Sign him up ASAP - he's a world class manager, and I can't even believe what's being written on the caf today with regards to Ole vs Poch. It's like we want to remain mired in this boring mediocrity for what, years more? A decade? We need a young manager capable of bringing trophies and Poch fits the bill whereas Ole has zero credentials besides relegating cardiff city.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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Those are different groups I reckon. Poch supporters are downplaying Spurs as a club to lift up Poch's achievements as a regular 3-4 place finisher as a major achievement while others are pointing out Spurs were still consistently a top 6 club before Poch. Taking them from 4-5th finishers to 3-4th finishers while laudable is hardly the stuff of legends. In fact you can argue Spurs rise to a consistent top 4 club might have more to do with Arsenal and United's decline as a top 4 club than with Poch over performing massively.
So your ultimately making an assertion that Solskjaer is a better manager than Poch on the basis that Poch having qualified for Europe in the last four seasons and reaching a UCL final is not good enough to lead us forward because of a 12 month period ? But Solskjaer having only experianced relegation in the English league, is a good appointment towards success because of romanticism and deluded blind faith that he was a successful player which automatically makes him a successful manager
Also you highlight a better team, isit not Poch who built the foundation of this current spurs side ? Or is that another anomaly which has no accreditation to the fact that Spurs have been skint the last 5 seasons, further emphasising the influence of Mauricio's coaching ?
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10% win record? Shockingly bad.
You also contradict yourself by talking about simplicity, is it not a flawed argument to suggest that because Poch struggled this season with a better squad he's destined to fail at another club irrespective so long as the team is less imposing on paper ? Have you not considered that football is as much a psychological game in comparison to a physical one ? That there are likely factors off the field that have effected the teams mentality. The problem with any idiot trying to rationalize Ole over Poch, is you have develop sudden Amnesia to only consider Poch struggles in the last few months compared to objectivity of his overall tenure at Tottenham. It's a thesis based on foolishness, let's all get amnesia and hire Chris Wilder because he's outperformed Ole / Poch over a 90 day period.
Poch barely qualified for Europe, and Ole has managed to get more points than Poch ever since he was appointed. Poch has been struggling since the start of last season, not just 12 months. Poch reached a final, that he did not win, after having a terrible record in the previous CL competitions. Ole reached a QF on his first try. In the end, Poch has won nothing in his career. Ole has. And no, I don't expect either of them to lead us anywhere, but I don't want to trade our current manager for one that is not much better, and has plenty of uncertainty about him.
Yet again, you keep bringing up his one failed job at Cardiff, when it was already going down as if that proves something. Poch was sacked in Spain, and has now been sacked again. And guess what, he has now been sacked more times than Ole, and achieved even less than him.
is a good appointment towards success because of romanticism and deluded blind faith that he was a successful player which automatically makes him a successful manager
This has nothing to do with blind faith, but the fact that he is a decent manager. Unlike you I do not only count his one stint at Cardiff as everything, and ignore his record and work at Molde and the fact that since he was appointed he has done about on par as Poch who you delude yourself is that much better and make everything better when there is barely any difference so far. The difference is I am not as blindly biased against Ole as you are, and do not blindly worship Poch as some miracle worker .
It's honestly staggering why Ole in crowd deliberately ignore the last 4 seasons results and what Poch's qualities overall as a manager while focusing entirely on the current season when people ask to appoint him as if they have nothing else to keep Ole in job instead of bringing him in. Poch has a recent track record of success and finishing high up in PL for the last 5 seasons. What's Ole track record? Managing in Norway?
No, it is not contradictory, nor is it simple. Poch will struggle with this squad, anyone would, there is barely any depth in midfield and attack. Even if he takes over, we will struggle until we get some quality in.
Have you ?? Why has the teams mentality been fragile, why do they look so clueless and dispirited. Could it be the manager himself, who says trophies are not important, or that he would have left if they had achieved some success.
The problem with biased and deluded morons is that they always only look at things in a perspective that suits their delusions. They ignore facts that do not support their arguments, or downplay it. Then overinflate or give too much importance to things that support it. It is a thesis based on ignorance and ego, let us spout nonsense and keep repeating it until it feels like truth, and ignore other things when they prove you wrong.
Poch barely qualified for Europe, and Ole has managed to get more points than Poch ever since he was appointed. Poch has been struggling since the start of last season, not just 12 months. Poch reached a final, that he did not win, after having a terrible record in the previous CL competitions. Ole reached a QF on his first try. In the end, Poch has won nothing in his career. Ole has. And no, I don't expect either of them to lead us anywhere, but I don't want to trade our current manager for one that is not much better, and has plenty of uncertainty about him.
Yet again, you keep bringing up his one failed job at Cardiff, when it was already going down as if that proves something. Poch was sacked in Spain, and has now been sacked again. And guess what, he has now been sacked more times than Ole, and achieved even less than him.
This has nothing to do with blind faith, but the fact that he is a decent manager. Unlike you I do not only count his one stint at Cardiff as everything, and ignore his record and work at Molde and the fact that since he was appointed he has done about on par as Poch who you delude yourself is that much better and make everything better when there is barely any difference so far. The difference is I am not as blindly biased against Ole as you are, and do not blindly worship Poch as some miracle worker .
This is your issue mate, you cannot fathom any perspective outside the relativity of Solskjaer's time. This isn't Solskjaer United it's Manchester United, for the last three decades we have had the best manager to grace the game direct us into success and fans like you seem to think that we have the right to wave a wand and success will come our way.
Let's just look at the facts, Poch in five years has achieved four european qualification finishes as well as a UCL final with a £29 million NET spend. You are otherwise saying that Ole winning the league with Molde outweighs these contributions. My argument to you is that Poch has manifestation of his success in the English league, Solskjaer doesn't. I couldn't care less for Poch being sacked in Spain, Manchester United is a British commodity we have absolutely zero correspondence to Espanyol likewise to Molde. If your aforementioned judgement is that Poch being sacked in Spain is relevant to his managerial capabilities, then Fenway Group might as well have just hung up on Klopp.
Only region of importance is England, Solskjaer has managed in the English league and has been relegated and finished 6th that's the bottom line, that's what he contributes to us as a football club it's his most relevant accomplishment. If I beat the best top score in the entire UK in go-cart racing does it make me eligible to be in contention for the Formula 1 ? There's considerate levels between Norwegian football and English football.
As the biggest club in the English league let's just hire the managers who win the MLS, Veikkausliiga, Belgian Pro League or Prva HNL. Might as well chip in with a few of their players too.
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you've not really given me a platform to form a debate over, sounds like your arguing with yourself pal. I understand you'll support Ole through an through, five years time my prediction is Ole will be somewhere doing what he does best, flying below the radar. If Bayern, Madrid or another big club get Poch I reckon he'll be a success based on the fact he spent 29 million a year and got four champions league finishes as well as a UCL final.What a load of feckery. Lets see what Woodward decides to do but I would be surprised if he jettisons Ole for a world class manager sacked before Xmas, a world class manager who has never won a major trophy. Probably not the best time to push all your chips in.
Yeah that was a bit smartassy, my bad
Losing the dressing room is fair enough but they had too much quality to go down, despite the rut they were in.
And your issue seems to be how blatantly ignorant you seem to be about the hypocrisy you spout. You are right, this is Manchester United, and that means supporting the club and the manger through thick and thin. It is hilarious you miss the irony that you mention SAF, who also struggled initially and many wanted him out just like you do with Ole now, without being given a chance to make changes and time to install his own identity to the club. I do not expect success to be instant or even a given, and that is why I am willing to stick with Ole as unlike you I do see improvement in players, and a solid spine being built irrespective of results. Once again, you show ignorance that you hold only one limited perspective and bias by repeating the same crap over and over again, but ignore everything else.
You once again show your bias that I talked about, over inflating Poch's 'success' and downplaying everything else. Getting european qualification for a top six club, that were within distance of said qualification is not an impressive 'achievement', especially when other clubs were mismaged and going through period of upheavals themselves. It was a very good job he did, but nothing amazing or exceptional or impossible.
Also, the scouting and signings that played a key to that were mostly already at the club when Poch arrived, and he has also said that he plays no part in that area of the club. The credit to that should be given to Spurs structure, rather than Pochettino.
I am saying that Ole winning the league with Molde is not something that can, or should be ignored just to support the lie that he is some kind of fraud, or is clueless, like some ignorant idiots like to keep repeating, nor should Pochettino's 'achievements' be over inflated as if he did an impossible job alone with a squad fit for relegation.
Except he does not, and that is where your argument falls off. He has not achieved anything in the PL yet. The amount that he has achieved is the same as Ole, and that is absolutely feck all.
So, ignore things that go against your arguments and show your bias. K, got it.
Well, now he is sacked from Spurs, a British commodity, so we do have correspondence there.
Also, of course that is such a stupid argument, as that would mean that we should always sign managers from our league and not give chances to managers that have never managed in the league. By your logic, we should pass on a Pep or a Klopp if a chance to sign someone of their caliber comes, as they have not ever managed in the PL.
FFS, it is like you are completely unaware of the stuff that you come up with.
You, and people like you are the ones stuck up on the Cardiff stuff about Ole. When someone points out that this happened with Poch as well, then you go and bring some other stupid argument that I did not even make. The point was that being sacked at Cardiff, which was a sinking ship before he even took that job, should not be held against him just like Poch being sacked at Espanyol should not, and is not held against him. Getting stacked is a part and parcel of football, especially the modern game. There are probably only a handful of coaches who have not been sacked in their career so far. Basically, that failure in the past should not be used as some kind of stick to beat them with.
And once again, this stupid nonsense.
And only looking at the bottom line is how you are making a mess of your arguments. By you own logic, on one hand you say look at the bottom line. The bottom line is Ole is higher on the table than Poch with a worse squad, and you want to sack him for a manager who, again by your logic, is worse, because as you say, that is the bottom line.
You simplify everything to suit your agenda, and ignore everything that goes against it, and end up spouting some really stupid stuff.
Once again, where do you come up with these stupid arguments. You say nothing outside of PL matters, and yet bring go cart and F1 into this ??
Sure, if they have the talent for it and have done work that suggest they are capable of doing the job. Once again, that requires actually looking at things with a clear and open mind, without any bias and arrogance, and looking at things in depth which you clearly seem incapable of doing. With your mindset, Pep would never have been given a chance at Barcelona, and Klopp would not have been hired at Dortmund, and SAF would have been sacked as well before having a chance to build.
I don't have to give you anything, it is not my problem that your arguments are a mess, and fail to have a decent platform to give your perspective when you are so clearly biased and one sided in your arguments and opinions. I will support the manager, whoever that is, and while the results are not great it is still not as bad as some want it to be. As for your predictions, they are as useless and baseless as most of your posts have been.
Ole shouldn't be sacked immediately just because of Poch being available but it's genuinely incredible that people can actually argue on their records. Of course past history doesn't mean anything for the future but here's a simple fact that some people ignore - OGS is the Manchester United manager only and only because he played for the club , there is no other explanation for it . Pochettino on the other hand would have earned it through his work as a manager
Again I don't really think that we should sack Ole bęcause of Poch but we should have sacked him already anyway. Pochettino got sacked for having 14 points in 12 games 5 months after a Cl final while Ole is still in the job with 16 in 12 games and a disaster end to the season
Again I don't really think that we should sack Ole bęcause of Poch but we should have sacked him already anyway. Pochettino got sacked for having 14 points in 12 games 5 months after a Cl final while Ole is still in the job with 16 in 12 games and a disaster end to the season
The amount of posters who get irrationally defensive when people claim OgS is trading off goodwill he earned as a player is hilarious.
I agree with your post 100%, OgS’s position shouldn’t be sacked ‘because of’ Poch’s availability - he simply shouldn’t be in the position in the first place.
Very odd post.
You seem rather conflicted.
He would have earned it but we didn't go for him and he signed a long term contract at Spurs and then said he'd quit if they won the UCL where he didn't play Lucas Moura, said he wasn't involved in transfers, bought a crock in Sessegnon, sent out Jack Clarke on loan( who has hardly played), lost the dressing room, lost at Colchester, couldn't be arsed with domestic cup competitions. Plus there are are a whole lot of other reasons
Yet you believe that earns a shot at Utd. Brilliant!
Poch to Arsenal...you heard it here first.
Would love Poch but I'm afraid we are stuck with Ole.
What am I reading?
So should Liverpool never have appointed Klopp after his bad season at Dortmund?
So should Liverpool never have appointed Klopp after his bad season at Dortmund?
Didn't Spurs finish 2nd ahead of City and Co? That's not nothing mate. Also the Molde achievement are irrelevant as no Molde manager or champs of Norweigian league go on to do anything great in football unless I am mistaken. It's low level. Since being sacked in Spain, every team Poch has gone to has improved (Saints Spurs). Since Cardiff sacking Ole went back to Molde and did not win again and also managed United youths. Now Molde are on course to win the league now he's gone. The track records are incomparable.And your issue seems to be how blatantly ignorant you seem to be about the hypocrisy you spout. You are right, this is Manchester United, and that means supporting the club and the manger through thick and thin. It is hilarious you miss the irony that you mention SAF, who also struggled initially and many wanted him out just like you do with Ole now, without being given a chance to make changes and time to install his own identity to the club. I do not expect success to be instant or even a given, and that is why I am willing to stick with Ole as unlike you I do see improvement in players, and a solid spine being built irrespective of results. Once again, you show ignorance that you hold only one limited perspective and bias by repeating the same crap over and over again, but ignore everything else.
You once again show your bias that I talked about, over inflating Poch's 'success' and downplaying everything else. Getting european qualification for a top six club, that were within distance of said qualification is not an impressive 'achievement', especially when other clubs were mismaged and going through period of upheavals themselves. It was a very good job he did, but nothing amazing or exceptional or impossible.
Also, the scouting and signings that played a key to that were mostly already at the club when Poch arrived, and he has also said that he plays no part in that area of the club. The credit to that should be given to Spurs structure, rather than Pochettino.
I am saying that Ole winning the league with Molde is not something that can, or should be ignored just to support the lie that he is some kind of fraud, or is clueless, like some ignorant idiots like to keep repeating, nor should Pochettino's 'achievements' be over inflated as if he did an impossible job alone with a squad fit for relegation.
Except he does not, and that is where your argument falls off. He has not achieved anything in the PL yet. The amount that he has achieved is the same as Ole, and that is absolutely feck all.
So, ignore things that go against your arguments and show your bias. K, got it.
Well, now he is sacked from Spurs, a British commodity, so we do have correspondence there.
Also, of course that is such a stupid argument, as that would mean that we should always sign managers from our league and not give chances to managers that have never managed in the league. By your logic, we should pass on a Pep or a Klopp if a chance to sign someone of their caliber comes, as they have not ever managed in the PL.
FFS, it is like you are completely unaware of the stuff that you come up with.
You, and people like you are the ones stuck up on the Cardiff stuff about Ole. When someone points out that this happened with Poch as well, then you go and bring some other stupid argument that I did not even make. The point was that being sacked at Cardiff, which was a sinking ship before he even took that job, should not be held against him just like Poch being sacked at Espanyol should not, and is not held against him. Getting stacked is a part and parcel of football, especially the modern game. There are probably only a handful of coaches who have not been sacked in their career so far. Basically, that failure in the past should not be used as some kind of stick to beat them with.
And once again, this stupid nonsense.
And only looking at the bottom line is how you are making a mess of your arguments. By you own logic, on one hand you say look at the bottom line. The bottom line is Ole is higher on the table than Poch with a worse squad, and you want to sack him for a manager who, again by your logic, is worse, because as you say, that is the bottom line.
You simplify everything to suit your agenda, and ignore everything that goes against it, and end up spouting some really stupid stuff.
Once again, where do you come up with these stupid arguments. You say nothing outside of PL matters, and yet bring go cart and F1 into this ??
Sure, if they have the talent for it and have done work that suggest they are capable of doing the job. Once again, that requires actually looking at things with a clear and open mind, without any bias and arrogance, and looking at things in depth which you clearly seem incapable of doing. With your mindset, Pep would never have been given a chance at Barcelona, and Klopp would not have been hired at Dortmund, and SAF would have been sacked as well before having a chance to build.
I don't have to give you anything, it is not my problem that your arguments are a mess, and fail to have a decent platform to give your perspective when you are so clearly biased and one sided in your arguments and opinions. I will support the manager, whoever that is, and while the results are not great it is still not as bad as some want it to be. As for your predictions, they are as useless and baseless as most of your posts have been.
It's one thing debating - that's what a forum is for, but why are you guys so aggressive spouting fecking football opinions, ffs?
Calling people names, or grouping people together and calling them clueless or morons doesn't give your opinions any more validity.
Calling people names, or grouping people together and calling them clueless or morons doesn't give your opinions any more validity.
Poch to Bayern makes the most sense. They're in need of a quality manager and also aren't afraid of taking swift decisions to remedy their problems.
The state of this post. Do you write romantic fanfiction that you send to Poch on a regular basis?
People saying Pochettino is overrated or never won anything with Spurs are missing the point. The big clubs seem to think otherwise, & it will be no surprise him taking over one in near future, yet he is not good enough to be Man Utd manager & we should stay with the great Ole.
Daddy want
Thread mark please
Think he'd be a flop there, don't think he's got the melons for it.
There's not much wrong with what he's said though is there? Since Ferguson retired we've finished in the top 4 twice, one a couple of Mickey Mouse trophies and seen the club reduced to a laughing stock. I'd take a manager that may not win trophies but promises steady progression and Champions League qualification.
I am not sure what makes you think that Poch fits the bill to bring trophies. LVG and Mourinho brought us trophies and all while Poch won sweet fa at spurs
Lazy argument which is made too often. LVG and Jose had pots of money to spend. Poch didn't in comparison and he still got them to a CL final which the other two didn't.
I have a great idea! Let’s keep hiring and firing managers that all the big clubs are after while not allowing any single of them the time needed to actually rebuild the squad and achieve anything.
He excels at building squads, developing youngsters and coaching proper football. Pretty much everything we need currently. We are having a no name manager on top level on the fantasy dream that he "might" be able to do these, so what are we going to lose with hiring a manager who actually excels in these anyway ?
It is not lazy it is factual.
The original post said that we need a manager that can bring trophies and poch fits the bill. I dont think it is lazy to point out that LVG and Mourinho won trophies while poch won nothing at spurs it is just a fact
Ridiculosus!
Get real United fans. Let's get behind our current plan for another season and address any problems in the summer.
Hiring Poch at this point is knee jerk. If he wanted to come here he would have made the right noises when Mourinho was sacked.
Get real United fans. Let's get behind our current plan for another season and address any problems in the summer.
Hiring Poch at this point is knee jerk. If he wanted to come here he would have made the right noises when Mourinho was sacked.
And a lazy argument. The two clubs had vastly different resources. Poch has a track record for improving young players - something we are desparately in need of right now.
What am I reading?
So should Liverpool never have appointed Klopp after his bad season at Dortmund?
Klopp won the league twice before his bad season, while Poch has won nothing, in fact he wasted the opportunity of the century to win the league. Pochs achievement is to improve Spurs' league position by maybe 2 positions on average, not counting this season. Which is OK, but nothing jaw-dropping.
You saying that an argument is lazy over and over again and over again doesn’t make it lazy, it just means that you are too lazy to actually respond with a reasonable counter argument other than that you think my point is lazy.
Can you not read? Wow.
There you go again, too lazy to put an intelligent counter argument together and just resort to lazy insults. Wow!
Read what I posted or are you only reading the parts you want to defend yourself? Lazy argument and lazy comprehension.