I’m shocked that you are shocked, this is the CAF.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
Now that you reminded me, I am shocked that I am shocked.
Are you forget what Jose achieved at Porto?
Didn't you see the guy how replied on this saying he was lucky at this time to have top players as Deco and Carvalho ?
They are even stripping this success from him and giving it to other universal reasons.Didn't you see the guy how replied on this saying he was lucky at this time to have top players as Deco and Carvalho ?
Doesn't that reasoning make Poch look worse? He had Kane and Erickson and he still couldn't win anything with the club.
Phew we can finally close this thread.
Didn't you see the guy how replied on this saying he was lucky at this time to have top players as Deco and Carvalho ?
It's a joke, really. They need to go and ask both players what Jose did to their careers after he arrived at Porto.
Not just the CL, a bloody treble.
The extent some United fans are willing to bash any kind of success he had with any previous club while overrating anything other manager does, you'll think Mourinho isn't the current United manager.
The notion that Spurs have squad depth issues is such a myth. All the players they've being signing for ages is being veiled by a summer where they signed none and sold none.
It will be the new Manchester United way.
Glorious Boredom.
I'm still on the bandwagon. Would love him here after José wins the quadruple.
Now I would subscribe to this timeline.
Have you seen our bench options? We are severely lacking in central midfield for starters.
You have Dier, Wanyama, Winks, Dembele and Sissoko for two positions.
Having numbers does not necessarily mean depth - look at the quality there - not much.
Funny how there are some posters in here using our lack of investment this summer to defend Mourinho but calling Poch overrated and not good enough for us ... despite Spurs complete lack of investment. At least Jose had 500m to spend in the last 3 years.
Oh yeah, they also just beat us 3-0.
Personally I'd love him here after Jose.
Oh yeah, they also just beat us 3-0.
Personally I'd love him here after Jose.
You are not the only team that have issues at CM though. Even City can only call on Fernandinho, Gundogan, Douglas Luiz and Delph. It's not much better than yours.
EDIT - I mean the other top team's midfield options are not much better than yours.
I don't get it with Hotspur fans, when we tell them they have a good team they'd downplay it till no end as if they're fecking watford. Just so that they can justify Poch not winning anything and that top 4 is the holy grail of hotspur. As if you're actually supporting Pochetinoo and not Tottenham.
bottler's mentality, when you accept this notion that your manager can't realistically win any trophies you might as well pack it up.
We have great strength in other positions - comparible and in some instances better than other clubs in the top 4/6 - central midfield though we are severely lacking. That is just the truth, if you think that it is a bottlers mentality to honestly rate your players and acknowledge strengths and weaknesses of the team then fine, I'm 100% a bottler. I'm going to just ignore the other total bullshit you said.
Well, Liverpool have only 4 midfielders for 3 spots, and Chelsea have the likes of Drinkwater and Barkley in case Kante got injured, which is underwhelming.
In Liverpool match you had the likes of Sanchez, Wanyama, Son and Aurier on the bench, how is that poor ? Are the other teams have any superstars on their bench ?
The only team in the league with great depth is City, otherwise, you will only find good depth in the likes of Madrid, Barca..etc.
Almost all English teams don't have any good sub to replace their best player if he gets injured. United can't replace Pogba/Lukaku, Chelsea can't replace Hazard, Liverpool can't replace VVD/Salah/Keita, same to Spurs can't replacing Kane. It's not an issue for Spurs alone to be used as an excuse.
Because its by far the massive exception.
Inter were hardly some tottenham level team either
You asked for an example and you get it. I don't understand the reason for asking for another example tbh.
Oh but they were, they were shit before he took over and shit after he left, and are still shit today, they only won every thing when Jose was coaching, but no he was lucky according to you haha.
Poch had a chance several times to go for Europe League and decided to throw it out completely by playing second string in the KO matches. It wasn't long ago when he was qualifying to CL to play second string in the CL group just to get KOed. They got eliminated from Europe League by the likes of Gent and Firontena.
He always talks down the cup competitions in his pressers as if he's too good for them even though he had several chances to go for them.
He always talks down the cup competitions in his pressers as if he's too good for them even though he had several chances to go for them.
Why has this turned into a Mourinho thread, invariably slagging off his career? And all in an attempt to big up someone that has won nothing in 9 years of management?
I'm talking about central midfield - Wanyama is coming back from serious injury and is barely able to take part at present, behind him we have Sisokko who is one of the most useless midfielders in the league. Not great depth in central midfield - good depth in other areas I agree but it's CM i'm discussing.
I have also mentioned the depth of the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool in CM. I think United and City have good depth in CM areas but the rest of the teams are nearly similar in this position so it's not Spurs problem alone.
Lack of investment or not he has a good team on his hands and had it last 2, 3 years. I think it's fair to say he should have won something with it. He probably won't do it this year either but he'll get his list of usual excuses, lack of investment being one of them.
Also I can't phantom how can anyone think Poch is a better manager. Jose had difficulties up until now at United but on the other hand he won trophies and his 2nd place is being downplayed and Poch's top 4 finishes are regarded as some kind of mercurial success. Not to mention now in an attempt to glorify Poch some United fans (which is strange to say the least) downplay even his Porto and Inter successes.
Jose will be judged at the end of the season but Poch, win or lose, will get his excuses.
It's strange that United fans defend a Spurs manager all the while shitting on their own. Maybe I'm too old school to get my head around it.
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Oh yeah it's all luck.
I mean, does anybody really think Pochettino is a bad manager?
He's not elite, and he's definitely not as good as Jose (who has won it all) but he's quite clearly done good jobs at both Southampton and Spurs. He improved both these clubs whilst spending very little, whilst playing attractive football and developing a number of players.
There's definitely an argument to be made that he's overrated, or that links to elite clubs are unwarranted due to his lack of trophies, but I don't see how you could argue he's a 'bad' manager. Surely that tag would go to the likes of Moyes or Pardew, guys who nearly always end up making the team they manage worse?
Jose or no Jose. Poch has a very good squad that should be challenging for 2nd. They're in the same band as us, liverpool and chelsea in that we're all behind City but equal otherwise.
For me they've got the best attacker and best second best attacking midfielder. A manager that receives as much hype as he does should be taking that squad to cup victories at least.
For me they've got the best attacker and best second best attacking midfielder. A manager that receives as much hype as he does should be taking that squad to cup victories at least.
This.
To be fair it's not you spurs fans who overrate him it's our own fans. If the constant overrating and contrasting standards of Poch weren't so prominent on this forum there really wouldn't even be an argument to be had.
I think league wise Pochettino has done excellent work, as a coach he's world class and has done brilliantly in developing a number of players at the club. Nearly everybody has improved significantly under his management. I think the year we could have won it was where we finished 2nd, we had Walker & Rose bombing down the flanks and Wanyama/Dembele dominating the midfield, but unfortunately Conte's Chelsea were utterly ruthless that season and deserved winners. Since then, United/City invested heavily whereas we lost a key player in Walker, and suffered injuries/declines without addressing them properly (Rose, Dembele, Wanyama) and surprise surprise, our level is dropping season by season. Whereas we're gradually getting chipped away at, other teams are adding quality to their team every year.
We should probably have won a cup in that time, but obviously we simply haven't taken the league cup seriously (whether you agree with this or not), and aren't at a level where the CL is realistic. That basically just leaves the FA Cup, and we've reached two semi-finals but been knocked out by the team who won the league and the team who finished 2nd. Both these games Pochettino was put up against managers I would consider excellent in high pressure, tactical affairs (Mourinho & Conte) and quite simply in these situations he has a ton of room for improvement. This is what will hold him back from being a manager of an elite club, his in game decisions and tactical choices are not on that level.
We should probably have won a cup in that time, but obviously we simply haven't taken the league cup seriously (whether you agree with this or not), and aren't at a level where the CL is realistic. That basically just leaves the FA Cup, and we've reached two semi-finals but been knocked out by the team who won the league and the team who finished 2nd. Both these games Pochettino was put up against managers I would consider excellent in high pressure, tactical affairs (Mourinho & Conte) and quite simply in these situations he has a ton of room for improvement. This is what will hold him back from being a manager of an elite club, his in game decisions and tactical choices are not on that level.
I didn't ask for an example of jose winning with a smaller team as everyone remembers Porto.
I said would he win with a smaller team today and would poch win with a big team
It's standard 'grass is greener' syndrome. People always want what they don't have, but I guarantee if they got it that Pochettino wouldn't live up to their lofty expectations. Your quality of football may improve, but he can be an incredibly frustrating, stubborn manager who also simply isn't on the same level as Jose in terms of sheer ability to win trophies, which at an elite club is always an expectation. I don't think he's ready for United at all yet, he needs either a few years more at a club like us (Or if he does move on, another club on a similar level) because he still has a lot to learn. Some of the mistakes he makes on the bigger occasions simply wouldn't be accepted regularly by the biggest teams.
Who is the better manager right now? Wenger vs Benitez. Who is the better manager right now?
FWIW I think both Jose and Poch are in the same league. Jose might even be better but Poch's style would suit us more
Obviously Poch isn't a better manager, you're right, that's because Jose has a history of winning and Poch hasn't done anything like that yet. However Poch is a lot younger than Jose and has shown a lot of promise as a manager whereas lets face it, Jose has completely lost his magic touch in the last few years. I don't think it'd overly radical to suggest that in the next four to five years Poch could be a better manager than Jose, given one's rise and the other's decline. As I said, I'd like Poch here after Jose is gone, not for us to sack Jose and get him in (i'd only do that for someone like Zidane).
Your first paragraph makes me laugh, you could genuinely use the exact same thing for Jose.
Fair enough. We will see. I don't this it's radical but who knows, there's no 100 percent guarantee he'll succeed in a bigger club. Also I don't agree Jose completely lost his touch but that's for another thread. I hope.
Poch is on the rise for sure but I think it's about time for him to make a step ahead in his career.
Spurs fan making the most sense here, respect.