A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[M16Red]

How do you not recognize what Poch has done at Spurs? Spurs were bang average before him. He turned them into regular top 4 contenders and while the trophy cabinet is empty, he did have a few deep cup runs including the CL final despite 0 signings in the summer of 2018.

They've finished in the top six for the last 10 years pal...

 

[Solius]

We’re in too good form at the moment for it to even be a discussion. If we were on a dodgy run I’d say the stars were aligning but also it would be a bit silly to ignore what has happened at Spurs. Maybe his star is fading.

 

[el3mel]

Get him in. Yeah he has problems with winning trophies, but he'll rebuild the squad, coach proper football, and develop young players. He'll do everything Ole may "try" to do but more successfully and can do even more. Will be madness to stick with Ole next season and let him go to Madrid or Bayern.

He might not win trophies here but he'll perfect for our current state.

 

[Allas8]

Just as a reminder, these where all Tottenham players when Pochettino took over. This great team building is mainly using what was already there, a very talented player base:

Lloris
Walker - Vertonghen - Kaboul - Rose
Dembele - Paulinho
Lamela - Eriksen - Townsend
Kane

Good job on the Son signing though, I guess.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Just as a reminder, these where all Tottenham players when Pochettino took over. This great team building is mainly using what was already there, a very talented player base:

Lloris
Walker - Vertonghen - Kaboul - Rose
Dembele - Paulinho
Lamela - Eriksen - Townsend
Kane

Good job on the Son signing though, I guess.

That wasnt the starting 11 when he took over though was it? The squad was in a mess, any Spurs fan will tell you that.

 

[TheReligion]

He's available, he's United bound odds on.

Is he available though?

When this usually happens departing managers will have an agreement in place that makes sure they don't manage until end of the season etc.

 

[Champagne Football]

The money would be for him to take the Bayern job and win endless trophies in his sleep there, which would certainly silence the doubters who harp on about him not winning anything.

 

[Majima]

The money would be for him to take the Bayern job and win endless trophies in his sleep there, which would certainly silence the doubters who harp on about him not winning anything.

No winner gives a damn about what the doubters say but if I was him, I'd choose Bayern over us hands down. Their board are also winners and want to win, unlike the Yank chumps running us who couldn't care less. No contest really.

 

[Champagne Football]

No winner gives a damn about what the doubters say but if I was him, I'd choose Bayern over us hands down. Their board are also winners and want to win, unlike the Yank chumps running us who couldn't care less. No contest really.

Bayern for sure will get on their hands and knees and beg, like they did for Pep. Bayern know a thoroughbred when they see one.

That's the problem with our owners. They have no issues spending the cash, but they don't know a thoroughbred when they see one, and have given vast fortunes to the wrong managers. Ole has done enough to be given more time though despite a rocky season, with the huge success of Ole's 3 summer signings, I think the board will continue to back him and see what happens.

 

[VP89]

Bayern for sure will get on their hands and knees and beg, like they did for Pep. Bayern know a thoroughbred when they see one.

That's the problem with our owners. They have no issues spending the cash, but they don't know a thoroughbred when they see one, and have given vast fortunes to the wrong managers. Ole has done enough to be given more time though despite a rocky season, with the huge success of Ole's 3 summer signings, I think the board will continue to back him and see what happens.

Bayern have made it clear they wanted a German speaking coach, for what it's worth.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

I genuinely, genuinely, can’t work out if Pochettino is over-achieving or under-achieving with this squad.

People talk about how much his squad cost, but what about value? People don’t seem to take that into account much.

Kane, for example, is probably a £200m player in this market. One of the best in the world. They’d never replace him.

At various stages: Lloris, Walker, Rose, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Kane is some base. Technically I don’t think he signed any of those players and as for development players progress naturally anyway. The coach is more about combining them in a team.

I still think this is relevant. A perfect storm of a number of World Class players reaching their peak together.

Maybe now there are signs of decline and it’s showing Pochettino’s limitations. I’ve never really thought his achievements were subject to any rigorous examination, just a reflexive impression it was all down to him.

 

[Majima]

Bayern for sure will get on their hands and knees and beg, like they did for Pep. Bayern know a thoroughbred when they see one.

That's the problem with our owners. They have no issues spending the cash, but they don't know a thoroughbred when they see one, and have given vast fortunes to the wrong managers. Ole has done enough to be given more time though despite a rocky season, with the huge success of Ole's 3 summer signings, I think the board will continue to back him and see what happens.

Yeah I do expect Bayern to come calling. Regardless of what they might have said in the past, they're no fools to pass him up.

Our owners/Woody spent too much time with the wrong managers, waiting for the inevitable to happen. From Moyes, to LVG & Mourinho, they all long overstayed their welcome here whilst the board sat on their hands. That's my biggest frustration with them. I'm expecting the same to happen with Ole. Not because they believe in him, but because they haven't got a clue what they're doing. Personally I don't think he's done enough to earn our trust. The results & performances simply haven't been good enough for my standards. You might think the board will continue to back him, (which going by the past, i agree), but taking his period here into account, would you continue to back Ole, potentially losing Poch too?

It's not easy to make big decisions but i really would sack him on the spot to get someone like Poch in, if he was properly interested & motivated etc. It wasn't long ago don't forget that Levy was apparently asking for £50m+ to let Poch go.

 

[ivaldo]

How do you not recognize what Poch has done at Spurs? Spurs were bang average before him. He turned them into regular top 4 contenders and while the trophy cabinet is empty, he did have a few deep cup runs including the CL final despite 0 signings in the summer of 2018.

Spurs finished 4th and 5th four times out of the previous 5 seasons. Even the season where AVB got relegated they came 6th, with Sherwood finishing up the season with top 4 form. This notion that he single handedly took them from obscurity to relevancy is a bit of a fallacy. Let's not forget the successful transfers were a product of Levy and the scouting network, and not Poch - the man's said so much himself. The budget might well have been modest, but the signings were incredibly savvy. If Eriksen, for example, cost them £50m more it doesn't somehow make him a better player.

 

[Steerpike]

I'm surprised at the speed of events with Spurs and Poch parting ways. I've no doubt the calls here on the cafe for Poch to replace Ole will be deafening, despite the fact that Spurs look set to replace Poch with someone most of us couldn't get rid of quickly enough (myself included), and despite the fact Spurs have won f-all under Poch.

Poch isn't the answer (he may not even want the job!). Be careful what you wish for!

 

[el3mel]

I'm surprised at the speed of events with Spurs and Poch parting ways. I've no doubt the calls here on the cafe for Poch to replace Ole will be deafening, despite the fact that Spurs look set to replace Poch with someone most of us couldn't get rid of quickly enough (myself included), and despite the fact Spurs have won f-all under Poch.

Poch isn't the answer (he may not even want the job!). Be careful what you wish for!

Why isn't he? On the contrary, pretty much perfect for our current. Rebuilding the squad, developing young players and coaching a proper style of football. He's checks the boxes in all these. Winning trophies is an issue but he might improve this aspect, still only 47 or so.

I criticized him a lot previously and he's not perfect man but looking at our current position, he's better for us than Allegri.

 

[PoTMS]

I'm surprised at the speed of events with Spurs and Poch parting ways. I've no doubt the calls here on the cafe for Poch to replace Ole will be deafening, despite the fact that Spurs look set to replace Poch with someone most of us couldn't get rid of quickly enough (myself included), and despite the fact Spurs have won f-all under Poch.

Poch isn't the answer (he may not even want the job!). Be careful what you wish for!

Worst case, we sign Poch who doesn't work out. What have we lost exactly? It's not exactly like Ole is currently pulling up any trees.

 

[duffer]

Bayern bound?

 

[Steerpike]

Why isn't he? On the contrary, pretty much perfect for our current. Rebuilding the squad, developing young players and coaching a proper style of football. He's checks the boxes in all these. Winning trophies is an issue but he might improve this aspect, still only 47 or so.

I criticized him a lot previously and he's not perfect man but looking at our current position, he's better for us than Allegri.

Ole has attracted criticism, understandably, but the one area where he has certainly been a success is in the transfer market - both incomings and outgoings. If you are focusing on rebuilding the squad, Ole has done a decent job to date (in contrast with his 3 predecessors). I've seen no evidence that Poch would have done a better job.

The arguments in favour of Poch would be in his coaching of players - most people would agree that he has improved the players in his teams - and perhaps tactical - there's not much to suggest that Poch is a master in this field, but I accept that Ole at times looks naive.

I sincerely hope that Allegri is not even in the picture.

 

[Steerpike]

Worst case, we sign Poch who doesn't work out. What have we lost exactly? It's not exactly like Ole is currently pulling up any trees.

It's not a question of Ole pulling up trees, it's a question of whether his replacement would pull up any more trees. I'm absolutely sure that, were it not for recent history, there would be loads of people on here saying 'sack Ole, bring in Jose', presumably on the basis that 'It's not exactly like Ole is currently pulling up any trees'.

 

[el3mel]

Ole has attracted criticism, understandably, but the one area where he has certainly been a success is in the transfer market - both incomings and outgoings. If you are focusing on rebuilding the squad, Ole has done a decent job to date (in contrast with his 3 predecessors). I've seen no evidence that Poch would have done a better job.

The arguments in favour of Poch would be in his coaching of players - most people would agree that he has improved the players in his teams - and perhaps tactical - there's not much to suggest that Poch is a master in this field, but I accept that Ole at times looks naive.

I sincerely hope that Allegri is not even in the picture.

Where is that rebuilding Ole has did? We have a far worse squad now with less options than what he actually inherited. Improved defensively but our attack and midfield have become fully dependent on 2 or 3 players to be fully fit to be any sort of competitive or otherwise we will be fecked. One injury to Martial and Scott and we can kiss our midfield and attack a goodbye.

 

[charlenefan]

Just as a reminder, these where all Tottenham players when Pochettino took over. This great team building is mainly using what was already there, a very talented player base:

Lloris
Walker - Vertonghen - Kaboul - Rose
Dembele - Paulinho
Lamela - Eriksen - Townsend
Kane

Good job on the Son signing though, I guess.

They may have all been Spurs players but the below shows who he actually had to work with

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/now-maurico-pochettinos-first-tottenham-xi-compared-now/

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Spurs finished 4th and 5th four times out of the previous 5 seasons. Even the season where AVB got relegated they came 6th, with Sherwood finishing up the season with top 4 form. This notion that he single handedly took them from obscurity to relevancy is a bit of a fallacy. Let's not forget the successful transfers were a product of Levy and the scouting network, and not Poch - the man's said so much himself. The budget might well have been modest, but the signings were incredibly savvy. If Eriksen, for example, cost them £50m more it doesn't somehow make him a better player.

Precisely!

It’s bizarre to see where quite a lot of posters seem to think Spurs came from and the extent to which Pochettino improved them.

 

[Jimmy Skitz]

Not sure I agree with this. Craig Shakespeare managed to secure a 14th place end to the season. Fine that Leicester were struggling, but somehow I feel they would have avoided relegation regardless. Claude Puel returned Leicester to a middle-pack team.

It's easy to say they were correct NOW in hindsight after they are having a good start to the season. But nevertheless. Rainieri deserves a statue of himself outside of King Power Stadium for guiding the team to the biggest league title upset in modern football.

How you figure it was the right decision? Unless they foresaw that Rodgers would be available 3 years down the line?

You are both wrong, we, Leicester, would have gotten relegated had we not sacked Claudio

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Why isn't he? On the contrary, pretty much perfect for our current. Rebuilding the squad, developing young players and coaching a proper style of football. He's checks the boxes in all these. Winning trophies is an issue but he might improve this aspect, still only 47 or so.

I criticized him a lot previously and he's not perfect man but looking at our current position, he's better for us than Allegri.

Except there is no actual evidence he was singularity responsible for any of those things.

Correlation is not causation.

 

[Steerpike]

Where is that rebuilding Ole has did? We have a far worse squad now with less options than what he actually inherited. Improved defensively but our attack and midfield have become fully dependent on 2 or 3 players to be fully fit to be any sort of competitive or otherwise we will be fecked. One injury to Martial and Scott and we can kiss our midfield and attack a goodbye.

In a single transfer window, we've signed 3 players all of who have been successful thus far (I'd struggle to identify 3 successful signings in the preceding 6 years!). We've offloaded, temporarily or permanently, several players who weren't of a calibre to play for us in the longer term, some of whom were on high wages. There was a failure to line up replacements, possibly predicated on an over-confidence in players coming through the ranks, but I can accept that in what was always going to be a period of transition.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Espanyol. Like Ole's first job with Cardiff. But somehow Pochfans like to ignore this.

Not saying that he is bad manager. Just presenting facts.

The difference between Poch and Ole is when Poch took over Español they were rock bottom and he managed to secure a midtable finish for them, whereas Ole went down. Pochs' second season he had them mid table again which for a team like Español is like winning the lottery because they're nearly always flirting with relegation.

The reason he was sacked was because he wasn't given the funds to help build a team to consolidate their position in la liga. It doesn't matter how good a manager you are. If you can't bring in better players than what you have then you're doomed. Just presenting facts.

 

[el3mel]

In a single transfer window, we've signed 3 players all of who have been successful thus far (I'd struggle to identify 3 successful signings in the preceding 6 years!). We've offloaded, temporarily or permanently, several players who weren't of a calibre to play for us in the longer term, some of whom were on high wages. There was a failure to line up replacements, possibly predicated on an over-confidence in players coming through the ranks, but I can accept that in what was always going to be a period of transition.

This transfer window fixed the defense but made the rest of the squad actually. I doubt anyone will think the current squad after the last window is actually in any way stronger than the squad of the previous 2 seasons so I don't get that great rebuilding project Ole has done.

More so I actually think his management of the transfer window was poor. Prioritizing the defense and putting the majority of budget in it while his midfield and attack were screaming in need of some players.

 

[adexkola]

You are both wrong, we, Leicester, would have gotten relegated had we not sacked Claudio

Tell me more Nostradamus

I don't know how anyone can have so much certainty about how a season will end. Ditto for those who thought Mourinho was going to relegate Chelsea that season, or think Ole has a good chance of relegating United.

 

[Steerpike]

This transfer window fixed the defense but made the rest of the squad actually. I doubt anyone will think the current squad after the last window is actually in any way stronger than the squad of the previous 2 seasons so I don't get that great rebuilding project Ole has done.

More so I actually think his management of the transfer window was poor. Prioritizing the defense and putting the majority of budget in it while his midfield and attack were screaming in need of some players.

I absolutely acknowledge the need to strengthen in forward areas, but I still feel that a record of 3 good signings (out of 3), and the excision of a number of players who were not the future, represents good business. I don't believe Poch would have done any better.

 

[el3mel]

I absolutely acknowledge the need to strengthen in forward areas, but I still feel that a record of 3 good signings (out of 3), and the excision of a number of players who were not the future, represents good business. I don't believe Poch would have done any better.

He wouldn't have done any worse either. My point is everthing Ole might do or try to do, Poch is capable of doing it imo and maybe even more.

 

[Castia]

Really don't understand the fixation with Poch he's reach two finals and lost both of them, people say he's a good coach but he's had fives years at tot and what has he actually achieved?

Who has he coached to a good level? Keane well he's a striker and his positioning is a natural instinct, Son maybe? Who else? Ali? Rose? I really don't get it... I've watched them a couple of times and frankly they look lost.

Sometimes he comes across like a right bellend.

He took a struggling club and made them competitive on a non-existent budget. The players you mention like Kane and Ali we’re nowhere near their current level, one had been on various failed loans whilst the other was signed for peanuts from MK Dons. Most of the squad he’s brought on leaps and bounds, he had Alderweirald on loan from Ath Madrid at Southampton it wasn’t like he was handed a top CB at the time he’s constantly helping players improve.

They have no right being in any final, he’s massively overachieved.

 

[Steerpike]

He wouldn't have done any worse either. My point is everthing Ole might do or try to do, Poch is capable of doing it imo and maybe even more.

So, without the benefit of history/hindsight, which of Poch or Jose would represent the best replacement for Ole? You could make a case for either, but I just have a feeling that sticking with Ole would be a better decision. I believe Poch would have done worse in the transfer market, probably due to having all sorts of demands before even taking the United job (still true).

I'm reluctant to replace the manager of the 7th best team in the league with the manager of the 14th best team in the league, even though most of us think Spurs have a better squad than we do (as they did last year, even before we sacked Jose).

 

[passing-wind]

Chuck Ole out the door get Poch. He was always the destined target when Mourinho got the boot.

 

[Dinghy]

He wouldn't have done any worse either. My point is everthing Ole might do or try to do, Poch is capable of doing it imo and maybe even more.

Except beating good teams away (top 6), which Ole has already done more times than Pochettino. That's a sign of a tactically inept manager as he's had a strong squad to work with, and his style of football really isn't all that.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Except beating good teams away (top 6), which Ole has already done more times than Pochettino. That's a sign of a tactically inept manager as he's had a strong squad to work with, and his style of football really isn't all that.

Yeah, Pochettino had something like 7% win rate against the top 6 in away games.

 

[el3mel]

So, without the benefit of history/hindsight, which of Poch or Jose would represent the best replacement for Ole? You could make a case for either, but I just have a feeling that sticking with Ole would be a better decision. I believe Poch would have done worse in the transfer market, probably due to having all sorts of demands before even taking the United job (still true).

I'm reluctant to replace the manager of the 7th best team in the league with the manager of the 14th best team in the league, even though most of us think Spurs have a better squad than we do (as they did last year, even before we sacked Jose).

It's your opinion of course if you prefer to stick with Ole but for sticking with him next season and letting a valuable candidate as Poch run away from our hands will end in tears few years from now on. He's perfect to out current position. He has his problems but his strong points are everything we need right now. Honestly for me the entire Ole reign is just a waste of everyone time seeking a dream of an ex player returning us to the glory. We might disagree but it's my opinion and I respect yours in that regard.

I don't get the idea about comparing the current league position only though. He had a meltdown at Spurs and got sacked, it doesn't negate him finishing regularly in top 2 and 3 the previous 4 seasons. Also as has been pointed out multiple times, Liverpool took the same risk with appointing Klopp even though his last season with BvB was as crap as Poch's last one. Looking at the big picture is what matters.

 

[Beachryan]

I don't get the Caf sometimes. There's some obscure winger playing in the Dutch second division- get the lad in.

There's a coach who has been a success everywhere including the Prem, delivering out performance constantly while improving youth? Nah mate don't want him.

The choice between Ole and Poch is like choosing Anderson over Essien because he's nice. Poch is demonstrably better at managing a football team than Ole.

So ffs get him in. We're terrible.

 

[Champagne Football]

You can bet your lady dollar that Levy will have made Pochettino sign a deal as part of the severance, stating he can not sign for another PL rival for a year or something.

Pochettino won't be coming here anytime soon.

 

[JMack1234]

Thanks for the memories Ole.....

 

[Beachryan]

Except beating good teams away (top 6), which Ole has already done more times than Pochettino. That's a sign of a tactically inept manager as he's had a strong squad to work with, and his style of football really isn't all that.

Mate, please do compare Pochs premier league record to Oles.