That's a big underrating of our club.
İlkay Gündoğan Transfer Thread
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He's just letting off some steam. The summer is still in our system.
We are obviously one of the biggest and greatest clubs in the world but right now we're not an overly attractive proposition for footballers. Although I'm pretty sure most would pick us over Arsenal.
Why are we not an overly attractive proposition? Who says we aren't? Leaving Dortmund for United is not a step down.
This place stuns me at times.
I never said it was?
Obviously he's going to extremes but we aren't as attractive to footballers right now as we were a few years ago.
I'm thinking the same thing. Oh the gifs, oh the gifs!
On a slightly different note - what kind of wages are Dortmund offering? Seems to me they need to make players like Gündogan stay on if they want to establish themselves at the top "permanently". Klopp is a great manager, they were in the CL final last season, they're widely lauded for their style of play, etc. I'd want to play for such a club. But, of course, if I could make twice the amount of money elsewhere...well, there you go.
I never said you did. I was referring to the original post, insinuating he wouldn't leave Dortmund to come to us.
He's not "going to extremes" he's massively underrating United as a club, and generally being ridiculous. As has been the case in the football forums of late.
I'm out, I'm off to the doge thread to call Irwin a cnut. There is less retard in there.
That's not a reference to you.
Isn't that exactly what going to extremes is, i.e. being ridiculous?
I'd have classed going to extremes as being at the extreme end of something factual, or over exaggerating for effect, not pure invention and pulling stuff out of your arse.
Anyway, this time I'm out. Please don't quote me.
I knew you'd do it, you turd.Nev you are a narky git. I knew someone would bite on that post though. Look I'm not underrating United as in everything the club is and stands for etc. But I'm trying to look at it from a players perspective. I'm sorry but we aren't as attractive as we perhaps were to players a few years ago, when we had Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney etc. all marshalled by a legendary manager and Champions of Europe. United have lost a bit of sparkle. I'm sure Gundogan would find us appealing but there is every chance Arsenal may now be just as appealing to a player of his ilk. Great stadium, great manager, talented players...a genuine star just purchased for massive money, the ability and willingness to now pay top wages.
I worded it all a bit poorly I suppose. I just don't feel we would be in the running to sign him if he became available. There are too many other top sides who simply have more pulling power right now. Moyes will need to rebuild United on the quiet, with cheaper, lesser reputation players who will mould a unit in his image.
You have hit the nail on the head! Arsenal have location over us but that's it! We are league champions and the dominant force in England and a massive club in Europe!
You insinuated it would be a step-down to leave Dortmund for United, and that Arsenal are more of a draw. Nonsense.
Now, had you said he'd go to Madrid, Barca, Bayern before us then I'd grudgingly agree, but United a step-down from Dortmund and Arsenal more appealing? No chance.
I swear we have these things too.. .So why would a club that hasn't won anything in 8 years be more appealing to him than ours which won the league by a distance just last year? We're perhaps a little less appealing than before, but we are still somewhere that players want to go at a top level.
Well Arsene does like a bit of German these days. I wouldn't be surprised if we let another fan target go by without so much as a inquiry
Getting Gundogan would be over kill of quality. we already have Fellaini and Anderson on our books.
Most likely Ed values him @ 3,75 mil pushing to 5 with add-ons. So you know, no deal.
I said if he wants to leave Dortmund it would surely be for a better team, or at least one on an equal footing right now. I'm sorry but Dortmund are better than United as things stand. They play terrific football in front of 80,000 amazing supporters, with a brilliant progressive coach driving them on to better themselves. They are a big club, rich, pay good wages and reached the final of the Champions League last year. They are a team on the upside, United are arguably regressing. The Bundesliga is really expanding its reach and with that comes greater monetary benefits. Maybe Gundogan doesn't see United as a step up? Just a thought.
Bayern, Real and Barca pay top wages and have star appeal for obvious reasons beyond our control, but there are all sorts of factors determining a players choice of club. Footballing philosophy, manager, stadia, potential, teammates, money etc. As well as Arsenal you could throw City and Chelsea into the mix. Both have appeal in similar/differing ways. Arsenal have a great stadium, great manager, great footballing philosophy, potential, are cash rich and can now, and are prepared to, pay top wages for talented footballers. They also have 2 of his international teammates on their books.
I think you have your head a little in the clouds sometimes Nev. United are not the default destination for players after the big 3, there are new players in the market and it makes acquiring a player of Gundogan's class all the more difficult.
Don't agree, but that's all I'm saying. It's a pointless argument.
I'd rather have my head in the clouds than up my own arse.
lolzy
Moyes isn't a great manager...not yet and with no guarantee he ever will be. We just lost a truly great one. We haven't just purchased Mesut Ozil, an international teammate of Gundogan. Arsenal are playing better football than us. Gundogan isn't going to look at last year is he? He will look at the future. Are there guarantees United will be more successful than Arsenal post-Ferguson? Its debatable and something a lot of players might consider.
I'm not saying we aren't still a draw, we are. Whether we are a draw to the best players in Europe is debatable. Things are different now and until Moyes pulls off a signing or two like Gundogan, that feeling will remain for me. I just want to specify I'm not being negative, just realistic. Moyes may need to shape a team without players of his ilk.
Wow!!! Just wow... Dortmund better than United? Leaving Dortmund to go to any of the prems top 4 would be a career progression.
They don't have our history or fan base but if you were looking at the teams, managers and how they are supported you'd be forgiven for at least saying it's close.
Fair play!
Close and better are two different things. I just wish people would be realistic. We were light years ahead of Madrid when Ronaldo left us... But he still moved. Gundogan is not going to stay at Dortmund simple because they are playing good football.
Dortmund aren't near United. They'll be dominated on the domestic scene for the forseeable future, they're not going to look that attractive when they play in a league with Bayern and don't have the means of competing currently.
It's baffling though, isn't it. Players choosing clubs because of their history rather than their current team and style. Gündogan, as was Kagawa, is part of a really special team with an excellent manager. Instead of being one of many throughout history, why not become one of few who helped create a top club? It's the same weird logic that retains Liverpool as a top club. They haven't been for a while now, yet they are often referred to as one of the great clubs in Europe. Looking at the present and the future, Dortmund is probably not much of a step down in terms of football from United; it's the other stuff that makes United a stronger contender, like stadium, heritage and support.
If Dortmund had kept Kagawa and could manage to keep Lewandowski, would you still make that same conclusion? They have a very solid first eleven, but arguably lacks depth. It's a young squad though, so they could improve further. If players weren't so intent on playing for a "prestigious" club, we would see more clubs emerging. At the moment though, it's mostly for a short period before their best players seem to slip through their fingers.
Why the wow factor? Dortmund are a better football team than Manchester United right now, its not some form of heresy to say that, its realistic. Gundogan is a German international, he's plyed his trade in Germany and possibly he doesn't feel United are as bigger draw as we think? I'm looking at things from his perspective.
Who is the prems top four? Nobody has any clue how that is shaping up do they? English teams have been piss poor in Europe recently and are clearly not the uber draw they were at the end of the last decade.
So is life unfortunately.. I wish Ze Roberto and Ballack would have stayed at Bayer but once again the big club can and snapped them up. Which is why If you look at the similarities the same will happen to Dortmund.... Yes they are more stable but they just don't have the power to keep players after they reach a certain level.
You just said we don't know how he thinks but yet you assume he wouldn't want to move, even though everything except a good Champions league display says United is a progressive move. The same teams that finished in the top four last season. Them.
What a knee jerk load of bollocks. 'Arsenal have won some games consistently against average teams this season, must be a top club now'
Light years ahead! You overstate to bizarre levels. Ronaldo had his heart in Madrid and always did...poor comparison.
Not even half a season and they are now more attractive than us, absolutely baffling stuff.
Spot on, but such is life. One might ask where players would benefit most from playing though - at an up and coming club like Dortmund, or at at an giant like Real Madrid or Juventus.
It doesn't really matter how unfair it is, it's just more attractive to play for more historic clubs, they pay well, are more likely to consistently be successful and will give you bigger scope for a career after football due to the fame.
I know that, but if you stop being cynical, it's actually a very interesting discussion. Why would you leave a very interesting and promising project only to be part of a more historic club where you will find it very hard to become one of the greats. Would it not rather be more interesting to be part of something new where you were part of creating a big club.
Imagine if the class of 92 had gone to an even more prestigious club than United at the time? (I know United were a big historic club at that time also, but still)
Ay, it's also more interesting earning 150k as opposed to 50k
Arsenal are a top club. The idea that a class player won't want to join them is just ludicrous. Wenger would be a huge factor in them getting top players as well.
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