A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Dec9003 said:
If wages and transfer spending worked the way you did, you'd finish out of the top four every single season since Poch has taken over. You're simply wrong about the way transfer spending works.
Click to expand...

The biggest spending teams nearly always win the most trophies and finish the highest in the league, this is a simple fact and it's why the big six are so far ahead of the rest, not just in the premier league but across all the top leagues in Europe.

Of course that doesn't mean that a team can't upset that trend (as we have) but the team which does that is still at a severe disadvantage and doing very well to compete with clubs who are able to be more flexible, Poch basically has his hands tied if he has a problem, whereas most of his competitors can go out and fix it. It's usually the result of excellent management/coaching/shrewd spending when a side goes against the norm, a lot of which can be attributed to the way Pochettino has built this team. That's why us managing third is impressive and not 'par for the course'. There are limitations to this though, and he can't turn water in to wine, there are some issues which require money to fix.

Anyway this debate is getting tiresome, it happens every single time we lose a game or two. If we do finish lower than third we can discuss that, but right now that's where we're at and personally I think we will probably stay there despite a bit of rocky form.
 
What is Poch doing? I know there's plenty who won't have a bad word said about him, but he's got his tactics completely wrong today. Arsenal have played one up top all game but Spurs insist on playing three at the back. That extra man in midfield has meant Arsenal have found it for too easy to transition, and his belated answer was to take another midfielder off and keep with 3 centrebacks? Mustafi playing fullback is an obvious weakness but there's been no concerted effort to expose him.

Arsenal seem more likely to score a second than Spurs to get an equalizer. Regardless of the result, he's not played this well.
 
ivaldo said:
What is Poch doing? I know there's plenty who won't have a bad word said about him, but he's got his tactics completely wrong today. Arsenal have played one up top all game but Spurs insist on playing three at the back. That extra man in midfield has meant Arsenal have found it for too easy to transition, and his belated answer was to take another midfielder off and keep with 3 centrebacks? Mustafi playing fullback is an obvious weakness but there's been no concerted effort to expose him.

Arsenal seem more likely to score a second than Spurs to get an equalizer. Regardless of the result, he's not played this well.
Click to expand...
Did you know that you’re not allowed to say Pochettino isn’t a world class tactician? Apparently he’s so good he plays like this on purpose.
 
A few weeks ago he was within touching distance of being top of the league. Now some of you are trying to make out he's no good. Seriously do you have any idea how ridiculous and knee jerk you sound
 
Sky1981 said:
Tottenham is shit, but poch made them world class.

Tottenham lose, it's not poch fault, the team is shit.
Click to expand...

I can't tell if you're trying to suggest some logical inconsistency between those two statements? Because there isn't any.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
A few weeks ago he was within touching distance of being top of the league. Now some of you are trying to make out he's no good. Seriously do you have any idea how ridiculous and knee jerk you sound
Click to expand...

Hyperbole was too high in the first place. He's a good to very-good manager, but has done little to be considered among the elite for me.
 
Tommy said:
Hyperbole was too high in the first place. He's a good to very-good manager, but has done little to be considered among the elite for me.
Click to expand...

Tommy mate, you talk too much sense for a Liverpool fan :annoyed:
 
Tommy said:
Hyperbole was too high in the first place. He's a good to very-good manager, but has done little to be considered among the elite for me.
Click to expand...
Agreed. He’s outside that bracket until he starts winning stuff.

The likes of Mourinho, Fergie, Pep we’re winning trophies with lesser teams in lesser leagues before they ended up winning the big ones.
 
crossy1686 said:
Agreed. He’s outside that bracket until he starts winning stuff.

The likes of Mourinho, Fergie, Pep we’re winning trophies with lesser teams in lesser leagues before they ended up winning the big ones.
Click to expand...

Bit of a slip there. Baldy has never won with a lesser team and that is why most neutrals think career-wise SAF>Mou>Baldy.
 
breakout67 said:
Bit of a slip there. Baldy has never won with a lesser team and that is why most neutrals think career-wise SAF>Mou>Baldy.
Click to expand...
Hard to find many people who have Mourinho ahead of Guardiola career-wise. Probably it is just Mourinho, his mum, Mendez, Duncel Castle and you who have him ahead of Pep.
 
He was awful today. No excuses.

Terrible, terrible decisions and stubbornly sticking to plans which do not work.

The next time we turn to Llorente coming on for the last 10 despite this working maybe once ever I'm going to put my foot through my computer screen.

That Rose in CM decision is verging on negligence. Not a single Spurs fan could possibly have thought that was ever going to go remotely well. We got a late equaliser and could possibly have seized momentum, but every single tactical decision from then on was wrong and allowed Arsenal to be the ones chasing the win.
 
He's going to get sacked if he keeps this up.

And then join United coaching staff. Put out the cones for us.
 
Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente.

Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth :lol:. Regardless, good result from him and showed once again his tactical acumen by putting Rose in midfield to change things up. The only thing limiting Pochettino is the overall quality of his team.
 
Apparently some thought we should pay £40m to acquire Poch after paying Mourinho £20m to leave. Woody finally learned his lesson
 
His football is an eyesore. I can't believe they have reputation here for playing good football. Rely on fullbacks and when all fails turn into hoofball FC. Nothing else.
 
breakout67 said:
Bit of a slip there. Baldy has never won with a lesser team and that is why most neutrals think career-wise SAF>Mou>Baldy.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt most neutrals rank Mourinho ahead of Guardiola career-wise.
 
Amadaeus said:
Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente.

Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth :lol:. Regardless, good result from him and showed once again his tactical acumen by putting Rose in midfield to change things up. The only thing limiting Pochettino is the overall quality of his team.
Click to expand...
Rose lost the ball a few times in dangerous areas trying to run with the ball. They got lucky.
 
Amadaeus said:
Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente. Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth :lol:. Regardless, good result from him and showed once again his tactical acumen by putting Rose in midfield to change things up. The only thing limiting Pochettino is the overall quality of his team.
Click to expand...

Llorente was bought because Pochettino has only ever used a target man type striker upfront & shoes an inability to play without one - ie Rashford would not be a striker here. Llorente was bought as a second striker to Kane showing similar physical attributes to him but less technical ability hence the price.

There is no need for Llorente for Spurs - but there is a need for Pochettino to have that player.
 
Amadaeus said:
Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente. Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth :lol:. Regardless, good result from him and showed once again his tactical acumen by putting Rose in midfield to change things up. The only thing limiting Pochettino is the overall quality of his team.
Click to expand...

Aubameyang was bought in to replace a departing Giroud - Spurs already had Kane.
Ozil has been anonymous for a while - Spurs already have Eriksen.
Torreira was a good signing, though.

A big deal is made out of Poch's spending, but he's simply needed to spend less than Arsenal in recent windows. A combined XI between the two clubs would still favour Spurs over Arsenal.
 
Tommy said:
Aubameyang was bought in to replace a departing Giroud - Spurs already had Kane.
Ozil has been anonymous for a while - Spurs already have Eriksen.
Torreira was a good signing, though.

A big deal is made out of Poch's spending, but he's simply needed to spend less than Arsenal in recent windows. A combined XI between the two clubs would still favour Spurs over Arsenal.
Click to expand...

Lloris is better than arsenal's keeper. Spurs fullbacks and CB's are all better than arsenal's. Any CM of spurs is better than xhaka. Kane is better than any striker of spurs. Same with Son, Eriksen etc.

Such excuses from his fans.
 
Amadaeus said:
Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente.

Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth :lol:. Regardless, good result from him and showed once again his tactical acumen by putting Rose in midfield to change things up. The only thing limiting Pochettino is the overall quality of his team.
Click to expand...

Our squad depth is terrible, but you're more than stretching a bit if you think putting Danny Rose in midfield is showing tactical acumen.
 
As many of us have said already, this Spurs squad has serious problems, which is why Poch gets so much credit when they are overachieving.

However, when you make bad decisions that further exacerbate such problems in your team then it can really cost you in games like this. That's what happened today as Poch made several decisions that simply did not work and he should face criticism for them.
 
Amadaeus literally supports Poch. It's fecking weird.
 
Honestly if I was Lucas I'd be fuming. Game was crying out for a player like him, bring off Son (who was totally ineffective) and bring in a player who can take a different game to Arsenal's defenders. He was fantastic coming off the bench against Watford and changed the game, but it's almost like since then he's been frozen out.

Llorente offers nothing aside from nod ons and a threat from set pieces, and he forces us to play an archaic brand of football.
 
Revan said:
Hard to find many people who have Mourinho ahead of Guardiola career-wise. Probably it is just Mourinho, his mum, Mendez, Duncel Castle and you who have him ahead of Pep.
Click to expand...

Might want to have a word with UEFA who consistently ranked him in the top 10 of all time while Guardiola didn't make the list. Or you know look at the trophies won. It's clear projection to think that this is some bias, it's blindingly obvious that his achievements with Porto and Inter far outweight Guardiola's with Barcelona. Mourinho won half of Porto's european trophies in their whole history, and ended a 45 year CL drought for Inter.

Baldy is a better manager than Mou now, but the only exceptional thing he has done is with Barcelona. He has to win the CL with a second club to show that he can do with without an all time great team.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
Lloris is better than arsenal's keeper. Spurs fullbacks and CB's are all better than arsenal's. Any CM of spurs is better than xhaka. Kane is better than any striker of spurs. Same with Son, Eriksen etc.

Such excuses from his fans.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he has a great team. Still not seeing the hype. Mostly seems to stem from improving players, but how much of that is just good scouting and the other coaches?
 
I was at the game today, the tactics were horrendous. The game was crying out for widdh, so what does be do 2nd half? Moves Rose to the middle .
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Our squad depth is terrible, but you're more than stretching a bit if you think putting Danny Rose in midfield is showing tactical acumen.
Click to expand...

A spurs fan having to downplay a Man United fan's view of spurs... you can't make this shit up :lol:
 
yfoFC said:
A spurs fan having to downplay a Man United fan's view of spurs... you can't make this shit up :lol:
Click to expand...

Well Squishy is actually a sensible Spurs fan, rather than someone that tries to actively play up fan stereotypes of being incredibly biased and blinkered about their own club.
 
Tommy said:
Aubameyang was bought in to replace a departing Giroud - Spurs already had Kane.
Ozil has been anonymous for a while - Spurs already have Eriksen.
Torreira was a good signing, though.

A big deal is made out of Poch's spending, but he's simply needed to spend less than Arsenal in recent windows. A combined XI between the two clubs would still favour Spurs over Arsenal.
Click to expand...

It not about their starting eleven, but rather their squad of 25. All other top six clubs have a much richer team than spurs and it shows. Having the option to rotate and keep the starting eleven motivated to perform is a good way to improve players performance.

SquishyMcSquish said:
Our squad depth is terrible, but you're more than stretching a bit if you think putting Danny Rose in midfield is showing tactical acumen.
Click to expand...

He made some misplaced passes and lost some balls, but he also showed some great forward run Spurs has been missing since they had dembele(even though Sissoko does that once in awhile, but not really as effective as dembele). He put energy in the midfield where it was lacking in the game and it was a good tactical moves as it saw verthongen pushed out wide and if kolshieny has not perfectly read his cross, that would have been one of the best tactical changes in a game this season.

Aloysius's Back 3 said:
Llorente was bought because Pochettino has only ever used a target man type striker upfront & shoes an inability to play without one - ie Rashford would not be a striker here. Llorente was bought as a second striker to Kane showing similar physical attributes to him but less technical ability hence the price.

There is no need for Llorente for Spurs - but there is a need for Pochettino to have that player.
Click to expand...

Pochettino has played Son and Ali as false 9. He doesn’t only play with Target man. Plus Kane drops very deep a lot of time. He is barely a Target man ala lukaku, Luca Toni, Fellaini(:lol:), etc
 
breakout67 said:
Well Squishy is actually a sensible Spurs fan, rather than someone that tries to actively play up fan stereotypes of being incredibly biased and blinkered about their own club.
Click to expand...

He's an awesome poster no doubt but it's just funny seeing a fan of the manager you support having to talk sense into you..
 
Amadaeus said:
He made some misplaced passes and lost some balls, but he also showed some great forward run Spurs has been missing since they had dembele(even though Sissoko does that once in awhile, but not really as effective as dembele). He put energy in the midfield where it was lacking in the game and it was a good tactical moves as it saw verthongen pushed out wide and if kolshieny has not perfectly read his cross, that would have been one of the best tactical changes in a game this season.
Click to expand...


He nearly cost us a goal, not once but twice in stupid areas. He tried to nutmeg someone on the edge of his own box.

You're right about us missing Dembele, but the answer to that is not Danny Rose, not ever. He was completely pointless in a central midfield role and his one decent run forward led to him booting the ball out because he lacks the passing range to play that position. Vertonghen as a LB could potentially have worked because unlike Rose he can actually cross a ball, but it wasn't dependent on Rose playing in midfield. You can't say 'if this happened it would be the best tactical change' while ignoring that if Rose isn't rescued by his teammates, he possibly gives away a goal .. and then it's the worst tactical move of the season.

I think we both agree that Pochettino is forced to improvise due to a lack of investment, and was let down by our board in the summer (and in January when we lost Moussa). The lack of quality we have in midfield and at fullback is not his fault. That said, this doesn't mean that he isn't capable of making poor tactical changes, which he absolutely did today. You say he was forced to bring on Llorente but he had Lucas Moura on the bench, a player who has made a serious impact in the past as a substitute and whilst lacking in end product, is always a threat and keeps the ball on the ground.

Pochettino had a poor game tactically. The formation didn't work but he persisted with it throughout the 90, his substitutes aside from Lamela were wrong, and the decision to move a brainless left back in to central midfield (the position arguably requiring the most tactical intelligence) was bizarre. He got it wrong and had a bad day at the office, in the past he's made correct decisions which have affected the game well (Watford the most recent one which springs to mind, and United in the second half I feel his changes made a big difference) but today was not one of those days.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
He nearly cost us a goal, not once but twice in stupid areas. He tried to nutmeg someone on the edge of his own box.

You're right about us missing Dembele, but the answer to that is not Danny Rose, not ever. He was completely pointless in a central midfield role and his one decent run forward led to him booting the ball out because he lacks the passing range to play that position. Vertonghen as a LB could potentially have worked because unlike Rose he can actually cross a ball, but it wasn't dependent on Rose playing in midfield. You can't say 'if this happened it would be the best tactical change' while ignoring that if Rose isn't rescued by his teammates, he possibly gives away a goal .. and then it's the worst tactical move of the season.

I think we both agree that Pochettino is forced to improvise due to a lack of investment, and was let down by our board in the summer (and in January when we lost Moussa). The lack of quality we have in midfield and at fullback is not his fault. That said, this doesn't mean that he isn't capable of making poor tactical changes, which he absolutely did today. You say he was forced to bring on Llorente but he had Lucas Moura on the bench, a player who has made a serious impact in the past as a substitute and whilst lacking in end product, is always a threat and keeps the ball on the ground.

Pochettino had a poor game tactically. The formation didn't work but he persisted with it throughout the 90, his substitutes aside from Lamela were wrong, and the decision to move a brainless left back in to central midfield (the position arguably requiring the most tactical intelligence) was bizarre. He got it wrong and had a bad day at the office, in the past he's made correct decisions which have affected the game well (Watford the most recent one which springs to mind, and United in the second half I feel his changes made a big difference) but today was not one of those days.
Click to expand...

It is not the first time a midfielder lost the ball in midfield. Dembele has lost it many time, but that never hampered his ability to play there and continued making those runs. As you stated, Pochettino had to improvise due to lack of squad depth and he did that in order to accomadate Vertonghen out wide to ‘do something different to change the game.’ Good managers are dynamic and don’t just have one plan. Pochettino showed such dynamism today and it would have worked out great had kolshieny not read Vertonghen cross. Of course it would have also happened that such changes caused spurs to lose, but great managers knows how and when to take risk. This move was a risk, but at the end it didn’t have a positive or negative affect on the result. However, if there was more minutes added, it might have had a positive outcome for the reason that rose as the central midfielder caused Toirera to have a red card. In my own opinion, that was a positive outcome if there was more minutes added. I didn’t see it as a poor tactical game as he did what he had to do not to get a defeat after their team morale was at a very low after back to back defeat.
 
Amadaeus said:
It is not the first time a midfielder lost the ball in midfield. Dembele has lost it many time, but that never hampered his ability to play there and continued making those runs. As you stated, Pochettino had to improvise due to lack of squad depth and he did that in order to accomadate Vertonghen out wide to ‘do something different to change the game.’ Good managers are dynamic and don’t just have one plan. Pochettino showed such dynamism today and it would have worked out great had kolshieny not read Vertonghen cross. Of course it would have also happened that such changes cause spurs to lose, but great managers knows how and when to take risk. This move was a risk, but at the end it didn’t have a positive or negative affect on the result. However, if there was more minutes added, it might have had a positive outcome for the reason that rose as the central midfielder caused Toirera to have a red card. In my own opinion, that was a positive outcome if there was more minutes added. I didn’t see it as a poor tactical game as he did what he had to do not to get a defeat after team morale is at a very low after back to back defeat.
Click to expand...

Dembele VERY RARELY lost the ball outside our box. Maybe a few times in his entire career at Spurs, he rarely lost the ball full stop let alone in such a dangerous position. Rose lost it twice in an area where you simply cannot give the ball away because he's simply not used to the role. Proper central midfielders know when to take risks and when to play it simple, and outside your own box is when you play simple football. Dembele used to go on his runs when he was deeper in to our own half.

Giving Rose credit because Torreira decided to steam in to him is again, a bit of a stretch. He performed the role poorly and we totally lost control of the game after we scored, partly because of giving the ball and fouls away far too cheaply which led to Arsenal being able to get on the front foot. Part of that was the football we were reduced to playing due to the presence of Llorente, and part of that was because Rose was positionally lost and playing CM like he was still a left back.

The second half was a tactical mess from Poch, of that I don't think there can be much doubt. It's no big deal and happens to all coaches (nobody gets it right all the time) and certainly doesn't undo all the fantastic work Pochettino has done at our football club, but it still was a mess. I'm almost tempted to say that moving Rose to CM was a statement from Pochettino that we badly need midfield investment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.