Spent nothing like the other contenders did, According to many of you a Nd the press who is challenging for the title this season? Surprise surprise the very two teams that spend loads of money even on single transfers, Pool broke the record for a defender and for a Gk, don't get me started on City so, we didn't spend on the summer, the coach didn't get what he wanted, simple as that.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
It's strange. Because not so long ago he was an incredible manager with an amazing squad, many comparing it - in terms of quality - to ours. They had a better striker, better CBs, FBs, the midfield was more creative etc. And now none of that wild exaggeration matters because of the badge they wear...
As @SquishyMcSquish Poch has a few drawbacks but his main one is in game management, and it’s a pretty major one. He lacks severely the ability to see out a game or seemingly know what to do, maybe this is because his philosophy is always *to play football*. We seen it in all our defeats against Juve last season and this season against Watford and Milan. He needs to learn to be a lot more pragmatic if he is to start wining things. Also this season he is playing an absolute horrendous system that simply doesn’t suit the players we have, and even though it doesn’t seem to be working at all he’s sticking with it. I’m by no means saying Poch out btw.
Isn't this quite standard for Spurs under Poch? He doesn't stick with a proper 11 until the tail end of the season. Spurs have ridiculously good form in 2nd half of seasons, but because of slow starts they struggle to challenge.
He basically playing a 4-4-2 diamond formation, with Dembélé holding. I can’t for the life of me see why. Lucy’s is playing up front and looking good but it’s to the detrament of Kane, who is struggling with fatigue or form. The only game we played well in this season has been Fulham.
I will never cease to be amazed by United fans who say Poch is better than Jose. Shocking really.
Kane says he's not tired but I don't buy it, he was looking exhausted during the World Cup. I've not watched enough off Llorente to understand, but why has he struggled so much at spurs? I would have thought the way Trippear and Eriksen deliver a ball would have seen him go up a level from his Swansea form.
Your guess is as good as mine, he needs a rub if games to get into some sort of stride to be judged, Son could even stand in, Harry needs 2 weeks off minimum.
I dont think it would work, Woody has players he wants to keep as 'investments'. Pochettino gets free reign on his squad at Spurs, if he doesnt think you fit with the team you are gone, it's as simple as that. Janssen cost a pretty penny as far as Spurs are concerned, he was discarded, Llorente hardly gets a game. He was quite ruthless when he came to Spurs culling the squad. It's the same reason im dubious about him for a big club like RM, you cannot just ship out superstars because you dont think they fit your squad or are causing some backroom issues. You can with youth players which Poch likes to work with. It's much easier to move the manager on than get in a couple of new superstar players.
I agree, he is working with a squad that saw 0 investment because of all the stadium blowout costs. They needed investment, particularly in midfield. Dont buy Glastons sophistry for a second about how the money is already set aside for the stadium and Spurs have this supposed war chest waiting in the wings. Something like 9 of the starting 11 made it to the final stages of the CL had virtually no pre season and no rest. Has a relatively thin bench to lean on with some aging players who are becoming more injury prone like Wanyama and Dembele. He is still relying on Dembele to be that driving force in their midfield despite the injuries and decline, Wanyama has had a few knee injuries, lamela and Winks are both sick notes.
I still feel Poch is doing well with the resources he has personally, dont think he has enough pedigree yet for one of the big boys, but Spurs and him seem a good fit for the time being.
I agree with this, be interested to see a comparison with his stats from last season to this season as far as shots, distance covered, number of sprints, etc. Im sure big clubs have access to these sort of statistics they can pour over, 2 weeks off to reset his mind, not think about football, his game, etc and let his body relax would do him the world of good. His purple patch of form last season was insane so we all know what sort of levels he can hit.
As a united fan, we can hardly bash pochettino when spurs are above us and I highly doubt we would have beaten inter milan ourselves with the way we have been playing at the start of this new season.
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Who's he got rid of at Spurs? He's improved more of their 'flops' than sold them
In that first summer transfer window and the next after Poch took over he made sweeping changes, including ousting the club captain and star players like Adebayor because they didnt fit with his footballing philosophy. Adebayor was Spurs' equivalent of a big name player, Poch froze him out and I dont think he got a game until his contract expired. I think he ended up having to go train with the academy players or something.
Just look at the departures from Spurs over two seasons(14-15) - Sigurdsson, Sandro, Livermore, Naughton, Dawson, Fryers, Holtby, Falque, Obika, Gomes, Stewart, Lancaster, with 13 players loaned
(15-16) - Soldado, Townsend, Paulinho, Capoue, Stambouli, Chiriches, Holtby, Lennon, Kaboul, Velkjovic, Fredericks, Khumalo, Gomelt, Miles, Archer, Ceballos, Adebayor, Freidel, with 4 players loaned
He certainly has had players that havnt lived up to expectations, like every manager, here are Pochettino's signings for Spurs.
(14-15)Davies, Fazio, Alli, Stambouli, Vorm, Dier, Yedlin
(15-16)Son, Alderweireld, N'Jie, Wimmer, Trippier
(16-17)Sissoko, Janssen, Wanyama, N'Koudou, Lopez
(17-18)Sanchez, Moura, Aurier, Llorente, Foyth, Gazzaniga
From the footballing side of things at Spurs Pochetino is the decision maker and what he wants Levy accomodates to the best of his ability it would seem. Obviously there are a lot of financial constraints when buying players at Spurs, but it seems Levy leaves all the footballing decisions to Pochettino, his backroom staff and scouts. And concentrates on building the new stadium and the financial aspects of running the club.
That is vastly different to here where Woody has 'investment' players he will refuse to sell even if the head coach, at this point in time Jose, wants to move them on. Adebayor was Spurs' big signing and star player at the time. Pochettino came in and wanted him and the club captain gone, and they were sold. I just dont see a coach having that much say in the squad here, thus that whole media headline about 'no more quick fixes Jose' In response to him wanting to buy Alderweireld a 29 y/o CB.
@villain accused him of lacking motivation to win trophies. I think it's an unfair accusation. His decision to decide against forcing a move to Madrid is the only reason I can give for making that claim and we don't know the circumstances.
Might be unfair but I don’t think he has the character to take on the mantle of a job like United boss, especially since it looks like Jose will leave us in an undesirable position. His decision to stay with Spurs and sign a new contract suggests that he believes he can achieve succes there.
I’m not a Spurs fan but i’d suspect that that looks something like a Cup trophy, top 3 and the 1/4s in CL - at least two of those happening in the same season.
I think he’s comfortable at Spurs and there’s nothing wrong that, but there’s a considerable amount of difference in the pressure and scrutiny of that job, and ours.
If he were to get the job I’d obviously love to be proven wrong but I haven’t seen anything to suggest otherwise yet.
I would agree with this normally. But at the time he signed that contract, no top job was available or at least we can't be sure he was approached.
I do agree with the notion that if he's prepared to reject top clubs to stay at Spurs, it means he doesn't have the right mentality.
I don't really understand what he could be doing differently though? He's taken a fairly decent progression through clubs so far and he'll eventually go to a top club for his next stop. So basically by the time we know if he's good enough for United (by your wording) will be when he's at a club that we have no chance of getting him from?
He is still relatively young so I don't think it's fair to question his mentality, there has been many young managers go to big clubs to soon only to end up rally drivers.
Was his contract due for renewal at the time? I thought he still had a few years left on it.
Any manager that joins us after Mourinho has to win things within a relatively quick manner, whilst playing good football.
I don’t doubt that Poch has the ability to do that, but any time he’s come close to winning something he’s fallen short, and when the pressure is turned on Spurs they’ve lost their momentum.
Whether that’s because it’s Spurs, and lads, it’s Spurs. Or whether that’s a reflection of a manager who hasn’t got enough experience to turn his team into winners is a question that none of us can answer.
I’d just be more comfortable with a manager who has experience managing big personalities, a big club with huge expectations and has won cups or leagues, while playing good football.
If we got Poch then I suspect we’d have to wait at least 1 year (more realistically 2) while he builds his team before we can expect to challenge for the title, and I don’t think our fans are that patient, because at that point we’ll be approaching 6-8 years of no significant trophy wins.
Part of the draw of staying at a club like Spurs is he has complete control over the footballing side of the business. Granted he has to work with a very limited budget, but there is no dealing with 'investment' players, he gets to build the squad and cull the squad as he chooses. This would be a massive draw for a manager, apparently no-one is signed Poch hasnt signed off on. That is clearly not the case here where Woody has players he wants to keep regardless of what Jose wants. I recall reading an article on Poch and he really admired SAF, and his building a legacy at one club where he has complete control over the footballing side of the business.
So positives, complete control over a CL squad at Spurs from the footballing side of things, including ins and outs of players. Not a lot of pressure to deliver trophies, the fans seem quite content with top 4 finishes at the moment. Negatives, the only one that really springs to mind is budget, thin squad due to budget constraints.
As for his suitability for a top team, not for me, not yet. I feel he lacks the pedigree at the moment, that's not to say he wont be a viable option in the future, if he picks up a trophy or two with Spurs, gets some more experience under his belt I could see a lot of the big clubs wanting him. Prying him away from his Spurs project may prove to be difficult however, especially once the stadium is complete and he is getting some more backing in the xfer market.
I'm not arguing about their first 11, i was saying our squad is better than theirs. I agree that there is a case to say not many of our players would get into their first team but I think they are weak beyond that.
You can level criticism at any manager about signings being hit and miss but it's hard not to admire what Poch has done with less resources than the rest of the big 6.
How would he set up United to play, if he was to succeed Mourinho?
Playing-wise, he's the closest thing to Fergie as far as I can see. Even also plays two midfielders who just sits and controls, and leaves the creativity to the ones in front of them. Plays direct football with fullbacks involved.
A lot of managers would have to buy a whole new squad to suit their needs, but I feel Poch could maybe do quite alright with some of what we already have?
Playing-wise, he's the closest thing to Fergie as far as I can see. Even also plays two midfielders who just sits and controls, and leaves the creativity to the ones in front of them. Plays direct football with fullbacks involved.
A lot of managers would have to buy a whole new squad to suit their needs, but I feel Poch could maybe do quite alright with some of what we already have?
De Gea
Dalot - Smalling - Alderweireld - Shaw
Pogba - Matic
Sanchez - New AMC - Martial
Lukaku
He would maybe only need to sign two central defenders and a new central midfielder to make us compete.Dalot - Smalling - Alderweireld - Shaw
Pogba - Matic
Sanchez - New AMC - Martial
Lukaku
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The club will never allow that.
I don't think he would play with 12 players lol
Which part? Letting him go? I guess it'll be tough with such a long contract, but hey we're Manchester United - Every manager would probably be just a little bit enthusiastic about such an offer.
All part of his revolutionising tactics. Fixed now
All part of his revolutionising tactics. Fixed now
Looks a good team - would be interesting to know what he would do with players like Lukaku. I think he might prefer Martial as a striker, most of spurs players seem very good technically.
I think he likes physique (likes Alli too) and someone to be on the end of all of those crosses from the full-backs. So actually I think Lukaku could be well suited for that. But I'd say Kane moves a bit more around.
He'd probably be extremely frustrated with Sanchez as AMC like Eriksen - or Pogba at AMC, as there's too many touches or lost balls in the case of Sanchez.
Barring the 12 players on the field:
I am also of the opinion that of the managers out there Pochettino is the one that could make the best of our current squad and we would not need a complete squad overhaul, which we need if we go for an even more offensive manager. Not that Poch isnt offensive compared to Mourinho, but he is still relatively pragmatic. I also believe that the transfer from Mourinho football would be doable. And this is really fecking important. I am strongly against changing manager and at the same time get rid of half of the squad.
Its just fecking shite that Spurs will never agree to this even if he would want to himself.
And btw: all this he hasnt won anything yet blaha is just stupid IMO. Mourinho and LvG won a lot. Look how that turned out. ...
Completely agree. Can't think of any manager who would be more Manchester United in terms of style than Poch neither.
Well, it turned out with United winning 3 trophies in 4 years, which is exactly 3 more than Pochettino.
Fans in an absolute state aren't they. First are the facts. Forget developing players he isnt backroom staff. The fact is he has a better team than us apart from DDG and Pogba yet finished below United. He has a 30 goal season striker. He isnt a miracle worker. Why couldnt he make Jannsenn look any good? On top of that their playstyle is overrated. Most goals from set pieces last season. Not to mention the fact the man is cracking under media pressure at Spurs and people think he can handle United. A serious look maybe for a club like Valencia or Dortmund. Not United. And thats backed up by him nor winnng anything, throwing league cup games and his naivety not to change tactics against Juventus.
It's kind of ridiculous how much our fans can block out those successes when they're drooling over another coach.
I'd say it's more your post that's in a bit of a state … as in all over the place.
You say he doesn't develop players and cite Janssen. But you ignore Trippier, Kane, Alli, Rose, Dier, Davies, Winks and more - all of whom have improved under Pochettino. And see how Moura is now starting to flourish too.
You cite the one season (last season) that United finished above Spurs, yet ignore all the other seasons when you didn't since Pochettino arrived ... including this one so far.
You claim he's cracking under media pressure, when in reality there's little or no sign of that. The one who is cracking is Mourinho.
And you ignore the vast sums of money that United have spent since Pochettino arrived, in comparison the absolute shoe-string that Pochettino has had to make do with.
I think you must struggle to read. I literally said 'forget developing players' as for a club of Uniteds stature we shouldnt have to rely on that as we aren't a selling club. But the seeing as you're the fourth biggest club in London I can see why you do. In terms of squad yours is far superior. You talk about finishing above us before last season is that something you will put on a plaque and stick in that dusty tomb you call a trophy cabinet? Poch isnt a winner now and he never will be. And his interview last month was it after the inter game where he is already talking about the media disrespecting you even though you hardly get any media attention despite being in a major shambles this season and winning nothing the previous. United is the big time and he clearly cant handle the pressure.
Jose has spent more than Kloop in both gross and Net
Totally forgetting that United is a club that always have had huge successful periods when we had players who developed at the club AND under managers who liked/were successful at developing them.
Spurs do not have a squad. They have a 1st 11 and that's about it. We have far more internationals in our squad and proven players (cough Sanchez, cough Pogba) who have actually won things.
What are you talking about? We've always developed our own players. It's part of our heritage.
To a point that's true. Part of the problem though is quite a few players are injury prone. That's why not going into the transfer market was silly. Dembele has been unfortunate his whole career with problems but Alderweireld Rose, Wanyama, Lamela and Winks have missed large chunks of the last 18 months. When they're all fit the bench looks decent but you can't have half a team all having lengthy spells on the sidelines at the same time. They have a problem now with Eriksen and Alli.