A. Young | Guardian: Medical today

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I can see where Devilish is coming from, Valencia is a good player, but he's not one who takes us to the next level, a player who we are a lot worse without or we're a lot better with. His injury earlier this season wasn't a devastating blow my any means. Similarly, signing Ashley Young won't take us up to the next level, he's not a player who is going to make a difference against Barcelona, which over the last few days has become something of an obsession.

Saying that, he probably will improve the squad, but he's a fairly uninspiring signing, and his signing won't address any of the major deficiencies in the team already, it'll just give us more rotation options It's not a bad signing, it's just not one to get excited about, and I'd be very disappointed if this was our only business.
 
I'd say the time to judge this (potential) signing on the basis of being "our only business" will be if/when it turns out to be our only business.

As for the comparison with Valencia, if Young turns out as influential as Valencia has been in his debut season (and the closing months of this one) then he'll have been yet another very good signing by SAF.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'd say the time to judge this (potential) signing on the basis of being "our only business" will be if/when it turns out to be our only business.

As for the comparison with Valencia, if Young turns out as influential as Valencia has been in his debut season (and the closing months of this one) then he'll have been yet another very good signing by SAF.
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I dont think that will be the case..

I still think that we will sign a CM ...as long as Fergie thinks that he can continue to rely on Scholes and Giggs and sees Gibson and/or Anderson as their substitutes
 
Oh how sweet - what a rage because I gave an answer, which isn't politically correct. Does this datura guy ever post any stuff other than judging other user's posts? Baldwin Legend 2.0.


alastair said:
I think the point was perhaps that Young is close to his peak, whilst Smalling [...] clearly weren't when you signed them.
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This. I want us to sign Modric and I'm the first to say that smaller clubs like West Ham have some of the best youth academies in the country. But Young is close to his peak and whilst he's decent, he's nowhere near top-class. With so many players departing, we should look for first-team players not for decent squad extensions.

I like young and promising talents, no matter where they are from. I like top-class talent. However, I don't like overpriced and overrated decent midtable class - at least not when we would need that money for first team players. Whether or not this is labelled as stupid - I don't care, coming from this place it's almost a compliment anyway.
 
Like others have said, Young is a good player, but like Valencia he will get found out against the worlds best teams. Fact is Young hasn't even produced against the best in the premiership on a consistent basis. Now you could argue that's because Villa aren't good, or that the manager lacks the ability to get the best out of his players but while Young will undoubtedly bring some depth and versatility to our bench there is no way he will take the club to the next level.

Sadly there aren't too many players who we can buy that will take us to that next level (the one's who can, won't be sold, or are so expensive we won't buy them).
 
Lailiani said:
Oh how sweet - what a rage because I gave an answer, which isn't politically correct. Does this datura guy ever post any stuff other than judging other user's posts? Baldwin Legend 2.0.
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Yes, one of the best posters in the Youth forum.
 
Devilton said:
Like others have said, Young is a good player, but like Valencia he will get found out against the worlds best teams. Fact is Young hasn't even produced against the best in the premiership on a consistent basis. Now you could argue that's because Villa aren't good, or that the manager lacks the ability to get the best out of his players but while Young will undoubtedly bring some depth and versatility to our bench there is no way he will take the club to the next level.

Sadly there aren't too many players who we can buy that will take us to that next level (the one's who can, won't be sold, or are so expensive we won't buy them).
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Valencia was "found out?" What happened to the rest of our players?
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Valencia was "found out?" What happened to the rest of our players?
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Oh, they were too. But I talk about Valencia because he's a winger and both Young and Valencia have similar traits in their wingplay. Don't get me wrong...it's not a knock on Valencia. I'm just saying a direct sort of winger won't be very useful against a team like Barca who will constantly push him back to do defensive work (like he did in the finals).
 
Amir said:
I can't see that. We have a way, and changing what we want to do over one game and one team would be something I'd expect of a 38 year old manager, not Sir Alex.
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Losing against the same team in the same way twice within three years can't be easy even for SAF. And we were very lucky with the Premier League - Chelsea had their struggels, Arsenal bottled it and ManCity were ManCity. In the upcoming season, we might not be that lucky. More importantly, we have many departures that need some replacements.
 
Devilton said:
Like others have said, Young is a good player, but like Valencia he will get found out against the worlds best teams. Fact is Young hasn't even produced against the best in the premiership on a consistent basis. Now you could argue that's because Villa aren't good, or that the manager lacks the ability to get the best out of his players but while Young will undoubtedly bring some depth and versatility to our bench there is no way he will take the club to the next level.

Sadly there aren't too many players who we can buy that will take us to that next level (the one's who can, won't be sold, or are so expensive we won't buy them).
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So Chelsea, Milan, Bayern aren't the world's top teams?
 
Lailiani said:
Losing against the same team in the same way twice within three years can't be easy even for SAF. And we were very lucky with the Premier League - Chelsea had their struggels, Arsenal bottled it and ManCity were ManCity. In the upcoming season, we might not be that lucky. More importantly, we have many departures that need some replacements.
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Do you think we need to strengthen our first 11 wingers?
 
Lailiani said:
Losing against the same team in the same way twice within three years can't be easy even for SAF. And we were very lucky with the Premier League - Chelsea had their struggels, Arsenal bottled it and ManCity were ManCity. In the upcoming season, we might not be that lucky. More importantly, we have many departures that need some replacements.
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All is true, but I can't see how the Barcelona match changes anything. We needed to work and invest on our midfield before the match. We still do. We don't go for players on a whim and if we go for Young - and it's still an if at the moment - then we have a good reason to do it and that match won't change it.
 
Lailiani said:
Where did he say that? Of course there are some players we could buy but according to Gill and Fergie they don't represent any value in the market :p.
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He said Valencia will get found out against World's top teams. My comment was in response of that.
 
Christ this is absolutely laughable, Valencia all of a sudden can't do a it againest the worlds best teams based on one game? A game where I feel Pep targeted him by having men supporting Abidal everytime he got the ball.

I guess Chelsea are a shite team and A Cole is a average defender :rolleyes:
 
KM said:
So Chelsea, Milan, Bayern aren't the world's top teams?
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Would they beat Barca? Or Real for that matter?

Those are the two teams we will most likely face in the finals in the next few years. We can beat the likes of Chelsea, Milan or Bayern. But then, they could beat us as well.

I'm talking about players who will take the current team (the team that went to the finals of the champions league, won the premier league) to the next level.

Young to me is not that much better then Valencia...and we saw that Valencia wasn't really that effective against Barca. So while I don't hate the idea of Young coming to united, I'm not sure how useful he will be against the worlds best.
 
Ronaldo No.9 said:
Christ this is absolutely laughable, Valencia all of a sudden can't do a it againest the worlds best teams based on one game? A game where I feel Pep targeted him by having men supporting Abidal everytime he got the ball.

I guess Chelsea are a shite team and A Cole is a average defender :rolleyes:
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Look you don't seem to get it. Valencia is a very good traditional winger, and he's put in some terrific performances. But there are teams against whom he won't be allowed to use his strengths, and that's where his deficiencies will be exposed. The fact he's rather one footed, the fact he's not really that technical on the ball, or able to create something out of nothing (like Nani can on occasion).

People seem to think I'm knocking Valencia but I'm simply pointing out that we could play Barca 10 more times with that team and still end up losing on 9 occasions because the team we have just doesn't match up well with theirs.
 
Lailiani said:
Losing against the same team in the same way twice within three years can't be easy even for SAF. And we were very lucky with the Premier League - Chelsea had their struggels, Arsenal bottled it and ManCity were ManCity. In the upcoming season, we might not be that lucky. More importantly, we have many departures that need some replacements.
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Madrid spent 300 Million and are still a similar distance away from Barcelona as United. There are simply no players available on the market to compete with the trio of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.
 
Devilton said:
Would they beat Barca? Or Real for that matter?

Those are the two teams we will most likely face in the finals in the next few years. We can beat the likes of Chelsea, Milan or Bayern. But then, they could beat us as well.

I'm talking about players who will take the current team (the team that went to the finals of the champions league, won the premier league) to the next level.

Young to me is not that much better then Valencia...and we saw that Valencia wasn't really that effective against Barca. So while I don't hate the idea of Young coming to united, I'm not sure how useful he will be against the worlds best.
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Why not?

Real Madrid last season was defeated by a Lyon side, whereas Ruben Kazan defeated Barcelona at home last season. The likes of Chelsea, Milan, Inter are more than capable of beating Barcelona/Madrid.
 
Sultan said:
Madrid spent 300 Million and are still a similar distance away from Barcelona as United. There are simply no players available on the market to compete with the trio of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.
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Not true. They will be a much more stronger team next years. Mourinho's team usually play their best football in the second year and while his tactics against Barca were very negative I have a feeling he will get the results against them next year.

Of course they will spend shit loads this summer, but that's Madrid. They always spend shitloads to buy trophies. Especially now that everyone is talking about how great Barca is.
 
Devilton said:
Look you don't seem to get it. Valencia is a very good traditional winger, and he's put in some terrific performances. But there are teams against whom he won't be allowed to use his strengths, and that's where his deficiencies will be exposed. The fact he's rather one footed, the fact he's not really that technical on the ball, or able to create something out of nothing (like Nani can on occasion).

People seem to think I'm knocking Valencia but I'm simply pointing out that we could play Barca 10 more times with that team and still end up losing on 9 occasions because the team we have just doesn't match up well with theirs.
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We didn't match up with them with Ronaldo in the team. Seems somewhat unfair to highlight Valencia.
 
Valencia not playing well against Barcelona doesn't mean he can't play well against Barcelona. Not that that really needed pointing out.

Coming on here in the days between a defeat and the next match are bloody depressing, going to be a longggg summer.
 
Sultan said:
Madrid spent 300 Million and are still a similar distance away from Barcelona as United. There are simply no players available on the market to compete with the trio of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.
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Exactly.

How many players are there available who can take us to the next level i.e Defeating Barcelona?

Madrid has proved that despite buying the best player from Italian, English and French league still couldn't do anything about Barcelona's dominance.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
We didn't match up with them with Ronaldo in the team. Seems somewhat unfair to highlight Valencia.
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Well, Ronaldo never played as a winger in that last season. He was an out and out forward. Valencia is a winger, and Young if he does play for us will probably be as a winger. I make the comparison because Young is closest to Valencia on our team in terms of what he brings to the table.

Personally I think Valencia actually does better on the wing then Young ever has.
 
Sultan said:
Madrid spent 300 Million and are still a similar distance away from Barcelona as United. There are simply no players available on the market to compete with the trio of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.
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Madrid spunked a load of cash...and deployed spoiling tactics. What does that say about Mourinho? they bought some quality players and all.
 
Brwned said:
Valencia not playing well against Barcelona doesn't mean he can't play well against Barcelona. Not that that really needed pointing out.
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Yes. One average match against Barcelona and suddenly everyone have assumed that he won't do much better in the next match.
 
Devilton said:
Young to me is not that much better then Valencia...and we saw that Valencia wasn't really that effective against Barca. So while I don't hate the idea of Young coming to united, I'm not sure how useful he will be against the worlds best.
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But surely that's not the only consideration. Yes, we do have to look at the players who will make a difference against the big sides - and it has to be said just Young's crossing and set piece ability can do that - but there's a bigger picture. You play Barcelona maybe once or twice a year, same for Real, etc.

You also have to build a squad and options. Quick wingers are vital for the way we play and past Valencia and Nani, we don't really have such options. Not ones we can trust, anyway. I'm not looking at how useful he will be against the world's best. I'm looking at how useful he will be, period.
 
Even Pep admitted he would struggle to play the same system or style due to not having the personnel if he moved from Barcelona. We simply can't base our transfer policy obsessing with Barcelona.
 
Devilton said:
Well, Ronaldo never played as a winger in that last season. He was an out and out forward. Valencia is a winger, and Young if he does play for us will probably be as a winger. I make the comparison because Young is closest to Valencia on our team in terms of what he brings to the table.

Personally I think Valencia actually does better on the wing then Young ever has.
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Young is more close to Nani, then Valencia in all honesty. Just because he is signing from a midtable English club doesn't mean he is like Valencia.
 
Amir said:
But surely that's not the only consideration. Yes, we do have to look at the players who will make a difference against the big sides - and it has to be said just Young's crossing and set piece ability can do that - but there's a bigger picture. You play Barcelona maybe once or twice a year, same for Real, etc.

You also have to build a squad and options. Quick wingers are vital for the way we play and past Valencia and Nani, we don't really have such options. Not ones we can trust, anyway. I'm not looking at how useful he will be against the world's best. I'm looking at how useful he will be, period.
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Well that's never been in question. of course Young is a massive improvement on Bebe, Obertan and even Cleverly. There can be no doubt about that. Look, will United be a stronger squad with Young in the team? Absolutely.

Will we be good enough to win the champions league if we come up against the likes of Barca again? I'm not so sure...
 
Sultan said:
Even Pep admitted he would struggle to play the same system or style due to not having the personnel if he moved from Barcelona. We simply can't base our transfer policy obsessing with Barcelona.
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We want to be as good if not better. That's the benchmark, and Fergie knows it. How he does it, is another matter. I don't United embarrassed infront of half a billion people again. We're Man United not Aston Villa.
 
Devilton said:
Look you don't seem to get it. Valencia is a very good traditional winger, and he's put in some terrific performances. But there are teams against whom he won't be allowed to use his strengths, and that's where his deficiencies will be exposed. The fact he's rather one footed, the fact he's not really that technical on the ball, or able to create something out of nothing (like Nani can on occasion).

People seem to think I'm knocking Valencia but I'm simply pointing out that we could play Barca 10 more times with that team and still end up losing on 9 occasions because the team we have just doesn't match up well with theirs.
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The central midfield doesn't match up to theirs, Valencia had no chance to show what he could really do because we hardly had the ball.

He's already proven himself that he can get the better of the best defenders (A Cole) just because he was shut out ONCE againest Barca doesn't mean it would happen again.

Mesut Ozil has been poor in the games he played againest Barca this season, but you're not gonna get their fans demanding to get someone better in because there isn't.
 
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