A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

SquishyMcSquish said:
Did you watch the game today? They weren't looking a side who have internal problems. They're constantly able to turn it on for these kind of games and they did that today, I don't know why you're trying to act like a loss at Stamford Bridge is some unprecedented embarrassment that no top 4 side could ever experience. They gave a City side who are vastly superior to us a great game last week.

Our team is good, it's top 4 quality. It isn't title challenge quality and that's a fact. Nobody before this season would say you're winning a title with trippier/aurier/davies/rose as your fullbacks and winks/sissoko as your central midfielders, nobody. But now Pochettino is magically expected to make them compete with Liverpool (who spent a fortune) and City, who have a squad worth more than a small country.

We're third in the fecking league, which is absolutely the best you can expect from the squad we have available bar some incredible season. People keep placing stupid expectations on Poch like he's some sort of magician and then stand back and laugh as he has a team 3rd behind two world class managers with superior squads who spend hundreds of millions of pounds like it's going out of fashion.

It's beyond moronic at this point, it's just infantile. The man got no money to spend all year on the squad despite a key player in Dembele leaving, yet he's expected to actually improve on our league position even as the teams around us once more spend huge amounts of money. Are people even remotely aware of how ridiculous that is?
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It's more that his doubters are placing those stupid expectations after he has built a stupid cult and is rated stupidly high for doing relatively nothing of note as a manager for 10 years.

If he was rated as let's say David Moyes (okay, that's harsh) or let's say Spalletti (okay, that is generous), then no one would have put those stupid expectations on him. But with stupid 'overratedness' come stupid expectations from his doubters, and stupid excuses from his cult.
 
el3mel said:
Again you're missing the point. No one is asking for you to win the league. As far as I'm concerned no one has said here "He should be winning the league", but at the same time you're heavily downing the state of your team and squad to show him as if he's overachieving, as if losing to Burnley or the worst Chelsea side in years is completely fine for you and it's all thanks to the board and players while the manager has no role in losing against teams inferior or at the same strength as him, while United went there and walked the game with ease a week or so ago.

It looks like every win is thanks to him and every lose is thanks to the board and certain players. Doesn't make any kind of sense.

It's again back the point I mentioned several times here. Spurs only win when no one expect them to win and no pressure on them but once they're favorable to win a certain fixture or have the upper hand in a game, they proceed and lose even if their opponent is passing through its worst period ever. Today isn't an anomaly. It happened a lot previously and shows, again, that the guy can't deal with pressure or expectation.
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Spurs were never favourites to win today, what are you on? Chelsea have only lost a single league game at home all season.
 
Can anyone here imagine Ed Woodward paying £40m to get this guy ? He would prefer for the money to buy popular player to increase the sales shirt .
 
Mogget said:
Spurs were never favourites to win today, what are you on? Chelsea have only lost a single league game at home all season.
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Picking a favorite to win is about their current forms each not about what they did previous months ago or records. United didn't win at the bridge for 6 years, does that mean we weren't favorite to defeat them at the last cup tie when we were in great form while they had just lost 6-0 to City ?

Chelsea are in trash form for some good time losing by embarrassing results and going to a big game with this form, the fans booing the manager and internal conflict between the manager and GK, yeah they weren't favorite at all unless you weren't following them.

There won't be an easier Chelsea side to defeat than the current one.
 
el3mel said:
Again you're missing the point. No one is asking for you to win the league. As far as I'm concerned no one has said here "He should be winning the league", but at the same time you're heavily downing the state of your team and squad to show him as if he's overachieving, as if losing to Burnley or the worst Chelsea side in years is completely fine for you and it's all thanks to the board and players while the manager has no role in losing against teams inferior or at the same strength as him, while United went there and walked the game with ease a week or so ago.

It looks like every win is thanks to him and every lose is thanks to the board and certain players. Doesn't make any kind of sense.

It's again back the point I mentioned several times here. Spurs only win when no one expect them to win and no pressure on them but once they're favorable to win a certain fixture or have the upper hand in a game, they proceed and lose even if their opponent is passing through its worst period ever. Today isn't an anomaly. It happened a lot previously and shows, again, that the guy can't deal with pressure or expectation.
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Losing to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is nothing to be fecking ashamed of, why are you so insistent this is like the worst result ever? They're not far off top 4 for god sake, not in a relegation scrap. The Burnley result is the kind of game that happens to a side every season, of course it's never good enough to lose them but you do, especially when you're not going to have the quality to overwhelm that type of team consistently.

There was little to no pressure on us today. We were out of the title race. We lost because of a lack of ideas and a lack of quality in certain areas which let us down, not because of the boring cliches people love about pressure and bottling. Yes, us being third and almost in to a CL quarter is laudable from Pochettino with this team, he's doing well to be where he is with the squad he has and in no universe should he be expected to be doing better. It's utterly ludicrous to be saying otherwise.

We're having a run of shit form, I imagine we will come out of it and end up comfortably in the top 4, which is us doing well this season.
 
I still think he's a brilliant manager and would do a great job here although at this stage I think Solskjaer has completely earned the job and will now rightly get it permanently. I think he's got to be careful though not to stay there too long and keep turning down opportunities to move on because unless suddenly Tottenham are going to start investing properly then this isn't a project that he's building, they feel more like a team that is hanging on largely due to the quality of his work.

Midway through the 2016/17 they beat Conte's Chelsea and looked like the best team in the country, certainly the best to watch, but since then they've lost Walker, Vertonghen and Lloris have got older, Rose isn't the same since his injury and the midfield which was so dominant and powerful with Dembele and Wanyama is now much less daunting with Winks and Sissoko in it. In most Tottenham games I've seen this season they've been a lot less convincing and often quite fortunate to win, if their results are starting to more accurately reflect their performances then they are in a fight to make the top 4.
 
el3mel said:
Picking a favorite to win is about their current forms each not about what they did previous months ago or records. United didn't win at the bridge for 6 years, does that mean we weren't favorite to defeat them at the last cup tie when we were in great form while they had just lost 6-0 to City ?

Chelsea are in trash form for some good time losing by embarrassing results and going to a big game with this form, the fans booing the manager and internal conflict between the manager and GK, yeah they weren't favorite at all unless you weren't following them.

There won't be an easier Chelsea side to defeat than the current one.
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Check the odds before the game then. Chelsea win was the most likely outcome and they were favourites.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Losing to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is nothing to be fecking ashamed of, why are you so insistent this is like the worst result ever? They're not far off top 4 for god sake, not in a relegation scrap. The Burnley result is the kind of game that happens to a side every season, of course it's never good enough to lose them but you do, especially when you're not going to have the quality to overwhelm that type of team consistently.

There was little to no pressure on us today. We were out of the title race. We lost because of a lack of ideas and a lack of quality in certain areas which let us down, not because of the boring cliches people love about pressure and bottling. Yes, us being third and almost in to a CL quarter is laudable from Pochettino with this team, he's doing well to be where he is with the squad he has and in no universe should he be expected to be doing better. It's utterly ludicrous to be saying otherwise.

We're having a run of shit form, I imagine we will come out of it and end up comfortably in the top 4, which is us doing well this season.
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As far as I'm concerned there haven't been a single loss in this thread that you were 'ashamed of'. Any loss and you say exactly the same excuses so I'm kinda lost in which kind of losses you would be 'ashamed of'. It seems to me you're completely fine losing to anyone, and the blame is always anyone's else bar the manager.

When will Poch start to get some blame for getting outplayed or losing in a game for you?
 
Revan said:
It's more that his doubters are placing those stupid expectations after he has built a stupid cult and is rated stupidly high for doing relatively nothing of note as a manager for 10 years.

If he was rated as let's say David Moyes (okay, that's harsh) or let's say Spalletti (okay, that is generous), then no one would have put those stupid expectations on him. But with stupid 'overratedness' come stupid expectations from his doubters, and stupid excuses from his cult.
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Wouldn't it make more sense to just ignore the 'overraters' and evaluate him dispassionately, instead of being driven to the other extreme?
 
el3mel said:
As far as I'm concerned there haven't been a single loss in this thread that you were 'ashamed of'. Any loss and you say exactly the same excuses so I'm kinda lost in which kind of losses you would be 'ashamed of'. It seems to me you're completely fine losing to anyone, and the blame is always anyone's else bar the manager.

When will Poch start to get some blame for getting outplayed or losing in a game for you?
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We weren't outplayed in either this or the Burnley game.

Pochettino will start getting criticism if we finish outside the top 4 or fail in our objectives. We're third and beat Dortmund 3-0, so no I'm not going to get on his back for losing some games when he has had zero investment, he's doing well to keep the team where we were last season (3rd) despite spending no money and losing Dembele, it's as simple as that.

Does Poch make some tactical errors I'm not happy with sometimes? Sure, but no more than other managers in the league. He's doing good work this season overall under difficult conditions where he's basically been told to work with what he has, even when players leave the club.
 
@SquishyMcSquish is having a bit of a mare and a meltdown.

Spurs have a good enough team to win trophies. And they’re consistently failing at winning trophies.

Jose Mourinho wins trophies with that team. Poch is failing. And he looks like El Chapo.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
We weren't outplayed in either this or the Burnley game.

Pochettino will start getting criticism if we finish outside the top 4 or fail in our objectives. We're third and beat Dortmund 3-0, so no I'm not going to get on his back for losing some games when he has had zero investment, he's doing well to keep the team where we were last season (3rd) despite spending no money and losing Dembele, it's as simple as that.

Does Poch make some tactical errors I'm not happy with sometimes? Sure, but no more than other managers in the league. He's doing good work this season overall under difficult conditions where he's basically been told to work with what he has, even when players leave the club.
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He has a certain problem in dealing with pressure and expectation which would be a serious issue if he moves to a big club and we're criticizing him for it. Maybe you're completely fine for considering the state of your club you believe it's at but for other big clubs who are linked to him as a future manager, it's completely fine as well to notice how his teams crumple once there's any sort of high expectation or pressure from the media to win or challenge for anything. The amount of time this happens you can't simply knock it out.

Again you can be fine with it, it's your club and if you're fine downing the state of your club that much, ok, but still for the neutrals or fans of other clubs linked to him, it's something to worry about and a reason to stay away from him.
 
el3mel said:
Picking a favorite to win is about their current forms each not about what they did previous months ago or records. United didn't win at the bridge for 6 years, does that mean we weren't favorite to defeat them at the last cup tie when we were in great form while they had just lost 6-0 to City ?

Chelsea are in trash form for some good time losing by embarrassing results and going to a big game with this form, the fans booing the manager and internal conflict between the manager and GK, yeah they weren't favorite at all unless you weren't following them.

There won't be an easier Chelsea side to defeat than the current one.
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Chelsea were massive favourites today and the most likely result to happen pre-game happened. What are you on about?
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Losing to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is nothing to be fecking ashamed of, why are you so insistent this is like the worst result ever? They're not far off top 4 for god sake, not in a relegation scrap. The Burnley result is the kind of game that happens to a side every season, of course it's never good enough to lose them but you do, especially when you're not going to have the quality to overwhelm that type of team consistently.

There was little to no pressure on us today. We were out of the title race. We lost because of a lack of ideas and a lack of quality in certain areas which let us down, not because of the boring cliches people love about pressure and bottling. Yes, us being third and almost in to a CL quarter is laudable from Pochettino with this team, he's doing well to be where he is with the squad he has and in no universe should he be expected to be doing better. It's utterly ludicrous to be saying otherwise.

We're having a run of shit form, I imagine we will come out of it and end up comfortably in the top 4, which is us doing well this season.
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Your main theory is that the board let Poch down, but they decided not to sign James Maddison because they believe all the players they have are better. So is he coaching them well and coming up with good tactics?
 
Vadim said:
@SquishyMcSquish is having a bit of a mare and a meltdown.

Spurs have a good enough team to win trophies. And they’re consistently failing at winning trophies.

Jose Mourinho wins trophies with that team. Poch is failing. And he looks like El Chapo.
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Yeah, thank god you're here to give your very well informed opinion on the team and provide glorious nuggets like this.

Jose Mourinho would last about 30 seconds in an interview, find out what our budget is, and feck right off out the door.
 
Don’t blame Poch thing the board let him down squad is wafer thin.

Don’t think he will be at spurs next season
 
RasTiaGba said:
Your main theory is that the board let Poch down, but they decided not to sign James Maddison because they believe all the players they have are better. So is he coaching them well and coming up with good tactics?
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The fact that many players have improved significantly under Pochettino and his coaching is generally considered excellent by people who should know would tell me that yes, he is coaching them well.

I don't think he's tactically a brilliant manager, but tactics were not the issue today and haven't been in most of our losses this season.
 
Poch does sound like a loser though talking about losses not being a big deal and the 10 year plan for the league


Certainly doesn't sound like a United manager
 
Poch seems to have had a breakdown since the Burnley loss.
It's ok, he has another 10 years to turn their terrible mentality around. No wonder the players look despondent.
How long can he live off of 12 months of transfer activity from 4 years ago?
 
Revan said:
@Amadaeus @SquishyMcSquish @GlastonSpur , how are you doing lads?
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Pochettino is a product of his own success. He is overachieving with this spurs side compared to Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal who are underachieving so far. You can’t spend 0 in a summer window and in the last five years less than half of what your rivals spent and expect to be in the top four. How he is even in third is beyond anyone expectation. As I stated before, their squad should be 5th or 6th place and that is a more accurate representation of their squad quality.

Today results against Chelsea just showed that. It was not a bad performance, but the difference in quality was clear to be seen. Anyone that has working eyes could have seen that. A midfield of Sissoko and winks are not going to trouble a rejuvenated Chelsea squad with a midfield of Kante(one of the best all action midfielder in the world), Jorginho(cost a ton), Kovacic(Real Madrid). That pair wouldn’t even make bench at their rival clubs. You can only do as good as the quality of the team you put out.
 
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Amadaeus said:
Pochettino is a product of his own success. He is overachieving with this spurs side compared to Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal who are underachieving so far. You can’t spent 0 in a summer window and in the last five years less than half of what your rivals spent and expect to be in the top four. How he is even in third is beyond anyone expectation. As I stated before, their squad should be 5th place and that is a more accurate representation of their squad quality.
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6th
 
I still don't think it's an overachievement for that Tottenham squad to be third, they have weaknesses along with some brilliant players.
 
Amadaeus said:
Pochettino is a product of his own success. He is overachieving with this spurs side compared to Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal who are underachieving so far. You can’t spend 0 in a summer window and in the last five years less than half of what your rivals spent and expect to be in the top four. How he is even in third is beyond anyone expectation. As I stated before, their squad should be 5th or 6th place and that is a more accurate representation of their squad quality.

Today results against Chelsea just showed that. It was not a bad performance, but the difference in quality was clear to be seen. Anyone that has working eyes could have seen that. A midfield of Sissoko and winks are not going to trouble a rejuvenated Chelsea squad with a midfield of Kante(one of the best all action midfielder in the world), Jorginho(cost a ton), Kovacic(Real Madrid). That pair wouldn’t even make bench at their rival clubs. You can only do as good as the quality of the team you put out.
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Well that´s not true. Alot of people expected them to fight for top three. Maybe even outsiders for the title. They´ve been top three for the last couple of seasons so why that´s beyond anyone´s expectation is beyond me...
 
Just took a look at the table and was surprised to see that Spurs has lost eight league games already this season. Despite the horrible start to our season, Utd has only lost five. They have zero draws though!
 
Tottenham not winning titles is because they never plan to do so at the start of the league.

When has anyone heard - Tottenham are going for the title this year at the start of the season & show that they are not willing to be a second rate team by any means?

They just go about their season with the target of top 4 or higher - finds themselves capable of winning the title - important matches come up and they fail.

Their season target needs to be addressed the moment the season starts and the moment the transfer window opens.

The manager could easily do this but refuses to do so almost due to a sense of pressure and fear.
 
Dec9003 said:
I still don't think it's an overachievement for that Tottenham squad to be third, they have weaknesses along with some brilliant players.
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But they finished behind us last season and didnt but any players while all the teams around them did.

Even we did with Fred, though that was clearly a cock up.

Their defense is clearly past its best. Toby was embarrassed by Pedro on his goal. And despite Kane and Son scoring, the contribution from the rest of the squad is lacking goals
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Board let Pochettino down big time in the summer, we've coped till now.

What, it's his fault we have to start Davies and Trippier who can barely play football right now? Or play a makeshift midfield because the board didn't want to spend a single penny in the summer? His fault Lloris is doing a casper the friendly ghost impression every week and letting every ball go fecking through him?

We have lots of players not good enough right now and no depth so they play anyway. Alli missing too and we have to turn to Lamela who is the dictionary definition of a headless chicken.

But yeah, let's blame him and call him a bottler and not a winner when he's the only manager in PL history to not be able to bring in a single player in an entire year. Quality stuff lads.
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Well he did sign a lot of the players you deem not good enough
 
Sky1981 said:
Always losing when the pressure is on.

For all the investment talk they lost against team they should beat aka Burnley and chelsea
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Burnley, sure, but Chelsea?
 
Ekeke said:
But they finished behind us last season and didnt but any players while all the teams around them did.

Even we did with Fred, though that was clearly a cock up.

Their defense is clearly past its best. Toby was embarrassed by Pedro on his goal. And despite Kane and Son scoring, the contribution from the rest of the squad is lacking goals
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The only reason why they are ahead of us in table is Jose. Since Ole took over, we have lost 4 points. Poch instead has lost 5 games (15 points) in the league (in addition to going out from both cups).
 
Revan said:
The only reason why they are ahead of us in table is Jose. Since Ole took over, we have lost 4 points. Poch instead has lost 5 games (15 points) in the league (in addition to going out from both cups).
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You have absolutely no idea how Ole or someone else would have done from the start of the season. We're still in his honeymoon phase, although the individual errors are starting to creep back in now.

Spurs clearly need some investment to go beyond 3rd. If they finish there again having spent nothing this season then its an achievement
 
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Ekeke said:
You have absolutely no idea how Ole or someone else would have done from the start of the season. We're still in his honeymoon phase, although the individual errors are starting to creep back in now.

Spurs clearly need some investment to go beyond 3rd. If they finish there again having spent nothing this season then its an achievement
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When does the honeymoon end? We have already played Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. We have had a much bigger injury crisis than Spurs and are doing fine.

If Ole finishes in top 3, considering the circumstances of trailing 3 teams with double digit points when he started, that would be a bigger achievement than anything Poch has done.
 
Bwuk said:
Getting dragged into a top 4 battle.

Lack of investment is what kills Spurs. Unless they spend big money they’ll never get to the next level.

Great side when everyone is fit and available but bar that the squad is a bit meh.

It’s hard to criticise him when he’s got a midfield of Sissoko and Winks in third place.
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We've had a midfield of Fred and McTominay, comfortably beating a team that defeated them. And before of that, we had a midfield of Pereira and McTominay, being the better team against Liverpool.

It can be done.
 
automaticflare said:
Don’t blame Poch thing the board let him down squad is wafer thin.

Don’t think he will be at spurs next season
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Where will he go if he's not at Spurs though? Unless we have a meltdown of our own he wont be here and Madrid wont pay to get him out of his contract at Spurs either.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
The fact that many players have improved significantly under Pochettino and his coaching is generally considered excellent by people who should know would tell me that yes, he is coaching them well.

I don't think he's tactically a brilliant manager, but tactics were not the issue today and haven't been in most of our losses this season.
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Spurs fans say that Poch has improved players

So if he has improved players, it's also a given that the squad value is higher than the value paid for these players.

One minute Spurs fans talk about their squad value as if they're Everton, the next they say Poch has developed the players into world class (which must mean they cost more now than the squad value you keep quoting)
 
charlenefan said:
Where will he go if he's not at Spurs though? Unless we have a meltdown of our own he wont be here and Madrid wont pay to get him out of his contract at Spurs either.
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Don't discount Florentino Perez thinking of doing just that. Pochettino would be pretty keen to leave Spurs if Real Madrid came calling.
 
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