This SCOTUS ruling is probably a slight positive for Biden, purely in terms of his chances to get re-elected. It partly shifts the focus from his disastrous debate performance, and towards Trump's authoritarianism. Hopefully it will help motivate some less enthusiastic voters to go vote for Sleepy Joe in November.
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
"Hopefully" are you serious?
Biden cannot under any circumstance be the President. He is absolutely not in any fit state to occupy the most powerful job in the World. At a time of deepening international tensions and threat, the US is more vulnerable with Biden at the helm than with Trump.
Biden is effectively a walking corpse now, he is not making the decisions, who is? how will Biden be in 4 years time? It is unthinkable for him to be re-elected.
The biggest threat to the US at the moment is not the prospect of a Trump presidency, it is the lunatics within the Biden family and inner circle that are abusing him and desperately clinging to power for their own self-interest.
How would the US be 'more vulnerable with Biden at the helm than with Trump?'
Are YOU serious? No person with the slightest knowledge of US politics would suggest it is better for the US and the world with Trump (or any other Republican in their extremist format of today) than Biden (or any other Democrat for that matter!)
Who cares if Biden is a "walking corpse"? He's got a competent admin full of experienced people around him. Biden himself might be shit, but his admin has been quite successful over the past 3.5 years. I'd rather take than the complete clown show Trump would bring - and that's not even getting into SCOTUS, Project 2025, abortion etc but you wouldn't know anything about those issues would you? You know as well as I do that Trump will bring a gaggle of people who are not qualified for anything if he gets back in.
You're honestly coming off as a closet Trump fan who fakes being "concerned" because of Biden's age. Biden's age and state of mind is fecking irrelevant when Trump/MAGA GOP is on the other side of the table. How can you not get that?
Like I said, you're either an ultra conservative who backs Trump or you are utterly clueless and naive about US affairs. You've produced 1363 posts since 2001(!) and now all of a sudden you're giving it large in here about how it would be better for the US with a maniac like Trump instead of Biden. Laughable.
Like I said, completely clueless. Either willfully ignorant on the issues at hand or completely out of his depth.
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Incredible how the mood changed in the span of a few days , and i feel that myself.
I have been more optimistic than most of Biden's chances, even had him as a slight favorite up until the debate, now?
Feels like a big uphill battle, Biden is further gone than i could have imagined, and really, nothing would feel better than a WH announcement that Biden is calling it a day.
I have been more optimistic than most of Biden's chances, even had him as a slight favorite up until the debate, now?
Feels like a big uphill battle, Biden is further gone than i could have imagined, and really, nothing would feel better than a WH announcement that Biden is calling it a day.
Going to be tough. Trump's slightly ahead on 538 now - they were my go to place in 2020 and back then Biden was comfortably ahead all the time https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/?cid=rrpromo
It's not the same 538, mind. Nate Silver is gone, and with him the model they've been using since the start. A lot of the other employees were let go the last couple of years as well.
Most voters do.
I'd think it's a decent model since ABC is using it? Anyway, do you know what Silver's new model says? I see that it is behind a paywall now. Either way it's not looking very hot!
Really, how could that be? I know that he has gone, but usually the models/algorithms are IP of the company.
Of course, I also guess that the model was constantly getting adjusted and Silver was very good at it, so it might be that the current models are worse.
Nah, I'm not paying for it. I'm sure ABC is happy with their model, it just isn't the one that made 538 famous.
"It doesn't matter if the president is a walking corpse" is not an argument that will gain traction outside of a party's loyalists. C'mon now.
He personally owned the model. Presumably it was part of the deal when he sold 538 to ABC.
Thanks posting. So, a helluva lot worse than the current 538 model. Sadly for us all, I trust Silver more.
Jesus, we are on the same side here... I'm just trying to explain that ignorant maniac that Trump would NOT be a better choice than any iteration of Biden because his admin consist of highly competent people as opposed to what Trump's admin would. My God.
That guy was schooled by @WI_Red just a few hours ago but never responded to that. So he's been given all the knowledge he needs to form an educated option and he still lands on Donald J. Trump. Cool.
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Yes, but I don't think that's true. Not when the 'iteration' of Biden is 'mentally incapable.'
Look, I'm not trying to be an ass here. I just don't get you. Are you genuinely serious? Or are you just argumentative because you're pissed that Biden is not liberal enough, Gaza etc whatever? I know you as a smart poster, I know that you know the same as I do. I know you possess a great deal of knowledge on this topic. I know that you are aware of Project 2025, the SCOTUS situation, abortion etc. The recent SCOTUS ruling that would make Trump lick his fat little fingers at the prospect of "immunity" if he gets back in etc.
What gives? Do you hate the current status quo so much you'd rather see the US burn itself to the ground in the hope of something better rising from the ashes in 30 years time? That ain't happening. How exactly is all of that better than Biden being senile? Worst case scenario: his competent people around him keeps things ticking along for a few years. 2nd worst case scenario: He dies of old age or is removed by the 25th amendment and a capable VP takes over and the world moves on with business as usual.
You wouldn't prefer senile Joe Biden with everything he brings in terms of his cabinet, other officials, judge appointments, etc. over Trump and what he will bring? From my perspective, it could be a literal Weekend at Bernie's scenario, where Kamala has to physically steer Biden's hand as he signs legislature, and I would prefer that to Trump, Project 2025 and a conservative SCOTUS for the next 40 years.
Donald Trump’s lawyers on Monday asked the New York judge who presided over his hush-money trial to set aside his conviction and delay his sentencing, scheduled for later this month.
The letter to Judge Juan M Merchan cited the US supreme court’s ruling earlier Monday and asked the judge to delay the former president’s sentencing while he weighs the high court’s decision and how it could influence the New York case, according to the letter obtained by the Associated Press.
The lawyers argue that the supreme court’s decision confirmed a position the defense raised earlier in the case that prosecutors should have been precluded from introducing some evidence they said constituted official presidential acts, according to the letter.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/01/trump-hush-money-supreme-court-immunity
Would this happen?
The letter to Judge Juan M Merchan cited the US supreme court’s ruling earlier Monday and asked the judge to delay the former president’s sentencing while he weighs the high court’s decision and how it could influence the New York case, according to the letter obtained by the Associated Press.
The lawyers argue that the supreme court’s decision confirmed a position the defense raised earlier in the case that prosecutors should have been precluded from introducing some evidence they said constituted official presidential acts, according to the letter.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/01/trump-hush-money-supreme-court-immunity
Would this happen?
You'd imagine most people would understand this. You know we've entered a special place when someone who is firmly on the Left (correct me if 'I'm wrong @Iker Quesadillas) prefers Trump over Biden. I mean, I'm speechless. I am without speech as Jerry Seinfeld once put it.
Really? How low are your expectations of what the POTUS should be exactly?
You need to wake up, it is a matter of absolute urgency for the DNC to overthrow Biden and put in a half competent person there.
It is NOT ok to have a walking corpse in the position of POTUS. His people are not competent, they are lying to you and have been for years. They know full well the cognitive demise of Joe Biden, but are so desperate to keep power that they will not entertain standing down to allow for a new candidate. Even if that should mean Trump gets the White House.
Surely its not about 'preferring' trump, but the reality of it all.
A nation built on the idea of strength will not vote for a man who looks like he poops his pants without knowing.
Biden as he is today is the antithesis of what the average American sees as being American. They probably won't vote for trump either, but not voting for a doddery old fella who doesn't know where he is most of the time is enough to make sure that if Biden runs, Trump wins.
A nation built on the idea of strength will not vote for a man who looks like he poops his pants without knowing.
Biden as he is today is the antithesis of what the average American sees as being American. They probably won't vote for trump either, but not voting for a doddery old fella who doesn't know where he is most of the time is enough to make sure that if Biden runs, Trump wins.
There is a strong argument that a zombie dead is preferable to Trump, because Biden has competent people etc. I buy some of that argument although if I was a US voter, I would sit out this election.
However, what I find hilarious is Dems and libs crying for years that 'the Democracy is at stake this election' while at the same time saying 'in order to save the democracy, vote the mentally impaired puppet, and let the country be ruled from faceless people we do not even know'. It is almost as hilarious as Dems and libs crying for years about how right/center-right people would vote anything with an R on it, to only advocate for voting someone who has dementia just cause he has a D on it.
Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy in real life.
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If Dems would believe half of the shit they stay, they should have invoked the 25th amendment, make a deal with Harris so she stays aside and is just a caretaker (but she gets to be the first ever woman president, despite being only for a few months), and choose a proper leader for the elections. Everything else and the next 4 years of shit are on them as much as are in Maga.
However, what I find hilarious is Dems and libs crying for years that 'the Democracy is at stake this election' while at the same time saying 'in order to save the democracy, vote the mentally impaired puppet, and let the country be ruled from faceless people we do not even know'. It is almost as hilarious as Dems and libs crying for years about how right/center-right people would vote anything with an R on it, to only advocate for voting someone who has dementia just cause he has a D on it.
Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy in real life.
----
If Dems would believe half of the shit they stay, they should have invoked the 25th amendment, make a deal with Harris so she stays aside and is just a caretaker (but she gets to be the first ever woman president, despite being only for a few months), and choose a proper leader for the elections. Everything else and the next 4 years of shit are on them as much as are in Maga.
No, you need to wake up and educate yourself on US affairs.
You're not responding to any of the issues that have been raised nor any of the information you have been given by several posters. I am all for replacing Biden with another candidate IF that gives the Dems a better chance of beating Trump. If Biden's the horse, then everyone have to ride him all the way like one of the Dem donors put it the other day. I only care about the numbers and the chance of keeping Trump and his far right extremists out of the WH. That's all anyone should care about if they care about that country only one ounce.
Would you like to elaborate on the matter of SCOTUS? Abortion? Project 25? Presidential immunity? Gerrymandering? Trump likely would cut off help to Ukraine? Trump's role in J6 basically trying to overturn a legal election?
I think nobody knows for sure. Cohen paid off Daniels before Trump became president. If, however, the prosecution entered evidence from after the fact then it's possible that the verdict is unsafe. A new trial might be needed to establish whether that evidence was admissible. It seems perfectly possible that it might fall under the aegis of presidential privilege as an "official act." And if it's an official act then it cannot even be investigated let alone admitted as evidence.
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The ruling certainly increases the jeopardy significantly - we've all seen what Trump gets up to when prosecution for criminal activity is a possibility - can you imagine the kind of stuff he will try to pull in a second term if he knows he's immune from future prosecution.
His most ardent critics might want to get some one-way plane tickets out of the US booked, just in case he wins.
I disagree here. Electoral chances notwithstanding the DNC has a duty to present the public with a competent president. If Biden is incompetent (as he manifestly appears to be) then it is an affront to democracy and American security to have him continue. A defence of democracy cannot be started from a position where you expect America to vote for a slate of unelected mandarins. America needs to be able to choose a fully functioning human being as its leader (Jesus fecking Christ I can't believe I typed that sentence).
"Any iteration of a Democratic president (including a mentally incapable one) is preferable to Trump" is an extraordinary claim, that's why I can't agree with it, and I don't imagine many other people will.
I am much more ideologically aligned with the Democrats than with the Republicans, and I give a lot of priority to ideology, so it's basically impossible for me to prefer a Republican administration over a Democratic one, in broad terms. But politics isn't just about ideology. There are matters that are apolitical, matters of 'competence', 'capacity', etc. Even for someone like me who prioritizes ideology, I cannot go as far as saying that a mentally incompetent person who is closer ideologically to me will always be better than Trump. It's probably true in most cases, but I think you are seriously lacking in imagination if you think the "worst case scenario" of having a mentally incapable president is literally nothing.
I suspect where we disagree is really on the matter of competence. I don't think the Trump administration was dramatically incompetent and I don't think the Biden administration has been dramatically competent. Beyond disagreeing ideologically on things like Gaza, you can't possibly look at that and think "they're doing a great job by their standards I just disagree with them."
You can EASILY argue that Trump is mentally unfit as well
Seriously though. I appreciate you giving me a serious and coherent answer although I STRONGLY disagree.
That said, I think you’re underestimating the damage of a new Trump term. And keep in mind that he’ll most likely bring more incompent people this time around. He got rid of sensible people around him who wouldn’t indulge him right? Especially at the end when pushing for overturning the election (which should be the clincher here, you can’t prefer someone who actually really tried to overturn an election. Come on man
)I could probably buy that 2012 Mitt Romney would be better than Biden 2024 - but Trump? That’s a hard selling point for me.
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Is Trump a «fully functioning human»?
Nominating Biden as a candidate is basically a big feck you to the US voters at this stage, especially when you're telling them they have to vote for him because the other guys worse.
There's nothing worse in politics than parties making deliberate choices and then using the binary nature of elections to hide behind their choices. When people stay home it won't be their fault Trump is elected it'll be those who served up shite.
There's nothing worse in politics than parties making deliberate choices and then using the binary nature of elections to hide behind their choices. When people stay home it won't be their fault Trump is elected it'll be those who served up shite.
You are in principle correct. But it’s the voters who are acting against their own interest here in this example.
"Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" comes to mind.
That's got feck all to do with it. "The Republicans are batshit crazy therefore we get to present the public with this dead dog as an alternative" is a mockery of democracy not a defence.
Agree. Hopefully it will lead to some introspection on the part of the Democratic party, but I'm not holding my breath.
Wasn't this debate crazily early in the cycle? What was the point of that, if not to check if Biden was up to it in time for a replacement before the convention?