. He’s a frustratingly inconsistent and low IQ player whose very obvious deficiencies contribute to why our attack is so dysfunctional and doesn’t operate as a cohesive unit. If we really have aspirations for getting back to the top of the table, we need much more intelligent and better quality players, and Garnacho is one of the only ones who can generate funds to help make that happen.

A young player not training hard absolutely shows an attitude issue. And it’s not the first time such things have been reported about him. So you can defend him all you like - this stuff hasn’t been made up. Of course the captain is going to defend him when asked, but taking such things at face value seems more than a little naive - he’s not going to through him under the bus, is he.

And I’m not just making things up to criticize him. Every single point I’ve made is a recurring critcism amongst countless fans who watch him play every week. That’s why there are so many posts in this thread from fans pointing out these very same criticisms, whilst concluding it might be time for him to move on. And ultimately the only reason for that is we remember the standards we used to have when it came to attackers, and we want to see a better team with better, more effective players. We just disagree on how to get there.

Garnacho is the best attacking player at the club, without him we lack any consistent threat or pace.
If you can't see that then I'm not really sure what else there is too say.

You obviously hate the guy, for whatever reason, but no need to make things up to try legitimise a straw man argument.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Yup, players they thought at the time would improve them....so better than what they had. They also brought Cole Palmer....etc etc.

Which is what they believe with Garnacho, he's better than what they have and so will improve them. A team currently better than United....

It's a stupid team to make an example of their transfer policy though. Any team that's willing to spank 1B+ over a few windows will hit on some of those players, using them as an example of "oh well Garnacho must be quality since Chelsea want him" doesn't make sense.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Garnacho is the best attacking player at the club, without him we lack any consistent threat or pace.
If you can't see that then I'm not really sure what else there is too say.

You obviously hate the guy, for whatever reason, but no need to make things up to try legitimise a straw man argument.

Amad is the best attacking player at the club. Not Garnacho

 

[jem]

Because he's a very good player and has shown it consistently at Chelsea maybe...what's your point?

And yet it was hard to find many people who thought that the Mount transfer was a good idea. I can’t speak for Chelsea fans, but I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them were relieved that their team didn’t splash out on Garnacho.

 

[Zumbi]

Garnacho is the best attacking player at the club, without him we lack any consistent threat or pace.
If you can't see that then I'm not really sure what else there is too say.

You obviously hate the guy, for whatever reason, but no need to make things up to try legitimise a straw man argument.

Amad says hello. Hard to take you seriously after that claim to be honest. Garnacho isn’t even a consistent starter whereas Amad is now not only pretty much the first name on the team sheet when available, but also our most productive and most incisive player in attack.

I don’t hate Garnacho. I just don’t rate him very highly. There are not many things he does really well, and there are lots of basic things he does quite poorly.

And again, I haven’t made anything up. Everything I’ve said has been backed up. Meanwhile you’ve tried denying he’s had attitude problems, whilst simultaneously admitting he’s been dropped from the squad for not training well. At least try making it make sense.

 

[jem]

Amad is the best attacking player at the club. Not Garnacho

You’re addressing someone who has a puzzling agenda against Amad.

 

[jem]

Amad says hello. Hard to take you seriously after that claim to be honest. Garnacho isn’t even a consistent starter whereas Amad is now not only pretty much the first name on the team sheet when available, but also our most productive and most incisive player in attack.

I don’t hate Garnacho. I just don’t rate him very highly. There are not many things he does really well, and there are lots of basic things he does quite poorly.

And again, I haven’t made anything up. Everything I’ve said has been backed up. Meanwhile you’ve tried denying he’s had attitude problems, whilst simultaneously admitting he’s been dropped from the squad for not training well. At least try making it make sense.

I’ll go a step further and say that Zirkzee has been almost on par with Garnacho since Amorim arrived.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

You’re addressing someone who has a puzzling agenda against Amad.

Makes sense.

 

[Greck]

Garnacho is the best attacking player at the club, without him we lack any consistent threat or pace.
If you can't see that then I'm not really sure what else there is too say.

You obviously hate the guy, for whatever reason, but no need to make things up to try legitimise a straw man argument.

And Onana is the best GK at the club. It means nothing at best and at worst means we need to do everything in our power to stop it being the case. The boy is no United level superstar but has the ego of one at 20. It's almost unheard of at the club and we've seen a lot of bizzare things since SAF retired. To be clear we shouldn't be looking to sell any youngster but if they show a hint of toxicity or even problematic contract demands we need to nip it in the bud. The financial buffer is no longer present to be taking chances on them types.

 

[Remember the geese]

Garnacho is the best attacking player at the club, without him we lack any consistent threat or pace.
If you can't see that then I'm not really sure what else there is too say.

You obviously hate the guy, for whatever reason, but no need to make things up to try legitimise a straw man argument.

Amad is. Obviously.

 

[bgoodall]

I’ll go a step further and say that Zirkzee has been almost on par with Garnacho since Amorim arrived.

Zirkzee is as good as Garnacho? Im sorry but no.

 

[jem]

Zirkzee is as good as Garnacho? Im sorry but no.

That’s not what I said: I said that since Amorim came in, Zirkzee has been almost on par with Garnacho. It’s not exactly high praise.

 

[Zumbi]

That’s not what I said: I said that since Amorim came in, Zirkzee has been almost on par with Garnacho. It’s not exactly high praise.

Some interesting stats since Amorim took over. Amad leads for direct goal involvements in the PL with nine goals and assists. Next up is Fernandes with eight. Next up is Rashford and Martinez with three each. Then Zirkzee has two, and Ugarte, Hojlund, De Ligt and Maguire all have one each.

Weirdly enough, our “best attacking player at the club” doesn’t have any. That’s weirdly impressive, but sadly not for the right reasons.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Amad is the best attacking player at the club. Not Garnacho

Amad says hello. Hard to take you seriously after that claim to be honest. Garnacho isn’t even a consistent starter whereas Amad is now not only pretty much the first name on the team sheet when available, but also our most productive and most incisive player in attack.

I don’t hate Garnacho. I just don’t rate him very highly. There are not many things he does really well, and there are lots of basic things he does quite poorly.

And again, I haven’t made anything up. Everything I’ve said has been backed up. Meanwhile you’ve tried denying he’s had attitude problems, whilst simultaneously admitting he’s been dropped from the squad for not training well. At least try making it make sense.

Amad is. Obviously.

Just for context, have a look at their posts in Amad's thread. It's nothing new and as pointed out by @jem, it's utterly bizarre.

https://www.redcafe.net/search/757363/?page=2&t=post&c[thread]=483495&c[users]=Champ&o=date

Here's what they had to say about Garnacho in Sept. It's genuinely astonishing with the love-in for one and the almost disdain for the other.

Garnacho is younger than Amad, yet streets ahead in terms of development, decision making and aptitude.

Amad has a huge amount of growing up to do which is strange considering he's 22 years old now.
Put it this way, Gravenberch is the same age yet his decision making and development is way in excess of Amads.

There's only so much leeway someone can get, he's now close to 90 appearances in senior football and whilst everyone develops at different ages, I don't think United can rely on Amad whilst he is currently still not making the right decisions during games.

 

[Pscholes18]

So he went to the dressing room to change is gear and red cafe goes crazy...

Did he come back out?

 

[Zumbi]

Just for context, have a look at their posts in Amad's thread. It's nothing new and as pointed out by @jem, it's utterly bizarre.

https://www.redcafe.net/search/757363/?page=2&t=post&c[thread]=483495&c[users]=Champ&o=date

Here's what they had to say about Garnacho in Sept. It's genuinely astonishing with the love-in for one and the almost disdain for the other.

Hahahaha, thanks, that’s an absolutely insane take. It’s like he’s living in a parallel universe where everything is backwards. Or maybe Champ is actually just Garnacho’s brother’s account.

 

[Blood Mage]

I think he knows he's our only player who carries any threat in attack with Amad out so his selfishness is being amplified, he thinks he can get away with it.

 

[erikcred]

I think he knows he's our only player who carries any threat in attack with Amad out so his selfishness is being amplified, he thinks he can get away with it.

If so, he's a bit of an idiot. If there's one constant about Amorim, it's that he has his principles and he'll stick to it.

 

[Denis' cuff]

10 man team were tiring. Late long/high balls were going to be coming in for the latter part. Garnacho was one of the least equipped to defend it.
Glad the boss doesn’t make every decision based on emotion.

 

[Remember the geese]

Just for context, have a look at their posts in Amad's thread. It's nothing new and as pointed out by @jem, it's utterly bizarre.

https://www.redcafe.net/search/757363/?page=2&t=post&c[thread]=483495&c[users]=Champ&o=date

Here's what they had to say about Garnacho in Sept. It's genuinely astonishing with the love-in for one and the almost disdain for the other.

It's been going on for years. I've pulled the poster up on it on multiple occasions.

 

[MadDogg]

I don't, he walked off to get changed because he was wet, couldn't wait a few mins to half time, on oy's own that's just about ok IMO, however he didn't sit on the bench with his team mates for the 2nd half, that is not ok

That is what my question was going to be, and if that's the case then I agree with you. Going down the tunnel straight away wasn't great, but it's not too big a deal as long as he came back out with the squad for the second half. If he continued sulking in the dressing room (or worse, left the stadium) for the second half though then that's a much bigger issue and he needs to wake up to himself.

 

[RealRedRunner]

Amad says hello. Hard to take you seriously after that claim to be honest. Garnacho isn’t even a consistent starter whereas Amad is now not only pretty much the first name on the team sheet when available, but also our most productive and most incisive player in attack.

I don’t hate Garnacho. I just don’t rate him very highly. There are not many things he does really well, and there are lots of basic things he does quite poorly.

And again, I haven’t made anything up. Everything I’ve said has been backed up. Meanwhile you’ve tried denying he’s had attitude problems, whilst simultaneously admitting he’s been dropped from the squad for not training well. At least try making it make sense.

For me he looks like he wants to go.
He's a sulker and plays selfishly at times. I'd say take the money and buy a proper inside forward...No10 or whatever they're called these days.... that works hard and is a team player. It's been great to see him develop but it's all stalled for more than one reason.

 

[jem]

Some interesting stats since Amorim took over. Amad leads for direct goal involvements in the PL with nine goals and assists. Next up is Fernandes with eight. Next up is Rashford and Martinez with three each. Then Zirkzee has two, and Ugarte, Hojlund, De Ligt and Maguire all have one each.

Weirdly enough, our “best attacking player at the club” doesn’t have any. That’s weirdly impressive, but sadly not for the right reasons.

And let’s be honest, outside of direct goal involvement, there’s not much else to Garnacho’s game, so in this case, the stats tell a pretty damning story.

 

[Kingdingaling]

Selling him this summer is a must for us, only thing is managing him from now until then so potential buyers don’t actually realise how dreadful he really is.

 

[Kelly15]

To me he is the type of player that in the past, was a squad player brought in from the academy for a few years then sold. Like cleverly, Evans, Richardson, welbeck, ect.
Our lack of quality is quite apparent all over the pitch. RvN, RvP, Rooney a few years, Ronaldo, Tevez. That is the quality I expect at Manchester United.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Seems to clear up a few things then.

Garnacho did throw a strop and didn't return to the bench for the second half. If the wet shirt thing was the sole reason, he'd have returned to the bench for the second half with the rest of the group.

Also, if it wasn't a strop, he wouldn't now be paying for a meal as, in effect, a fine - but done in a less formal way.

Good to see through they've been able to clear it up quickly and move on from it. It's not a big thing, though the collective acts of petulance and ill discipline are something we've definitely got to try to keep in check with responses like this.

But with us being so low on attacking options right now, I'm glad a bigger deal wasn't made of this one and that he should be in the squad for Sunday. And, hopefully, he'll be determined to make up for his small act of petulance by putting in a top performance.

 

[holdsteady]

Lets be honest with ourselves, the club and/or Amorim is forcing this lad out

 

[bosnian_red]

If I was him I'd say feck it and leave. He'll have a better chance at fulfilling his potential elsewhere and it definitely looks like the club is trying to push him into wanting to leave so we can cash in. It's shite because he's the type of player this club should look for in our attack (style, just need more experienced and consistent), and instead it's looking like we're building towards a different direction. Just don't like that for us.