Freudian slip, my friend.
İlkay Gündoğan Transfer Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Freudian slip, my friend.
German newbie says that journos close to Klopp say a swap deal with Kagawa will not happen. People overestimate Klopp's love for him. Plus, he wont move Micky back to CM just to accommodate Kagawa because he feels he would be wasted there.
Newbie also says that his condition is a spinal problem that cannot be cured: Spondylolisthesis. He has to hope that he doesn't get a severe relapse of it through special training. Taking into account that he was out for 6 months, and the rigours of a professional footba'l player, there are concerns that he may not be able to continue his career. It might be a reason why he would choose Spain over England as it is less physical there.
Newbie also says that his condition is a spinal problem that cannot be cured: Spondylolisthesis. He has to hope that he doesn't get a severe relapse of it through special training. Taking into account that he was out for 6 months, and the rigours of a professional footba'l player, there are concerns that he may not be able to continue his career. It might be a reason why he would choose Spain over England as it is less physical there.
Not if you want a fluid, interchanging, narrow front four. In such a setup, Rooney should definitely be a striker. Had Rooney gone to the likes of Dortmund, Barca, Real, Arsenal or Chelsea, then he'd be played as a striker 9 out of 10 times. He might have been pushed out as a wide forward in Barca, seeing as they have Messi, but that's the only exception I can see. The only reason Rooney has been playing as a "deep striker" for us, is because of our rigid playstyle and focus on wingplay. In no other setup than ours would a player of Rooney's skillset be used as anything else but a striker.
Now we have 3 brilliant technical players, 2 of which thrive in the AM position. It would be a huge mistake to play Rooney in the AM position now, imo. It's time for a change of style! Let Kagawa and Mata fight for the AM position, with the loser being pushed out to the left wing. Let Rooney and RVP fight for the striker position.
I've just been messaged by ManniKaltz in the newbs, Dortmund follower who had this to say about Gundogan.
Sincerely hope the guy can still fulfill what should be a terrific career.
Sincerely hope the guy can still fulfill what should be a terrific career.
It would be heart-breaking to see a talent like that retire in his early twenties. Doesn't exactly sound promising if ManniKaltz is correct though.
What if you just want to score goals and win games? You're living in a dream world if you think that would be first choice. Van Persie starts when fit. Kagawa will be watching when the rest are fit more often than not.
That might be what happens, but it's the wrong call none the less. Rooney is better as a striker. Especially in a narrow 4-2-3-1 with players like Mata running the show. Pushing Rooney back into that AM position is gonna disrupt our play and arguably waste yet another real AM.
I can see why pushing Kagawa out wide could be justified, given his modest price. But Mata is 3 times as expensive and proven in the PL as a top AM. Surely he'll take the AM position! So what happens to Rooney and RVP then? Do one of them play wide? That, in my opinion, is way worse than playing Kagawa on the wing. Especially when we have Mata in the center, who surely will make Kagawa play better as well, seeing as he thrives alongside players like him.
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Actually, if Mata starts, I don't really care if Kagawa plays on the wing. Mata will bring out the best in him anyways.
Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa
----- Rooney/RVP ------
There's be no need to play those four and sacrifice the goal scoring ability of Rooney or Van Persie. Dropping either would be moronic.
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So you'd rather limit the player who's been the best offensive playmaker in the PL for several seasons by pushing him out to a position he's not particularly comfortable with, after signing him for a club record?!
Wake up! We're in 2014 now! The goals aren't gonna come just by adding as many strikers as possible! You need possession, creativity, speed, quick thinking, technique and actually create the chances in order to score. If the signing of Mata doesn't signal a change in United's style, then I've officially given up on Moyes as a manager. I'll remain a bitter critic until he either is sacked or actually wins something of significance.
Mata would be more than comfortable playing wide in a three behind a striker and we wouldn't have to sacrifice our best player. Win win. This isn't really the thread for discussing the rather preposterous idea of dropping one of our two best players though.
Surely Januzaj will play less now? I'm sure the management will be wary of burning him out.
Thus, it's more likely to be Kagawa, Rooney and Mata behind RvP. Unless Valencia continues to play, of course.
Thus, it's more likely to be Kagawa, Rooney and Mata behind RvP. Unless Valencia continues to play, of course.
While Mata is more comfortable than him on the wing, it would be like Kagawa all over again. Rooney isn't a playmaker, and he'll never be. Players like Mata and Kagawa will be severly limited with Rooney in a playmaking position, unless they're allowed to play a more risky and entertaining form of football. That's not gonna happen under Moyes, though.
I can imagine the phone call
Moyes: Hey, Juan!
Mata: Si senior?
Moyes: Would you like to come to a significantly weaker team that's likely to not get any CL football next year? And while we're at it, would you like to play out of position? I know that you struggled a bit on the wing for Chelsea, but that's because you had Oscar pulling the strings! That lad's got nothing on our Wayne! I mean, have you seen his long-balls?! You'll be out interchanging with our 32 year old leftback in no time! Doesn't that sound wonderful? Juan? Juan? Why are you crying?
I agree, so I'll stop there.
@Comsmit thats actually really sad to hear.
Provided there is intense work going on on the training field to ensure that there is a vast improvement in our movement, yes. In a static, gutless 442? Nah, we'll not be getting the best out of Mata. For £37m, we demand his best.
Shame about Gundogan, by the way.
Cracking player. Hope his problems aren't as bad as feared.
Cracking player. Hope his problems aren't as bad as feared.
The dream scenario.
Yeah, Mata was awful playing wide for Chelsea.While Mata is more comfortable than him on the wing, it would be like Kagawa all over again. Rooney isn't a playmaker, and he'll never be. Players like Mata and Kagawa will be severly limited with Rooney in a playmaking position, unless they're allowed to play a more risky and entertaining form of football. That's not gonna happen under Moyes, though.
I can imagine the phone call
Moyes: Hey, Juan!
Mata: Si senior?
Moyes: Would you like to come to a significantly weaker team that's likely to not get any CL football next year? And while we're at it, would you like to play out of position? I know that you struggled a bit on the wing for Chelsea, but that's because you had Oscar pulling the strings! That lad's got nothing on our Wayne! I mean, have you seen his long-balls?! You'll be out interchanging with our 32 year old leftback in no time! Doesn't that sound wonderful? Juan? Juan? Why are you crying?
I agree, so I'll stop there.
the point being we wouldn't get the best out of our squad by leaving out Van Persie. Too much emphasis is placed on formation. It's a an easy excuse at the minute. The difference in how they're played is minimal.
That's awful news about Gundogan's back. If the condition is as bad as it sounds, we should steer well clear. Potential Hargreaves 2.0 there and we don't have the time for that. We're in need of a solid and consistent contributor.
It'd be really sad if the news about his back is true. Such a talented player.
That back problem would be really bad news. I know someone who has it and even with physio and specific exercises it's very hard to manage. Of course like most medical conditions there are varying degrees and a variety of underlying causes, but even so it's got to put a buyer beware label on him. I hope it doesn't affect his career - maybe the break from football has helped him find a longterm solution.
Any footballer with back issues has to be thoroughly evaluated before jumping in on a transfer
We are the club that bought Hargreaves....
Of course we wouldn't, he's our best player after all. However, formation, tactics and work on the training field is hugely important. Our lack of movement is a product of what goes on in training, and the formation plays a part. Hopefully, the signing of Mata indicates a change in that we'll actually attempt to create through the middle instead of gutless crosses in a static 442. Surely you want the same, unless you like the style of football we are playing?
I still recall that saga, very strange one.
He didnt have any back issues and he looked to be relatively free of any long term injuries when we signed him.
He'd just recovered from a serious knee injury which ruled him out for half a season.
Really? I heard he had several copies of the NME from 1991-1993?
Yes he had but all reports i.e medical etc showed him to be free of injury it was just unfortunate that once he did break down that was the end of him.
I like what you did there
Forgetting transfers, that news about Gundogan is sad, hopefully he can manage the problem and have a decent career, such a talented player.
Shocked to hear that his back problems could become so serious. Seems like a big gamble for anyone to be buying him now.
fecking hell, he was my muppet dream, if we do sign him knowing our luck he'll end up being Hargreaves mk II.
No you won't.
You'll bitch and moan even if we win a title, and probably even say we managed it despite having Moyes. It's an agenda.
No but the formation isn't the issue it's the mentality. There's no reason on earth we can't play better football in a 4-4-2 or a variation of it as that is all 4-2-3-1 is. The important factor is the tempo at which we play our game and the freedom given to the team. Changing formation isn't going to lead to be free football if they're not allowed to attack teams consistently or emphasis placed on the ball in training.
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I think we're making similar points. 442, 4231, whatever we want to call it, you're right, it's all a variation of the same thing. However, the way we're setting up right now isn't working, primarily because we are playing with two strikers, often static, and with wide men, some of which aren't actually wingers, who struggle due to the team's general lack of movement. It affects everybody. If Moyes can sort this out, and I'm admittedly sceptical, then we can play whatever variation we like, at least we'll look cohesive. If Mata is bunged out wide in the way we're playing right now, with no movement, then we'll not be getting the best out of him.
Anderson hadn't fully recovered from a serious leg break when we bought him. Not sure he ever did..
Didn't Yaya have back issues, and that's why Barcelona sold him?
he forced the move from what i remember
He did have back issues but not the reason why he was sold, Yaya pushed for the move for a variety of reasons
If you're playing a team with a good midfield, you'd get mauled with that formation. It's used during the game to adjust to tactics now my managers. Rarely you see top teams use that formation to be fair.
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