Be staggered if either would move in January,in terms of the first two I have a gut feeling it's only one or the other
‘Successful’ scenarios for Summer ‘23
- Thread starter Jericholyte2
- Start date
Be staggered if either would move in January,in terms of the first two I have a gut feeling it's only one or the other
Your posts are slightly triggering because you keep countering yourself without even realising it. You're saying Antony doesn't fit with the profile, but we're aware that Ten Hag wanted him for his "profile", but clearly he's not doing enough now, so why are you so sure Mateo Retegui will be a success? Even if Ten Hag wants him, it doesn't mean he will be a success here. Ok, he scored 23 times in 40 appeareances last season. Do you know who also scored 20 goals and 8 assists in 34 matches in Bundesliga? Weghorst.
The fact of the matter is that Mateo Retegui isn't fast, and I have no idea why you're claiming it. He's faster than Weghorst, yes, but who isn't? He is not good enough, and that's the end of that. Do you want to win the league or do you want to be in the middle? He has nothing to fit the role at United because he's far from good enough. He doesn't fit the profile, because he's not good enough. "How hard is this for you to understand"?
Are there any alternatives to Kane or Osimhen? Toney is very good, but is he good enough?
You keep missing the point. Anthony doesnt fit the role now, but he may do so in the future. You asked why anthony is underpeforming...its becoz he doesnt fit the role now...today. He may improve in the future and fit the role since he has time on his side plus the skills. This is the same exact same thing with retegui...he has time plus the skills. Weghorst lacks time and the skills. There is no striker we can sign for whom we can be sure that they will deliver 100%. Even harry kane may not work out due to his injury record. So you asking for guarantees with mateo is absolutely crazy when its the same case even with someone like harry kane or Victor.
Just becoz you type the words fact of the matter doesnt make your words facts. Mateo is not a slow player at all. He is fast...the kind of fast that will trouble defenders. And we can win the league with that type of player. Lastly you quote weghorst stats and conviniently skip the simple fact that they dont matter in this case...he hasnt worked out at manutd. He has had his chance and he just lacks the crucial things like being fast plus scoring enough to really nail down the spot. Same exact problem with Martial. Got the chance, didnt take it. Mateo hasnt and He has shown everything necessary to be given said chance. He fits the profile. Young, Fast, good finisher, good link up. Fits the profile
Swap Timber for Kim MIn-Jae and Sabitzer for Rabiot and I’m with you. Would also keep Sancho though and shift on Elanga and Henderson instead.
Yeah totally agree,will keep saying that De Jong won't leave Barca no matter how much trouble
Outside of Oshimen or Kane, who we could be targeting in the summer from the out-and-out strikers? I am feeling like neither of them is that realistic atm. Oshimen might end up staying at Napoli unless they do a mighty firesale in the summer after the insane season they are having atm.
Ramos from Benfica or is he already the forgotten flavor of the month?
Ivan Toney?
Ramos from Benfica or is he already the forgotten flavor of the month?
Ivan Toney?
Mehdi Taremi is very rarely talked about, but I would go for someone like him for a year or two while waiting for "the next big striker" or for the others to be a bit cheaper. His contract expires next year as well so he would come cheap. If we have the money for Osimhen, then go for him. Taremi is an excellent striker with great hold-up play and passing as you can also see from his assists over the seasons. He's not just a poacher but will help with building up attacks.
This season, his stats are:
Portuguese League: 24 matches, 13 goals and 6 assists
Champions League: 7 matches, 5 goals and 2 assists
This lad Hojlund at Atalanta is really good and I feel he would suit our style really well because he's mobile.
Yup, I also agree with such an option. Mehdi Taremi is actually a good striker and we should be seriously considering such cheaper options. Harry Kane and Victor will be wayyy too expensive and we should steer clear. Ten Hag has shown that he is able to work with ordinary players and make them world-class e.g Heller...that's what we should be aiming for
Yeah, I could see signing him and a younger, pacier striker and just moving on from Martial and Weghorst, like David, Brobbey, Thuram, Gouiri, Okafor, Sesko, a highly rated South American (don't know anything about them) or someone else Ten Hag thinks will need a year or two to develop but will get there as a quality striker.
The least amount of signings I can see since the 5 or 6 we need is probably unrealistic is 4 and Ten Hag putting everything on Timber (height hasn't killed us generally) as a backup at RCB, RB and DM and then a #9 a #8 and a keeper. So let's say this:
----------------------------------------------Striker(Rashford, Martial/Weghorst)------------------------------------
Rashford(Garnacho, Sancho)-------Bruno(Eriksen, Sancho)-------Antony(Sancho, Amad/Pellistri, Bruno)
--------------------#8(Eriksen, Fred, Mainoo)-------Casemiro(Timber, McTominay, Mainoo)
Shaw(Malacia)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dalot(Timber, AWB)
--------------------------Lisandro(Shaw, Lindelof)----Varane(Timber, Lindelof, McTominay)-------
-----------------------------------------------------De Gea/Keeper-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some funky stuff in there like McTominay being the new guy who "comes on for 5 minutes to head the ball at CB in a 3 instead of Maguire" but he is tall and again I'm thinking primarily here of Ten Hag wanting to just keep as much continuity as possible and then in theory Fred, McTominay, Martial/Weghorst and AWB are all upgraded on in the summer of 2024, maybe even one in January if the right deal comes up, with Sancho and then some mystery player whose form drops being the big question marks to sell or not, the Sancho thing will also depend on if Pellistri or Amad has their breakout season, whether here or on loan somewhere.
That's 9 defenders if you include a McTominay conversion (it's not that I rate him there for Scotland, just feels like a small role, Maguire is on pace for like 800 Prem minutes and you give all of those that aren't about aerial play to Timber anyways), 10 midfielders (if you count Timber, McTominay and Sancho), 6 wide options (counting Bruno and Sancho in this group too) and 3 striker options including Rashford.
23 outfield players, so probably add Elanga, maybe Iqbal doesn't go on loan and a defender gets a chance in pre-season to join the first squad. 26 is about right before goalkeepers?
Sales are:
-Maguire, who I just don't buy being comfortable with this kind of squad role when he could presumably go start for a big Serie A Team (Roma, even Milan would make some sense since they have pace but not depth at CB and could use him when they need size) or Villa or Newcastle or maybe Conte or Simeone wants him or another manager playing really deep.
-Telles, done here
-Martial (or Weghorst, not a sale obviously), Martial is the upside choice, Weghorst the stable one. Martial will still be a question mark even if he had a big year, so my guess is Weghorst is the choice
-Van de Beek, might be a loan with option to buy
----------------------------------------------Striker(Rashford, Martial/Weghorst)------------------------------------
Rashford(Garnacho, Sancho)-------Bruno(Eriksen, Sancho)-------Antony(Sancho, Amad/Pellistri, Bruno)
--------------------#8(Eriksen, Fred, Mainoo)-------Casemiro(Timber, McTominay, Mainoo)
Shaw(Malacia)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dalot(Timber, AWB)
--------------------------Lisandro(Shaw, Lindelof)----Varane(Timber, Lindelof, McTominay)-------
-----------------------------------------------------De Gea/Keeper-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some funky stuff in there like McTominay being the new guy who "comes on for 5 minutes to head the ball at CB in a 3 instead of Maguire" but he is tall and again I'm thinking primarily here of Ten Hag wanting to just keep as much continuity as possible and then in theory Fred, McTominay, Martial/Weghorst and AWB are all upgraded on in the summer of 2024, maybe even one in January if the right deal comes up, with Sancho and then some mystery player whose form drops being the big question marks to sell or not, the Sancho thing will also depend on if Pellistri or Amad has their breakout season, whether here or on loan somewhere.
That's 9 defenders if you include a McTominay conversion (it's not that I rate him there for Scotland, just feels like a small role, Maguire is on pace for like 800 Prem minutes and you give all of those that aren't about aerial play to Timber anyways), 10 midfielders (if you count Timber, McTominay and Sancho), 6 wide options (counting Bruno and Sancho in this group too) and 3 striker options including Rashford.
23 outfield players, so probably add Elanga, maybe Iqbal doesn't go on loan and a defender gets a chance in pre-season to join the first squad. 26 is about right before goalkeepers?
Sales are:
-Maguire, who I just don't buy being comfortable with this kind of squad role when he could presumably go start for a big Serie A Team (Roma, even Milan would make some sense since they have pace but not depth at CB and could use him when they need size) or Villa or Newcastle or maybe Conte or Simeone wants him or another manager playing really deep.
-Telles, done here
-Martial (or Weghorst, not a sale obviously), Martial is the upside choice, Weghorst the stable one. Martial will still be a question mark even if he had a big year, so my guess is Weghorst is the choice
-Van de Beek, might be a loan with option to buy
That's the point, we are unrealistically thinking we'll be challenging next year without upgrades & depth added.
At this point I think we'd be lucky to get 20m for Sancho but at the same time I think the club would let him go for around 40-50m since he's hardly done anything in the time he's been here.
Dalot needs to go too if we are serious about challenging for more silverware
Most likely which is annoying because what he showed against us is exactly what we're needing.
Haven't seen Kim play so can't comment, I'll keep an eye out tonight.
The Rabiot circus would be just as bad as Pogba, that's the only reason I haven't included him.
Sancho hasnt done anything but shown glimpses of ability.
I actually forgot those 2, I would be happier to keep Sancho if we shifted on Martial, Elanga and Henderson.
Gone are the days we make quick, quiet signings early in the transfer window and get it over with.
A successful summer window for me will be one we don't crawl on our knees begging to sign a player the whole window, offering ridiculous amount of money and after all the drama he moves to Madrid, Dortmund, Bayern or City for cheaps or chooses to remain at his old club.
Get any deal done with a little more class and if a player isn't willing to come over, move on and sign another player. Common we scout hundreds of players.
A successful summer window for me will be one we don't crawl on our knees begging to sign a player the whole window, offering ridiculous amount of money and after all the drama he moves to Madrid, Dortmund, Bayern or City for cheaps or chooses to remain at his old club.
Get any deal done with a little more class and if a player isn't willing to come over, move on and sign another player. Common we scout hundreds of players.
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Musiala?
This thread is like a FM practice session. People think we can realistically offload 10 players and get 10 in...
Most Fans are simply not considering new FFP rules with this; teams like PSG, Newcastle can have all the money in he world but they can’t really do anything this summer here’s why ;
https://www.themag.co.uk/2023/01/ne...over-deloitte-2023-rich-list-top-20-analysis/
When your wages are already 95-99% of your turnover and you have to include new transfers and agent fees amortised into your expenditure, it’s so obvious why Qatar want to buy united. Our revenue is still £580-620m when we are playing S… with 58 points in the PL and the worst GD on record, imagine what a wining united with a state of the art 100,000 capacity stadium will turnover over. And if fans don’t think that certain players will be transferred conveniently between PSG and United to assist with FFP they live on Mars.
That’s why all this speculation is just that, I’ll wait to the take over then it’s time not to speculate but work out which players will first be swapped over. pSG and Newcastle can not buy osimhen or Bellingham not because they don’t have the cash, they do but they would be banned from Uefa tournaments and fined due to not complying with the 90% rule in place this year that all amortised transfers, agent fees and wages must be no more than 90% of turnover.
https://www.themag.co.uk/2023/01/ne...over-deloitte-2023-rich-list-top-20-analysis/
When your wages are already 95-99% of your turnover and you have to include new transfers and agent fees amortised into your expenditure, it’s so obvious why Qatar want to buy united. Our revenue is still £580-620m when we are playing S… with 58 points in the PL and the worst GD on record, imagine what a wining united with a state of the art 100,000 capacity stadium will turnover over. And if fans don’t think that certain players will be transferred conveniently between PSG and United to assist with FFP they live on Mars.
That’s why all this speculation is just that, I’ll wait to the take over then it’s time not to speculate but work out which players will first be swapped over. pSG and Newcastle can not buy osimhen or Bellingham not because they don’t have the cash, they do but they would be banned from Uefa tournaments and fined due to not complying with the 90% rule in place this year that all amortised transfers, agent fees and wages must be no more than 90% of turnover.
With the new FFP rules, it means that a Middle East super rich state must be more prudent if they buy a relatively cheap
Club like Newcastle for £300m and increase it’s turnover like city did over a 15 year period to £600m, all be it by inflating sponsorship deals, this can’t be done any more because of the controls with FFP which will soon become only 70% of turnover with allowed in wages. Transfer and agent Fees by 2025/26.
Newcastle wage bill is already nearly 100% of its turnover. EG the club is working on increasing capacity to 56,000; they manage to get CL football this year and increase their sponsorship deal.
Turnover maxed out at £300m, they spend £170m on 4 players on 5 year contracts amortised at 37.5m and the wages go up from £171m to £235m plus they pay £15m in agents fees. Next year when the percentage is due to reduce to 80% they would have spent £287.5/300m or 96% so would be banned from Europe and face a huge fine. The following year it becomes 70% which makes it almost impossible to do what city did, so if your a Saudi state who wants results quickly and Qatar are looking at buying a group of football clubs like the city Group where Qatar would quite clearly be called the ‘United Group’ , your either looking to gatecrash the United party and pull the plug on Newcastle or your looking to buy a German club like Bayern or Dortmund, Italian club Luke AC Milan or a Spanish club Barcelona , the problem those clubs will never ever sell, maybe Milan but not the others.
This is what the Glaziers are really banking on, the easiest super club actually available for a state to truly flex their muscles and dominate football is only Manchester United, it’s why the Glaziers spent so much time in Qatar during the World Cup. Now if you are Sheikh Jassim and you have access to all that money and unlike PSG where they can’t spend Sweet FA because they are basically overtrading and breaking every FFP rule in the book what would you do? PSG have not won the CL even with there rich array of superstars, they simply pass the batten on and try again.
I keep saying this but no one really is looking at or understands these new rules , if United are bought by Qatar, there will be some transfers between the clubs that would not have happened had they not been owned by the same state. When Maguire goes to PSG for £40m, the inevitable outrage will start!
United Turnover is probably £560m this year and 90% of that will mean the club can spend £504m on wages, amortised transfer and upfront agent fees. The Transfers position can be increased by selling assets like Dean Henderson, Brandon Williams, Antony Elanga and Scott Mctominay because they have no transfer fee, We never paid anything for them if we sold them for a combined £60m on 4 year contracts then the club would have an additional £15m towards their amortised transfer budget.
Assuming wages are down from £385 to £335m (Europa League Clause)
Then £504-335m would means we have 169m for agent fees and amortised transfer fees over two windows, one in summer one on winter. Let’s assume we went after the following players this summer ;
D Raya -£25m (5 year contract)
V Osimhen £120m (5 year contract)
K M Jae - £50m (5 year contract)
A Rabiot - Free (5 year Contract)
M Kudas - 45m ( 5 year contract )
Sabitzer-20m (5 year contract )
Six players agents fees normally 5-10% maximum which is now in FIFA legislation so agents fees max would be £25m plus the total transfer amortised over 5 years which is £52m per year this is only summer
The club would have spent £77m of it £169m so could easily spend another £200-250m in the winter window.
Chelsea under Todd Boehly broke no FFP laws they just signed everybody on 7 year contracts which allowed them to spend nearly £600m over two windows.
My point is we could do all those transfers, send Maguire to PSG for £50m, Lindelof to Milan for £30m, buy J Timber and Dumfries for £70m and still buy Neymar or Mbappe for £100-200m, providing we have CL football for 2023/24 season as our Turnover could be £620-650m and Neymar or Mbappe would be paid in the same way they are now or the way City pay their superstars, half through the books in country of origin and the other half as a sporting ambassador of the state in that state.
Of course allowing either Neymar or Mbappe to leave Paris also conveniently solves their perilous position of being sanctioned by UEFA for not conforming to the 90% rule next season.
These lists are pointless until we see who actually owns Manchester United on the 1st June 2023.
Club like Newcastle for £300m and increase it’s turnover like city did over a 15 year period to £600m, all be it by inflating sponsorship deals, this can’t be done any more because of the controls with FFP which will soon become only 70% of turnover with allowed in wages. Transfer and agent Fees by 2025/26.
Newcastle wage bill is already nearly 100% of its turnover. EG the club is working on increasing capacity to 56,000; they manage to get CL football this year and increase their sponsorship deal.
Turnover maxed out at £300m, they spend £170m on 4 players on 5 year contracts amortised at 37.5m and the wages go up from £171m to £235m plus they pay £15m in agents fees. Next year when the percentage is due to reduce to 80% they would have spent £287.5/300m or 96% so would be banned from Europe and face a huge fine. The following year it becomes 70% which makes it almost impossible to do what city did, so if your a Saudi state who wants results quickly and Qatar are looking at buying a group of football clubs like the city Group where Qatar would quite clearly be called the ‘United Group’ , your either looking to gatecrash the United party and pull the plug on Newcastle or your looking to buy a German club like Bayern or Dortmund, Italian club Luke AC Milan or a Spanish club Barcelona , the problem those clubs will never ever sell, maybe Milan but not the others.
This is what the Glaziers are really banking on, the easiest super club actually available for a state to truly flex their muscles and dominate football is only Manchester United, it’s why the Glaziers spent so much time in Qatar during the World Cup. Now if you are Sheikh Jassim and you have access to all that money and unlike PSG where they can’t spend Sweet FA because they are basically overtrading and breaking every FFP rule in the book what would you do? PSG have not won the CL even with there rich array of superstars, they simply pass the batten on and try again.
I keep saying this but no one really is looking at or understands these new rules , if United are bought by Qatar, there will be some transfers between the clubs that would not have happened had they not been owned by the same state. When Maguire goes to PSG for £40m, the inevitable outrage will start!
United Turnover is probably £560m this year and 90% of that will mean the club can spend £504m on wages, amortised transfer and upfront agent fees. The Transfers position can be increased by selling assets like Dean Henderson, Brandon Williams, Antony Elanga and Scott Mctominay because they have no transfer fee, We never paid anything for them if we sold them for a combined £60m on 4 year contracts then the club would have an additional £15m towards their amortised transfer budget.
Assuming wages are down from £385 to £335m (Europa League Clause)
Then £504-335m would means we have 169m for agent fees and amortised transfer fees over two windows, one in summer one on winter. Let’s assume we went after the following players this summer ;
D Raya -£25m (5 year contract)
V Osimhen £120m (5 year contract)
K M Jae - £50m (5 year contract)
A Rabiot - Free (5 year Contract)
M Kudas - 45m ( 5 year contract )
Sabitzer-20m (5 year contract )
Six players agents fees normally 5-10% maximum which is now in FIFA legislation so agents fees max would be £25m plus the total transfer amortised over 5 years which is £52m per year this is only summer
The club would have spent £77m of it £169m so could easily spend another £200-250m in the winter window.
Chelsea under Todd Boehly broke no FFP laws they just signed everybody on 7 year contracts which allowed them to spend nearly £600m over two windows.
My point is we could do all those transfers, send Maguire to PSG for £50m, Lindelof to Milan for £30m, buy J Timber and Dumfries for £70m and still buy Neymar or Mbappe for £100-200m, providing we have CL football for 2023/24 season as our Turnover could be £620-650m and Neymar or Mbappe would be paid in the same way they are now or the way City pay their superstars, half through the books in country of origin and the other half as a sporting ambassador of the state in that state.
Of course allowing either Neymar or Mbappe to leave Paris also conveniently solves their perilous position of being sanctioned by UEFA for not conforming to the 90% rule next season.
These lists are pointless until we see who actually owns Manchester United on the 1st June 2023.
Wonderful idea and maybe we could sign 11 players over 2 or 3 transfer windows but not in the summer. Not even if Qatar buy the club will this happen. Because of the time and infrastructure required.
I have faith that EtH can coach the likes of Amad, Pellistri, Dalot and AwB to cover our right side. CM we do need to go in the market for and CM is the priority.
For GK I think we may end up sticking with DDG and buy a young GK with the prospect of being better at DDGs well documented weak spots.
Quick question
In multiple threads I've seen multiple posts such as " We won't be spending that in the summer as we are already at our FFP limit " or something similar.
My question being. How on earth does anyone know what our budget will be in the summer ( especially with new owners) ? Also, apologies if I'm just being lazy for not sitting down and looking into the actual figures but how does one know how close we are to the FFP limits and therefore can't afford to buy Jude and Osimhen this summer for example.
In multiple threads I've seen multiple posts such as " We won't be spending that in the summer as we are already at our FFP limit " or something similar.
My question being. How on earth does anyone know what our budget will be in the summer ( especially with new owners) ? Also, apologies if I'm just being lazy for not sitting down and looking into the actual figures but how does one know how close we are to the FFP limits and therefore can't afford to buy Jude and Osimhen this summer for example.
Can we please sign Ugarte?? 
I agree, this is not to be done in one transfer window but just illustrating what we need to cover over a few transfer windows to have a perfect team with 22 players that can compete and cover for each other. For 2023 the target should be to find the few players that can go in and start already from the beginning or compete with current starters from day one. The biggest priority is though a CF, but again only if the right person is available
Retegui been mentioned on here a few times, I see he's been called up by Italy so it'll be interesting to see how he does if he plays against England next week.
I mean if you really dig into it we need at a minimum
Gk to push de gea
Rb
Back up cb, maybe 2
2 midfielders, one a starter
2 strikers
But you can't do all that in one window
Gk to push de gea
Rb
Back up cb, maybe 2
2 midfielders, one a starter
2 strikers
But you can't do all that in one window
You lot are seriously underrating our squad. Think a top class CF like Osmihen and a top midfielder like FDJ or similar would have us up there as proper title contenders next season. That’s still £200m though in this market.
I think we only need 3 starters (rb being the other one) but our squad is poor and eth must think the same with the lack of rotation.
We need a starter in the form of Striker, CD and a box to box mid.
Above that we need some young and exciting players for the wings/striker etc
so 4-5 player, with 3 being absolute starters rest being young legs dying to make an impact.
Above that we need some young and exciting players for the wings/striker etc
so 4-5 player, with 3 being absolute starters rest being young legs dying to make an impact.
CD?
Back up CB? Maguire and Lindelof is as good as it gets as back up players go.
Central Defender I guess.
Who's he dropping to sign a starter?
They don't suit our style of play. Your back ups need to be of a similar vain for rotation. Maguire is too slow. He's a good alternative option though
Glazers out of United
Starting quality at Striker, goalkeeper and Central midfield plus good quality squad options in DM, RB and CB. We can forgo the RB and keep Dalot and AWB in tandem.
Starting quality at Striker, goalkeeper and Central midfield plus good quality squad options in DM, RB and CB. We can forgo the RB and keep Dalot and AWB in tandem.
Agreed
Right now we have two defenders who are absolutely perfect. But after that the defenders that come on are absolutely a level below. Considering Varanes age and the number of games that are being played we absolutely need a starter at CD.
There's also the factor whether they will be happy to be only rotation/emergency options for a second consecutive season. I'm happy if we get an upgrade on Maguire, but it could be a struggle to find someone who's willing to pay him anywhere near to what we do. I can see him perhaps going on loan somewhere.
I hope we can replace de Gea, Maguire and AWB or Dalot. Furthermore, I hope we bring in a central midfielder and a striker. That is five players, and probably eight significant transactions. Would be quite a big job. Not sure it is possible.