2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris

I watched some political reports about the US election. Several Trump voters were interviewed and asked why the supported Trump.
Many said he lowers taxes. The reporter replied but he will introduce tariffs and prices will go up. So it's just left pocket right pocket.
All(!) of the Trump supporter seriously replied it's China and Europe which will pay for the tariffs.

Honest and serious question. Are really 40+ percent of American voters that dumb to believe this BS Trump is spouting at his rallies?
Even after the have seen Mexico isn't paying for the wall?
 
B. Munich said:
I watched some political reports about the US election. Several Trump voters were interviewed and asked why the supported Trump.
Many said he lowers taxes. The reporter replied but he will introduce tariffs and prices will go up. So it's just left pocket right pocket.
All(!) of the Trump supporter seriously replied it's China and Europe which will pay for the tariffs.

Honest and serious question. Are really 40+ percent of American voters that dumb to believe this BS Trump is spouting at his rallies?
Even after the have seen Mexico isn't paying for the wall?
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I think it's a fallacy to think that these people generally care about policy at this level. Maybe they care about immigration, and the evangelicals about abortion, but they don't care about tax rates or tariffs enough to let their vote be guided by it. They vote for Trump, because they like how he makes them feel, because they perceive him to be a strong man, and so on.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I think it's a fallacy to think that these people generally care about policy at this level. Maybe they care about immigration, and the evangelicals about abortion, but they don't care about tax rates or tariffs enough to let their vote be guided by it. They vote for Trump, because they like how he makes them feel, because they perceive him to be a strong man, and so on.
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Have to say I don't understand Americans. Watching Trump rambling, whining and lying at his rallies makes me shiver and I can't believe this idiot is still in the race.
 
Morty_ said:
https://static.politico.com/79/e9/eaf701084e77be9afaa85356e3b8/slf-october-memo.pdf

It may mean nothing, but its interesting that according to their own internal polling that Montana isn't nearly as rozy as all polling suggests, that Cruz is in real trouble, but also, that Wisconsin is a real pickup opportunity somehow.

It hurts my brain reading through this though, i like to read the candidates number that is in front, not the republican one by default.
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If it's genuine then Michigan is not as close as some recent public polling is suggesting. Wisconsin was always going to be a nail biter. Not good at all for Trump if he is tied in Arizona.
 
B. Munich said:
Have to say I don't understand Americans. Watching Trump rambling, whining and lying at his rallies makes me shiver and I can't believe this idiot is still in the race.
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It's very difficult to understand, yes. As with many things in American politics, Trump is very much a result of the two-party system. Once he won the GOP primaries in 2016, he fully took over the party. Only around 30 million people voted in them (14 million for Trump). Most of the establishment Republicans were desperate for it not to happen, but have since fallen in line. Secretly they can't wait for him to die, I guarantee it. If voters had more alternatives than Republican vs. Democrat, there's no way he would ever have been president.
 
Young men’s economic prospects are shifting, along with their politics
For David Tasker, an 18-year-old construction worker in Pennsylvania, his top financial priorities are having enough money for gas, dining out and spending on his girlfriend while living at home with his parents.

“Trump can run America like a business and Kamala would run it as a classroom,” Tasker said. “Trump would care about how Americans can get the most money, how we can care for the most people, and keep America first.”
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...ic-prospects-are-shifting-politics-rcna174384
 
B. Munich said:
I watched some political reports about the US election. Several Trump voters were interviewed and asked why the supported Trump.
Many said he lowers taxes. The reporter replied but he will introduce tariffs and prices will go up. So it's just left pocket right pocket.
All(!) of the Trump supporter seriously replied it's China and Europe which will pay for the tariffs.

Honest and serious question. Are really 40+ percent of American voters that dumb to believe this BS Trump is spouting at his rallies?
Even after the have seen Mexico isn't paying for the wall?
Click to expand...

Well it's a moot point asking about this in Redcafe. Any answer will just get shut down fast. It's Trump.

Forget the MAGA part but not all 40% are voting for Trump, they vote for what they believe align with their views, even if no party can 100% align but just like Dem voters they vote with whatver they think it's best for them.

Trump and Harris aside both Party over baseline principle that resonates with people in real life.

Open immigration might sounds noble on paper but not everybody would want that and they have their reasonable reason for not wanting Democrats to win the election. Just one example. The media and the rally would make it like two extremes of no immigration vs total open border while the truth probably lies somewhere in between. And that's just one aspect.

They might dont like Trump or Harris, but they sure can't afford to like the opposite of what they strongly believe.
 
SirAF said:
Could Tucker Carlson have a go at it?
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I don't think he'd have a chance. He was kind of compelling/charismatic to right-wingers as a pundit when speaking to a screen and spreading his lies, but I don't think he'd be equally as effective during interviews, rallies, debates, etc. And in a general election, I imagine he'd be far too off-putting to independents.
 
B. Munich said:
Have to say I don't understand Americans. Watching Trump rambling, whining and lying at his rallies makes me shiver and I can't believe this idiot is still in the race.
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Bunch of idiots we are. Majority can’t think for themselves. Misinformation. Won’t look at evidence and lazy to do any research. Blindly following conspiracy theories. This coupled with the manly ego of why should I vote for a woman will be disastrous. We and to a certain extent the rest of the world are well and truly fecked if Trump wins which is looking likely.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I'm sure they were all thinking about the expansion of the Autobahn.
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1 in 5 young eligible voters under the age of 30 means something like 30-40% of men that age bracket are amenable to fecking Nazism.

Yet I was told in this thread that social media is predominantly left wing. If you are a man under the age of 30, any hobby you might have growing up from gaming to sport to fitness to mechanics are absolutely dominated by center right to straight up fascist influencers, it’s fecking terrifying, and an abject failure in messaging from the left.
 
Beachryan said:
This 100%. He's barely holding it together this time, I'm not sure he'll even be around in 4 years time.
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I think he will run in 2028. Win or lose this year.

I really do believe that he will find a way to remain in office if he wins. His government will continue to claim the 2020 election was rigged and make the case to SCOTUS that he deserves another 4 years because he was cheated out of it in 2020. SCOTUS have already ruled a President can commit crimes in office. I know that sounds crackpot, but i believe it. I was saying he wouldn't leave office in 2020 and I was pretty much right on that.

If Harris wins, it will be the Big Lie Part 2, but even more organised. They will claim they have won states even though the mail ins are yet to be counted.

And he is not dying any time soon. Even if DC was nuked, two things would remain. Cockroaches and Trump.
 
Sky1981 said:
Any answer will just get shut down fast. It's Trump.
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I don't have a preference for either the democrats or republicans. If Trump ran for the democrats, then I would hope the republican candidate will win.

Yes it's Trump! A guy who still believes the election was stolen, doesn't cherish democracy, lies constantly, has to no vision for the future (drill, drill, drill), never held his promises made in 2016 (built a wall and Mexico is paying for it, reverse the US trade deficit, end all wars....) and only rambles, whines and insults in his 2h long rallies. Since Harris joined the race, Trump became even more unhinged, more radical, more crazy.
In every (normal) country he would be out of the race already, but in the US he gains momentum with his craziness, rambling and whinging.
I'm honestly stunt and don't understand what's going on.

I also can't believe that republicans spam the place with partisan polls showing Trump is leading. Why would they do that, if not true? They would only discourage potential voters to vote as they think the race is already won.

America, our closest ally but since the orange clown won the election 2016 I don't understand the country anymore.
 
B. Munich said:
I don't have a preference for either the democrats or republicans. If Trump ran for the democrats, then I would hope the republican candidate will win.

Yes it's Trump! A guy who still believes the election was stolen, doesn't cherish democracy, lies constantly, has to no vision for the future (drill, drill, drill), never held his promises made in 2016 (built a wall and Mexico is paying for it, reverse the US trade deficit, end all wars....) and only rambles, whines and insults in his 2h long rallies. Since Harris joined the race, Trump became even more unhinged, more radical, more crazy.
In every (normal) country he would be out of the race already, but in the US he gains momentum with his craziness, rambling and whinging.
I'm honestly stunt and don't understand what's going on.

I also can't believe that republicans spam the place with partisan polls showing Trump is leading. Why would they do that, if not true? They would only discourage potential voters to vote as they think the race is already won.

America, our closest ally but since the orange clown won the election 2016 I don't understand the country anymore.
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Re the two highlighted points...
He is propped up by a media ecosystem, led by Fox News, that normalises him, vilifies the Democrats, lies to and outrages its audience.

The partisan polls are created to up his standing, boost his ego, show his people they are on the winning side and most importantly use as a tool to call the election illegitimate should he lose.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I'm sure they were all thinking about the expansion of the Autobahn.
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Wtf. The Autobahn had only 2 purposes. To get all the millions of unemployed from the streets into work and prepare the infrastructure for the war.
This should be common knowledge isn't it?

Hitler ran Germany into massive debt. By 1939 Germany couldn't get any credits anymore. In short Hitler had 2 choices either bankruptcy or war.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I don't think he'd have a chance. He was kind of compelling/charismatic to right-wingers as a pundit when speaking to a screen and spreading his lies, but I don't think he'd be equally as effective during interviews, rallies, debates, etc. And in a general election, I imagine he'd be far too off-putting to independents.
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Yeah, probably!
 
gaffs said:
Re the two highlighted points...
He is propped up by a media ecosystem, led by Fox News, that normalises him, vilifies the Democrats, lies to and outrages its audience.

The partisan polls are created to up his standing, boost his ego, show his people they are on the winning side and most importantly use as a tool to call the election illegitimate should he lose.
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Also money and fundraising. Same as Kamala even though its been reported that she has raised a billion in her abbreviated campaign so far. The messaging is still desperate for donations, we are running behind, they are catching up. Fair enough it elicits more donations, more urgency. Less complacency. Which is what you want in a close race. Even though the texts and emails are a bit over the top and annoying I still appreciate that they are not resting and fighting till the end.

People also want to believe they are supporting the winning side. So GOP leaning polling makes sense for a trump campaign. Trump especially is never going to admit or say he is behind anywhere. We have seen that for years with the Stolen Election nonsense.
Mike Smalling said:
I think it's a fallacy to think that these people generally care about policy at this level. Maybe they care about immigration, and the evangelicals about abortion, but they don't care about tax rates or tariffs enough to let their vote be guided by it. They vote for Trump, because they like how he makes them feel, because they perceive him to be a strong man, and so on.
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Yep. GOP don't even offer any real policy. Its only hate agendas and "concepts of plans". Their voters don't understand tariffs are taxes on them ultimately. They still after all these years think that giving businesses and the rich tax breaks somehow makes their lives better and it will trickle down to them from the benevolent CEOS who definitely won't maximize profits and share prices with the tax breaks.

People blame Democrats for not countering messaging on this but at some point people have to be smart and not buy into obvious bs. Anyone who listens to trump at this point and actually believes a word he says other than I will take revenge for his personal slights and enemies list. Needs to check themselves. There is only so much one can do to tell these people that conspiracies are stupid. When EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, and only a "certain group" had the real scoop and you have to do "your own research" which includes social media rabbit holes. Something should wake them up.
 
VorZakone said:
Just found out Stanley Kubrick's daughter is a Trump supporter.
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And Ronald Reagan's son is a staunch progressive who's always voted Dem and despises everything the MAGA movement stands for.

Kids don't always tow the family line (though truthfully I'm not aware of the Kubrick elder's political leanings).
 
Kaos said:
And Ronald Reagan's son is a staunch progressive who's always voted Dem and despises everything the MAGA movement stands for.

Kids don't always tow the family line (though truthfully I'm not aware of the Kubrick elder's political leanings).
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It's not just that she is a Trump supporter in the sense that she prefers Republican policies or shit like that.

Her twitter feed is full on MAGA conspiracy theories. It's wild.
 
VorZakone said:
It's not just that she is a Trump supporter in the sense that she prefers Republican policies or shit like that.

Her twitter feed is full on MAGA conspiracy theories. It's wild.
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I always wonder how these families can get together for holidays etc. Like the Kushners. Jared's brother and his wife Karlie Kloss are very liberal. And they had to deal with the questions of his brother actually working for trump in the first administration.
 
Hamnat said:
I always wonder how these families can get together for holidays etc. Like the Kushners. Jared's brother and his wife Karlie Kloss are very liberal. And they had to deal with the questions of his brother actually working for trump in the first administration.
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Also George and Kellyanne Conway, well they're divorced now so we know how that went! Imagine his wife working for a guy he despises so much.
 
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B. Munich said:
I watched some political reports about the US election. Several Trump voters were interviewed and asked why the supported Trump.
Many said he lowers taxes. The reporter replied but he will introduce tariffs and prices will go up. So it's just left pocket right pocket.
All(!) of the Trump supporter seriously replied it's China and Europe which will pay for the tariffs.

Honest and serious question. Are really 40+ percent of American voters that dumb to believe this BS Trump is spouting at his rallies?
Even after the have seen Mexico isn't paying for the wall?
Click to expand...

It's not that complicated.

The majority of people can't be swayed no matter the Republican or Democrat candidate. They are entrenched.

The biggest thing Trump has going for him is people believe they were better off in 2017, 2018 and 2019, pre COVID. Trump is running ad's with the slogan "You were better off under Trump".

It is working. So much so that NBCs recent poll has his job approval upto 48% for his first term.
When he left office is was 34% and his approval averaged 41%, which was a record low average.

So voters are looking back with rose tinted glasses at his Presidency.

Biden, and thus Harris, has taken the hit for post COVID inflation.
 
SirAF said:
Also George and Kellyanne Conway, well they're divorced now so we know how that went! Imagine his wife working for a guy he despises so much.
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George Conway was all for Trump for a while. I think he turned on him in 2018. Split his family apart.

I like George, Anthony Scaramucci and many of the commentators that worked for or close to Trump and now speak out against him.

But quite honestly, it is hard to believe they didn't see Trump was a racist and a conman from the start. Proximity to power corrupts.
 
Hamnat said:
Also money and fundraising. Same as Kamala even though its been reported that she has raised a billion in her abbreviated campaign so far. The messaging is still desperate for donations, we are running behind, they are catching up. Fair enough it elicits more donations, more urgency. Less complacency. Which is what you want in a close race. Even though the texts and emails are a bit over the top and annoying I still appreciate that they are not resting and fighting till the end.
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If you want to see desperate, go subscribe to Trumps email list...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-fundraising-emails-hug-guilltone-rcna156038

“You are the reason I wake up every morning. I love you to the moon and back, and I really mean that. DJT”
 
gaffs said:
George Conway was all for Trump for a while. I think he turned on him in 2018. Split his family apart.

I like George, Anthony Scaramucci and many of the commentators that worked for or close to Trump and now speak out against him.

But quite honestly, it is hard to believe they didn't see Trump was a racist and a conman from the start. Proximity to power corrupts.
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I give a smidgen of credit to those that got out early and were pretty open about everything. But those that were there the entire first term and only tried to "tell the truth" after the Impeachments and after the Jan 6th comittees and have books etc coming out that they want to try to get on the right side of history now can get lost.

Pence for example. He should have testified, he should have been vocal and told the country everything without a Jack Smith subpoena and waiting for the trial. If it wasn't for the leaks, and the discovery of these trials so much info relevant wouldn't even be in the public space. And a lot of it is hidden and negated by disinformation anyway specifically because they didn't give full throated objections and condemnation earlier.
 
Trump hints he will appear on Joe Rogan...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-hints-appear-joe-rogan-163059495.html

When are The Dems going to put on their big boy pants and leave the safe space?

Trump has been on....
Flagrant - 4mil YT views
Theo Von - 13mil YT views
Logan Paul - 7mil YT views
Dr Phil - 17mil YT views

Harris was on Howard Stern - 1.2mil views on youtube.
The View - 700k youtube views
Call My Daddy - 600k youtube views

Now I know that these view counts are only from one platform and some of Trumps interviews were a few weeks back so will have gained more views, but still. Why is the Harris campaign not putting her where she will get maximum exposure and be able to reach young men?

Trump is doing this solo. He knows he cant sent Vance on these shows, as he is devoid of personality. Harris has Walz that could be doing this.

Watched Mark Cuban on Flagrant and Theo Von. He talked alot about Trump and Harris and explained a lot about Harris and her policies. The guys on the show often commented "oh, i didn't know that about her - all we see is the negative ad's".

She is leaving a lot of votes on the table here because quite frankly, Trump sounds like a moron on these podcasts, but without a counter from her, there is no point of contrast.
 
diarm said:
This is big for Harris. I can't think of a better way for Trump to disillusion his fanbase than by threatening them with exercise.
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This isn’t big for Harris. It’s a few hundred or thousand cultists that were inconvenienced and will perform some mental gymnastics to protect their ego and opinion on their idol. At very best it will make a handful of people decide not to vote but you can probably count them on one hand.
 
gaffs said:
Trump hints he will appear on Joe Rogan...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-hints-appear-joe-rogan-163059495.html

When are The Dems going to put on their big boy pants and leave the safe space?

Trump has been on....
Flagrant - 4mil YT views
Theo Von - 13mil YT views
Logan Paul - 7mil YT views
Dr Phil - 17mil YT views

Harris was on Howard Stern - 1.2mil views on youtube.
The View - 700k youtube views
Call My Daddy - 600k youtube views

Now I know that these view counts are only from one platform and some of Trumps interviews were a few weeks back so will have gained more views, but still. Why is the Harris campaign not putting her where she will get maximum exposure and be able to reach young men?

Trump is doing this solo. He knows he cant sent Vance on these shows, as he is devoid of personality. Harris has Walz that could be doing this.

Watched Mark Cuban on Flagrant and Theo Von. He talked alot about Trump and Harris and explained a lot about Harris and her policies. The guys on the show often commented "oh, i didn't know that about her - all we see is the negative ad's".

She is leaving a lot of votes on the table here because quite frankly, Trump sounds like a moron on these podcasts, but without a counter from her, there is no point of contrast.
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To be fair, those are safe spaces for Trump and hostile spaces for Harris. It’s not like Trump is sticking his neck out and Harris needs to too.
 
Pexbo said:
To be fair, those are safe spaces for Trump and hostile spaces for Harris. It’s not like Trump is sticking his neck out and Harris needs to too.
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Exactly. Harris can't go on Logan Pauls show even if he invited her. Same with Joe Rogan imo. I don't know what equivalent social media personalities that are looking for interviews that have a more open base of support she could reach. But most of those are MAGA listeners

Even worse than Fox news guys.
 
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