A. Young | Guardian: Medical today

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Just something that should be added - He'll go into the 'home grown category'. Neville's gone, Scholes and Giggs haven't got long to go and who knows about Brown. I haven't calculated our situation there looking a year or two a ahead, but it's possible we need to make sure we have enough quality under that quota so we're happy to get a one of the best english talents around, even if we can get a better foreign one for the same role.
 
Decent player but I couldn't see him startng with any regularity for us. He has a decent set piece, is two-footed and can both score and create goals, so he's a threat. I guess in today's market 11m is a good price for such a productive forward player. But, personally, I can't see us sining him.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Decent player but I couldn't see him startng with any regularity for us. He has a decent set piece, is two-footed and can both score and create goals, so he's a threat. I guess in today's market 11m is a good price for such a productive forward player. But, personally, I can't see us sining him.
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I think the deal is already done. Was talked about in January and the is speculation that he has already told the dressing room where he is heading. However i can see his signing ruling out any 'attacking midfielder' we might have planned on buying.
 
Joga_Bonito said:
As I've said elsewhere, I would be slightly underwhelmed, personally, not because he isn't a very good player, but because he isn't obviously better than what we already have at the club, and I don't see him improving to the extent that he ever will be, even with the inevitable improvement that comes with playing with better players and in a better team. If there was a real need, as there was when we signed Valencia, for example, then I would be much more positive, particularly if very few alternatives were available at the time.

As an alternative to both Nani and Valencia, he is obviously a very good player indeed, but if he isn't ever going to improve to the extent that he eventually replaces either of them, as could happen if we bought a young player with that kind of potential, it leaves the impression that the club is somewhat 'standing still', rather than looking for players of the absolute highest quality for the future.

Young is of a similar quality to Valencia, in my opinion -- i.e. never likely to become one of the best players in the world in his position -- but he would at least offer certain qualities that are lacking in the games of both Nani and Valencia, and he is probably more comfortable on the left hand side than either of them, despite being similarly right footed. As a player, then, he would certainly improve our squad, which is a plus point in itself, and he may prove an intelligent signing for a relatively small transfer fee, particularly if money is to be spent elsewhere on the team.

If that were to happen, then the signing of Young would make a lot more sense, but I would still rather that we looked for players with the potential to improve on what we already have at the club, unless there is an obvious and/or urgent need.
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Very well put, such a disappointing signing, a £12M bench warmer I guess, but with very little potential to evolve beyond being merely solid.
 
Mainoldo said:
I think the deal is already done. Was talked about in January and the is speculation that he has already told the dressing room where he is heading. However i can see his signing ruling out any 'attacking midfielder' we might have planned on buying.
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If you're talking attacking midfielder in the Sneijder/Ozil/Kaka mould, then probably. But I find it doubtful we'll sign someone like that who will probably need to play ahead of two other central midfielders, since we tend to play 442 in at least half, if not two thirds, of the games.

What we do need is someone who can play in a 442 who will bring more creativity and attacking thrust, and I don't think Young would effect that.
 
Honestly cant see why we'd sign him unless Park or Giggs are no longer here next season. We know Giggs will be.

He'd be good cover for Nani and Valencia no doubt about it, but there's just no space for him right now imo.
 
He's proven in this league to be a good standard as a player, suffice to say, £11,000,000 seems quite low, for a young English player alongside the inevitable United tax.

For £11 million, I'd say it's a very quality squad addition, but you have to wonder - couldn't we lump that 11 million on top of whatever figure we have in mind and really go for someone who would improve our squad no end?
 
Amir said:
Considering how important wing play is to us, I think making sure we have another pacey option on the wing is very important. Giggs can't play every game, Park, even when on form, is more of a tactical decision rather than a pure winger. Our attack will benefit greatly if we can always offer a double outlet, which we couldn't this season. It doesn't have to be a player better than Nani or Valencia, and sometimes you can't look for a great young talent project. We took on the Obertan Operation nearly two years ago and that hasn't provided us with anything yet.

Young for 12m, getting us well covered on the wings, hopefully keeping the bigger money for bigger things. Yeah, I'm fine that with.
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Valencia's injury was obviously unfortunate, but it's impossible to prepare for every eventuality. In all likelyhood, both Valencia and Nani will be available for the majority of next season, which would mean that two of Nani, Valencia, Park, and Young, will not be in the first eleven at the start of each game.

Those are obviously great options to have, but none of them, in my opinion, perhaps apart from Nani -- although it is yet to be shown consistently over a period of 2-3 years -- could be described as amoung the best few players in the world in that position, and while we would certainly gain something with Young in the team ahead of Valencia, for example, I would argue that we would lose equally as much. That would suggest that the first eleven hasn't, therefore, been improved, but that other qualities have been introduced instead.

If, as you say, wing play is very important to the club, would that not also suggest that we should in fact be looking for the very best players in that position? Judging players is not an exact science, of course, and it's possible to create a great team with mostly very good rather than great players. But it's fairly rare, in my experience, and it usually results in a pragmatic rather than spectacularly talented team, particularly when competing with the best in Europe.

The evidence of the last few years suggests that the team has declined somewhat in comparison to the three years prior to that. It's obviously possible to make that up in other areas of the team, although that is yet to be seen, but with the probable departure of three more important players in Giggs, Scholes, and van der Sar over the next year or two, that will mean that we have lost up to five players who were very important and/or genuinely talented, all in the space of 2-3 years (including Tevez and Ronaldo).

That doesn't happen without a noticeable effect on the team, and if they aren't replaced with similar quality, or at the very least, players with the potential to reach that level, we should be unsurprised if the team doesn't quite reach those heights again over the next few years, just as it hasn't in the last two.

As I've already said, if Young is the best that we can hope for given the various circumstances, then that is a different matter, altogether. And he would of course improve the current squad and no doubt be looked upon as a very good signing. But that's not the same as saying that he will help to elevate us to the same level or even above the clubs that either already have extraordinarily talented teams, such as Barcelona and Real Madrid, or those who can certainly afford to sign players to compete with those two clubs.

In the end, whether a signing turns out to be a good one or not doesn't just depend on the individual player alone, it can also depend on the need for such a player, and the quality of players around them. If we wish to compete with the very best teams and squads in the world, then in all lilkelyhood we will need some of the very best players. Ashley Young is not one of those players, in my opinion.
 
Mainoldo said:
I think the deal is already done. Was talked about in January and the is speculation that he has already told the dressing room where he is heading. However i can see his signing ruling out any 'attacking midfielder' we might have planned on buying.
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That's be a shame, in my eyes, as creativity in midfield is the most obvious abscence from our squad, IMO. Having thought about this possible signing for a while, Young's ability to play on either wing or behind the striker would definately be a valuable addition to the squad, but it would also probably limit potential midfield signings over the summer. A creative midfielder who is capable of playing centrally either in a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-3 should be the priority.
 
Joga_Bonito said:
Valencia's injury was obviously unfortunate, but it's impossible to prepare for every eventuality. In all likelyhood, both Valencia and Nani will be available for the majority of next season, which would mean that two of Nani, Valencia, Park, and Young, will not be in the first eleven at the start of each game.

Those are obviously great options to have, but none of them, in my opinion, perhaps apart from Nani -- although it is yet to be shown consistently over a period of 2-3 years -- could be described as amoung the best few players in the world in that position, and while we would certainly gain something with Young in the team ahead of Valencia, for example, I would argue that we would lose equally as much. That would suggest that the first eleven hasn't, therefore, been improved, but that other qualities have been introduced instead.

If, as you say, wing play is very important to the club, would that not also suggest that we should in fact be looking for the very best players in that position? Judging players is not an exact science, of course, and it's possible to create a great team with mostly very good rather than great players. But it's fairly rare, in my experience, and it usually results in a pragmatic rather than spectacularly talented team, particularly when competing with the best in Europe.

The evidence of the last few years suggests that the team has declined somewhat in comparison to the three years prior to that. It's obviously possible to make that up in other areas of the team, although that is yet to be seen, but with the probable departure of three more important players in Giggs, Scholes, and van der Sar over the next year or two, that will mean that we have lost up to five players who were very important and/or genuinely talented, all in the space of 2-3 years (including Tevez and Ronaldo).

That doesn't happen without a noticeable effect on the team, and if they aren't replaced with similar quality, or at the very least, players with the potential to reach that level, we should be unsurprised if the team doesn't quite reach those heights again over the next few years, just as it hasn't in the last two.

As I've already said, if Young is the best that we can hope for given the various circumstances, then that is a different matter, altogether. And he would of course improve the current squad and no doubt be looked upon as a very good signing. But that's not the same as saying that he will help to elevate us to the same level or even above the clubs that either already have extraordinarily talented teams, such as Barcelona and Real Madrid, or those who can certainly afford to sign players to compete with those two clubs.

In the end, whether a signing turns out to be a good one or not doesn't just depend on the individual player alone, it can also depend on the need for such a player, and the quality of players around them. If we wish to compete with the very best teams and squads in the world, then in all lilkelyhood we will need some of the very best players. Ashley Young is not one of those players, in my opinion.
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As usual a fantastic post, but I'd be really interested on your views which wingers are better than Nani over the course of this season?! Ronaldo (who's more of a centre forward these days) and Messi aside, I'd say noone. And I watch a fecking lot of football from every league. Nani has been nothing short of spectacular over the last 18 months (as you basically said as well), can't think of a better winger across Europe over that period.

By signing Young our wing choices for the next couple of seasons would be Nani, Valencia, Young and Park. Add Cleverley who could play a squad role like e.g. Gibson this season while Giggs moves to a more central role in his (probably) last season. Four proven wingers are required for a total of around 50-60 games IMHO, and Young could cover a number of positions adequately.

Out of curiosity, who would you like to sign if you had the chance, instead of Young to provide quality on both wings?
 
Joga_Bonito, I think people are underestimating him. He's no Cristiano Ronaldo, but he's a very good player. And I think much like Dwight Yorke, he'll further improve with the players we have.

I've no idea what Fergie's plans are. Heck, I've no idea if we're even interesting in signing Young at all, and after people were so certain last summer we were going for Joe Cole - we weren't - I'm taking everything with a pinch of salt. But I can see why we'd be interested. Winger, can play several roles, very good player, English, good age, good price. He's provide good amo for our strikers, he can score goals, he can take a free kick. Is he as special as Nani? No, neither is Valencia, but it's not just about getting the best players for every position but getting the balance right.

The more I think about it, the more I like it. Even if his name is not Alexis Sanchez or Eden Hazard. He can solve several problems for us, and hopefully leave us with the cash we need for other areas.
 
He's a bit different to and not much worse than Valencia. He's a good player. We just dont need him unless someone is off
 
MadDogg said:
If you're talking attacking midfielder in the Sneijder/Ozil/Kaka mould, then probably. But I find it doubtful we'll sign someone like that who will probably need to play ahead of two other central midfielders, since we tend to play 442 in at least half, if not two thirds, of the games.

What we do need is someone who can play in a 442 who will bring more creativity and attacking thrust, and I don't think Young would effect that.
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We do need a creative midfielder however for the way we plan a midfielder that can set the tempo is more what we need. Players like Berbatov, Rooney, Nani even Young will always offer creativity but at time we are too stagnated in the middle of the park especially without Scholes. If we purchase a player like for instance Ekeke's love child Banega I think we can get away with not signing a straight out attacking midfielder.
 
Twelve million for him, 15-20 million for De Gea/any decent goalkeeper, that doesn't leave much money for anyone else does it.

Well, Fergie DID say two or three players. Probably no central midfielder coming apart from Cleverly. Please sign that contract Scholes and keep fit.
 
Kevin said:
Twelve million for him, 15-20 million for De Gea/any decent goalkeeper, that doesn't leave much money for anyone else does it.

Well, Fergie DID say two or three players. Probably no central midfielder coming apart from Cleverly. Please sign that contract Scholes and keep fit.
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What makes you think you how much we have to spend? Furthermore why the feck would someone(you) who thinks United are fairly financially crippled expect United to spend 20 million on a keeper when we have never gone anywhere close to that for a keeper. The logic defies me.
 
Alex said:
What makes you think you how much we have to spend? Furthermore why the feck would someone(you) who thinks United are fairly financially crippled expect United to spend 20 million on a keeper when we have never gone anywhere close to that for a keeper. The logic defies me.
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Chill out Betty.

De Gea has been heavily rumored with us for that amount. And anyone decent on the market as it is will go for a minimum of 15 million. Not very farstretched is it?

And I'd expect us to want someone good in that position, so 15-20 million it is.

And I've not said I think United are fairly financially crippled, I've said we're unlikely to spend much more than 30 million. Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
 
MrMarcello said:
Granted we can't predict the future but in five, ten years, we might all ask why not 20m for Henderson who went on to become world class.
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My crystal ball tells me he won't end up anywhere near Premiership class, let alone world class

Tom Cleverly will be the better player
 
SATA said:
My crystal ball tells me he won't end up anywhere near Premiership class, let alone world class

Tom Cleverly will be the better player
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Well I certainly hope Cleverley becomes class but anyone can take a wild guess at what they believe Henderson, or any young player, will develop into. Very few if any considered Beckham and Scholes at age 20 becoming world class. Scholes was still a fringe first team player while Beckham had taken over at right wing yet SAF signed Poborsky as he felt Beckham's future was in the center. A player like Henderson may just be another overrated English youngster, or thrust into the right club, he could develop into a top class player.
 
Amir said:
Joga_Bonito, I think people are underestimating him.
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That's actually an understatement. In my book, he's as good as Nani and definitely better than Valencia. Like Spammy said earlier in the thread, had he not been English, people would be going ga-ga around him.

In the transfer forum, he'd be known as "Alexis Sanchez".
 
Actually perhaps this is a small price to pay to see Nani continue on the right and develop his great partnership with Rafael.

Young has really good pace, can cross well and can take set pieces. If he's coming , then he'd be a good signing
 
What about Valencia moving into central midfield - could he take the Scholes role?

Certainly would gain defensive ability with him in the middle though he's not the passer Scholes is, but very few are. He's more creative than Carrick, Fletcher and Gibson. He's got the pace to wear out the opposition midfield.
 
Anduin said:
As usual a fantastic post, but I'd be really interested on your views which wingers are better than Nani over the course of this season?! Ronaldo (who's more of a centre forward these days) and Messi aside, I'd say noone. And I watch a fecking lot of football from every league. Nani has been nothing short of spectacular over the last 18 months (as you basically said as well), can't think of a better winger across Europe over that period.

By signing Young our wing choices for the next couple of seasons would be Nani, Valencia, Young and Park. Add Cleverley who could play a squad role like e.g. Gibson this season while Giggs moves to a more central role in his (probably) last season. Four proven wingers are required for a total of around 50-60 games IMHO, and Young could cover a number of positions adequately.

Out of curiosity, who would you like to sign if you had the chance, instead of Young to provide quality on both wings?
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I wouldn't say that anyone has been obviously better than Nani over the last year, apart from both Messi and Ronaldo, of course. As you have rightly suggested, neither is an orthodox wide player, but a kind of new breed of player who, while having starting positions, influence their teams in a much more profound way than most.

Nani would probably need to be similarly influential next season to be classed as one of the best players in the world in his position, in my opinion, because there are so many examples of players who have a brilliant season or 18 months and then never quite reach those heights again. I certainly don't expect that to happen with Nani, to be honest, largely as a function of the club that he plays for and the demands that are expected of him. It's a question of semantics, I suppose, with regard to whether a player is, at this very moment, one of the best, or genuinely one of the best, which should require longevity.

As to who we should sign, unlike some I am convinced that another player in the wide attacking positions would be beneficial, but it's obviously not a priority. I have to admit that the options are somewhat limited, which is why I wouldn't be overly concerned by the signing of Young. Two players that definitely stand out as potentially among the best in the world are Hazard and Sanchez, but there can be any number of reasons why they wouldn't be available or even desired by the club.

Other options would be a player like Neymar, who, while not really a wide player, looks to have the potential to become similar to Messi and Ronaldo in his ability to influence the team from any starting position. And we also have our own players in Welbeck, Cleverly, and even Morrison, who are likely to have to play slightly out of position in their formative years because of the importance of having established players in the center of midfield and attack.

At this point, I would probably prefer that we wait and see if a player of genuine potential either emerges or becomes available in the near future, particularly as it isn't a current priority, and for the club to focus on other areas of the team. But having said that, that very focus might be the reason why we are possibly looking to sign a player like Young for a relatively good price, which would certainly be understandable if not mine own preferred choice.
 
MrMarcello said:
What about Valencia moving into central midfield - could he take the Scholes role?

Certainly would gain defensive ability with him in the middle though he's not the passer Scholes is, but very few are. He's more creative than Carrick, Fletcher and Gibson. He's got the pace to wear out the opposition midfield.
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No but if Park can play in a midfield 3 then Valencia can. And Young can play in the hole off the striker like he has done for Villa this season.

None of them can take Scholes' place though
 
Ekeke said:
Honestly cant see why we'd sign him unless Park or Giggs are no longer here next season. We know Giggs will be......
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Giggs at 38 has no business still being on the wing beyond this season, given hsi age and the fact we miss his creative talents in central areas as a result of keeping him out wide. We need to tackle next season with 4 wingers there for the long haul. Adding Young to Nani, Park and Valencia will give us that.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Giggs at 38 has no business still being on the wing beyond this season, given hsi age and the fact we miss his creative talents in central areas as a result of keeping him out wide. We need to tackle next season with 4 wingers there for the long haul. Adding Young to Nani, Park and Valencia will give us that.
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The problem with that is, where does Giggs play then? If its central midfield then we absolutely cannot afford to give Scholes a new deal. We cant have them both as options in there unless we dont sign a midfielder... And we sorely need to sign a midfielder.
 
Joga_Bonito said:
...Those are obviously great options to have, but none of them, in my opinion, perhaps apart from Nani -- although it is yet to be shown consistently over a period of 2-3 years -- could be described as amoung the best few players in the world in that position.....
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Which shouldn't matter. We already have Nani who will soon be amongst the best 3 winegr on the planet. We really don't need another player like that due to tehf fact it would hinder our rotation policy.

Id rather be bothered with us adding real class to center midfield, than us doing more than increasing or squad depth outwide.
 
Ekeke said:
The problem with that is, where does Giggs play then? If its central midfield then we absolutely cannot afford to give Scholes a new deal. We cant have them both as options in there unless we dont sign a midfielder... And we sorely need to sign a midfielder.
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Firstly Giggs will never fail to get games if he maintains the form he has had this season next year. He is a top top notch playmaker to have wide or down the middle and we rotate our squad.

Second, we will add to our center midfield quality regardless of what happens to Scholes and Giggs contract wise. They are both at an age at which their presence wont be dictating what we do for the long term.
 
Well apparently we have already done a deal for Young. So we can't do anything about. I would focus more on us getting a central midfielder than a GK.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Id rather be bothered with us adding real class to center midfield, than us doing more than increasing or squad depth outwide.
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If it's about priorities, I fully agree. But who's to say we can't or won't do both? I'd put another winger third in the list of priorities, it's hardly down in fifth or sixth that signing one would be wierd. Giggs has aged another year, Obertan has done the same without taking his talent forward. It speaks for itself.
 
Ekeke said:
No but if Park can play in a midfield 3 then Valencia can. And Young can play in the hole off the striker like he has done for Villa this season.

None of them can take Scholes' place though
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Not surprising considering there are probably two players in the entire league who could replace Scholes, shame Arsenal have them both in Fabregas and Wilshere, but in the end the names changes and new stars are forged by United and the club marches on.
 
Alex said:
Not surprising considering there are probably two players in the entire league who could replace Scholes, shame Arsenal have them both in Fabregas and Wilshere, but in the end the names changes and new stars are forged by United and the club marches on.
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There are a few names who could replace Scholes in his current role or at the very least, greatly improve on who we'd have left over (Anderson or Carrick as our playmaker) trying to play the Scholes role.

Ideally we'll be looking for a player to become as good as Scholes at his best, thats when there are few names of available players. But the current Scholes is so much less than he used to be, that replacing what he gives now is a bit easier.
 
Amir said:
If it's about priorities, I fully agree. But who's to say we can't or won't do both? I'd put another winger third in the list of priorities, it's hardly down in fifth or sixth that signing one would be wierd. Giggs has aged another year, Obertan has done the same without taking his talent forward. It speaks for itself.
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Indeed. I'm just saying we don't need another superstar out wide so getting in a Young suits us down to the ground. For I want us to be concentrate on improving our quality down the middle. Which includes signing quality for that role and using Giggs centrally.
 
I presume this means Obertan gets some time on loan next season, especially with Cleverley returning from loan and Giggs likely to play another season.

I don't think SAF will sell him just yet.
 
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