Spurs would have been delighted with a poor 70 million spend. They may even have bought a player that would start and improve the team with that money.Using the non spending excuse for Poch while asking Mourinho to do with what he has after a similar poor summer. Contradiction in its finest.
You either give both the excuse of poor summer or not, otherwise it's hypocrisy.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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Care to tell us what depth the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal.. etc have in their squad if their top player is injured or underperformed ? Which great players are resting on these teams bench ?
Only City have any kind of good depth in the league. The rest are similar.
The bold part though.
You clearly have nothing to say and is just willing to go the insults route instead to make it personel. Seen it multiple times before.
What should I say? You keep making things up and talking nonsense.
My first post which you responded to was:
What is wrong with that? Levy did sell him a dummy this summer. Or are you one of the "Jose lovers", who took offense to the first sentence?
"Non-spending excuse"? Spurs actually, I mean really, did not spend a single penny this summer. How is that an excuse?
In addition, we added a half a mil/week player in January.
Levy is an arrogant, smug cnut and I'm happy that he's getting a little reality check. You want to party with the big boys? You have to spend like one.
I still rate Poch and if became available would not mind him as our manager. I'd like to see him at work with a decent transfer kitty.
I reckon though that in a couple of seasons he'll be at Madrid.
I still rate Poch and if became available would not mind him as our manager. I'd like to see him at work with a decent transfer kitty.
I reckon though that in a couple of seasons he'll be at Madrid.
The wrong is those excuses you're piling up for Poch are exactly the same ones getting trashed by the Anti-Mourinho fans saying he should do with what he has and get more of the players instead of asking for signings and the players mistakes are due to lack of coaching, which in general is hypocrisy in its finest. You either be consistent listing the same excuses for both or not.
You didn't replay on the depth part though. Probably because you invented it and had nothing to prove that they lack depth compared to the rest anyway, so decided to goal posting shift to other thing. I said it you clearly had nothing to say anyway.
Their squad definitely is overrated on here. The first team is a competitive but they have serious depth issues. Still you are correct that they do have bottling mentality that we see with many sports teams that haven't won anything in a long time. They definitely should have won a small trophy in this period when they are good. That is a blot on Pochettino. However, I didn't know mentioning that they didn't strengthen in the summer is going to be so contentious with some. It's bewildering.
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We sure did the "undroppable one"
I am not pilling up anything. I said he they don't have adequate squad depth and should have bought a player or two to help with that. Where is the pile up?
Mourinho and Poch are in completely different situations. Jose has spent close to $400m to a squad that finished level on points and won the FA cup in Van Gaal's last season. There is no comparison between two. One has to work under restrictions and the other has been provided most of what he has asked for.
What depth part? Our bench on occasions is more expensive than the other teams starting XI's. We have a Martial, Rashford, Fred, Bailly, Lindelöf, Mata etc. constantly sitting on the bench ready to come in. Depth is not our problem.
And why make the Chelsea and Arsenal comparisons when both those teams finished outside the top 4 while Spurs finished in the top 3? Arsenal aren't even a top club anymore. And Chelsea have Willian come off the bench, a player some of our fans would have us buy for 60m. They also have good CB and midfield depth. Chelsea at the weekend had close to 200m worth of players sitting on the bench. Cesc didn't even make the squad.
Alderweireld and Trippier both left out so as not to be cup tied. Trippier a life long Utd fan, peak value and at an age levy would look to cash in..double swoop in January
Why are you bringing the past history spending when I'm obvioualy have been talking about the last season poor spending from both and its impact on the season ? I have said that they had a pretty poor window and that's what you get when you don't spend well but it's ridiculous when we also say the same about our market the answer is Mourinho should do with what he has and don't ask for more signings. Poch should also do with what he has then. Bringing the past history of spending is just goal post shifting to spending comparisons when we are talking about the very specific last summer.
Our depth in attack is 2 inconsistent youngeters and a past it player. We struggled massively when Pogba and Lukaku got injured last season due to that. Liverpool have the mostly injured Sturridge and Shaqiri for their attacking bench options and almost none at defense and midfield. Chelsea have the failed Morata and the past it Fabregas on their bench as attaking options, and their Kante sub is fecking Drinkwater. Their only good option from the bench is Pedro.
I don't see any kind of great depth in these teams to make them more stronger squad than Spurs. Only City have proven players on their bench as B.Silva, Gundogan..etc. The rest are just 1-2 good bench options and that's it. People were saying that Chelsea squad is very thin last season.
And regaeding the main lineup, their main XI is up there with the best in the league and many of their players are always contenders for the best in most options.
They needed good summer for sure but acting like Poch is having it tough there is ridiculous.
What is this? Excuses for Jose's impending failure with us?
Anyway, we got a £50m central midfielder and a £20m right back, who according to the manager is the best youngster in the world in his category. In addition, we had already added a half-mil/week player to our squad in January, who is supposed to shine after a summers rest and "settling in". Not to mention the addition of Pereira to the squad. Comparing our summer business with Spurs is ludicrous. In fact, it is daft.
Martial was a golden ball winner who scored 17 in his first season for us. Rashford came out of nowhere and performed admirably under Van Gaal. It's Jose's fault if he cannot get a tune out of these players. That he prefers workhorses to defend rather than two talented attacking players. We also have adequate CB & midfield depth.
Chelsea have Willian, Moses, Pedro, Zappacosta, Drinkwater, Barkley, Giroud, Christensen, Cahill - plenty of good players with a lot of experience to choose from. Also, depth in squad doesn't mean the same quality of player coming in and replacing a first XI player. No one is going to have a Hazard clone or Kante clone sitting on the bench to replace them.
I am not interested in any more Jose Vs Poch. A spurs fan can take it from here.
Heil Mourinho!
It really does seem like people are "fans" of managers these days. Really odd modern phenomenon.
State of this post, listing the likes of Moses, Drinkwater and Barkley as good squad depth. Hell even Chelsea fans aren't that deluded to make these as good players as you're doing to prove your point.
Can you tell us buddy if Hazard gets injured tomorrow who will replace him and produce the same perfromance ? Who will replace Kante and do his job ? Pedro and Drinkwater ?
Regarding us, no it's still 2 inconsistent youngseters who had their best year in a season we finished 5th in, and still we struggled massively any time Pogba and Lukaku were absent because none can do the job thy they can do in midfield and attack, just like how Chelsea will struggle massively if Hazard and Kante are injured or Liverpool struggling if Salah, Mane..etc got injured. Liverpool already looked pretty poor whenver Salah was absent last season. It's like that in every big team around except City. No one really has an excptional depth or proven players on the pitch to make us feel like Poch is having it pretty tough compared to the rest.
Listing things like "Heil Mourinho" or "impending failure" weaken your points and make you look silly. I know that your logic is already weak and flawed that you have to use sarcasm to boost it but come on!
Cracking up a bit in the press conference. "DO you regret not picking Trippier and Toby"? Just say no.
I don't see how any reasonable person can equate Pochettino's situation with Mourinho's. Even if you factor in this season alone (which to me is short-sighted and convenient), we are talking about £70M+ vs £0 spent and most of that was spent on a player expected to be in the starting XI.
So yes, you can use the non-spending argument (it's not really an excuse) since Spurs literally spent nothing. I can't think of an instance when a top-tier English side failed to make an incoming transfer.
Poch is a good manager who I'm still not completely sure about being good enough for an elite club. I don't think their players looking shattered and out of form is his fault and is just the expected outcome when the depth at your disposal and lack of options off the bench are limited due to Levy's unwillingness to spend.
That said the insistence on playing out of the back which Watford, Liverpool and Inter have pounced upon is on the manager. Similarly making puzzling substitutions which fail to have the desired impact when ahead 1-0 against Watford and Inter, matches which ended as defeats, also reflect poorly on Pochettino.
The manager can still shoulder some blame even if the biggest problem is with the club's failure to back him in the market at all. These things aren't entirely mutually exclusive.
That said the insistence on playing out of the back which Watford, Liverpool and Inter have pounced upon is on the manager. Similarly making puzzling substitutions which fail to have the desired impact when ahead 1-0 against Watford and Inter, matches which ended as defeats, also reflect poorly on Pochettino.
The manager can still shoulder some blame even if the biggest problem is with the club's failure to back him in the market at all. These things aren't entirely mutually exclusive.
Same guy who won 2 titles and a cup against a team which had double the finances, and then reached UCL's final?
When Pocch achieves half of that (hint: it won't ever happen), we can compare them.
That's not a thing anymore. No more cup tied nonsense.
Is cup tied still a thing? Thought they dropped that this season or am i mistaking?
Edit : never mind, saw the post above this
Hang on, you can play for two teams in the champions league in one season now?
Correct. Was announced in March.
He's already done that (beat teams with twice the resources). He finished above four teams with twice the resources (United, Chelsea, Liverpool & City) in 15/16; four teams in 16/17 (United, City, Arsenal, Liverpool); and three teams in 17/18 (Liverpool, Chelsea & Arsenal).
He isn't as fortunate as Klopp in that he has to beat 5 teams with twice his resources... Not just one as per the hugely non-competitive Bundesliga.
Klopp has won exactly the same as Poch in England... Whilst at the same time spending hundreds of millions more on wages/transfers.
Since when finishing ahead of some other team is the same as winning a title? Only in delusional Caf.
Klopp has reached an UCL final in England (as did with BVB). Poch has the 'almost defeated Juventus' trophy.
I hate Klopp but you must be a die hard Poch fan to compare this to Klopp's BVB.
Klopp actually won things with BVB, league titles, Cup, super cups, reaching CL final ..etc. This team was also created out of nothing. Not much investment in it.
At this time Klopp was universally beloved and wanted by every fan to manage their team. He got hated later due to his antics with Liverpool but at this time if you asked anyone who they want to manage their team, Klopp would have been in most answers. That was his peak as a manager.
That's Poch's 5th year with Spurs and his biggest achievement was finishing 3rd in two horses race against fecking Leicester.
Klopp actually won things with BVB, league titles, Cup, super cups, reaching CL final ..etc. This team was also created out of nothing. Not much investment in it.
At this time Klopp was universally beloved and wanted by every fan to manage their team. He got hated later due to his antics with Liverpool but at this time if you asked anyone who they want to manage their team, Klopp would have been in most answers. That was his peak as a manager.
That's Poch's 5th year with Spurs and his biggest achievement was finishing 3rd in two horses race against fecking Leicester.
He finished 2nd the following season with 86 points. The highest runner up tally is 89 so their finish was very impressive. Moreover because at the start of that campaign people were downplaying them as the "big boys" would get back to normal. Well Guardiola and Mourinho came to Manchester, both spent big but finished quite a bit behind. 60% of the CAF didn't have them to finish Top 4 yet mocked them for apparently bottling the league at the end.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the...ummers-derailers-will-be-threadbanned.419369/
A League Cup isn't going to decide whether he has been a success or failure. The fact is he has put Spurs into the Top 4 with a far less fiscal hand than his rivals and even now a team like Everton who have outspend them massively in the last two years.
Moving from WHL after 2016/17 was the worst thing that could have happened because they went W17 D2 L0 in the last season but that home advantage was taken away.
He didn't compete for the league title this season unlike the previous one, so no I will take the season in which he competed in at higher regards.
Ridiculous to claim a cup win won't make him a success. Are you Spurs fan to talk in their behavior ? I bet they are at a point in which they are desperate to start winning something after years of "almost winning" stuff. At some point it ceases to become good enough to "almost" win a title or a cup or winning some big games in the league but much achievement. This is their best generation in their history, it will be ridiculous if it ended up not even winning a league cup.
Anyway, no one is saying he did a poor job there, but we're saying is you can't compare what he did to someone like Klopp at BVB, who won leagues and cups while reaching CL final defeating Madrid in the run with next to none investment.
Poch did a good job. No one is denying that and I bet you can't bring a single quote from anyone of his critics about him doing poorly there but we're refusing to get into the overhype about him being the next elite manager ready for top teams. He needs to start winning things, at least a fraction of what Klopp did with BVB. He has been having all the tools for 2-3 years but keeps bottling it at the last or before last step.
His next gig will be at a top club and I'm confident he'll shut the doubters.
I saw a tweet showing the team he inherited. He has done a tremendous job imo. Many people talk about Tottenham'' quality squad. How many if those players were quality before he arrived?
He has taken that club as far as he can.
I saw a tweet showing the team he inherited. He has done a tremendous job imo. Many people talk about Tottenham'' quality squad. How many if those players were quality before he arrived?
He has taken that club as far as he can.
As somebody who likes Poch and loathes Klopp, you cannot compare the two. One is the only reason Bayern hasn't won 9 straight league titles with back-to-back league triumphs and has reached two CL finals with unfancied teams, while the other has reached some FA Cup semis, lost a LC final and finished ahead of some teams a few years in a row.
Trophies matter. Until Poch starts winning some comparing him to managers that have silverware in their CV in top competitions is silly.
Trophies matter. Until Poch starts winning some comparing him to managers that have silverware in their CV in top competitions is silly.
Levy has hung him out to dry this season. His transfer targets seemed very modest, Grealish etc and he didn't even get that.
Also, they were registered, it wouldn't matter if they actually play or notm they would be cup tied. But as said, that's not a thing anymore.
I don't even believe Grealish was a Poch target, I think that more of a Levy/club target.
No idea how you can get that conclusion when he has signed a very long contract. Pochettino's contract lasted till 2021 yet he felt the need to get a 5 year extension. He's staying at this club for a long while and that was his own choice. You can't commit to Spurs in the long term and then use spending as an excuse, Spurs don't spend a lot of money and Poch was wanted by big clubs ie Madrid.
Totally agree with this.
They didn't spend ANY money. Do you really think Poch expected Levy to do feck all this summer in the market when he penned that extension? His comments leading into the market and some of his reactions early this season to me say otherwise, he's just getting on with it for now, because there's nothing else he can do, same as Jose.
Comparing Klopp with Pochettino is downright silly. Klopp is yet to win something in England but he has won things in Germany. Pochettino is yet to prove himself. Finishing 2nd or 3rd doesn't earn you a trophy. Nor does winning vs Madrid in a group stage.
Best part is list of excuses trotted for him is endless. And more active in this are actually United fans which is strange.
Best part is list of excuses trotted for him is endless. And more active in this are actually United fans which is strange.
There are three options here.
1) Pochettino is an idiot for committing long term while not getting assurances
2) Pochettino knew that spending would be minimal and doesn't fancy moving to a big club that can spend money.
3) Pochettino has been tricked by Levy and has grounds for leaving the club
His old contract ended in 2021. The only reason he signed a 5 year extension is because he wants to stay at Spurs, and it's certainly not because he'll be able to spend money. The only one that has hung him out to dry is himself.
Poch does not need to fail.
Jose is a better manager, several levels above Poch, at this current time.
Simply look at the amount of trophies each have won over the last 2 years. Then go back 4 years and run the comparison. Even if we exclude Jose's CL trophies, he is still ahead.
I mean, Poch hasn't even won a single trophy, yet.
I doubt anybody who knows much about football would rate Poch ahead of Jose.
It's a silly comparison, right now.
Think 3 is most likely. Pochettino spoke about the need to invest before he signed that contract.
I really like Pochettino but he cannot be in the conversation of top managers until he starts winning trophies. I think he will when he moves to a big club. He will regret not joining Madrid. Contract or no contract he should have moved heaven and earth to leave for Madrid. I hope he didn't chicken out because that would show he doesn't have the right mentality.
What if he got assurances and Levy just didn't deliver? That's what I believe happened in this case.
Also I don't think committing long-term means very much. If he wants to move elsewhere it will happen. Maybe Tottenham will get some compensation out of it, but if a manager wants to leave it makes very little sense for a club to keep him.
I assume that Poch got an instant pay-rise when he extended his contract?
And when you consider that a 5 yr contract would give Poch financial/job security, especially if he has a family. It's a no-brainer: I'd have signed the contract, too.