A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Great to see our manager passing whatever tests are set by Man Utd supporters. I'm sure that will make all the difference to him for next season as Spurs manager.
 
Moyes was hired on potential. So was Sarri. There is a reason big clubs target winners from outside their ranks. And only dare to trust potential fron their ranks

So was sir Alex, Zidane pep and so many others. LVG hired as a winner and Jose as well.

I think to most it's pretty obvious poch can win a trophy but they're waiting for some arbitrary color pass that he does it. Whether or not we should get him over ole is a different question but the irony is Ole hasn't won anything at the top level either.

Must we wait till he wins stuff with Totenham and the ship has sailed? I'm not fully convinced poch is the guy over ole but not having won trophies is a useless barometer in this case. We know he can win.
 
For some people, Ole has to win the CL before he is considered a possibility. I don't see why the same standard should not apply to Poch.
 
To think after hanging on for dear life for our 1-0 win at wembley the other week, there were dozens on here claiming Poch to be tactically inept in the big games and Ole was just far more astute.
 
So was sir Alex, Zidane pep and so many others. LVG hired as a winner and Jose as well.

I think to most it's pretty obvious poch can win a trophy but they're waiting for some arbitrary color pass that he does it. Whether or not we should get him over ole is a different question but the irony is Ole hasn't won anything at the top level either.

Must we wait till he wins stuff with Totenham and the ship has sailed? I'm not fully convinced poch is the guy over ole but not having won trophies is a useless barometer in this case. We know he can win.
He can win but somehow he doesn't. Don't get me wrong, he's a great manager but point stands, he has yet to come even close to a trophy. Also that logic about just give him 200 million if he'll even come and he'll do wonders is a bit wrong. Different club, different circumstances.
 
To think after hanging on for dear life for our 1-0 win at wembley the other week, there were dozens on here claiming Poch to be tactically inept in the big games and Ole was just far more astute.
I don't remember any comments like that, might have missed it.
 
To think after hanging on for dear life for our 1-0 win at wembley the other week, there were dozens on here claiming Poch to be tactically inept in the big games and Ole was just far more astute.

Don't think so, think most people were saying Poch changed things up at halftime and Ole didn't do anything to change things and we were hanging on, survived due to De Gea's brilliance and sprinkling of luck?
 
Personally not convinced by poch or ole. No idea where we go from here but we can’t keep sacking managers. The huge problem we have now is that players have won (throwing jose under the bus) and have player power, which is a very slippery slope and leaves united in a very difficult position. Yet another situation our pathetic ceo has got us into. For things to even start getting better Woodward needs to go.
 
To think after hanging on for dear life for our 1-0 win at wembley the other week, there were dozens on here claiming Poch to be tactically inept in the big games and Ole was just far more astute.
No one said that. People recognized he'd positively affected the game with his half time tweaks
 
Personally not convinced by poch or ole. No idea where we go from here but we can’t keep sacking managers. The huge problem we have now is that players have won (throwing jose under the bus) and have player power, which is a very slippery slope and leaves united in a very difficult position. Yet another situation our pathetic ceo has got us into. For things to even start getting better Woodward needs to go.

Good point about the player power.
 
The job he's doing at Spurs is nothing short of brilliant, I'm a bit envious I must admit.
I respect your opinion

But mine is that the 'incredible job he's doing' will look mediocre in the history books when Spurs still haven't won the league and abandoned the FA cup and won't win the CL

It's easy to sit at a club like Spurs and pretend you're doing a 5 year project where you'll be Real Madrid in 5 years

But at Man Utd you need to win something every season
 
I respect your opinion

But mine is that the 'incredible job he's doing' will look mediocre in the history books when Spurs still haven't won the league and abandoned the FA cup and won't win the CL

It's easy to sit at a club like Spurs and pretend you're doing a 5 year project where you'll be Real Madrid in 5 years

But at Man Utd you need to win something every season
Those days are gone about united having to win every season. Not in this new day and age of financial giants. Anyway Spurs are doing a great job in the CL and the league. If it's not us I want them to win. Let's hope PL teams advance to the round of 8 although united obviously are out of their depth.
 
No Kane, no problem. If I was Ed, I'd do everything to get him and Son. Wasn't so sure of him before but slowly he's starting to convince me.
 
I would love Ole to get it for the romance, but poch is easily one of the best managers in the world - yes you can say knee jerk, but still, even fergie called him the best in the league (before Pep and Klopp joined)
 
Those days are gone about united having to win every season. Not in this new day and age of financial giants. Anyway Spurs are doing a great job in the CL and the league. If it's not us I want them to win. Let's hope PL teams advance to the round of 8 although united obviously are out of their depth.
Realistically we need a title challenge, FA cup win, or CL run every season

The pressure here is far higher than at Spurs and we can't abandon a single competition like Spurs do.

'Financial wins' work for a small provincial club like Spurs are to an extent in the biggest league, but the biggest club in the world Man Utd have fans who demand titles and glory.

We need to rotate a squad and apart from 3 players who are good, squad players who have been under Poch's tutelage like years like Nkoudou aren't rotated.

Poch doesn't rotate the squad so much and this is why he abandons the cup.
 
PSG are about two levels above Dortmund even with injuries.

Ole is held to this standard where if he doesn't beat one of the best 3/4 clubs in the world in his first 3 months he's not as good as Poch

Whereas Poch is labelled as a footballing genius and the next Pep for beating a club with less talent than his own club

Ole would lose all his hype straight away if he didn't do what Poch did tonight, with the squad Poch has built for years, and people hail Poch as if he won the world cup final tonight
 
Realistically we need a title challenge, FA cup win, or CL run every season

The pressure here is far higher than at Spurs and we can't abandon a single competition like Spurs do.

'Financial wins' work for a small provincial club like Spurs are to an extent in the biggest league, but the biggest club in the world Man Utd have fans who demand titles and glory.

We need to rotate a squad and apart from 3 players who are good, squad players who have been under Poch's tutelage like years like Nkoudou aren't rotated.

Poch doesn't rotate the squad so much and this is why he abandons the cup.
With the Mgr and tactics Spurs have at the moment they look much more likely to be in the running for those three competitions than united. Don't you agree? Realistically you need to get your mojo back and that might take some time.
 
He can win but somehow he doesn't. Don't get me wrong, he's a great manager but point stands, he has yet to come even close to a trophy. Also that logic about just give him 200 million if he'll even come and he'll do wonders is a bit wrong. Different club, different circumstances.

That somehow is what needs to be analyzed not just "men doesnt win".
 
His next challenge will be to get his team to play his way from the start. First half they certainly weren't an offensive team. A lot of passing the ball around the back 4. It is easy when you get the first goal, Dortmund opened up and Spurs hit them on the counter. Not to dissimilar to what happened last night. The ref was very good this game, fair and consistent.

His next challenge will be to come back from a goal down against a real top team. Has lots to prove, but this was a very strong result.
Not offensive first half? Can't a team feel another team out for a bit and work themselves into a match? It's what PSG did last night though some on here will look at it as Man Utd having the better of things. This is a two-legged tie which cannot be won (for the most part) in the first leg but can be thrown away by giving up cheap away goals.

Spurs played this exact way in CL last year in games where they were unfavored; conservative and absorb pressure and look to counter in the first half. In the second half turn up the press and move the backline higher to compress the field. The team played according to plan utilizing the evidence of past games ie they did play his way from the start. And every team is surprised by the pressure and the fitness.
 
Poch is further along the learning curve than Ole and that gives him a greater pedigree especially in Europe. If you look at Poch's game management it has improved vastly this season.I remember a time when there were people calling him a one trick pony because of his inability to adapt during a game. Yesterday we saw that same naivety with Ole but he will learn as time passes as Pochettino did.

My real question is whether Ole is as good of a coach as Poch in terms of improving players. Maybe it's the case that spurs are a system based team whereas Utd so far under Ole seem to be more individualistic. However I can't help but feel that Poch would get more out of our wider squad because his philosophy relies more on the collective rather than individual talent.
 
While Poch deserves the plaudits for todays' win, this forum is equally frustrating nowadays when posters start pouncing on our win (OGS in) or defeat (Poch in) after *every* game. Remember Dortmund were without some of their first team squad players too - and were playing away.

That said, OGS's record so far is equally impressive + has a utd mentality.

Spurs are just glorified arsenal at this point - winning games, but not silverware. Let's judge towards the end of the season.

Judging over a longer period is defo a better idea. The one thing I can say though is that both teams went into half time at 0-0. The difference is we lost two of our attackers during the game which ruined our game plan, Spurs whilst they had Kane and Alli out, they still had a pre-game plan which would have been hurt if they lost Eriksen and Lucas at half time too. (they did afterall score with their first shot on target)

But on top of that, their first goal came from a superb cross (which im sure Shaw in the same position ends up hitting their player hah)

That shouldnt be held against Poch (nor Ole).


Saying that, fantastic job by Spurs and him in terms of what they achieved (esp with Kane and Alli out). Dortmunt arent any jobber european team. I expected them to score and to shut them out is fantastic. And to score 3 on top of that is icing.
 
So was sir Alex, Zidane pep and so many others.

Sir Alex was a proven winner. Even at European level. He does not count as just potential

Its a Sacchi who was but he eas an anomaly.

Zidane was a hire from the ranks. Just like I stated. He wasnt given a chance after merely showing potential else where....


LVG hired as a winner and Jose as well.
In spite of underwhelming they still won things. At big clubs you need to a) win whilst overwhelming. (Aka winning and win with flair)
B) perform (a ) Even in the middle of rebuilds.
Or get replaced.


I think to most it's pretty obvious poch can win a trophy but they're waiting for some arbitrary color pass that he does it.
There is absolutely nothing to back up the notion he can win trophies. Its embarassing how his fans constantly pretend that us not the case. It isnt an arbitrary stipulation or 'color pass' that a given manager should prove a winner before beong handed a job in which winning is a bare minimum.


Whether or not we should get him over ole is a different question but the irony is Ole hasn't won anything at the top level either.
Huh? Ole has :

1. already experienced being a winner as a player at the top level.
2. has been groomed in the very environment he is aiming to boss long term. He is basically an appointment from the ranks like a Pep or Zidane were .
3. Has actually proved he can win things. Even at a lower level than he is at now as a manager.

A Poch in comparison was neither a winner as a player nor has he done it as a manager either. At any level

That is why a Solari, a Pep, a Zidane and in all possibility a Solksjaer, if he passes the tests before him, will always have a better chance of being hired on their potential by big clubs. Because the know that environment intimately.

Potential from out dont.
Must we wait till he wins stuff with Totenham and the ship has sailed? I'm not fully convinced poch is the guy over ole but not having won trophies is a useless barometer in this case. We know he can win.
No. We really do NOT have any evidence he can win trophies. All we have is evidence he can win matches. Big clubs do not judge you on merely winning matches. That is one thing Pochetino will have to prove before most major club attempt to snatch him

That is why I personally hope he resists all attempts to take him from Spurs. Till he suceeds in turning his work into a trophy win or two. Bigger clubs are the type to discard him at the first chance if things are not immediate for him and to me he doesn't need that shit at this stage of his career
 
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Honestly had the feeling the caf sentiment would swing back to Poch once the CL resumed. Poch still my pick regardless of kneejerk opinions. Ole has taken an existing template and refined it. Poch I feel made his from scratch. He is further along the curve

Edit: this 'winning things' argument has to be the most vague, unquantifiable, noncredible reason to disqualify Poch in a comparison with Ole. They haven't won anything significant
 
Poch is further along the learning curve than Ole and that gives him a greater pedigree especially in Europe. If you look at Poch's game management it has improved vastly this season.I remember a time when there were people calling him a one trick pony because of his inability to adapt during a game. Yesterday we saw that same naivety with Ole but he will learn as time passes as Pochettino did.

My real question is whether Ole is as good of a coach as Poch in terms of improving players. Maybe it's the case that spurs are a system based team whereas Utd so far under Ole seem to be more individualistic. However I can't help but feel that Poch would get more out of our wider squad because his philosophy relies more on the collective rather than individual talent.

Some good points and it's too emotive at the moment to have the debate given Ole is one of ours. The thing for me is I think Poch ceiling is higher than Ole's cause as you say he's further on in his development. what he's done with some very average players is remarkably and you'd have to ask yourself with the right backing and the existing cornerstone of the team, what he could achieve here....
 
For some people, Ole has to win the CL before he is considered a possibility. I don't see why the same standard should not apply to Poch.

I'm veering more and more onto keeping on Ole after the summer, but it's fairly clear why people would be more keen on a PL manager who's been consistently doing a great job at Spurs for nigh-on half a decade now over someone who's had a good stint for us but who could be potentially benefiting from a purple patch after how dire we were under Mourinho. Ole's done everything right so far, but there have been plenty of cases of managers who came in at the halfway point, stabilised things, but then struggled to continue that momentum they'd built after the summer.
 
Since Poch took over Spurs:

Liverpool roughly 570mil
Man utd roughly 600mil
Man City roughly 740mil
Chelsea roughy 750mil

In that time Poch has spent around 250mil. It's a miracle he is competing at the top of the PL.

Ironically it's also leaves a question mark over Poch. We don't know how the hell he would do with a much bigger budget!
 
Credit where it's due but Dortmund have Reus injured and there's a rumour their squad have a flu bug, so ...

If Ole played Dortmund and didn't turn it around in the second half then he'd probably lose the job and it isn't some miracle work

Rues has been injured nearly all his career. Quality player but you can't use his absence as an excuse considering he's always missing.
 
Spurs in the mix to top the P.L and almost at the last 8 of the C.L and it is all down to the manager and what he has been doing since he came to them. He can build a squad who's capable to challenge without going crazy in the market. Wonder if he has a good budget to spend then!
 
Not offensive first half? Can't a team feel another team out for a bit and work themselves into a match? It's what PSG did last night though some on here will look at it as Man Utd having the better of things. This is a two-legged tie which cannot be won (for the most part) in the first leg but can be thrown away by giving up cheap away goals.

Spurs played this exact way in CL last year in games where they were unfavored; conservative and absorb pressure and look to counter in the first half. In the second half turn up the press and move the backline higher to compress the field. The team played according to plan utilizing the evidence of past games ie they did play his way from the start. And every team is surprised by the pressure and the fitness.
1. Nope.
2. Sound like coming right out of Mourinho's mouth.
3. His way of playing is to not start games dominating but rather wait for an opponent to make a mistake then punish them. Or did I misunderstand? I really think people will be moaning about his style of play at United. He will have a different set of players here, and I'm not sure they can do much different than they did under Mourinho. Lethargic play, lack of movement is things our players struggles with. How Spurs played in the first half would emphasise our weaknesses.