2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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fcbforever said:
You really never read the proposal have you? And you dont have even the slightest idea of how such a zone would work do you?
The idea is to get the Russians to accept that a mutual No Fly Zone will be enforced against the Syrian airforce, which is the main airforce bombarding civilians. Putin is bluffing right now, he's been for almost 5 years. He would accept if forced to.
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The Syrian airforce is working in tandem with the Russians, and there's absolutely no reason why the Russians would agree to it, especially after the mission creep we saw in Libya where the no fly zone was actually a pretense to forced regime change.

Lets assume the idea is to only stop Syrian planes and lets also make the far fetched assumption that the Russians would for some reason agree to it. You're still going to have a precarious situation with Russian planes flying and the US enforcing the airspace - all it takes is one incident to provoke something terrifying.

Heck everyone else seems to think it's a pretty awful idea:

Right now, Senator, for us to control all of the airspace in Syria it would require us to go to war, against Syria and Russia,” said Dunford. “That’s a pretty fundamental decision that certainly I’m not going to make.”

Marine Corps Gen. Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
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Kaos said:
The Syrian airforce is working in tandem with the Russians, and there's absolutely no reason why the Russians would agree to it, especially after the mission creep we saw in Libya where the no fly zone was actually a pretense to forced regime change.

Lets assume the idea is to only stop Syrian planes and lets also make the far fetched assumption that the Russians would for some reason agree to it. You're still going to have a precarious situation with Russian planes flying and the US enforcing the airspace - all it takes is one incident to provoke something terrifying.

Heck everyone else seems to think it's a pretty awful idea:
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Tbh, even if some Russian plane got shot down, nothing would happen.
Not worth it.
And secretly Putin would be happy to spare the scrapping costs.
 
MoBeats said:
Yeah that's an interesting theory too, all very close at some point. Does make you wonder.

Regarding previous questions, I think the press like to give anything regarding the white house and scandal a "something-gate" name. Doesn't necessarily mean it's about voter fraud.
When I say rigged I think this election has been rigged from the off. Rigged against Bernie, of that there can be no denying, if Bernie were in the running we'd not be having this discussion now.
Rigged now in favour of Clinton. Ive read suggestion more people in the US want her indicted than in office, and she's only got support from something like 8% of the country.
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Great strategy or rigging? Considering the wave of support Obama had, she gave him a tough fight. I might be wrong but did she not recieve more votes than Trump in the primaries? Quite the unpopular witch.
You mean indicted like Bush and Powell before her...oh but wait, they are republicans.
What is her crime anyway (I mean with evidence)?
 
fcbforever said:
Tbh, even if some Russian plane got shot down, nothing would happen.
Not worth it.
And secretly Putin would be happy to spare the scrapping costs.
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That's a dangerous assumption to make, and not one I'd imagine US officials would want to test.

Hopefully this is just posturing from Hillary, because all evidence points to this being an awful idea. But again, her track record on foreign policy has been pretty abysmal, so who knows?
 
Kaos said:
That's a dangerous assumption to make, and not one I'd imagine US officials would want to test.

Hopefully this is just posturing from Hillary, because all evidence points to this being an awful idea. But again, her track record on foreign policy has been pretty abysmal, so who knows?
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You really are funny :D

And no, nobody will want to test it, but we know it's true. The turkish airforce just shot down a Russian plane, did anything happen? No.
 
fcbforever said:
You really are funny :D

And no, nobody will want to test it, but we know it's true. The turkish airforce just shot down a Russian plane, did anything happen? No.
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I don't have to explain the differing ramifications of a Russian plane being shot down by the US than by the Turks. The situation was different too since the Russian plane was allegedly flying over Turkish airspace. Again, it's not a risk anyone wants to take, not when it involves the Russians and the US and considering the tumultuous relationship between the two.
 
Kaos said:
I don't have to explain the differing ramifications of a Russian plane being shot down by the US than by the Turks. The situation was different too since the Russian plane was allegedly flying over Turkish airspace. Again, it's not a risk anyone wants to take, not when it involves the Russians and the US and considering the tumultuous relationship between the two.
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Russia can't go to war with the US. Logistically it's impossible, considering the sorry state of their economy.

This is just Putin saber rattling and Clinton paying lip service to the foreign policy think tanks/establishment. They will sit down and hash out an acceptable bargain for both sides (withdrawn Russian AF in exchange for sanction relief, for instance)
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Russia can't go to war with the US. Logistically it's impossible, considering the sorry state of their economy.

This is just Putin saber rattling and Clinton paying lip service to the foreign policy think tanks/establishment. They will sit down and hash out an acceptable bargain for both sides (withdrawn Russian AF in exchange for sanction relief, for instance)
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I'd agree there but still don't see Russia coming to any compromise over a no fly zone. Especially with the Syrian regime being one of the few remaining allies Russia has, couple that to the Arabs, Turks and Western powers continuing to prop up the opposition forces. It doesn't make sense for the Russians to concede, not now that it looks like their horse is winning the civil war.

As I've mentioned earlier the Libya situation has probably preempted them not to compromise over Syria since they saw how a UN resolution and no fly zone was mission creep for regime change.

The best thing both sides can do is continuing negotiating a more tangible truce, a no fly zone isn't going to propel that.
 
Shows the detest for both candidates. If anything emphasises a wasted vote .It's the vote for Johnson
 
Kaos said:
I'd agree there but still don't see Russia coming to any compromise over a no fly zone. Especially with the Syrian regime being one of the few remaining allies Russia has, couple that to the Arabs, Turks and Western powers continuing to prop up the opposition forces. It doesn't make sense for the Russians to concede, not now that it looks like their horse is winning the civil war.

As I've mentioned earlier the Libya situation has probably preempted them not to compromise over Syria since they saw how a UN resolution and no fly zone was mission creep for regime change.

The best thing both sides can do is continuing negotiating a more tangible truce, a no fly zone isn't going to propel that.
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Wrong assumption. Russia doesn't want Assad to win. They just want to keep the country unstable to further weaken the EU.
 
MoBeats said:
Yeah that's an interesting theory too, all very close at some point. Does make you wonder.

Regarding previous questions, I think the press like to give anything regarding the white house and scandal a "something-gate" name. Doesn't necessarily mean it's about voter fraud.
When I say rigged I think this election has been rigged from the off. Rigged against Bernie, of that there can be no denying, if Bernie were in the running we'd not be having this discussion now.
Rigged now in favour of Clinton. Ive read suggestion more people in the US want her indicted than in office, and she's only got support from something like 8% of the country.
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You have read a suggestion. 8% of the country. The Trump is strong with this one.
 
SaintTresano said:
I'm certain that Hillary has been preparing for this election since she conceded in 2008 to Obama. On top of that, she's been more favorable with the super delegates since she started her campaign. Then combine that with her network of some powerful organizations and you basically have a Goliath of a candidate. Bernie had nowhere close to the level of preparation she had. I wouldn't necessarily call that rigging. And I'm a Bernie supporter saying this.

Also on your last point, that is preposterous. I'd like to know where you read that.
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Maybe Bernie should of ran as the independent he is. If people were so much behind them he maybe could have funded his whole campaign and then some. Is it really that hard to believe that the DNC were more favorable to the democtatic candidate then the independent on the ticket.
I would love Bernie as a president but that is a pipe dream in America and I have my suspicions that he would not be doing as well as Clinton against Trump. A cabinate position would be perfect for Sanders, Sec. Of Labor or a specially appointed infrastructure czar.
 
GiddyUp said:
Maybe Bernie should of ran as the independent he is. If people were so much behind them he maybe could have funded his whole campaign and then some. Is it really that hard to believe that the DNC were more favorable to the democtatic candidate then the independent on the ticket.
I would love Bernie as a president but that is a pipe dream in America and I have my suspicions that he would not be doing as well as Clinton against Trump. A cabinate position would be perfect for Sanders, Sec. Of Labor or a specially appointed infrastructure czar.
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He would have crushed Trump because interestingly, a lot of the anti-establishment hillbillies now backing Trump would have voted for him.
 
fcbforever said:
He would have crushed Trump because interestingly, a lot of the anti-establishment hillbillies now backing Trump would have voted for him.
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Bernie v Trump would have been epic, 2 set of unworkable policies pitted against each other. :lol:
 
fcbforever said:
He would have crushed Trump because interestingly, a lot of the anti-establishment hillbillies now backing Trump would have voted for him.
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I don't think so.
A lot of Trump anti establishment hillbillies are with him because he represent anti establishment to the far right of politics. Their bigoted views have become mainstream.
Bernie Sanders is the very antithesis of their views.
 
Cal? said:
Bernie v Trump would have been epic, 2 set of unworkable policies pitted against each other. :lol:
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I always wonder when people say Sanders policies are unworkable.
For instance healthcare; why isn't it possible for the richest country on earth to guarantee healthcare to every citizen?
 
Some good comments in that nyt article.
Donald reveals much more about his considerable vulnerability than he realizes. His bottomless need for admiration makes him a most dangerous demagogue. Is he holding a mirror up to the vulnerability and neediness of those who follow him, even as he basks in their unconditional approval?
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It's amazing how needy, shallow, and fragile he is. He has a combination of traits that make him completely unsuitable for a job in public service and in a role that requires flexibility, depth, and toughness.
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MoBeats said:
Yeah that's an interesting theory too, all very close at some point. Does make you wonder.

Regarding previous questions, I think the press like to give anything regarding the white house and scandal a "something-gate" name. Doesn't necessarily mean it's about voter fraud.
When I say rigged I think this election has been rigged from the off. Rigged against Bernie, of that there can be no denying, if Bernie were in the running we'd not be having this discussion now.
Rigged now in favour of Clinton. Ive read suggestion more people in the US want her indicted than in office, and she's only got support from something like 8% of the country.
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:lol::wenger: fecking hell. You wonder who his vote base could possibly be, and then you actually meet one. First reaction is that it has to be satire. Then you realize this person is for real.....:wenger:
 
simonhch said:
:lol::wenger: fecking hell. You wonder who his vote base could possibly be, and then you actually meet one. First reaction is that it has to be satire. Then you realize this person is for real.....:wenger:
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It will be interesting to see in a few years how many of his "supporters" still stand behind him or how much he will lose over the months or years that follow. I could actually see Trump meltdown enough to where he turns on his supporter's blaming them for not supporting him enough. Though the fact that he needs at least some of them for his TV network to stand a chance, but he will figure out a way to make some money out of The TWAT Network before it goes under (he will of course blame the FCC, or the cable companies, or the Internet or that Nasty Woman Crooked Hillary for the failure).
 
Dwazza said:
Er...the article doesn't suggest anything like that at all.

Not sure the "Don is gay" bit is socially acceptable. His sexuality is irrelevant to the duties of President.
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Overall the article does feel like a huge stretch, to be honest, and almost blithe about the very specific realm these speeches are happening in.
 
Adisa said:
I always wonder when people say Sanders policies are unworkable.
For instance healthcare; why isn't it possible for the richest country on earth to guarantee healthcare to every citizen?
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This was done to death during the primaries and I don't want to get into it again.

The fact is, Bernie's policies would see the national debt balloon much like Trump's tax cuts.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Overall the article does feel like a huge stretch, to be honest, and almost blithe about the very specific realm these speeches are happening in.
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I did find some of it interesting. Certainly nothing wrong with how he's speaking but it's definitely an outlier and could explain how he's connecting with so many voters. He's portrayed himself as an outsider and his speech highlights that. From what they describe, Hillary, despite having an average rating, does sound a lot more masculine and detached than Donald.
 
Dwazza said:
Er...the article doesn't suggest anything like that at all.

Not sure the "Don is gay" bit is socially acceptable. His sexuality is irrelevant to the duties of President.
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It's a joke.

If you are too lazy to read the article, believe the (TL, DR) at your own peril.
 
GiddyUp said:
You have read a suggestion. 8% of the country. The Trump is strong with this one.
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No one in their right mind wants trump in, really. It's ok for you to think neither main candidate is suitable you know.
 
simonhch said:
:lol::wenger: fecking hell. You wonder who his vote base could possibly be, and then you actually meet one. First reaction is that it has to be satire. Then you realize this person is for real.....:wenger:
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What you talking bout Willis?
 
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