Actually think we're on the right path, finally. After 6 years of appointing the wrong manager, we have the right candidates here in Poch and Ole. Get a DoF in and either of them and I'll be happy.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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Actually think we're on the right path, finally. After 6 years of appointing the wrong manager, we have the right candidates here in Poch and Ole. Get a DoF in and either of them and I'll be happy.
We did well in Europe last year to top a group with Real Madrid and Dortmund before narrowly losing to Juventus in a close game. First two years we didn't do well and Poch was at times naive in the big games imo, and also we lacked experience. It took City some time to get a foothold in Europe as well.
I completely agree with you though, it's impossible to compare the two. all I will say is that Pochettino is a world class manager in my mind, while Ole is a somewhat unknown quantity who have done extremely so far.
If United make him their No1 target for the manager's job, if Spurs grant permission for him to speak to United, will he want the job ?
He might well see it as an opportunity to reach heights not possible at Spurs, but if he did come to OT, I'm sure Spurs would put a block on any United bids for the best players or put ridiculously high price tags on them.
I think the thing to bear in mind would be that he isn't a guy with a proven track record in terms of trophies and he would need a couple of years to build a team.
He might well see it as an opportunity to reach heights not possible at Spurs, but if he did come to OT, I'm sure Spurs would put a block on any United bids for the best players or put ridiculously high price tags on them.
I think the thing to bear in mind would be that he isn't a guy with a proven track record in terms of trophies and he would need a couple of years to build a team.
True. They also managed the Sancho threat very well in the second half. I think Poch must have realised the damage he could have caused, and how freely he was able to play in the first half.
I hope we go for Sancho. The dude is incredible.
Agree, can't slam Ole for the PSG result. It took Poch years to get to grips with Europe. Hell, it took Fergie years to get to grips with Europe at the highest level.
He really is a ridiculous manager.
I think he’s fantastic and if you granted me the wish today, I’d love him as our next manager (and I really love Ole and wouldn’t have a problem with him either.) My nightmare scenario is getting lead down the Sergio Ramos path, so to speak, where we go all in for him, only to be rejected (either he stays with Spurs or goes to Real, for example), while also losing the chance to have Ole as our manager. Of course, they are not the only two who can lead this team, but starting from square 1 again is an ominous thought.
This. Spurs have had their share of failures in Europe and let's not forget that they are only playing Dortmund now because Inter completely and utterly bottled their final group stage game at home to PSV.
He's a great manager but let's not pretend like he's had a massive amount of European success. They were good in Europe last year but quite naive which is why they lost to Juve. They have not actually been that good in CL this year until yesterday and even last night things could have gone differently with a little bit of Dortmund luck in the first half.
We will decide at the end of season whether we want to hire Poch or keep Ole, I am completely fine with both choices. I don't think we'll be going wrong with either choice, it's only if we turn to someone like Allegri that will frustrate me.
Spurs would not have had any troubles to go through if they had managed to beat Inter in the first game as the clearly better team.
It is not only because of the last 2 evenings that I think Pochettino is on another level as a manager compared to Ole. Spurs have been punching above their weight for quite a few years now.
Not only that it seems that also the players respect him and the mood is great there as some of them could have easily left for more money.
That being said I do not think we have a realistic chance to get him this summer.
Woodward needs to ask himself a simple but important question of which scenario he would think is best:
1) Keep Ole, and let Poch go to another club (Madrid more than likely). Ole may fail in next couple years and the chance to get Poch has gone.
2) Get Poch, and thus have a more experienced but a manager who has potential with the right tools. If it fails Ole would always be there to get, along with Phelen as they love the club.
I would choose option 2) if I was Woodward.
1) Keep Ole, and let Poch go to another club (Madrid more than likely). Ole may fail in next couple years and the chance to get Poch has gone.
2) Get Poch, and thus have a more experienced but a manager who has potential with the right tools. If it fails Ole would always be there to get, along with Phelen as they love the club.
I would choose option 2) if I was Woodward.
I stand corrected. So it is one tie in 4 years. Was that EL in the same year that Gent/k happened?
Well, they did lose that game and if we lost in a similar manner under Ole he would get criticized for this as well. Fine margins.
Of course he's on another level currently, he's been managing in a top league for the best part of the last decade. The last two night did not prove it to me though, what they proved is that United do not have a squad to compete with the best while Spurs do.
If we really want him, we will get him I think.
Well if Poch goes to Madrid he's going to be available in two years anyway. Probably more available than he is now.
Do you really think our players are that much worse compared 1:1?
Yes. They've also not been managed well as a unit either. Massive difference in defence which is very important.
Also, yesterday's game was quite close at half time with neither side deserving a goal - if anything Dortmund came closer to scoring. They pushed the pace in the second half and got two key goals in the last 10 minutes. I'm also pretty sure if Poch had Eriksen and Son go down with injuries at half time he would have struggled to have them come out all guns blazing in the second half, which on top of the fact that PSG are miles better and more experienced than Dortmund, makes those games very difficult to compare.
People always talk about Poch developing a squad but Spurs signed Eriksen 6 years ago
He is a one of a kind player you wouldn't be able to sign for cheap now even from Ajax where they signed him
Kane and Alli are youth players who let's face it were always going to be good unless their manager was an amateur
Son is about the only good player you can directly attribute to Poch. Maybe Sanchez.
Vertonghen moved to Spurs before Eriksen did and is another 'club signing'.
Let's face it, he couldn't have walked into a higher quality squad than he did at Spurs.
I'd like to see him make the same achievement with Arsenal in a parallel world (where he probably wouldn't)
He is a one of a kind player you wouldn't be able to sign for cheap now even from Ajax where they signed him
Kane and Alli are youth players who let's face it were always going to be good unless their manager was an amateur
Son is about the only good player you can directly attribute to Poch. Maybe Sanchez.
Vertonghen moved to Spurs before Eriksen did and is another 'club signing'.
Let's face it, he couldn't have walked into a higher quality squad than he did at Spurs.
I'd like to see him make the same achievement with Arsenal in a parallel world (where he probably wouldn't)
Wow mate, two ties in four yearsSoon to be two ties in 4 years
If Man Utd lose to Chelsea in the FA cup it will be a disaster whereas Spurs check out of the FA cup every season as part of their club aims, it's easy to be a success at Spurs because all the cup losses etc. Are all brushed under the carpet there
No one said Poch signed all those players, he improved all their players. That's the point.
Don't kid yourself with "Kane was youth product and he was always going to be good" type of posts, his career was going nowhere, warming bench at championship clubs. Alli was signed from league 1/2 team when Poch was their manger.
Vertonghen, Walker, Rose all looked average players, under Poch they became one of the best in their positions. Same with Dembele too, whose career was stalled at Spurs.
This is one impressive manager. He will be able to choose where he goes.. and he could, literally, go to any club he wishes actually... Juve, Bayern and Barca maybe not, depending on how their respective seasons end.. but how he carries himself, and how he manages that squad, and is very astute in bringing players through, spotting talent (who knew much about Son....)
I told someone in December that Spurs could still win the league, and I just have a (little) feeling you know. All the top four will drop points, and I think with Spurs having some big players to return soon, they will have absolutely nothing to lose. If they are still in with a genuine chance come Easter, I wouldn't put it past them.
I told someone in December that Spurs could still win the league, and I just have a (little) feeling you know. All the top four will drop points, and I think with Spurs having some big players to return soon, they will have absolutely nothing to lose. If they are still in with a genuine chance come Easter, I wouldn't put it past them.
What's your problem?
I think most people will say that Poch has done a good job coaching them, there's more to management than just buying players. Dembele, Rose and Walker are examples of players who improved despite being established senior players. You could claim that Alli and Kane would be world-beaters anyway, and although a lot is down to the players you sometimes have to credit the coaches as well. He also didn't walk into a quality squad at Spurs, the squad was a complete mess when he arrived and he undertook a massive overhaul of the whole club including a lot of senior players.
Seriouser and seriouser.
Just saw that we spent £20m on sacking Jose, no way we're going to pay £40m to hire Pochettino when Ole is available at £8m and has done a remarkable job so far.
I sort of want Poch instead of Ole in some ways. He's such a hero, it'd be so depressing if he does go through a bad run and ends up with people turning on him. Would hate to see the perception of him change in the eyes of some supporters.
Mr. Chubby Cheeks. Still my number 1.
Poch is doing an amazing job.
My view still holds that if he is willing to come, it should be a no-brainer to hire him. He has shown he can spot talent, grow and nurture them (both Spurs and Soton), build a team of his own, change tactics mid-game to deal with match situations, compete with the likes of City, Pool, Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea, often beating more than 2-3 of them in the table while working on a very low budget.
What I've been most impressed is the way he talks about everyone with respect, how he did not complain when he has no budget to work with (imagine what the likes of Mourinho would've done) especially considering who he is competing with. He is the best fit, and also had SAFs blessing. I remember when we chose LVG (who Spurs was after) and as a result Spurs went with Poch. How I wish we'd swapped managers there.
Ole has been doing a fantastic job in the interim and I hope he will continue to do this till end of season and see us through to top 4. I can understand why few fans would want Ole full time (he's done well, it's a romantic idea, he understands the club etc) but I feel he's still needs to build tactical nous.
I feel the best case scenario (in my mind), we hire Poch, Ole goes on to manage a good-sized club basis his performance here (someone like Everton, Leicester, or a 4-8 ranked team in Italy, Germany, Spain etc), does a good job there and then kicks-on.
There's one thing I do object to in this thread is how people are just diminishing Poch's achievements. Yes he hasn't won trophies but that shouldn't take away from what he's done with that squad (or at Southampton). You can say you prefer Ole but your argument cannot be that Poch doesn't have the mentality to win trophies as manager (especially as Ole hasn't won anything major as manager either)
My view still holds that if he is willing to come, it should be a no-brainer to hire him. He has shown he can spot talent, grow and nurture them (both Spurs and Soton), build a team of his own, change tactics mid-game to deal with match situations, compete with the likes of City, Pool, Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea, often beating more than 2-3 of them in the table while working on a very low budget.
What I've been most impressed is the way he talks about everyone with respect, how he did not complain when he has no budget to work with (imagine what the likes of Mourinho would've done) especially considering who he is competing with. He is the best fit, and also had SAFs blessing. I remember when we chose LVG (who Spurs was after) and as a result Spurs went with Poch. How I wish we'd swapped managers there.
Ole has been doing a fantastic job in the interim and I hope he will continue to do this till end of season and see us through to top 4. I can understand why few fans would want Ole full time (he's done well, it's a romantic idea, he understands the club etc) but I feel he's still needs to build tactical nous.
I feel the best case scenario (in my mind), we hire Poch, Ole goes on to manage a good-sized club basis his performance here (someone like Everton, Leicester, or a 4-8 ranked team in Italy, Germany, Spain etc), does a good job there and then kicks-on.
There's one thing I do object to in this thread is how people are just diminishing Poch's achievements. Yes he hasn't won trophies but that shouldn't take away from what he's done with that squad (or at Southampton). You can say you prefer Ole but your argument cannot be that Poch doesn't have the mentality to win trophies as manager (especially as Ole hasn't won anything major as manager either)
Charming! Now let's see.. You (Ole/Mike) had a girfriend (ManUtd), dating few months, she broke up, you are nice guy, made her smile and happy, blah, not really marriage material, so she went for a macho guy (Poch) who is talk of the day and every girl wants him. Later on it fails, he is not she expected, blah, and wants you (Ole/Mike) back because you had a good time and made her happy and smiling. Will you be back to her because you love her (club)?
This thread has been relatively quiet in recent weeks, only to grow 10 pages overnight because Ole lost a game against arguably the best team in Europe.
Fickle.
Fickle.
Extreme no doubt but they're in the top 5 and United are technically somewhere in the top 16, most likely not in the top 10 also.
They're a good side who have never been past a CL quarter final and dominate an noncompetitive league. There's no way you can make a serious argument that they're the best side in Europe. They're certainly not the best side in Europe without Cavani and Neymar on the pitch.
What would make them better than Manchester City?
Also, people aren't casting doubts on Ole because he lost to PSG.
People are just slightly concerned that in a home tie, a depleted PSG were able to beat United without breaking a sweat and by the end were showboating. Ole seemingly had no answers to Tuchel's tactical gameplan and if that was Pochettino people would be ripping in to him in this thread, 100%.
People are just slightly concerned that in a home tie, a depleted PSG were able to beat United without breaking a sweat and by the end were showboating. Ole seemingly had no answers to Tuchel's tactical gameplan and if that was Pochettino people would be ripping in to him in this thread, 100%.
While it was a poor performance, It was PSG. We're still on a very early curve of getting up to that level, while they've been here for 3-4 years.
It wasn't like they THRASHED us, it was a corner and 1 good counter, it can happen.
The most realistic of us knew it would be tricky, but I think our injuries changed the game.
If it was a financial decision, they won't have sacked Mourinho in the first place. Failed managers have cost this club hundreds of millions. If they feel Poch is the right man, they will go for him regardless of cost.
I feel like PSG have gone up a level since United lost to them. They were outplayed in games against both Napoli and Liverpool away from home in the CL group stages and that was whilst at full strength. They're a very talented side who yes, were always favourites in this tie, but to lose without even a whimper is very poor from United. They didn't thrash you but they stopped you from creating a single chance and completely dominated the match, by the end 2-0 was kind to United.
You were toothless before the injuries, they didn't help but I don't think it's fair to say they changed the game. PSG managed Ole's gameplan (counter attacks) and you seemingly had no backup to that, no way to open up a disciplined defence who weren't giving you space, and when you did the final ball was very poor.
It's not an embarrassing loss or anything, PSG are clearly a very good side. The manner of the defeat was very, very poor though and I think it's right that a manager should be criticised when his team performs like that in a big game at home in Europe, no? Pochettino got shit for losing by 1 goal over two legs to a Juventus side who the season before reached a CL final. You managed 1 shot on target, regardless of the 'quality gap' between the two sides that tells me that first and foremost Tuchel won the tactical battle and was able to totally nullify your gameplan.
I agree with you. There's no way they're the best side in Europe but they're in the top 5, you can't dispute that.
Personally, I'd rather see that £40m invested in the team instead of spending it on Pochettino and hoping he can turn Lukaku into Kane, or more accurately, water into wine.
Note the addition of 'arguable' to the post.
For me, PSG is as strong as any team in Europe this season. I'm guessing you would claim otherwise. Opinions.
Of all the teams we have played and beaten since Ole took over the club (including top tier PL clubs such as Arsenal and Spurs) PSG were head and shoulders above them all. The way they dictated the tempo of the game and completely nullify our attack is something no team has been able to achieve against us.