The very definition of a pointless statistic.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
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The very definition of a pointless statistic.
We've looked easy to defend against for a while now. Probably the last time we've looked properly dangerous was Dortmund, and in the league probably Watford (where Lucas was key to this!).
Our gameplan is very much 'get it out to the fullbacks for a ball in', especially when we go 5 at the back, except it doesn't really work all that well when your fullbacks are Rose, Davies, Trippier or Aurier. Only 1 of these has a good cross on him (Trippier) and even then far too often makes the wrong decision.
Our attacking players seem totally dysfunctional right now, like they're afraid to shoot and simply can't find space in the box, which in part I do attribute to Eriksen looking like he can't be arsed and Alli being missing, thus our creativity is non existent. Son and Kane are great forwards but they require service or they'll be lost out there, the service in to both of them today and vs Chelsea/Burnley was pitiful. Kane right now is getting one chance a game.
We have two great forwards who simply aren't getting anything of any worth played in to them.
hardly pointless in the context of considering either for the managers job at United. Probably just you don't like the status because you're a spurs supporter.
No, it's up there with "Sherwood" statistics.
There is nothing that flatters the proposer when trying to state that a manager who has managed 12 games "has lost 0 games" is somehow comparable to one that has managed 29.
That's before you dissect the premise further, which from your statement suggests that United and Spurs are equals.
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Most of the attacking and defensive statistics favors Pochettino, which is what I meant by statistical battle. When a difference of opinion occurs, individuals can always fallback on stats to support their claim as I did with my argument.
The part about your fullback having space, doesn’t mean that they should waste an attacking opportunity. Which is why I stated that Pochettino is not controlling them like he is playing fifa. The manager did his part, when a player squandered a good chance, the manager can not take the blame for that. Had trippier passed back to Eriksen who was free in the box, the outcome of the game might have been more favorable to Spurs. If you played shite today as you claimed, the statistic would back your argument, but it didn’t. Pochettino has spoiled Spurs fan to think they are better than they actually are. They are good, but out of the top 6 side, I don’t believe they are better than the others with a fully fit team and when both side are inform.
I'm surprised at how He allowed them to get caught from a counter attack again. That Arsenal goal was similar to Rashford's goal. Their fullbacks always went up too high.
You completely ignore my questions towards trippier not passing to Eriksen.. The manager can only do as much as he can do and he did well to avoid a defeat and win the statistical battle. Rather than being 1 points behind Arsenal, they are four. Three ahead of United. With United playing Arsenal next week, that point can be very vital in your team staying in the top four. As I stated before, I m not only using statistic to back up my point but my view on the game as well. I rather have empirical evidence to back up my claims than just a subjective opinion. We have differences of opinion with regards to the red and it doesn’t look like none of us are budging in regards to how it happened.
Dude, are you for real? So basically, you are up for crediting Pochettino and willing to go into almighty stretches for it, then absolve him for any issues because hte manage rhas already done his point? It's beggar's belief that a red card challenge by Torreira is somehow the result of master tactical switch by Pochettino and the cunning of Danny fecking Rose.
WTF moment when Rose played as CM. Really Poch ? Almost cost the game. How many times did he lose the ball. Not playing Lucas was also a big issue .
Spurs fans- looks like you guys need a big investment this summer . Couple of midfielders ,2 full backs, replacement for Toby and probably a better back up for Kane.
Any chance Eriksen will be sold to fund it or you have money available ?
Spurs fans- looks like you guys need a big investment this summer . Couple of midfielders ,2 full backs, replacement for Toby and probably a better back up for Kane.
Any chance Eriksen will be sold to fund it or you have money available ?
My man
It's now a 4 way battle for the two UCL spots and Spurs aren't playing well at all.
Eriksen will be sold if he doesn't sign a new contract, but not because of funds, he will most likely have a contract offer around 200k if he wants to commit. But yes, I completely agree that we need some investment, and most spurs fans said so in the summer too. I don't think a replacement for Toby or back up for Kane is important though. Having a 'striker' who plays when Kane doesn't is a bad option imo, instead we need good attackers such as Son who can play up front and elsewhere. Our attackers are good enough to cover if Kane is missing though, and we don't need a 9 to function. Central defense is one of our stronger positions with Foyth, Sanchez and Verthongen with Davies/Dier as emergency cover. What we need as you say is midfield options and also fullbacks imo.
And the red card happened in 95th minute which makes it irrelevant anyway.
Him moving rose to the center was actually brilliant. It allowed the forward players to actually drift out wide due to the low block created by arsenal. Ofcourse rose isn’t quality so it didn’t really pan out but the idea was brilliant.
We’re all talking about how ineffective spurs were but arsenal were actually perfect defensively yesterday. The defense and midfield were all working together and not letting anything in.
What defensive statistics favour Pochettino? I've already explained why we would have more shots and possession, we're the home team and were behind for a large part of the game. Arsenal's gameplan was very clearly to frustrate us and work on the break, and Emery's tactics were a success in that respect. You can't credit Pochettino for managing to get a home side to dominate a team prepared to sit back and soak up pressure. You can fall back on stats but people should always be aware of the context of statistics because on their own they are utterly irrelevant. Having desperate shots like Lamela's long ranger yesterday still goes down as a shot statistically, but it was a moment of desperation not a show of Pochettino's tactical mastery.
You're completely overplaying how good Pochettino is, and that is from somebody who rates him INCREDIBLY highly, probably far more highly than a majority of people on this forum. He's not a magician, we have some very good players (particularly in an attacking sense) who are perfectly capable of playing better football than we did yesterday. Of course we played shite yesterday, Arsenal had the better clear cut chances, were on the front foot at the end despite us equalising, and were the only team to take the lead. We were poor, Arsenal didn't have a better starting 11 out than us yesterday. That's ok because all teams and managers go through periods of bad form and it isn't the end of the world, but this utter denial that Pochettino wasn't on his A game and his team played poorly is really, really weird. Nobody who watched that game last night, Spurs fan or otherwise, can possibly have thought afterwards that we put in a good performance. You're saying I'm spoiled because what, I'd like more than 1 clear cut chance a game at home? Come on. It's not spoiled to admit the manager and team got it wrong in a game.
As a manager you can't do much when the game has started, you're right that he can't control the players. However, he was responsible for setting up in a back 5 (which was very ineffective, we didn't need the spare cb yesterday) and maintained that system throughout, he was responsible for moving Rose to CM, and responsible for bringing on the totally ineffective Llorente when he had other options. We've brought on Llorente in the past under similar circumstances and it has worked maybe once in about 10-12 games. These were poor tactical choices which failed to have a positive impact, and he has to be held somewhat accountable for that, like all managers do.
It's not a brilliant move when every Spurs fan could have told you how Rose would perform in midfield. Yeah if we had a left back capable of playing CM like Alaba it would have been 'brilliant', but we don't, and Pochettino knows we don't because he's been working with Rose for years. We have a left back who consistently makes the wrong decisions and doesn't really possess any exceptional technical ability, a left back who has never actually played any position other than LM/LB.
As a result, he kept giving the ball away and nearly cost us a goal, as well as booting it out from a good position because (shock) he's not the best passer of the ball. Good ideas on paper aren't good ideas at all if you don't actually have the tools to make it work.
Arsenal were good defensively (Sokratis in particular) but everything was played in front of them, aside from when we managed to get Trippier in to some good wide positions. It's easy to defend against us when Eriksen is well off his game of late and Wanyama/Sissoko don't have a creative bone in their body. There was nothing in behind them and most of our play was ultra slow and predictable, just like it was against Burnley and Chelsea, who also looked brilliant defensively because again, we're easy to play against right now.
We need Alli back as soon as possible so we can drop Eriksen deeper, and a shift back to a 4-2-3-1. My lineup right now against most sides would be: Lloris, Aurier, Toby, Vertonghen, Rose, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli, Lucas, Kane, Son, the midfield will be hideously open and we will concede goals but we will at least possess some invention in midfield. With Son/Lucas in proper wide positions we'll also have two players who want to attack their fullback (which we badly needed against Mustafi) and perhaps some actual service in to Kane, who I always feel operates best as a lone striker with Alli creating space behind him.
I don’t know what you are on about. What almighty stretches did I made? I have criticized pochettino before and I don’t absolve him of any issue.
Considering the red wouldn’t have happened without that change Pochettino made, he deserve some credit for it. But, that is just one of many points about the positive influence that changed made.
Aerials won, dispossession, and possession can be counted as defensive statistic that favored Pochettino. Some teams who plays at home don’t always have favorable possessions statistic. When spurs played United at our home, you guys had more possession. The same can be said when Liverpool or Manchester city play tough opposition away. It is more down to the managerial philosophy than home favorability. Arsenal are a possession based team, Pochettino tactics made them to sit back, so it was done based on pochettino tactical play.
The 11 was fairly even, but Arsenal had the much better resources available to choose from to alter the game later on. Their midfield was stronger and if you take into account form and confidence, then Arsenal was more favorable to win this game. How pochettino managed to control the game with a midfield as average as the one he put out was incredible. It is spoiled by thinking that you are entitled to a victory towards a very tough Arsenal side who was flying high before this game. I expected spurs to lose and their fans should be glad they are still four points ahead of fifth place.
You claim that the back five was very ineffective but at the end of the day, you still got a result. You claim that Llorente was ineffective but on another day, he might have gotten a goal from a set piece as he did when he came on versus Dortmund. Not all managers are Nostradamus and some players are capable of doing well if things go there way during the game. I have underrated Llorente many times and he has definitely surprised me with s goal. No doubt he could have done the same if he came on.
So this thread is still serious? Ok then...
Yea alright, It would have been the best tactical change if only the defender didn't do his job. Alright guy.
Pochettino's tactics didn't make Arsenal sit back, it was clearly a tactical instruction from Emery to sit on the break and play less on the front foot than usual .. hence why Ozil and Aubameyang were dropped. They surrendered a lot of the ball and this became even more the case when they scored early, a team who scores early naturally sits further back and is happy for the opposition to hold on to the ball in their own half. Not that having the ball is itself a virtue, or people would be rating Sarri or Van Gaal a hell of a lot higher, we've had plenty of games with most of the ball and nothing to show for it.
Who the hell is entitled? I didn't think we were entitled to anything, I was worried about this game! I do however think you're completely overrating Arsenal who are generally hideous away from home and regularly get batterings from the rest of the top six away from the Emirates. Guendouzi, Xhaka and Ramsey is a bang average midfield of their own, so let's not pretend there is some huge gap there. We managed to 'control' the midfield again because Arsenal were happy for us to have the ball and play it in front of their defence, knowing we lacked the creativity to do anything with it. Sissoko & Wanyama may have limitations but they're not being bullied off the ball. Also, our fans ARE glad to be where we are, I've spoken a million times about how overall this has been a great season, but taking this game in isolation I think Pochettino made errors. That's all, no big toys out of the pram overreaction, just a different view of this game to you.
We got a draw at home to a side lower in the table than us, why are you continuing to act like we got some great result? Honestly we needed a win here, with the draw we're sucked straight in to the top 4 race still needing to go to the Etihad and Anfield. The result we needed was a win, we didn't get that, most of the top six win their home games against their rivals, Chelsea and Arsenal already beat us at the Emirates/Stamford Bridge. Llorente WAS ineffective, and the fact he got a goal vs Dortmund doesn't change that. That was maybe the first or second time that substitution has ever worked because it forces us to play a style we're uncomfortable with, you could see how we started to lose our heads when he came on because we were playing desperate balls over the top. Lucas would have provided a player capable of getting at a defence, kept us playing the ball on the ground and given something for Arsenal to worry about in behind, he's a better player than Llorente.
Honestly, I'll leave it there. Bottom line is you think that Pochettino had a great game because we had possession and won some aerial duels, and I disagree. All about opinions and what I saw was not a team who were really in control of the game despite having the ball, and substitutions which failed to have a positive impact. We're also fundamentally never going to agree that a point at home vs Arsenal after we've lost 2 in a row is a good result, we needed to properly bounce back here and distance ourselves from the battle again, and we fialed to do that and had Aubameyang scored his penalty, would be in a disastrous position.
you must not have read my entire post detailing why it would be a great tactical change as beside moving verthogen out wide, it also showed the capabilities to challenge normative way of thinking which many great managers are capable of doing. Pushing a left back to cm is unorthodox and could have been a game changer had Kolshieny not perfectly read the cross and more minutes were added to the game. As Ole stated after playing Liverpool, “Liverpool are one dimensional.” Such a criticism is something a lot of managers don’t want to hear and pochettino definitely was not one dimensional this game.
You can believe that, but Arsenal is known for their possession based football and if they had intention of sitting back rather than controlling the game, they would have employed Auba from the beginning to utilize his pace rather than a midfield trio and attacking players who are more suitable for a possession based game plan. Plus with the amount of times they stole possession from Spurs that quashed the myth that they wanted to sit back and give spurs possession.
Yes, Ramsey who is going to Juventus and becoming one of the highest paid players in Seria A and one of the best young midfielder in football is a bang average midfield. Even though I don’t rate Xhaxa, at least he has a good range of passing and is a leader on the pitch for them. Even then, it was still a better midfield than Spurs.I already quashed the myth that they sit back in the above post, with the amount of tackles made by Arsenal to quell the rumor that they were content with just sitting back.
After a potential lost, a draw is a good result for your side after back to back defeat. As I stated, Arsenal maybe lower in the table than you, but that doesn’t represent their true quality. Arsenal have a better team not just 11 then Spurs and in reality, they should be above you. Same with Chelsea, but because you are well managed, you are somehow still in top four. Lucas has come on many times before and offered nothing. Llorente at least give you guys a different approach to attack with set piece and long ball when plan a or b is not working. It showed tactical flexibility by pochettino. We can disagree about whether pochettino had a terrible game or whatever pochettino had a good or decent managerial gameplan, but as I stated before the stats backs my claim more than it does yours.
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Auba doesn't track back. He's also a great option to bring on late against tired defences. What, because a team are winning the ball when we got it around the edge it means they weren't happy to surrender possession? Did you genuinely see a possession based gameplan from Arsenal?!
Just because Ramsey is going to be on a big wage for Serie A (because he's a free) doesn't suddenly turn him in to some great player, he's not. Guendouzi the best young midfielder in world football?! The feck? It's a better central midfield than us overall, but Eriksen is better than Ramsey and Sissoko/Wanyama isn't all that much worse than Xhaka/Guendouzi.
It's not. When you lose back to back you want to win, not get a draw at home, Poch will not be happy with that result. They aren't a better 11 than us, have better squad options but they do not have a better starting XI, we fundamentally disagree on that. Lucas has come on lots of times before and offered something, more so than Llorente, and has 6 league goals. He's a better player and would also have given us a different approach as he's a player who takes on defences and gets in behind, but also allows you to keep playing it on the ground, which is where we're best.
You seem determined at all lengths to play down the players we have to hype up Poch, and this is again coming from someone who does believe that he's getting the best out of the squad. Again, the stats don't support your claims because despite all our possession Arsenal managed more shots on target and more clear sights on goal overall. We basically had one proper moment (with the double save from leno) where we looked dangerous, and then got an equaliser off an offside set piece.
If that's genius tactics to you then fine, whatever. The point of football is to score and not concede, not concede early and then dominate the ball whilst barely threatening your opponent.
Not to mention misleading.
That said, no to Poch at OT. Ole is a much better choice for us.
Since when do we regard Aubameyang as a super sub now? One of the leading goalscorer should be always starting in my own opinion. In a counter attacking side, the attackers don’t need to ‘track back.’ They remain forward to attack when the opposition lose the ball. That is there duty in a counter attacking team. I saw Pochettino negating Arsenal main gameplan due to having better managerial structure he deployed.
Even without his wage at Juventus, Ramsey is a great midfielder. I m surprised you don’t consider him one. Yes Guendouzi is easily in the top 5 young holding midfielder in the world. Who do you see better at that age? I would say, Ramsey and Eriksen are around even with Eriksen being only slightly better. No top clubs would have Wanyama and Sissoko starting, whereas Ghendouzi is a possibility with Xhahka already that same level as Wanyama and Sissoko.
Football is not the simple. Of course most team would take a win after suffering back to back defeat, but football doesn’t work that way. Arsenal just thrashed Bournemouth 5-1, a team Man City only beat 1-0. They were on a high, while Spurs has suffered one of their worst week. Motivating the players to come and perform against this Arsenal and get a result is good overall for pochettino who loss his last two games. Spurs already had players on the pitch who can take players on, but none who could command the air like Llorente. The substitute was to give an another alternative to their attack after plan A was not troubling Arsenal defense as much.
I already stated the multiple stats that does support my claim and those stats showed more dominance in attack and defense. The shot on Target stats was only 1point difference, so it is hardly supports your claim. Pochettino tactics was not terrible which was my point not that it was amazing or genius tactical play.
Yes because if he wasn’t he wouldn’t be going to a top club like Juventus
Emre Can is also world class then, in your view?
Juventus love a free. Khedira isn't a world class midfielder either.
Ramsey is decent, nothing more or less, he's just a good midfielder. He's not close to as good as Eriksen and I don't think even some of the more biased Arsenal fans would think otherwise. You're deliberately playing down our players to a silly degree in order to make out Pochettino is some kind of magician .. he's a very, very good coach who has done fantastic work but some of our players are simply class, Eriksen is one of those.
Others like Trippier, Davies, Wanyama (these days) ?? Not so much.
You're wasting your time, he's in love with Pochettino and there's nothing you can say to change his opinion. His posts have become an embarrassment, people just mostly laugh at him.
And I assume Bebe is world class to because he went to United. Ramsey has established himself as a good player and people who understand football notice his accomplishments. Using Emre can is ridiculous as not all good players go to top club, but a lot of good players do go to top clubs and that is what Ramsey is, a good player. He is a more capable goslscorer than Eriksen and he is more than decent. However, can you re-read my post? I never said Ramsey was better than Eriksen, but moreso around that level with Eriksen being slightly better. You may have bias to Eriksen since you are a spurs fan but from a neutral perspective and from someone with excellent judgment as mine, that is how I see the two players.Yea, because your counter argument is nothing substantial. You can make false claims, but most poster did the same thing when I had similar argument in regards to ranieri and I couldn’t stop laughing after the season that occurred after his title season one. Plus, this is not my first rodeo, I have had many argument before and most of the time I end up right.
You are not neutral, you have an agenda.
EDIT : excellent judgement my arse
EDIT : excellent judgement my arse
Amadeus is a parody at this point.
This Amadeus fella is absolutely mental.
Humble too.
You are not neutral, you have an agenda.
EDIT : excellent judgement my arse
my post showcase otherwise with no evidence to showcase that I am not. If there is empirical evidence to challenge my non-neutrality then I would admit I am wrong and my judgement was clouded. Yet, I m the only one that is providing evidence to support my claim whereas others are mainly using their subjective opinion.
It is what happens when you have had many arguments on here before and ends up right a lot of time.
I think it is almost inevitable he will move to a bigger club than Spurs as he has already hit the glass ceiling there.
Worst poster in the Caf.
You have a lot of patience, that's for sure.
I mean, I'm also a big fan of Pochettino but this is verging on Messi/Ronaldo debate levels.
It's weird, I mean I don't even know any Arsenal fans who think Ramsey is close to Eriksen, it's one of those where I feel like it's clear as day when you watch the two players that one is a class above. If you genuinely think otherwise it's hard not to think there is some agenda at play.
And I genuinely rate Ramsey and think they'll miss him, he's a solid player with a good skillset.
You're right, Ramsey's a great player and it's so daft of Arsenal to let him go given they don't have anyone to replace him.
But he's clearly a level or two below Eriksen. I don't think any top club would choose R over E if given the pick of those players.
Seems like it. I won an argument with the humble guy 20 pages back and he moved nicely along in bliss. Clearly a wind up artist, it says right there. Pochettino fan.