A. Young | Guardian: Medical today

[Ekeke]

They wont lose him for nothing, thats the purpose of the bidding war they'll invite. They'll take the best offer which could still be a very significant amount regardless of his contract situation, though mainly because he's English and has a very good reputation in the premier league.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

They wont lose him for nothing, thats the purpose of the bidding war they'll invite. They'll take the best offer which could still be a very significant amount regardless of his contract situation, though mainly because he's English and has a very good reputation in the premier league.

I can't see it panning out that way. He has a year left. All the clubs that want him can all wait for him to be a free transfer, and bag him on a pre contract as early as next January. If Villa ask for too much they are more than likely guaranteed to get nothing. It's for that same reason they sold Barry as cheaply as 12m. Even though it is Man City that came calling.

 

[forevrared]

He's a very good player, no doubt, but no world beater yet atleast.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions in the transfer market is that every player you sign has to be 'world class', even though 'world class' is a very subjective term. Is world class reserved for only players like Ronaldo and Messi? Or does starring for a good team in the top league in the world mean you're 'world class'?

Building a quality squad is easily more important than signing a couple of superstars. I'm not directing this at you JayWalker, but why do you lot think we're top and City are chasing 4th? We have a brilliant squad with fantastic chemistry and a load of players who are more than happy to play their roles and don't expect to start every single game. They have a load of players lots of people would probably consider 'world class' who can't play together. Fergie understands this and it's why he continually disappoints the muppets by not overpaying for players who don't fit in with the squad

Ashley Young may not have the same skill level as an Alexis Sanchez, but close to one third the price, is he really going to offer one third less to the team? I think it's been well established that over the past 4 seasons or so, Young has averaged nearly 10 goals and 15 assists per season for Villa. Nani has almost identical numbers this season and we're crowing about him being Player of the Year. I know you can't compare them directly but regardless of what you think of his abilities, he just keeps producing goals and assists year after year. Park and Giggs are gradually moving more and more towards central roles in the squad (combined with Cleverley returning, why I won't be surprised if we don't sign a midfielder), so we have only Nani and Valencia as natural wingers ahead of the likes of Bebe and Obertan. Young would immediately upgrade our attacking options significantly as far as I'm concerned. With he and Welbeck capable of playing as wing forwards, we'd have a great (all English) forward lineup for a 4-3-3 if that were ever to suit the situation.

Regardless of the situation, I can't see Sanchez being 2-3x more effective for us than Young would be for 1/3-1/2 the price.

 

[Ekeke]

I can't see it panning out that way. He has a year left. All the clubs that want him can all wait for him to be a free transfer, and bag him on a pre contract as early as next January. If Villa ask for too much they are more than likely guaranteed to get nothing. It's for that same reason they sold Barry as cheaply as 12m. Even though it is Man City that came calling.

City have bought players like De Jong for significant money even though they could have got him for free in the next summer. If they want Young they'll pay more than the next best offer. If Chelsea or Liverpool decided that Young was the man for them, not the next best option, then they might well take on City's mentality and pay what it takes to get him regardless of contract.

For all we know one or two of these clubs could have been interested in him for a while and wouldnt be bidding for him just because of his contract situation. Perhaps they'd still be willing to buy him if he had 4 years left on his contract and would cost more. So they'd be willing to go the extra mile.

 

[JayWalker]

I think one of the biggest misconceptions in the transfer market is that every player you sign has to be 'world class', even though 'world class' is a very subjective term. Is world class reserved for only players like Ronaldo and Messi? Or does starring for a good team in the top league in the world mean you're 'world class'?

Building a quality squad is easily more important than signing a couple of superstars. I'm not directing this at you JayWalker, but why do you lot think we're top and City are chasing 4th? We have a brilliant squad with fantastic chemistry and a load of players who are more than happy to play their roles and don't expect to start every single game. They have a load of players lots of people would probably consider 'world class' who can't play together. Fergie understands this and it's why he continually disappoints the muppets by not overpaying for players who don't fit in with the squad

Ashley Young may not have the same skill level as an Alexis Sanchez, but close to one third the price, is he really going to offer one third less to the team? I think it's been well established that over the past 4 seasons or so, Young has averaged nearly 10 goals and 15 assists per season for Villa. Nani has almost identical numbers this season and we're crowing about him being Player of the Year. I know you can't compare them directly but regardless of what you think of his abilities, he just keeps producing goals and assists year after year. Park and Giggs are gradually moving more and more towards central roles in the squad (combined with Cleverley returning, why I won't be surprised if we don't sign a midfielder), so we have only Nani and Valencia as natural wingers ahead of the likes of Bebe and Obertan. Young would immediately upgrade our attacking options significantly as far as I'm concerned. With he and Welbeck capable of playing as wing forwards, we'd have a great (all English) forward lineup for a 4-3-3 if that were ever to suit the situation.

Regardless of the situation, I can't see Sanchez being 2-3x more effective for us than Young would be for 1/3-1/2 the price.

Err, I'm actually in favour of us signing Young because I see him being quite a good acquisition. I know you said its not directed at me but you should read my posts earlier in the thread because I still do think its kind of directed at me among others. If not, forgive me.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

City have bought players like De Jong for significant money even though they could have got him for free in the next summer.

That is because they needed De Jong badly whilst others hovered around. As I said earlier look how cheaply they got Barry for, the Aston Villa captain and an England starter. When teams bidding for a play don't need him that bad, its hard to get a bidding war going when you could lose him for nothing if you price him out of a move.

If they want Young they'll pay more than the next best offer. If Chelsea or Liverpool decided that Young was the man for them, not the next best option, then they might well take on City's mentality and pay what it takes to get him regardless of contract.

No way. None of the sides that want Young need him that badly. I'm willing to bet they would all not mind a wait of a year for him.

For all we know one or two of these clubs could have been interested in him for a while and wouldnt be bidding for him just because of his contract situation. Perhaps they'd still be willing to buy him if he had 4 years left on his contract and would cost more. So they'd be willing to go the extra mile.

I'm not convinced. Buying clubs are not stupid. They always sense when there is a advantage for them. This case will be no different. Young will not reach anything beyond 15m. If his fee even reaches that high.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

The price for Young will be set by the number of clubs he would prefer a move to. If he sets his heart on any one club and refuses to move to any other, citing a desire to see out his contract and then move there. Then Villa are stuffed.

 

[MrMarcello]

Wasn't Barry down to a year or two remaining on his contract?

Also, it's Gareth Barry.

 

[KingMinger22]

It won't be as cheap as some are suggesting.

There will be a fair few clubs interested, which will push the price up, even if he is set on just one club.

£15m and he'd be worth eveery penny

 

[Mainoldo]

It won't be as cheap as some are suggesting.

There will be a fair few clubs interested, which will push the price up, even if he is set on just one club.

£15m and he'd be worth eveery penny

How can they push the price up when he goes on a free the season after? Liverpool and Spurs aren't going to overspend just to beat us.

 

[Aporkalypse]

How can they push the price up when he goes on a free the season after? Liverpool and Spurs aren't going to overspend just to beat us.

City might though, the stupid cnuts.

 

[andersj]

Young is as good as Park and Valencia. He doesn't need to be better than they to be a good addition.

Maybe. But I'm not sure he would add anything. "Marginal rate of substitution". I would prefer a player like Hazard, Douglas Costa (I know they are not the same type of players, but they both represent something different from what we have).

 

[Ekeke]

How can they push the price up when he goes on a free the season after? Liverpool and Spurs aren't going to overspend just to beat us.

They will very likely overspend to get an English player who looks to have a big influence on the English national side for the next few years. And especially in Liverpool's case, he could improve them so much that even a big fee would be worth it

 

[WireRed]

The lad ain't good enough, certainly by United standards. I'd take Valencia and Nani over him anyday of the week, and he doesn't offer the variety and tactical flexability Park and Giggs give us aswell as the cover they provide for the first two.

He'd be a good buy for Liverpool, they are crying out for width and a bit of pace in their team and they don't seem to mind spending way over the odds for decent, English, but ultimately not top drawer talent.

 

[Ekeke]

The lad ain't good enough, certainly by United standards. I'd take Valencia and Nani over him anyday of the week, and he doesn't offer the variety and tactical flexability Park and Giggs give us aswell as the cover they provide for the first two

Actually he plays all the positions Park does. Not as intelligently, but he does provide tactical options

 

[WireRed]

Actually he plays all the positions Park does. Not as intelligently, but he does provide tactical options

True, but he offers nowhere near the tactical discipline, work ethic, or game awareness that Park does. He's more attacking but not good enough in that sense to outstrip anything we've already got on the flanks/behind the striker, nor is he as astute or able to carry out instructions as Park can.

Good player but would be an unnecessary purchase for us IMO, especially at the prices quoted.

 

[Ekeke]

True, but he offers nowhere near the tactical discipline, work ethic, or game awareness that Park does. He's more attacking but not good enough in that sense to outstrip anything we've already got on the flanks/behind the striker, nor is he as astute or able to carry out instructions as Park can.

Good player but would be an unnecessary purchase for us IMO, especially at the prices quoted.

Yeah I agree. Good player and would add versatility to any side that signed him but we're probably the side in the premier league who needs him least given our options.

 

[Snow]

The lad ain't good enough, certainly by United standards. I'd take Valencia and Nani over him anyday of the week, and he doesn't offer the variety and tactical flexability Park and Giggs give us aswell as the cover they provide for the first two.

He'd be a good buy for Liverpool, they are crying out for width and a bit of pace in their team and they don't seem to mind spending way over the odds for decent, English, but ultimately not top drawer talent.

A guy who provides width and good crosses consistently is exactly what Liverpool needs. He'd probably be the best buy Liverpool could make IMO

 

[Joga_Bonito]

I think one of the biggest misconceptions in the transfer market is that every player you sign has to be 'world class', even though 'world class' is a very subjective term. Is world class reserved for only players like Ronaldo and Messi? Or does starring for a good team in the top league in the world mean you're 'world class'?

Building a quality squad is easily more important than signing a couple of superstars. I'm not directing this at you JayWalker, but why do you lot think we're top and City are chasing 4th? We have a brilliant squad with fantastic chemistry and a load of players who are more than happy to play their roles and don't expect to start every single game. They have a load of players lots of people would probably consider 'world class' who can't play together. Fergie understands this and it's why he continually disappoints the muppets by not overpaying for players who don't fit in with the squad

Ashley Young may not have the same skill level as an Alexis Sanchez, but close to one third the price, is he really going to offer one third less to the team? I think it's been well established that over the past 4 seasons or so, Young has averaged nearly 10 goals and 15 assists per season for Villa. Nani has almost identical numbers this season and we're crowing about him being Player of the Year. I know you can't compare them directly but regardless of what you think of his abilities, he just keeps producing goals and assists year after year. Park and Giggs are gradually moving more and more towards central roles in the squad (combined with Cleverley returning, why I won't be surprised if we don't sign a midfielder), so we have only Nani and Valencia as natural wingers ahead of the likes of Bebe and Obertan. Young would immediately upgrade our attacking options significantly as far as I'm concerned. With he and Welbeck capable of playing as wing forwards, we'd have a great (all English) forward lineup for a 4-3-3 if that were ever to suit the situation.

Regardless of the situation, I can't see Sanchez being 2-3x more effective for us than Young would be for 1/3-1/2 the price.

This is all perfectly true, but however you want to define players that are generally considered as among the best in their positions in world football, it is rare for a truly great team -- both in terms of the success that they achieve and their philosophy on the pitch, which is as historically important to Manchester United as any other team -- to lack one or two players of that type in each area of the team at least. That's not to say that it's impossible to create a great team that lacks those players, but it is certainly more rare than the alternative.

We currently have a number of those players in defence and attack, but the general consensus is that we lack them right across the midfield (perhaps with the exception of Nani). I think that's important and that it goes along way to explaining the difference between the current side and that of 06-09, particularly in terms of the consistency of performance. And I see absolutely no reason why Manchester United should not aim to reach that kind consistency as often as is possible given our history, status, and resources.

Whether we like it or not, and whether it suits our current 'philosophy', we are in an arms race with the biggest clubs in europe for the best talent. Assuming that our academy is insufficient to entirely supply those needs, we can choose to buy those players when they are 16/17 years old and attempt to integrate them from there, or we can buy them in their early twenties when that potential is more obvious and at a slightly reduced fee, or we can attempt to buy them at their peak when they are at their maximum value.

But however we choose to do it, the evidence quite clearly suggests that, on average, the teams that perform most consistently in the major competitions, and the teams that are widely recognized as being the best at any particular point in time, generally have a number of players in key positions that are rightly thought of as being among the best few players in those positions or in any.

Nothing that I have just said explicitly argues against the rationale for also purchasing players like Ashley Young, of course, and as you have rightly suggested, it is of even greater importance to have a broad, multi-talented, flexible, and experienced squad. But the things that we are discussing are not mutually exclusive, and I would argue that both are extremely important to the chances of creating a team that is consistently successful in all competitions, and also one that lives up to the traditions of a club like Manchester United.

This whole argument effectively hinges on whether you believe that there is an imbalance between the two -- a fantastic squad and the required number of special players in key positions -- within the current squad, that the team could be improved with the purchase of one or two highly talented players in those key positions, and also whether you accept that the current team, while significantly better than most in europe, already, is not quite at the level of either the United team of 06-09, for example, or the Real Madrid and Barcelona teams of the current day. And if you will allow me to speculate just a little, it is also arguable that Man City and Chelsea, both of which have the intention and ability to transform themselves in a short space of time with their unprecendented spending power, could also join that list over the next few years.

If you do broadly accept these things, and if you believe that Manchester United should aim to compete with the very best in europe, both in terms of success on the pitch and how that success is achieved, then that improvement obviously has to come from somewhere. While this season could well end as one of the most successful in our history, the performances over the last two seasons will probably not be remembered in the same way. In my opinion, Ashley Young would certainly enhance our chances of repeating the potential successes of this season, but I am far less confident that he would have the same influence on the way in which it will have been achieved.

 

[Carl]

A guy who provides width and good crosses consistently is exactly what Liverpool needs. He'd probably be the best buy Liverpool could make IMO

Indeed. Let's hope they don't realise this though.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Young is so much better than many on here realise. With the potential to even step up further under a manager like SAF.

 

[Mozza]

The lad ain't good enough, certainly by United standards. I'd take Valencia and Nani over him anyday of the week, and he doesn't offer the variety and tactical flexability Park and Giggs give us aswell as the cover they provide for the first two.

He'd be a good buy for Liverpool, they are crying out for width and a bit of pace in their team and they don't seem to mind spending way over the odds for decent, English, but ultimately not top drawer talent.

Disagree completly, he's pretty consistent, 9 goal and 15 odd assists a season at a no more then decent Villa side. Those are pretty similar to what Nani has managed this season, he is good enough.

Still I'd prefer a lefty, N'Zogbia is my pick

 

[Number7]

Heard a rumour from a guy who was apparently correct about Rooney Ronaldo and Tevez wanting out before it became public that we're after Michel Bastos. I don't normally believe this type of shite, but I'm posting it for e-credit incase it's right.

 

[711]

Heard a rumour from a guy who was apparently correct about Rooney Ronaldo and Tevez wanting out before it became public that we're after Michel Bastos. I don't normally believe this type of shite, but I'm posting it for e-credit incase it's right.

Everyone in the world knew Ronaldo wanted to go to Real. Tevez was about his owners wanting more money. Rooney was about Rooney wanting more money and he didn't go anyway. Your friend's exclusives so far lack a bit mate.

 

[Sultan]

Heard a rumour from a guy who was apparently correct about Rooney Ronaldo and Tevez wanting out before it became public that we're after Michel Bastos. I don't normally believe this type of shite, but I'm posting it for e-credit incase it's right.

Left footed, and plays in a number of positions. However, he'll be 28 in a few months.

 

[Brwned]

And plays for Lyon so won't be cheap...swerve that. The idea of Costa coming to us seems pretty plausible but I think that's largely because his name's been mentioned by so many different people on here.

 

[Devil may care]

Speaking of us being linked with wingers, what happened to the story about Iturbe after he's spent a year at Porto?

 

[jeston]

He's still at Cerro Porteño, doesn't move to Porto until June. The story about us having an agreement with Porto etc. was just paper talk really.

 

[TheGame]

Disagree completly, he's pretty consistent, 9 goal and 15 odd assists a season at a no more then decent Villa side. Those are pretty similar to what Nani has managed this season, he is good enough.

Still I'd prefer a lefty, N'Zogbia is my pick

N'Zogbia does not have the quality that we're looking for in my opinion. Still very unproven at the top level.

 

[Mozza]

Young set up Villas winner today, reading up on the Wigan game N'Zogbia had a stormer apparently, have a watch of the highlights

 

[Devil may care]

He's still at Cerro Porteño, doesn't move to Porto until June. The story about us having an agreement with Porto etc. was just paper talk really.

Ah I see, shame as he looked very promising.

 

[RDCR07]

Speaking of us being linked with wingers, what happened to the story about Iturbe after he's spent a year at Porto?

I thought he has to spend a year or two in Porto and then we might make a move.

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

Young is so much better than many on here realise. With the potential to even step up further under a manager like SAF.

I don't understand why he's so underrated by everyone on here, I'd sign him for his dead ball deliveries alone which is one area which we could really improve on. Having a dead ball specialist can make such a difference over the course of a season.

 

[wr8_utd]

Having him take our corners would be magical. The number of corners we waste every game is criminal.

 

[KingMinger22]

He'd be a really good signing.

My only reservation would be that it would mean we're not in for Bale, which would be gutting as I think he is made to be a United superstar. I am 100% convinced.

 

[VoetbalWizard]

rather young for 12 million than bale for 4 times the price.

 

[RedLars]

Young is so much better than many on here realise. With the potential to even step up further under a manager like SAF.

Agree. Think he's got every bit as much potential as Tony V did before we picked him up, and that's turned out alright.

 

[Redrage]

Would be a very good signing if we get him in 15-20 mil region, anything more than that will be a no-go.

 

[M'n'M]

A guy who provides width and good crosses consistently is exactly what Liverpool needs. He'd probably be the best buy Liverpool could make IMO

I agree. Would be very happy to see him here next year.

Indeed. Let's hope they don't realise this though.

Too late for that. We were actively trying to sign him in the last few days of teh January window so I dont' think anything will have changed much since then. In fact the Guardian are running a story today that we're about to clinch the deal. I don't necessarily believe that but I'm happy to hope.

Would be a very good signing if we get him in 15-20 mil region, anything more than that will be a no-go.

It's not my money but I think anything over £15m is steep for him with only a year left.

 

[Devil may care]

Jose Mourinho joins battle with Manchester United and Liverpool for Aston Villa winger Ashley Young | Mail Online