2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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Well that should end it. It's not that big a deal really unless you wonder how a Trump administration would prepare for major summits or meetings with world leaders if they can't even do a couple of bog-standard speeches without plagiarizing.

Its not news at this point, but this is fecking amateur hour. I know a healthy skepticism of professionals and experts is good, but that doesn't mean you dispense with notion entirely. I can deal with both conservatives and liberals... but idiots are what really bother me.
 
Well that should end it. It's not that big a deal really unless you wonder how a Trump administration would prepare for major summits or meetings with world leaders if they can't even do a couple of bog-standard speeches without plagiarizing.

Trump isn't a fit person to be president of the United States, but the mainstream parties have only themselves to blame for his rise. The American people are concerned with the threat to their way of life posed by immigration and globalization. If neither Democrats nor Republicans are prepared to address those issues, they leave a political space for demagoguery.
 
Trump isn't a fit person to be president of the United States, but the mainstream parties have only themselves to blame for his rise. The American people are concerned with the threat to their way of life posed by immigration and globalization. If neither Democrats nor Republicans are prepared to address those issues, they leave a political space for demagoguery.

That's bollocks. People get the government that they deserve. If people were educated, engaged and informed then we'd have smart people in charge.
 
Trump isn't a fit person to be president of the United States, but the mainstream parties have only themselves to blame for his rise. The American people are concerned with the threat to their way of life posed by immigration and globalization. If neither Democrats nor Republicans are prepared to address those issues, they leave a political space for demagoguery.

How do I disagree with every post of yours? You are the Pink Moon of Current Events for me. Where do you live and why do you have such a strong anti immigration stance? I'm just curious.
 
That's bollocks. People get the government that they deserve. If people were educated, engaged and informed then we'd have smart people in charge.

That's just the standard, condescending, liberal response. The hoi polloi don't understand how things work, and need a better educated and informed class, like the liberals themselves, to show them where their interests lie.
 
That's just the standard, condescending, liberal response. The hoi polloi don't understand how things work, and need a better educated and informed class, like the liberals themselves, to show them where their interests lie.


That's just a standard right-wing loon response. Sneer at education and self-betterment as somehow elitist, yet love to throw out words you plucked from a thesaurus. Is it self-loathing with you or do you just prefer that most people are kept stupid so you can feel smug and superior?
 
Is it just me or does Donald Trump Jr. look like Marco Rubio with a good tan?
rs-234401-american-psycho.jpg

Patrick Bateman, without the cool taste in music.
 
Trump isn't a fit person to be president of the United States, but the mainstream parties have only themselves to blame for his rise. The American people are concerned with the threat to their way of life posed by immigration and globalization. If neither Democrats nor Republicans are prepared to address those issues, they leave a political space for demagoguery.

Pretty much. The clowncar populism that has emerged both on the left and right in US politics is directly attributable to identity, culture, and economic opportunity. Wealth is coagulating among elites at the expense of democracy and opportunity for the masses, which is opening the door for the likes of Trump and Sanders to connect with various large constituencies.
 
Pretty much. The clowncar populism that has emerged both on the left and right in US politics is directly attributable to identity, culture, and economic opportunity. Wealth is coagulating among elites at the expense of democracy and opportunity for the masses, which is opening the door for the likes of Trump and Sanders to connect with various large constituencies.

Reality show culture isn't forced onto people.
 
Just watched 5 minutes of Ben Carson. Oh America.
He has spent most of his life awake and alert so he can operate on kids brains but has now decided to catch up on much needed sleep in his retirement. I can imagine Mrs Carson coming down the stairs at 4:00am to find Dr Ben sitting at the table, light from the open fridge illuminating the kitchen, eating turkey slices and margarine off the portrait of him and Jesus while lecturing Richard Nixon on the myth of slavery.
 
The full weak sauce excuse they managed to conjure up.



Just make you think about how surreal this election is. Pappi Bush was slammed for checking his watch and Gore got eviscerated for... sighing. At this rate, Drumpf can drop his pants and start stroking his tiny dick with his baby hands at the debates, with minimal media backlash.

All his followers will turn around nodding in agreement with each other, " this guy really gets me, I have a little dick too"
 
Well that should end it. It's not that big a deal really unless you wonder how a Trump administration would prepare for major summits or meetings with world leaders if they can't even do a couple of bog-standard speeches without plagiarizing.

Christ without any of the speech stuff, I wonder how the feck this idiot and those around him would deal with big or small issue the country faces.
 
Pretty much. The clowncar populism that has emerged both on the left and right in US politics is directly attributable to identity, culture, and economic opportunity. Wealth is coagulating among elites at the expense of democracy and opportunity for the masses, which is opening the door for the likes of Trump and Sanders to connect with various large constituencies.

So you´re saying Sanders is clown car populism? How so?
 
Trump has lost the Northside Long Beach Crips:

 
No, I like Bernie - it's some of his supporters that are a bit too intoxicated with the cult of the Bern. They are the clown car representatives here.

But there should be a definite line drawn between the clown car populism of the right (driven by Donald, which can be dangerous as well), and the clown car of the left which are a few scattered dorks. Your original statement appears to equate the two, and they are extremely different.
 
How do I disagree with every post of yours? You are the Pink Moon of Current Events for me. Where do you live and why do you have such a strong anti immigration stance? I'm just curious.

I'm Irish. My anti-immigration views are not personal, unless they result from being attacked by a gang of Afro-Asians from Algeria when I was a child?

Come to think of it, that didn't happen. Maybe I just believe that immigration negatively impacts on the harmony, cohesion and shared identity of the receiving society; while depressing wage levels for the lowest paid - the group whose communities are most badly disrupted by the arrival of newcomers.
 
Republicans actively decry and sneer at education too. Although they love making a fortune out of student loans.

What the Republicans really like are the lions share of these student loans profits coming from these private, unregulated for profit scammy universities, as well how these McUniversities are undermining traditional state public universities which the right wing has always seen as a bastion of liberal brainwashing.

It all fits in though, with the dumbing-down-for-profit conservatives free marketers love
 
I'm Irish. My anti-immigration views are not personal, unless they result from being attacked by a gang of Afro-Asians from Algeria when I was a child?

Come to think of it, that didn't happen. Maybe I just believe that immigration negatively impacts on the harmony, cohesion and shared identity of the receiving society; while depressing wage levels for the lowest paid - the group whose communities are most badly disrupted by the arrival of newcomers.

Does 100s of years of getting rich through colonialism bother you at all? How about the US getting rich thanks to 250 years of free labour?
 
That's just a standard right-wing loon response. Sneer at education and self-betterment as somehow elitist, yet love to throw out words you plucked from a thesaurus. Is it self-loathing with you or do you just prefer that most people are kept stupid so you can feel smug and superior?

In fairness I've never owned a Thesaurus, and only one dictionary, which has long since fallen to pieces. Why are you so concerned about my vocabulary? It was acquired in the normal way - through reading books, not dictionaries.
 
In fairness I've never owned a Thesaurus, and only one dictionary, which has long since fallen to pieces. Why are you so concerned about my vocabulary? It was acquired in the normal way - through reading books, not dictionaries.

So reading and education increases intelligence, articulation and generally makes society better? Yes or no? Or do you think we should just listen to farmers in Iowa who hear something on cable news about muslims and immigrants, and base our votes on what people like Hannity tell us?
 
But there should be a definite line drawn between the clown car populism of the right (driven by Donald, which can be dangerous as well), and the clown car of the left which are a few scattered dorks. Your original statement appears to equate the two, and they are extremely different.

Yes agreed. Its far more insidious on the right, as opposed to hysterical on the left.
 
I'm Irish. My anti-immigration views are not personal, unless they result from being attacked by a gang of Afro-Asians from Algeria when I was a child?

Come to think of it, that didn't happen. Maybe I just believe that immigration negatively impacts on the harmony, cohesion and shared identity of the receiving society; while depressing wage levels for the lowest paid - the group whose communities are most badly disrupted by the arrival of newcomers.

It's just not your anti immigration views either. You are consistently on the other side of the spectrum. What's your stance on abortion, climate change and increased taxes? I'm not that clued up on Ireland, but for a long time, I thought you were from North Carolina or Texas. In general, I find Europeans to the left, but I have read your posts and feel that you're to the right than many americans here. I'm not trying to belittle you here, just that I'm genuinely curios. I'm on elitist by the way, I'm a failed student making a living in the US.
 
It's just not your anti immigration views either. You are consistently on the other side of the spectrum. What's your stance on abortion, climate change and increased taxes? I'm not that clued up on Ireland, but for a long time, I thought you were from North Carolina or Texas. In general, I find Europeans to the left, but I have read your posts and feel that you're to the right than many americans here. I'm not trying to belittle you here, just that I'm genuinely curios. I'm on elitist by the way, I'm a failed student making a living in the US.

The US and especially southern states doesn´t have a monopoly on these types
 
It's just not your anti immigration views either. You are consistently on the other side of the spectrum. What's your stance on abortion, climate change and increased taxes? I'm not that clued up on Ireland, but for a long time, I thought you were from North Carolina or Texas. In general, I find Europeans to the left, but I have read your posts and feel that you're to the right than many americans here. I'm not trying to belittle you here, just that I'm genuinely curios. I'm on elitist by the way, I'm a failed student making a living in the US.

No elitist*, FFS
 
Does 100s of years of getting rich through colonialism bother you at all? How about the US getting rich thanks to 250 years of free labour?

I'm Irish. We were on the other end of the colonial experience. Once we achieved independence, nobody thought that the UK owed us a living, or blamed the British for every misstep made in our teething years as a free nation.

Slave labour was essentially confined to the South, where it sustained the plantation economies of the Southern aristocracy. This, in turn, caused the Southern states to forswear industrial development and fall behind the North economically. American's growth into a superpower was based on the manufacturing industries of the free North. Because of its retarding effect on the Southern economy, slavery may have had a negative impact on US prosperity.
 
I'm Irish. We were on the other end of the colonial experience. Once we achieved independence, nobody thought that the UK owed us a living, or blamed the British for every misstep made in our teething years as a free nation.

Slave labour was essentially confined to the South, where it sustained the plantation economies of the Southern aristocracy. This, in turn, caused the Southern states to forswear industrial development and fall behind the North economically. American's growth into a superpower was based on the manufacturing industries of the free North. Because of its retarding effect on the Southern economy, slavery may have had a negative impact on US prosperity.

And the great northern migration following the collapse of the south which led to the inner-city problems that plague the US today? That's just the fault of blacks?

As for colonialism, you don't think that Western nations are reaping what they sowed somewhat?
 
I'm Irish. We were on the other end of the colonial experience. Once we achieved independence, nobody thought that the UK owed us a living, or blamed the British for every misstep made in our teething years as a free nation.

Slave labour was essentially confined to the South, where it sustained the plantation economies of the Southern aristocracy. This, in turn, caused the Southern states to forswear industrial development and fall behind the North economically. American's growth into a superpower was based on the manufacturing industries of the free North. Because of its retarding effect on the Southern economy, slavery may have had a negative impact on US prosperity.

Much of US infrastructure was built on the blood of the slaves and you are basically saying that slave owners fell behind because they owned slaves. That doesn't sound right, because they became rich because of slaves as well.
 
So reading and education increases intelligence, articulation and generally makes society better? Yes or no? Or do you think we should just listen to farmers in Iowa who hear something on cable news about muslims and immigrants, and base our votes on what people like Hannity tell us?

I understand your point of view. But you're refusing to acknowledge that there may be a real difference of interests between the liberal elites and the kind of people who vote for Trump (or Sanders)
 
I understand your point of view. But you're refusing to acknowledge that there may be a real difference of interests between the liberal elites and the kind of people who vote for Trump (or Sanders)

Nonsense, but the interests of Trump voters are generally more selfish and based on lies. Sanders supporters are demonstrably far more educated than Trump supporters.

The basic reason for voting is that you choose somebody who you think will make your life and the lives of others better. If the reasoning for your choice of candidate is based on lies and misinformation then you are a problem.
 
But there should be a definite line drawn between the clown car populism of the right (driven by Donald, which can be dangerous as well), and the clown car of the left which are a few scattered dorks. Your original statement appears to equate the two, and they are extremely different.

I don't know why I'm going to even say anything, but here goes nothing.

There is an underlying degree of economic populism in Sander's economic pitch (which is the core of his whole pitch). Its not that he doesn't believe in it for legitimate reasons, I think he does. But when the equation is that the voter gets free college for his kids, refinancing of existing student loans, an infrastructure program that also improves things he uses on a daily basis, universal healthcare AND the promise is that they will pay for little or none of it (assuming the voter has medium income, which I know isn't always the case and some Sanders supporters were high income too), that's a bit of a populist platform. I just mean the equation of benefits to come and little cost to the voter, not accusing Bernie of a masterplan to become some latin american style father of the people, I know he's saying these things because he believes its doable (which is where I disagree).
 
Much of US infrastructure was built on the blood of the slaves and you are basically saying that slave owners fell behind because they owned slaves. That doesn't sound right, because they became rich because of slaves as well.

Plantation owners were chronically cash poor. Most of their assets were in land and slaves, their vast estates generated little spare money, and capital to fund economic development was in short supply in the South.
 
Plantation owners were chronically cash poor. Most of their assets were in land and slaves, their vast estates generated little spare money, and capital to fund economic development was in short supply in the South.

That's a really simplistic explanation and ignores a lot of facts. But it kind of derails the thread somewhat so better to move on.
 
The economics of colonialism were essentially simple: colonised countries were essentially the supply of cheap raw materials, and eventually markets for some of the goods. There are plenty of studies about the economic drain to Europe during that period.
Edit: historically free trade has been opposed by the very western business interests that champion it today.
 
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