İlkay Gündoğan Transfer Thread

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Sphaero said:
So Sahin was a complete failure for Liverpool, right? Good to know that you can judge a player after ten fecking games, whom three games he was played completey out of position and two as CM which were class (vs. Norwich and West Brom). So that leaves us with five poor games in a new league and system after not having played professional football in competitions for six months. Thank you very much.

This is not just directed at you, but everyone who likes to use Sahin as prime example for a player, who only works in one team. I would have no problem agreeing with them if Sahin would have actually gotten the time and chances to adapt. He played a grand total of 127 minutes for Real Madrid in the Primera Division. His year there was defined by injuries (missing most of the pre season and the whole start of the season) and lacking trust by Mourinho. Rodgers had the brilliant idea to shove Sahin in the attacking midfield, when he slowly got his foot on the ground in England. When that didn´t work (what a surprise!) he simply let him fall like a hot potato.

Then he came back to Dortmund and slowly got back into form. At this point in the season, he is one of their best players so far and able to replace the currently injured Gündogan. Must be the system right? While it is true that certain core ideas are the same, there are several strategic differences between the team 2010/2011 and 2013/2014, a lot of them actually because Sahin departed in the first place. But the players are the same, right? Players like Götze, Kagawa, Barrios... oh wait, they are not there anymore. But at least Kuba, Lewandowski and Großkreutz are still there. Well, the first two were actually reserve players for the most part and a far cry from the players they are now back then and the last one plays a different position now, but they are still there. Reus, Aubameyang, Hofmann, Mkhitaryan? All came after the originally left.

What I believe is the main reason, why Sahin plays on a different level at Dortmund than elsewhere? Trust by the coach. This is the biggest difference between Klopp and the other two in this topic.
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The point I'm making is that not all players are guaranteed success, and that watching players in good sides in systems they are comfortable with can make all the difference. I especially think that's the case with central midfield players given a defined role, who in a side with very good attacking options in front of them can look like world beaters whilst being neat and tidy and spraying the ball about under reduced pressure - often as their opponents look to keep the wingers/forwards/attacking midfielder quiet.

This lad looks very neat and tidy and picks a good pass while being able to make a tackle - but he'd cost a lot of money and there are other players in the Dortmund team I'd take over him because I think in the system Moyes looks like going with a £40 million winger or forward may prove more useful. I suspect that wound be the issue for Moyes.

Fabregas on the other hand offers goals - but I'm still not sure where he would necessarily fit in either.
 
Carrick should have no bearing on whether we buy Gundogan, Moyes seems to want a ball player who can tackle and carry the ball out of midfield, Herrara's game is not that dissimilar to Gundogan's, neither score as many goals as Fabregas did but he often played in a 3 man midfield at Arsenal where he had the AM license.
 
RedRover said:
The point I'm making is that not all players are guaranteed success, and that watching players in good sides in systems they are comfortable with can make all the difference. I especially think that's the case with central midfield players given a defined role, who in a side with very good attacking options in front of them can look like world beaters whilst being neat and tidy and spraying the ball about under reduced pressure - often as their opponents look to keep the wingers/forwards/attacking midfielder quiet.

This lad looks very neat and tidy and picks a good pass while being able to make a tackle - but he'd cost a lot of money and there are other players in the Dortmund team I'd take over him because I think in the system Moyes looks like going with a £40 million winger or forward may prove more useful. I suspect that wound be the issue for Moyes.

Fabregas on the other hand offers goals - but I'm still not sure where he would necessarily fit in either.
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Honestly you should watch more of Gündogan before you judge him. Gündogan actually thrives under pressure. Probably the most pressing resistant CM Germany has.


 
do.ob said:
Honestly you should watch more of Gündogan before you judge him. Gündogan actually thrives under pressure. Probably the most pressing resistant CM Germany has.


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Why - I've said he looks a good player.

The issue for me is that he would probably command a huge transfer fee, which could perhaps be better spent on a player who can really influence the game in the final third - a really top drawer winger or (if the Rooney situation isn't resolved favourably) someone to play behind Van Persie.

He'd cleary be an asset to any squad, but given that United have Carrick's passing ability and a bit of a stopper in Fellaini I don't neccessarily think United would break the bank for a deeper midfield player, rather than try to address other areas which may need to be improved next summer. The fact that they weren't preapred to pay the fee for Herrera might suggest that's the case.

As it stands the wide players we have are not doing the job - hopefully Nani and Valencia can find form and Zaha develop well - if so then maybe this lad would be a more realistic target.
 
RedRover said:
Why - I've said he looks a good player.

The issue for me is that he would probably command a huge transfer fee, which could perhaps be better spent on a player who can really influence the game in the final third - a really top drawer winger or (if the Rooney situation isn't resolved favourably) someone to play behind Van Persie.

He'd cleary be an asset to any squad, but given that United have Carrick's passing ability and a bit of a stopper in Fellaini I don't neccessarily think United would break the bank for a deeper midfield player, rather than try to address other areas which may need to be improved next summer. The fact that they weren't preapred to pay the fee for Herrera might suggest that's the case.

As it stands the wide players we have are not doing the job - hopefully Nani and Valencia can find form and Zaha develop well - if so then maybe this lad would be a more realistic target.
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As much as I love Gundogan, I think I also agree that this player you have described in bold is something the team needs, and now with the signing of Fellaini - is more likely to take us to the next level.

Going forward we look one-paced and unimaginative much of the time, and I worry about us having enough to create enough against solid teams. We barely looked like scoring against Liverpool or Chelsea for instance.

I think this player is just as required as a midfielder personally, and wouldn't be upset if we managed to get a talent out of the really top drawer in this mould as our next big signing.
 
Rozay said:
As much as I love Gundogan, I think I also agree that this player you have described in bold is something the team needs, and now with the signing of Fellaini - is more likely to take us to the next level.

Going forward we look one-paced and unimaginative much of the time, and I worry about us having enough to create enough against solid teams. We barely looked like scoring against Liverpool or Chelsea for instance.

I think this player is just as required as a midfielder personally, and wouldn't be upset if we managed to get a talent out of the really top drawer in this mould as our next big signing.
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Indeed. It would be nice to have a strong enough side to be able to add a midfield player who is perhaps a long term, top drawer replacement for Carrick. As it stands, teams like Real Madrid and Barca can pay big bucks for one or two players each summer because they have an embarrasment of riches in their squad.

We're light elsewhere for me, in areas more critical than in deep central positions - but that's a discussion for another thread.
 
We will bid £23m for him as we're "always in for the best players". He will sign for Real for £50m and we will all be heart broken.
 
Do Arsenal need ANOTHER midfielder?? I doubt they are actually interested. They need a striker and improvements in defence. He would be great for us though :drool:
 
So every time the daily star and caught offside report a hilarious rumour that gets picked up and printed in the Guardian rumour mill just for laughs means we should keep bumping threads. There are only 3 teams that Gundogan will go to when Dortmund decide to sell and I am guessing Real, Barca or PSG.....We'd only still have a small chance of getting him even if those 3 clubs were not interested inhim which would be very unlikely
 
Ringo 07 said:
So every time the daily star and caught offside report a hilarious rumour that gets picked up and printed in the Guardian rumour mill just for laughs means we should keep bumping threads. There are only 3 teams that Gundogan will go to when Dortmund decide to sell and I am guessing Real, Barca or PSG.....We'd only still have a small chance of getting him even if those 3 clubs were not interested inhim which would be very unlikely
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Welcome to the transfer forum.
 
Gundogan is definitely the 1. If we wanted to go batshit crazy and he is available, I would be more than happy if we smashed our transfer record.

Pace, passing, goals, tempo, a bit of a bite in him, he is just everything we are crying out for.

Thiago, Gundogan, Pogba and Verratti are the 4 best young CM's around IMO.

With Sahin settled back into Dortmund quite well, they could perhaps be tempted with a big offer.
 
No chance would we sit back and watch him go elsewhere without making a move, unless he had declared he will not join us.
 
Rozay said:
No chance would we sit back and watch him go elsewhere without making a move, unless he had declared he will not join us.
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I think there is every chance of that happening, personally.
 
Arsenal keep buying midfielders like we keep buying strikers. How the feck are they going to accommodate Gundogan in their midfield. Sell Artreta?
 
Pexbo said:
I think there is every chance of that happening, personally.
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I would have thought that myself a while back, but I must say that having just finished reading Fergie's book, it has highlighted to me again that the club often don't get enough credit in certain areas, with transfers in particular. Often us fans are screaming at our computers and seem to think we are the only ones who can tell that a player is very good, but chances are the club have been on to him years before we even heard of him.

The club have identified a need to 'replace Paul Scholes', and Gundogan appears to fit the skill-set. I have no doubt that his file is in Moyes' office on a list somewhere under the 'midfield' section.
 
Our record identifying and indeed purchasing necessary midfielders is fecking shocking. If he was to leave Dortmund it would surely be for a side better or currently equal to Dortmund. Unless he has harboured ambitions to play for United I seriously doubt we would have a chance.

Let's face it, Arsenal are probably a more attractive destination for him right now. The Özil deal has made them serious players.
 
Comsmit said:
Our record identifying and indeed purchasing necessary midfielders is fecking shocking. If he was to leave Dortmund it would surely be for a side better or currently equal to Dortmund. Unless he has harboured ambitions to play for United I seriously doubt we would have a chance.

Let's face it, Arsenal are probably a more attractive destination for him right now. The Özil deal has made them serious players.
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Well despite the shocking summer I've still got my trust fully invested in Moyes. He knows we all think he and Ed cocked up in the summer, and he's not going to make the same mistake twice. And even then I don't think it was a mistake, he is to take his own time in assessing the club and it's needs, and rather than signing Fergie's targets (such as Thiago) he will decide on his own over the coming months. It's a controversial way of going about business especially from the fans perspective but come the January or next summer window, he will have by then compiled his own list of wants and deadwood and I'm sure it'll be a much more satisfying than the one we just experienced.

^^^ don't know if any of that made any sense
 
Rozay said:
I would have thought that myself a while back, but I must say that having just finished reading Fergie's book, it has highlighted to me again that the club often don't get enough credit in certain areas, with transfers in particular. Often us fans are screaming at our computers and seem to think we are the only ones who can tell that a player is very good, but chances are the club have been on to him years before we even heard of him.

The club have identified a need to 'replace Paul Scholes', and Gundogan appears to fit the skill-set. I have no doubt that his file is in Moyes' office on a list somewhere under the 'midfield' section.
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He was on the radar three or four years ago, apparently. We were definitely aware of him - as we were aware of Özil before he became a household name. Goes without saying, really. We have a scout or two around the world, people who are paid good money to know a wee bit more of what's going on than yer average FM playing muppet.

In short, what seems like an odd reluctance on Fergie's part to strengthen CM certainly wasn't down to him not being aware of talents like Gündogan.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
He was on the radar three or four years ago, apparently. We were definitely aware of him - as we were aware of Özil before he became a household name. Goes without saying, really. We have a scout or two around the world, people who are paid good money to know a wee bit more of what's going on than yer average FM playing muppet.

In short, what seems like an odd reluctance on Fergie's part to strengthen CM certainly wasn't down to him not being aware of talents like Gündogan.
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I'm sure its usually the case that all of the top clubs are watching a lot of the same players.

Any criticism of us not picking players up is ridiculous. The club will have been watching another god knows how many players of a similar age in a similar position. The difficulty is not identifying talented young players - its finding the one or two who will make it at the very top level amongst the hundreds of potential stars. Its easy to say " we should have signed x" five years later when he's a CL regular.
 
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