swap managers and see how Mourinho does for Spurs, he wouldn't finish top6 with that team, hwhile moaning about the money spend every fecking press conference, he'd be gone after one season and retire while I think Poch would easily make top4 what Mourinho does for us. Would I swap? Yes of course playing for the same positions while playing way more entertaining football is yes of course for me. Pochettino will end up in a club like Barcelona or Bayern sooner or later and people will be scratching their heads as why we didnt make the move. The teams have strong philosophy and money just need a manager to apply that and Poch certainly has a brand of football which could be applied to top clubs. Fools here, way less experienced managers are getting the top jobs and performing
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
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City new strategy : Buy in January the best players that still are in the CL . Win Win.
Silly post, just silly.
Should rename this place, "PochCafe"
Or, "Tuch Too Much" after Diet Klopp
Clueless
Or, "Tuch Too Much" after Diet Klopp
Clueless
Simeone is not the manager we need, stylistically he would be worse than Mourinho. I'm a big fan of what Poch has done and would welcome him at United and disagree he is a B rate manager - he would be able to achieve more with our resources and he acts with decorum and gives youth a chance. I do think he needs to win something even if just to get that monkey off his back and I don't think he has helped himself by not having a serious crack at the league cup.
I would also disagree that Spurs have a better squad than ours - we have one of the best squads in the league but we perform less than the sum of our parts which is down to Mourinho to improve. Spurs have a great starting 11 but depth is a real issue not helped by not investing in the squad this summer. I do think they struck lucky at Old Trafford (and thanks to some charitable defending) but it rather papered over the cracks which have been surfaced since. I'm not Mourinho's biggest fan but he's probably the best man for the job, for now at least.
Lloris missing for them has been a big blow for them. Dele Alli and Wanyama were also out. Son just back from Korea having played 8 games in 26 days out there. Add that to the fact that most of their squad had a long summer at the world cup and it's fair to say they are struggling to cope right now which is wonderful as it gives Utd a boost that our direct rivals for top 4 are not out of sight in league table already. Oh how they could do with Anthony Martial now up front to give Kane a rest. Give us Eriksen and he's yours Levy!!
So you want to follow up the negative bore fest of Lvg and Jose with simeone? Wow
I have no love for either, but tottenham have to battle 5 much bigger richer clubs. That's a far bigger mission than over coming bayern!
I do agree.
But would jose win anything with a spurs level club? Would poch win with a big club?
Porto?
The only reason I can come up with as to why he gets so much less slack is because he hasn't spent as much as the other managers. A lot of their best players were free or shrewd signings like Eriksen for 12m.
Yes. That said, you can always get lucky. He stumbled across a good Porto team including a few players that would go on to dominate in Europe (Deco, Maniche and Carvalho). And the road to victory was surprisingly easy. The only one of the teams he met in the knock-out that was among the two best teams in their league that year was Lyon (Monaco finished 3rd in Ligue 1)
Deportivo and Man Utd was not at their best. We had a back four consisting of P. Neville, W. Brown, G. Neville and Fortune (O’Shea for Fortune in the second match), and a 19/20 year old Fletcher as a winger and Butt and Djemba in midfield.
They did well to win it. But not many teams get a route like that.
And the mighty Inter? Lucky there too I suppose..
So when Mourinho wins with a small team it's because he was very lucky with the group available, not that he developed these players or made them reach this level ?
Then allow me to say Poch is also very lucky to hit with some players like Kane, Alli and Eriksen who miraculously evolved on their own to become top players just like the Porto players did on their own.
He did do it though. Poch hasn't done any of that once, not a league title, a domestic cup or ever sniffed European glory in either the EL (went out to Gent in the first knockout round in 2016/17 playing a full strength squad) or CL.
Jose's CV speaks for itself. Poch has work to do to even be talked about as the same level as a manager as Jose. Poch is obviously not a joke, but to be talked about among the elite he has to win silverware and tbh he's had ample time and a squad good enough to put something in the trophy cabinet over the last 3 years. That he hasn't done so doesn't mean he's a failure, but it does show that perhaps his tactical approach in big matches isn't up to par with elite managers yet.
They got a route like that because winning in Europe is hard and was a bit more random as the divide between the top clubs and some of the less fancied clubs was less extreme back. You can't control who you play, just whether you beat them or not and they did unlike more fancied clubs who failed to do so.
He also won a treble with Inter who, yes, were dominant domestically prior to his arrival, but they had achieved absolutely nothing in Europe. Their path to the CL in the knockout rounds involved eliminating a Chelsea side who scored for fun under Ancelotti (103 goals in the league), CSKA Moscow, peak Barcelona under Pep and an excellent Bayern side who were looking to complete a treble of their own in the final.
Every side who wins a CL benefits from luck in way or another, but it's your quality and determination to capitalize on that luck which allows you to win. Jose has done it twice with two entirely different squads.
No I wouldn't. Pochettino is a highly rated young manager that is managing a second tier team. He was first choice to replace Zidane, and he would probably get a chance at most clubs that can pay him astronomical salaries. For comparison Mourinho and Guardiola earn north of £15m a year, while Pochettino now makes up to £8.3m a year.
Pochettino signed it because he wanted to stay at Spurs, Spurs simply cannot match the top wages and so I doubt he would think that as a major factor. Of course a pay rise is good, but he could get bigger pay rises elsewhere.
Why is it so hard to give the man credit when credit is due? Monaco beat a Real Madrid team loaded with world class talent. Deportivo took out Juve and Milan, so while it may not be similar to the path Madrid had this last CL, his Porto team beat teams that took out bigger clubs.
I think so, managing a lower side club play's very well into Jose's counter attacking style. His style might not be the most attractive but there's no denying that it is very effective and even more so in tournaments. Even in this so called low period of his managerial career he has still achieved more than these managers that are the flavor of the month.
It was a no brainer signing a long deal.
Take a massive pay increase and long security, at a club with next to no expectations.
Also, as a manager, any release fee or compensation, won't be anywhere near the players, so he probably thinks any top club will easily sort that angle down the line.
It's their top players signing massive extensions I don't necessarily understand.
Pochettino is a good manager end of story. Look what he did with Southampton and look at them now. Look at Spurs before he took the reigns. If you don't fancy him that's fine, but any suggestion he's overrated or somehow doesn't have a "winning mentality" (I personally hate when fans use this made up rubbish as an argument) is utter nonsense. His teams regularly dominate smaller opponents and play well against larger opposition. The same people slagging off on him will go missing if Spurs win a run of matches.
It depends completely on his motivations. If he wants to progress through the footballing ladder then signing the extension was the wrong decision. Madrid ruled him out because he signed that contract extension, and he would probably have the opportunity to manager at most top clubs since they go through so many managers so quickly.
Madrid didn't want to pay the fee/compensation so if he thought that top clubs would buy out his contract he was wrong.
He didn't want to go there at that stage by most accounts. It was probably the worst time ever to go to Madrid - post 3 champs leagues in a row with Ronaldo going? It's a volatile job at the best of times there!
He knows he's about as safe as you ever are at a bigger club at Spurs, as even coming 6th wouldn't be seen as a disaster, with the stadium upheaval, and no signings.
Nearly every word of this is wrong. But especially the bolded.
I still think Poch will go on to very big things with a bigger club. His career mirrors Klopps in that they both way over-achieved with smaller clubs. Turned many youngsters into stars. Had great records in the transfer window turning bargains into stars.
I believe Poch would make a big impact at a bigger club with bigger spending power because he'd have squad depth and the kinds of back up strikers/forwards that the big clubs have of the quality of Aguero, Mahrez, Bale (last season), Martial, Rashford, Jesus, Isco, Dybala, Giroud etc
When Spurs beat us recently there was a lot of comments how Poch was the future and Jose was obsolete. In a few games that's all changed around again and it will change back to that way again when Spurs go on another run and we have a bad patch.
I believe Poch would make a big impact at a bigger club with bigger spending power because he'd have squad depth and the kinds of back up strikers/forwards that the big clubs have of the quality of Aguero, Mahrez, Bale (last season), Martial, Rashford, Jesus, Isco, Dybala, Giroud etc
When Spurs beat us recently there was a lot of comments how Poch was the future and Jose was obsolete. In a few games that's all changed around again and it will change back to that way again when Spurs go on another run and we have a bad patch.
Winning a league cup won't make him a success because success/failure isn't so shallow. Which of Pochetino/Juande Ramos/Redknapp won a trophy? The one who did is the third in that rank of managers. Even Martin Jol is considered a more successful manager.
If trophies were all that determined success then the 70s were a complete waste of time watching United as the only major honour was an FA Cup (with a Second Division title after relegation). But Tommy Docherty is revered by folks old enough to witness it because Utd played outstanding football with a young rebuilt team. Mourinho has already won more than the Doc but their standing in my eyes is night and day.
Gold generations are remembered by the trophies they won, not by finishing in top 4. What will people remember this golden Spurs generations ? By finishing top 4 year in year out ? It'll be underwhelming for any Spurs fans. This is their best ever generation. It's not comparable to any previous one. If they don't win trophies with this when will they ?
Trophies matter, and in case of Spurs I bet they're desperate to use this generation to win anything.
No one is questioning Poch's ability to finish in top 4 or finish ahead of some teams in the league, everyone is questioning his ability to win trophies or manage games that actually matter. So far he has done nothing to prove the doubters wrong in this matter. His teams bottles it at every big game that matters, and always bottles the last or pre last game in each cup. As long as he's not able to guide this Spurs team to at least win a cup, his ability about winning trophies will always get questioned, and you can't simply throw this out of the window claiming that winning trophies doesn't matter but top 4 is enough. You're not proving the doubters wrong or replaying on them in this, because no one questions his ability to grab a top 4 position. Problem is in top teams finishing in top 4 won't be enough.
well you clearly dont watch Atletico play if you think its a borefest. There is nothing wrong with defending deep against certain teams but Atletico play great football almost all the time. Im sure fans like you would prefer Pochs avg football and being trophyless.
You’d better read our rules pal
What has he done at spurs? His signings have been hit and miss. Why didnt he develop 'Janssen'? and thats nonsense. United have a converted RW at RB and a LB with 5 good games. Spurs have Trippier and Davies as well as Rose for cover. They have two top experienced Cbs whereas we have Smalling who didnt even get into the England squad. Kane is better than Lukaku, Son is better than Martial at this moment, Eriksen is miles ahead of Lingard. We have De gea and Pogba who would get into their team.
They really don't.
Bottom line is as much he has done a good job there, they haven't won anything yet and look to be toiling a bit so far this season. Early days, but the result at Inter kind of summed them up the way it happened and they could have lost by 5 or 6 to Liverpool last weekend.
You should tell that to the Jose lovers. They seem to have some complex regarding Pochettino and come here to celebrate as soon as he loses a game. It's quite pathetic really. United fan have gone from being arrogant to everything we used to call City or Liverpool fans just a few years back.
As for the trophies thing, it's good to win small cups and stuff, but the only trophies that matter are the league and champions league. Neither have won that at their current clubs, nor do they look like winning them anytime soon.
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Oh yeah. He's doing a good job on a shoe string budget. Imagine what he can achieve with United budget.
I swear i read that somewhere before
You have a habit of slagging off our players and it is starting to become your defining characteristic as a poster.
In terms of your actual post, If you think Shaw has only had 5 good games then i question whether you were watching his pre-leg break games. The fact that he is one of the most talented players we have seems lost on a few posters on here. Full back is a position that essentially doesn't exist in the traditional sense anymore and as such a converted winger is basically what full backs have become.
The world cup squad is an interesting point, you rightfully say that Smalling didn't make it but leave out that Phil Jones did, i'm not saying that Jones is a world beater but by your own logic it counts for something.
i'm not going to sit here and say that Poch is a bad manager but i will say that he seems to lack the motivation skills to take Spurs to the next level and as a result there might even be a case for saying that he has underachieved. They bend over for City every year, struggle against all of the top 6 and despite sticking 3 past us they were arguably only worth a point on the night. They are also on a current 3 match losing streak which was the end of the world for Jose after losing 2 this year.
The measure of a manager isn't what he does when everything is going well, it's what he does and how he behaves when things are going badly.
At the moment Pochettino is failing that test. He has no idea how to halt the team's slide and he's continually attacking journalists at press conferences. Spurs are paying the price of having a good first eleven but no backup.
At the moment Pochettino is failing that test. He has no idea how to halt the team's slide and he's continually attacking journalists at press conferences. Spurs are paying the price of having a good first eleven but no backup.
But Mourinho does the same thing when things fall apart
There you go then.
Why do people suddenly erase PORTO from their memories when talking about Jose? And how about Inter winning that CL?
I am honestly shocked that some people are actually arguing that Poch is a better manager than Jose. I am honestly shocked.