A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[RasTiaGba]

Well he did sign a lot of the players you deem not good enough

I know bud, Squishy posts good stuff at times

But with regards to Spurs, he thinks Poch developed Kane and Alli into world class, and I think those two players would have been world class under any manager who isn't a managerial dinosaur like Neil Warnock

 

[charlenefan]

Don't discount Florentino Perez thinking of doing just that. Pochettino would be pretty keen to leave Spurs if Real Madrid came calling.

Have Real ever paid for a manager though? They're a lot tighter with the purse strings these days and I can see them not putting a lot of value on paying to get Poch. Agree he would want to leave Spurs for them though

 

[EwanI Ted]

We've had a midfield of Fred and McTominay, comfortably beating a team that defeated them. And before of that, we had a midfield of Pereira and McTominay, being the better team against Liverpool.

It can be done.

On the odd occasion for sure, but as far as I can tell Winks and Sissoko have been their main midfielders for about two months. I think if we'd been without Matic and Herrera since Ole had taken over, our results would have been affected.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

We've had a midfield of Fred and McTominay, comfortably beating a team that defeated them. And before of that, we had a midfield of Pereira and McTominay, being the better team against Liverpool.

It can be done.

Stop acting like Pochettino has failed miserably, we're third in the league and in the CL quarters. It has been done, we're still (overall) having an excellent season which was above the expectations of most Spurs fans.

He's worked with options like Sissoko/Winks/Dier/Skipp all season, not just for a few games during an injury crisis.

 

[RedSky]

Spurs clearly need some investment to go beyond 3rd. If they finish there again having spent nothing this season then its an achievement

Agreed. The problem for Tottenham will be if/when Eriksen leaves as that leaves a huge hole in their squad. I think they can live without Alderweireld ok, but losing Eriksen will be huge.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Spurs fans say that Poch has improved players

So if he has improved players, it's also a given that the squad value is higher than the value paid for these players.

One minute Spurs fans talk about their squad value as if they're Everton, the next they say Poch has developed the players into world class (which must mean they cost more now than the squad value you keep quoting)

He's developed some in to world class players, the likes of Kane, Eriksen, Alli and Son have all come on brilliantly under his management, but yes they were big talents to begin with and the likelihood is they would have been great players under most managers. Managers aren't magicians who can turn an average talent in to a world class player, every top manager on this planet needs world class players to achieve anything, Guardiola and Klopp are no exception to this so why would Pochettino be?

We have a top 4 level squad, with some fantastic players. We also have some serious issues in the squad which have gone ignored, hence why we're not developing as a team and going above our ceiling (which is third, that is the best we can achieve). Criticising Pochettino for being third is silly when he's not being given the option to fix some of the problems the team has, you can only do so much development with players like Ben Davies and Eric Dier, and whilst Sissoko has been great this season he still has serious limitations.

Basically, Poch has improved players but there are limitations to what he can do. Right now we have bang average fullbacks, a dodgy keeper, and midfield options worse than Wolves. You don't challenge for the title on the back of that, not against these City and Liverpool squads. If we drop out of the top 4 entirely, then criticism of Pochettino becomes valid because he'll be failing in his objectives, but whilst we're clear of 4th by 4 points it all appears very kneejerky and judging him based on two poor results.

We're having a very good season. I predicted at the start we'd have a struggle to make top 4, so thus far I'm pleasantly surprised. Offer a Spurs fan 3rd and CL quarters at the start of this season and they bite your hand off, we invested NOTHING.

 

[Mcking]

There is something I really can't comprehend. How is caf favourite Pochettino suddenly an overrated manager despite being in a very convincing position on the table? The critics before usually cited the lack of trophies, but now everyone seem to be constantly on his back after every game, ignoring context and putting in much efforts just to belittle everything he has done as a manager. It seems some can't wait for Tottenham to lose a game so they can bring their confirmation biases to the fore. I mean, are Pochettino and Tottenham the only team that is not allowed to lose games? I don't see the same reaction towards other managers when their teams fail to win.
I can remember around 60% voting for Poch as our next permanent manager even after Ole had managed his first few games as interim, but now many seem to be trying hard to talk him down. Is it because Ole is doing well, so Poch is being degraded just to big up the former?
I mean if you ever doubted confirmation bias, check out this thread.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

There is something I really can't comprehend. How is caf favourite Pochettino suddenly an overrated manager despite being in a very convincing position on the table? The critics before usually cited the lack of trophies, but now everyone seem to be constantly on his back after every game, ignoring context and putting in much efforts just to belittle everything he has done as a manager. It seems some can't wait for Tottenham to lose a game so they can bring their confirmation biases to the fore. I mean, are Pochettino and Tottenham the only team that is not allowed to lose games? I don't see the same reaction towards other managers when their teams fail to win.
I can remember around 60% voting for Poch as our next permanent manager even after Ole had managed his first few games as interim, but now many seem to be trying hard to talk him down. Is it because Ole is doing well, so Poch is being degraded just to big up the former?
I mean if you ever doubted confirmation bias, check out this thread.

It's basically this. And it's absolutely pathetic.

As you rightly say, Pochettino has us 3 points clear in third, which by any reasonable stretch would be considered a very good position in the table for us. Many on this forum predicted we may drop out of the top four after a summer of no spending, or at least would face a serious battle for it. I myself am surprised at how well we've done overall this season, we've had a blip recently and it's been shite, but looking at the big picture we are doing well and better than most of us expected.

 

[Moriarty]

Agreed. The problem for Tottenham will be if/when Eriksen leaves as that leaves a huge hole in their squad. I think they can live without Alderweireld ok, but losing Eriksen will be huge.

Or if a huge offer comes in for Kane. I wonder what Levy would do if say Real or United offered a Neymar-sized fee for him?

 

[RedSky]

Or if a huge offer comes in for Kane. I wonder what Levy would do if say Real or United offered a Neymar-sized fee for him?

No chance, that would be the end of him. The fans would turn on him if he sold Kane. There would be riots.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

No chance, that would be the end of him. The fans would turn on him if he sold Kane. There would be riots.

The thing is, Kane is happy there.

He'll be like Le Tiss and Shearer,playing out their career at their boyhood clubs

 

[passing-wind]

There's so much bias in this thread, I'd love to see the reactions if the glazers refused to spend considerable amounts for almost a decade would fans still expect the club to realistically be competitive. Tottenham are like a car being driven with the handbrake on, the fact Liverpool and City have drastically out spent them (not in one particular window but over consistent seasons) yet there's only a few points between them is reminiscent to the fact that Poch is a world class manager.

He's proven more than Solskjaer in England with a fringe budget and investment into the team (dating back to Southampton). Solskjaer in hindsight reiterated that he's doing well because of the quality within our team, so it makes what he envisions easier to transcend to the players. While if you look at Poch's career objectively, it defines making the best out of bad situations. It's hypocritical to praise Solskjaer for his run but dismiss Poch for what he's achieved as a manager.

While I acknowledge he should have done considerably more to atleast attain a domestic cup, I think Tottenham are hindering his ceiling for what he can achieve and that's more than just money im talking the ethos and history of the club. He needs a new environment to thrive in otherwise he'll end up a Wenger 2.0.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

No chance, that would be the end of him. The fans would turn on him if he sold Kane. There would be riots.

Yeah, if Levy tried to sell Kane despite Kane not really showing any desire to leave, that would be the end of him at the club.

Different if it was a situation like Bale where the player is clearly wanting to leave and it's just a case of negotiating the biggest possible fee, but I really doubt Kane would ever push for a move.

 

[Mihai]

You have absolutely no idea how Ole or someone else would have done from the start of the season. We're still in his honeymoon phase, although the individual errors are starting to creep back in now.

Spurs clearly need some investment to go beyond 3rd. If they finish there again having spent nothing this season then its an achievement

That is one long honeymoon!

 

[Gehrman]

Tottenham not winning titles is because they never plan to do so at the start of the league.

When has anyone heard - Tottenham are going for the title this year at the start of the season & show that they are not willing to be a second rate team by any means?

They just go about their season with the target of top 4 or higher - finds themselves capable of winning the title - important matches come up and they fail.

Their season target needs to be addressed the moment the season starts and the moment the transfer window opens.

The manager could easily do this but refuses to do so almost due to a sense of pressure and fear.

How excatly can they the plan to win titles, when they have to compete with teams who are able to spends vast sums of money to improve their squad? José might be one of the most succesfull managers in history but he took his title winners at Chelsea to relegation form and was doing the same with us this season, with a team that he mostly bought and buildt. Klopp is challenging for the title, he has spent a decent amount even if he hasn't spent anywhere nearly as much as city.

I don't really understand how Tottentam are suppossed to be planning to win the league if they don't have the transfer funds to build a title winning squad. 3rd place and going to a CL quarter final is a pretty good achievement compared to all the teams who spent far more money than them that are beneath them in the table(Arsenal, chelsea, Man utd).

Even though OGS is doing an exellent job atm, I don't feel any us feel confident that he will win us the league next season, without bringing in players who can take us to the next level. How can it be any different for Poch?

 

[Gehrman]

Yeah, if Levy tried to sell Kane despite Kane not really showing any desire to leave, that would be the end of him at the club.

Different if it was a situation like Bale where the player is clearly wanting to leave and it's just a case of negotiating the biggest possible fee, but I really doubt Kane would ever push for a move.

I honestly don't understand why Kane wants to stay at Spurs. Obviously I admire his loyalty as a 1 club man, but he could go to Real Madrid and challenge for the highest honors while earning twice as much. He could also come to us and earn a great deal more. I guess 1 club men like him are rare, but who knows where he wants to end his career. I could just imagine that the top 4 trophy every year get's a bit stale, when he has the chance write history somewhere else.

 

[lysglimt]

I know bud, Squishy posts good stuff at times

But with regards to Spurs, he thinks Poch developed Kane and Alli into world class, and I think those two players would have been world class under any manager who isn't a managerial dinosaur like Neil Warnock

Well in fairness - he probably had a lot to do with it, and that is his strong side. His transfer record is a lot less convincing

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Well in fairness - he probably had a lot to do with it, and that is his strong side. His transfer record is a lot less convincing

His transfer record is fine.

Sanchez, Sissoko, Son, Moura, Wanyama, Alderweireld, Alli and Trippier are all varying degrees of success, admittedly some like Wanyama have suffered injuries but they were decent signings considering the money he has had available. I don't like Trippier but if sold we would make a significant profit.

He's had plenty of flops, but so would any manager working on a tight budget. I also really do doubt how much influence managers have over signings these days, I know players like Nkoudou were primarily Mitchell's work, and he's claimed credit for Alli too. Regardless, when you're working under serious budget constraints you're going to have to take risks, and flops like Janssen and Aurier are inevitable.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I honestly don't understand why Kane wants to stay at Spurs. Obviously I admire his loyalty as a 1 club man, but he could go to Real Madrid and challenge for the highest honors while earning twice as much. He could also come to us and earn a great deal more. I guess 1 club men like him are rare, but who knows where he wants to end his career. I could just imagine that the top 4 trophy every year get's a bit stale, when he has the chance write history somewhere else.

He's settled with his family in London and adored by the fans, I think personally for him he's happy being the main man at the club and breaking scoring records.

Different people have different ambitions. I'm sure he wants trophies but for him I feel a trophy at Spurs would be worth 100 he could win at Madrid, and personally I think this is laudable and fecking refreshing in the mercenary world of modern football. Maybe in a few years if we're still in the same position he will start getting itchy feet, who knows.

 

[Lash]

He's settled with his family in London and adored by the fans, I think personally for him he's happy being the main man at the club and breaking scoring records.

Different people have different ambitions. I'm sure he wants trophies but for him I feel a trophy at Spurs would be worth 100 he could win at Madrid, and personally I think this is laudable and fecking refreshing in the mercenary world of modern football. Maybe in a few years if we're still in the same position he will start getting itchy feet, who knows.

I agree, I think he has Shearers record in mind and will hope he'll win some trophies on the way. I feel like he's being let down by lack of investment that stop players like Alderweireld and Eriksen giving a shit. He looked like the only one interested or good enough last night.

 

[Mcking]

We've had a midfield of Fred and McTominay, comfortably beating a team that defeated them. And before of that, we had a midfield of Pereira and McTominay, being the better team against Liverpool.

It can be done.

Crystal Palace in a one-off game is not the same as 38 games in a full season. Palace beat Man City at the Etihad, yet City are 15 points above us. Spurs also beat Burnley, the team that drew with us at OT.

 

[Sky1981]

Tottenham is shit, but poch made them world class.

Tottenham lose, it's not poch fault, the team is shit.

 

[Dec9003]

But they finished behind us last season and didnt but any players while all the teams around them did.

Even we did with Fred, though that was clearly a cock up.

Their defense is clearly past its best. Toby was embarrassed by Pedro on his goal. And despite Kane and Son scoring, the contribution from the rest of the squad is lacking goals

I still don't think it's an overachievement for them to be third though, given the context of the season I think any less would've been failure from them.
United have been... Well, shit up until Christmas.
Chelsea have a new manager which if we're being honest isn't quite working out just yet, along with a myriad of goal shy strikers.
Arsenal are Arsenal, not much more to say.
So I think Tottenham being third is them being where they should be, which isn't a criticism, I just don't think they deserve praise for having a fantastic season when they're not; especially considering they ducked out of the FA cup at the first or second hurdle.
Obviously it's a pain to have spent nothing in the summer, but it's also worth remembering it's very possible to spend money and look worse for it, we're a good example of that this season.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I still don't think it's an overachievement for them to be third though, given the context of the season I think any less would've been failure from them.
United have been... Well, shit up until Christmas.
Chelsea have a new manager which if we're being honest isn't quite working out just yet, along with a myriad of goal shy strikers.
Arsenal are Arsenal, not much more to say.
So I think Tottenham being third is them being where they should be, which isn't a criticism, I just don't think they deserve praise for having a fantastic season when they're not; especially considering they ducked out of the FA cup at the first or second hurdle.
Obviously it's a pain to have spent nothing in the summer, but it's also worth remembering it's very possible to spend money and look worse for it, we're a good example of that this season.

Oh yey it's the standard 'everyone else is doing badly and that's the only reason Spurs are where they are' line which is trotted out every single season without fail. All other clubs are always in this state of flux and Pochettino deserves no credit for keeping our ship extremely steady every single season.

How about the context of our season? The fact we had a horrible injury crisis, sold Dembele (our most talented midfielder) and didn't bring in a replacement and haven't signed a player in an entire year?

Also, this whole 'especially considering they ducked out of the FA cup' argument is horrible since we got to the semi finals of the league cup and look to be making the quarter finals of the CL. We went out early in one cup competition, how much of a difference do you actually think this has made to our season?

 

[Nick.]

There are so many fraudulent users here who will say anything to criticise Pochettino's work. You guys would have sucked dick to appoint him when Mourinho was sacked.

 

[TMDaines]

There are so many fraudulent users here who will say anything to criticise Pochettino's work. You guys would have sucked dick to appoint him when Mourinho was sacked.

Yep, but I'm not one of them. Always made my reservations on Pochettino quite clear.

 

[Dec9003]

Oh yey it's the standard 'everyone else is doing badly and that's the only reason Spurs are where they are' line which is trotted out every single season without fail. All other clubs are always in this state of flux and Pochettino deserves no credit for keeping our ship extremely steady every single season.

How about the context of our season? The fact we had a horrible injury crisis, sold Dembele (our most talented midfielder) and didn't bring in a replacement and haven't signed a player in an entire year?

Also, this whole 'especially considering they ducked out of the FA cup' argument is horrible since we got to the semi finals of the league cup and look to be making the quarter finals of the CL. We went out early in one cup competition, how much of a difference do you actually think this has made to our season?

Squishy you really need to calm down mate.
All I was saying is that given that the other teams (bar City and Liverpool) haven't been that good I'm not surprised that a good team like Tottenham are in third.
I don't remember saying Poch and Spurs don't deserve credit. Jumping down people's throats being defensive is a big reason why sensible debate regarding your club is so difficult.
Your club has had its troubles this season, but I'd say they're small compared to other teams, which is a credit to Poch and those above him anyway.
I definitely think going out the FA cup will help you with your league position though, it's just less matches to play.
Us going out the league cup should've helped us, but we were poor for a long time.
Like I said originally, I don't think Tottenham are overachieving, at all.
I think you're achieving what you should be, which is fine, it's not a bad thing by any means.
Regarding your injury crisis, it was bad, but am I wrong to say the bulk of the damage of it was in the cups anyway?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Squishy you really need to calm down mate.
All I was saying is that given that the other teams (bar City and Liverpool) haven't been that good I'm not surprised that a good team like Tottenham are in third.
I don't remember saying Poch and Spurs don't deserve credit. Jumping down people's throats being defensive is a big reason why sensible debate regarding your club is so difficult.
Your club has had its troubles this season, but I'd say they're small compared to other teams, which is a credit to Poch and those above him anyway.
I definitely think going out the FA cup will help you with your league position though, it's just less matches to play.
Us going out the league cup should've helped us, but we were poor for a long time.
Like I said originally, I don't think Tottenham are overachieving, at all.
I think you're achieving what you should be, which is fine, it's not a bad thing by any means.
Regarding your injury crisis, it was bad, but am I wrong to say the bulk of the damage of it was in the cups anyway?

I'm perfectly calm. It's just that the tired old cliches are trotted out every single season about Tottenham, and it gets boring. We hear 'Spurs are doing well because other clubs are doing badly' every year without fail, don't you think that gets tiresome for us, especially when these apparently weak clubs spend fortunes every summer?

Other teams have been good. Arsenal have a very decent points tally, Chelsea have been poor of late but started the season in excellent form and United have been rampant for a little while now despite a poor start. They haven't all been consistently excellent but top 4 challengers are never going to be consistently excellent, that's why they aren't challenging for the title. We've been not too far off two sensational sides in Liverpool/City this season, and I personally think that deserves a lot of credit considering the colossal gap that exists between us and those clubs in so many ways.

You said that any less than third would be a failure for us, which I'm sorry is just absurdity. 4th place would not be a failure and would still be a good season, the target was CL football, a failure would be finishing outside of the top 4 spots. Being relatively comfortably third is a very successful season for us considering the context of where we are with the stadium right now. Saying we're 'achieving what we should be' is weird, we don't have any magical right to third place in the league, there are some very strong sides in this league, sides who reinforced well in the summer.

Our troubles have been small compared to other clubs? We have spent no money in a year on any new players. We have had stadium issues and delays forcing us to play in Wembley again which doesn't feel like home and we've never properly settled there. We lost a key player to our team who was a huge part of some of our best performances last season (Dembele) and didn't replace him. We've had an injury crisis all season with some players (like Wanyama) basically being constantly unavailable, and others like Alli missing large stretches of the season. We also had a string of games where we were without the likes of Alli, Kane and Son all at once, and yes the bulk of the damage was done in the cups because we managed to scrape our way through the crisis. We have had plenty of problems this season, we have just (generally) dealt with them better than our rivals.

3rd and probably in the CL quarters, it's a great season thus far for us, more than we expected for sure. Our consistency has been fantastic in the league and our points tally would have us in a title challenge most seasons yet our success is being put down to the failure of others? And you can't see why that would get somewhat irritating? We're doing well, but people want to play down/jump on Poch because he's not turning Sissoko/Winks in to a title winning midfield and can't prevent the decline of Lloris or the fact we've needed proper investment in the fullback situation for a couple of seasons now.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Regardless of the good work he's done at Spurs, he made the mistake of instilling that terrible mentality into the team where they choke at key moments. A team is usually a reflection of it's manager and given that Poch himself has come out with questionable statements before, I'm of the opinion that their poor mentality comes from him.

I think because of this, all the ambitious players who are good enough to take the next step will want to leave soon, as we've seen with a few of them already. His mentality might not be a problem for Spurs right now, but for other bigger teams it definitely is.

 

[Untd55]

It makes you wonder where they would have been if they had actually invested in the summer. If they were able to improve at least their midfield, they may very well be on equal points with City and Liverpool.

Pochettino is a quality manager, but you can only go so far with no investment. I can see why he has been a bit frustrated lately.

I think Tottenham may be able to keep him one more season, but if they do not invest again he will be gone the following one.

 

[Amadaeus]

It makes you wonder where they would have been if they had actually invested in the summer. If they were able to improve at least their midfield, they may very well be on equal points with City and Liverpool.

Pochettino is a quality manager, but you can only go so far with no investment. I can see why he has been a bit frustrated lately.

I think Tottenham may be able to keep him one more season, but if they do not invest again he will be gone the following one.

I think it was a bit arrogant from their board or Pochettino to not invest last summer. To go into this season without buying new players is ridiculous even for a relegation team not to mention a team in need of investment and battling top four.

Looking at Pochettino team, I can see where investment is needed. Perhaps £200m - £300m if they want to challenge for the title.

Loris
Trippier/Aurier - Maguire/Davidson - Vertonghen/Forsyth - Rose/Davis
Ndombele/Sissoko - Rabiot/Winks
Bale/Lemela - Ali/Maddison - Son/Lucas moura
Kane/callum Wilson

*Accounting for Alderweild and Eriksen potential departure.
As you can see they are still a way to go towards becoming a quality team.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

Poch is a good coach but the rhetoric around him is getting unbearable. His overachievement is taking a team from 5th to 3rd. There’ll be songs and folk tales told about his time by future generations for this achievement.

 

[United Hobbit]

Didn't he say after the game at the weekend Spurs have a bottling mentality that can take a couple of years to rectify? Isn't that his job to have rectified it already?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ir...d-another-five-years-to-win-title-907369.html

I know part of it is the lack of investment but it is making me wonder if hes right for United given United are a team who should be challenging for the title.

However is part of it Pochettino has got Tottenham punching above their weight?

Annoyed they have bottled it, them winning it was far more preferable to having to pick between the awful options that are city and Liverpool

 

[FootyGirl88]

There are so many fraudulent users here who will say anything to criticise Pochettino's work. You guys would have sucked dick to appoint him when Mourinho was sacked.

Watch your mouth

 

[Dec9003]

I'm perfectly calm. It's just that the tired old cliches are trotted out every single season about Tottenham, and it gets boring. We hear 'Spurs are doing well because other clubs are doing badly' every year without fail, don't you think that gets tiresome for us, especially when these apparently weak clubs spend fortunes every summer?

Other teams have been good. Arsenal have a very decent points tally, Chelsea have been poor of late but started the season in excellent form and United have been rampant for a little while now despite a poor start. They haven't all been consistently excellent but top 4 challengers are never going to be consistently excellent, that's why they aren't challenging for the title. We've been not too far off two sensational sides in Liverpool/City this season, and I personally think that deserves a lot of credit considering the colossal gap that exists between us and those clubs in so many ways.

You said that any less than third would be a failure for us, which I'm sorry is just absurdity. 4th place would not be a failure and would still be a good season, the target was CL football, a failure would be finishing outside of the top 4 spots. Being relatively comfortably third is a very successful season for us considering the context of where we are with the stadium right now. Saying we're 'achieving what we should be' is weird, we don't have any magical right to third place in the league, there are some very strong sides in this league, sides who reinforced well in the summer.

Our troubles have been small compared to other clubs? We have spent no money in a year on any new players. We have had stadium issues and delays forcing us to play in Wembley again which doesn't feel like home and we've never properly settled there. We lost a key player to our team who was a huge part of some of our best performances last season (Dembele) and didn't replace him. We've had an injury crisis all season with some players (like Wanyama) basically being constantly unavailable, and others like Alli missing large stretches of the season. We also had a string of games where we were without the likes of Alli, Kane and Son all at once, and yes the bulk of the damage was done in the cups because we managed to scrape our way through the crisis. We have had plenty of problems this season, we have just (generally) dealt with them better than our rivals.

3rd and probably in the CL quarters, it's a great season thus far for us, more than we expected for sure. Our consistency has been fantastic in the league and our points tally would have us in a title challenge most seasons yet our success is being put down to the failure of others? And you can't see why that would get somewhat irritating? We're doing well, but people want to play down/jump on Poch because he's not turning Sissoko/Winks in to a title winning midfield and can't prevent the decline of Lloris or the fact we've needed proper investment in the fullback situation for a couple of seasons now.

I didn't say Tottenham were doing well because other teams were doing badly. I simply said that since the other teams have been poor, Tottenham should be expected to be third, since you have been in the top 4/3 every season for a while now.
Less than third would be a failure.
If you finish below:

• A United side that dropped loads of points in the first half of the season, and currently undergoing an injury crisis.
• An Arsenal side that is also underfunded despite being much worse than Tottenham
• A Chelsea side allergic to scoring goals with a manager who may not be there at the end of the season

Then it's a failure, you have a good side, despite your midfield problems you should comfortably finish ahead of these teams. In my opinion it just isn't that great for you to be above United, Arsenal and Chelsea. It would be great to finish ahead of Liverpool or City though I wouldn't expect you to, because they're better sides.
This idea that I've said you wouldn't be third had these teams been better is simply untrue, and in not quite sure why you don't get that.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I didn't say Tottenham were doing well because other teams were doing badly. I simply said that since the other teams have been poor, Tottenham should be expected to be third, since you have been in the top 4/3 every season for a while now.
Less than third would be a failure.
If you finish below:

• A United side that dropped loads of points in the first half of the season, and currently undergoing an injury crisis.
• An Arsenal side that is also underfunded despite being much worse than Tottenham
• A Chelsea side allergic to scoring goals with a manager who may not be there at the end of the season

Then it's a failure, you have a good side, despite your midfield problems you should comfortably finish ahead of these teams. In my opinion it just isn't that great for you to be above United, Arsenal and Chelsea. It would be great to finish ahead of Liverpool or City though I wouldn't expect you to, because they're better sides.
This idea that I've said you wouldn't be third had these teams been better is simply untrue, and in not quite sure why you don't get that.

Or maybe other teams really aren't doing all that poorly, and we're simply doing very well? Arsenal are having a good season in a league, very impressive points tally thus far.

If we finish below any one of three sides who spend more on wages and transfers we've failed .. how exactly? They're the ones who are failing if they finish behind us, not the other way round.

Or alternatively:

- A United side who have invested hundreds of millions in to the squad and boast genuine world class talent and excellent squad depth.
- A Chelsea team who also have spent tremendous amounts of money and again, boast a number of world class players.
- An Arsenal side which may be underfunded, but still spent far more than we have, and also has a significantly bigger wage budget.

Look, I'll be honest, I don't really care if we finish 4th because as long as we get CL football I view it as succeeding in our primary objective. What I would view as a 'failure' in a league season is finishing outside of the CL spots, other than that for Spurs you have pretty much had a successful season. The league is very competitive and has a lot of sides with very good players, so staying in those top 4 spots and remaining in the CL is a big deal.

 

[Sandikan]

I know bud, Squishy posts good stuff at times

But with regards to Spurs, he thinks Poch developed Kane and Alli into world class, and I think those two players would have been world class under any manager who isn't a managerial dinosaur like Neil Warnock

Did i miss alli becoming world class?!

 

[Dec9003]

Or maybe other teams really aren't doing all that poorly, and we're simply doing very well? Arsenal are having a good season in a league, very impressive points tally thus far.

If we finish below any one of three sides who spend more on wages and transfers we've failed .. how exactly? They're the ones who are failing if they finish behind us, not the other way round.

Or alternatively:

- A United side who have invested hundreds of millions in to the squad and boast genuine world class talent and excellent squad depth.
- A Chelsea team who also have spent tremendous amounts of money and again, boast a number of world class players.
- An Arsenal side which may be underfunded, but still spent far more than we have, and also has a significantly bigger wage budget.

Look, I'll be honest, I don't really care if we finish 4th because as long as we get CL football I view it as succeeding in our primary objective. What I would view as a 'failure' in a league season is finishing outside of the CL spots, other than that for Spurs you have pretty much had a successful season. The league is very competitive and has a lot of sides with very good players, so staying in those top 4 spots and remaining in the CL is a big deal.

The way you look at football is so simple. Transfer budget and league position don't correlate like that.
When you can boast an attack of Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son for such a small transfer expenditure, it doesn't mean you're doing incredibly well to be above teams who have outspent you.
If Kane cost 100 million, should you be expected to be third? Rather than it being a great achievement?
United don't have excellent squad depth, we really, really don't.
Who are Chelsea's world class players may I ask? Because didn't you previously say you find Hazard overrated? He and Kante are the only ones who most people would consider 'world class'
Arsenal have spent more than you, but if you think they have a better squad then I don't know what to say.
Finishing fourth wouldn't be a disaster for Tottenham, but considering the context of the season it would be a failure, to me at least; Especially considering you don't really have much else to play for barring the Champions league which you won't win.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

The way you look at football is so simple. Transfer budget and league position don't correlate like that.
When you can boast an attack of Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son for such a small transfer expenditure, it doesn't mean you're doing incredibly well to be above teams who have outspent you.
If Kane cost 100 million, should you be expected to be third? Rather than it being a great achievement?
United don't have excellent squad depth, we really, really don't.
Who are Chelsea's world class players may I ask? Because didn't you previously say you find Hazard overrated? He and Kante are the only ones who most people would consider 'world class'
Arsenal have spent more than you, but if you think they have a better squad then I don't know what to say.
Finishing fourth wouldn't be a disaster for Tottenham, but considering the context of the season it would be a failure, to me at least; Especially considering you don't really have much else to play for barring the Champions league which you won't win.

Yes they do , the way you look at football is so naive. In nearly every league worldwide, the top spending teams are at the top.

We have a great attack. We also have a bunch of players not good enough to be starting who do start because we haven't signed a single player in a year. United have excellent squad depth COMPARED to Spurs. The likes of Trippier, Davies and Lloris have been putting in awful performances for the club for a while now but still start due to a lack of options, beyond that we're reliant on Sissoko/Winks as our first choice midfield and players like Aurier get regular game time despite barely being PL level. I said I thought Hazard was overrated by people who thought he was a top 5 player in the world or the best player in the league, but yes him and Kante are their two world class players, and are surrounded by very good ones.

I don't think Arsenal have a better squad, but I don't think they're a million miles off either, they have some very good players and a top coach. It wouldn't be an utter disaster if we finished 4th and them 3rd for example, it would be annoying and disappointing but it wouldn't be a total failure for the club. If we're comfortably third that's a very good season for us because we've met and exceeded our objective (top 4) with relative ease, which is what we're on course to do thus far.

It wouldn't be a failure though. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but in the context of what this club targets finishing top 4 is a successful season, its job done basically. Why would going deep in to the CL not matter because we won't win it, but finishing a single place ahead of a PL (which we also won't win) would matter? There's very little difference between fourth and third, I'd swap you 4th and a CL final right now for 3rd and getting knocked out in the first round.

 

[Dec9003]

Yes they do , the way you look at football is so naive. In nearly every league worldwide, the top spending teams are at the top.

We have a great attack. We also have a bunch of players not good enough to be starting who do start because we haven't signed a single player in a year. United have excellent squad depth COMPARED to Spurs. The likes of Trippier, Davies and Lloris have been putting in awful performances for the club for a while now but still start due to a lack of options, beyond that we're reliant on Sissoko/Winks as our first choice midfield and players like Aurier get regular game time despite barely being PL level. I said I thought Hazard was overrated by people who thought he was a top 5 player in the world or the best player in the league, but yes him and Kante are their two world class players, and are surrounded by very good ones.

I don't think Arsenal have a better squad, but I don't think they're a million miles off either, they have some very good players and a top coach. It wouldn't be an utter disaster if we finished 4th and them 3rd for example, it would be annoying and disappointing but it wouldn't be a total failure for the club. If we're comfortably third that's a very good season for us because we've met and exceeded our objective (top 4) with relative ease, which is what we're on course to do thus far.

It wouldn't be a failure though. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but in the context of what this club targets finishing top 4 is a successful season, its job done basically. Why would going deep in to the CL not matter because we won't win it, but finishing a single place ahead of a PL (which we also won't win) would matter? There's very little difference between fourth and third, I'd swap you 4th and a CL final right now for 3rd and getting knocked out in the first round.

If wages and transfer spending worked the way you did, you'd finish out of the top four every single season since Poch has taken over. You're simply wrong about the way transfer spending works.