Even taking goals aside Morata and Giroud can't be compared.
Álvaro Morata | Chelsea player
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Like Pogba, you pay not just for what he is (cos he is already a very good striker) but more for what he will likely become. While there is more to being a striker than just goals, that he can outscore Benzema and Bale while coming off the bench, shows he is good enough to start at a top club. Pipita was in the same situation before he left for Napoli, 3yrs later he is the most expensive player in Serie A.
Other clubs are no longer waiting to buy the players when they reach their peak but getting them well before then. If you wait for them to reach 27/28yrs, they will likely be already tied up elsewhere and (if available) will require massive fees and wages but offer very short return period. Dybala, Kroos, Isco, Varane, and Neymar are some of the players that joined their current club well before they reached their peak and likely not going to be for sale any time soon.
If United get Morata, we have a very good striker that will likely become great and provide quality service for 6yrs+. The club needs to assemble the core of the team that will play alongside Pogba for 5yrs+. Not be in the market for a new striker every 2-3yrs.
Obviously Morata has had great teammates, but for his career he has 58 goals in 7240 minutes as a pro, so a goal every 124 minutes. For comparison, only Kane (97), Giroud (100) and Aguero (120) scored 10 goals and exceeded that ratio this year in the Prem.
For a 24 year old who presumably is much better now than he was at 20, that's impressive, even if he's often scoring against tired defenses or brought on when his team is laying siege to their opponents.
And his hold-up play really is better than anyone we have (assuming Ibra is gone) by a longshot.
For a 24 year old who presumably is much better now than he was at 20, that's impressive, even if he's often scoring against tired defenses or brought on when his team is laying siege to their opponents.
And his hold-up play really is better than anyone we have (assuming Ibra is gone) by a longshot.
Don't think he's that good personally. Would even re-sign Chicharito instead of him.
Great player and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg
And he's very marketable and has a pretty looking wife. Ed will love signing a player like that
And he's very marketable and has a pretty looking wife. Ed will love signing a player like that
He is miles better than Hernandez.
Hernandez is just a poacher. Morata has much more to his game and is only going to get better.
I don't think any of that is true. I mean, I haven't seen his wife though.
Morata is a good fit for a Jose striker. He is tall, good at headers, can hold up the ball well, has good link up play, can dribble and has good long shots. He has scored 20 goals this season from the bench. His link up play will allow players like Griezmann and Martial to flourish. He is 25 years old and just entering his peak. Now is the time to move for him. His overall game is better than most of the strikers like Lukaku, Belotti, Aubameyang, etc. We simply don't have better options right now.
Actually he would, madrid won't take anything less than 60-70 mn for him, if that ain't arm and leg i don't know what is.
People here seem to be putting out his stats to prove how great a player he is, forget a few basic things. He isn't starting for madrid, if he is so good why doesn't he start more for them, especially with zidane who doesn't seem to be hindered by the x players must always start issue as benitez was.
Also while comparing stats many seem to have discounted the fact that he plays for real madrid in la liga, we are nowhere near real in terms of player for player comparison especially offensively, add to that your average la liga teams are weaker than your average epl team. He is scoring 15-20 goals off the bench is a great stat, we just need to remember he is doing so in a team that has scored 150+ goals this season. How many did we score last season?
He is a decent player but both madrid and juventus seemed to use him off the bench rather than start him upfront, if we are to compete with those 2, he definitely isn't the player who should be our first choice.
Average la liga teams are weaker than PL but Celta Vigo finished 13th in la liga and I doubt any club in the lower half of the PL can get that far. Even Spurs was eliminated by Gent, Southampton couldnt get out of their group and West Ham didnt even make it into the group stages. Evidence says la liga is better than PL at all levels.
Morata is not starting at Madrid cos Zidane prefers his algerian/french godson in Benzema. Zidane plays his own politics and saying he is not hindered by hindered by the "x players must always start issue" issue just shows your know less about Madrid. Madrid can afford the luxury of not starting him as they have a player like CR that carries the burden of goal scoring. When Morata has played, it has often been with the B-team with non of the usual starters like kroos, Modric, CR etc., yet he has managed to score against half of the top 8 teams in la liga and scored more than Benzema and Bale. At juve, he was good enough to start and score in all 3 games of the CL semis and final. His scoring record for the NT is also very good.
If we want to compete with Madrid, Juve and other top clubs, we have to sign players that will the next wave of top players and Morata is one of them. He is moving away from Madrid cos he wants to be a starter and we can offer him that. If we dont sign him now, we might never have the opportunity to sign in the future and worse still there are no better alternatives in the market.
So you are saying gent are better than Tottenham because they beat them in a 2 legged tie Tottenham did not care about, great logic, i suppose epl must be worse than Belgian league too as their 2 teams made it to R16 unlike epl whose only 1 team did so.
English teams normally don't take europa seriously, i know it won't fit your worldview but it is a fact. Man for man your average la liga team is weaker than the epl counterpart. Also my point wasn't strength of the league but more about gap between teams, your midtable la liga team will hardly ever trouble real but a midtable epl team on its day could beat utd.
His NT team record means zilch, i dont need to tell people the difference between playing for NT and club nor even give a list of players who are shit at club level but unbeatable at NT level and vice versa. Again with juve you cherry pick stats to suit your agenda, if he was so good that he started both CL semis and final why was he second choice to llorente and tevez in Serie a, by your logic Serie a must be more difficult than CL if a guy who isn't first choice for league is sure shot startet for cups the cup must be second grade compared to the league.
Now onto your madrid issues, Benzema is on his last legs, madrid trying to buy mbappe tells me they are planning for a future without Benzema atleast in short term as i think mbappe will eventually replace ronaldo as madrid's go to man. Morata scoring more than Benzema is much like martial scoring more than rooney last season, tells you the starter has declined not how good the sub has become.
I checked the whole top 8 stat you posted, since you like to spin things how's this one for a spin, your top 8 stat shows me he couldn't score against any of the top 4. Heck he wasn't even considered as a worthwhile sub for matches against barcelona and atletico. He played against sevilla 4 times the only top 4 team he got to play against, real madrid scored 13 goals in those approximate 360 minutes, morata played 281 of those scoring a huge 0 goals in them.
He is a decent player but he isn't going to be a top one, madrid wouldn't have been letting him go and buying mbappe if he was.
Morata has been very good this season, too many people are stuck on his past goalscoring record. Looking at his form this season, his goalscoring rate and overall play has been great. He's better than Benzema but for whatever reason, Benzema continues to start over him. (I guess French/Algerian bias?)
I think he's severely underrated by many on here. He is very good with his back to goal, good link up play, pretty quick and scores goals. His performances for Juve during their CL run two years ago were phenomenal, and every time ive watched him for Madrid he's looked class.
His goal total might be low, but he has never had a consistent run as a starter for Madrid, and when he plays he's basically playing with the B team (which is pretty good to be fair).
I think he would be perfect for us if the price is right.
His goal total might be low, but he has never had a consistent run as a starter for Madrid, and when he plays he's basically playing with the B team (which is pretty good to be fair).
I think he would be perfect for us if the price is right.
That a midtable PL club can beat United shows how poor united is and not how good the mid table club is. You claim PL clubs dont care for Europa but why do they struggle to qualify for it? Tottenham were in the Europa cos they couldnt make it out of their group in CL. Recent meetings have shown that the average la liga team is better than the average PL team and that the top la liga teams are better than the top PL teams. PL being competitive only shows how narrow the margin is and not a reflection of quality. PL teams are more likely to be embarrassed in Europe than La liga.
Can you give me a player that plays well at club and NT and is still crap? When there is a difference between NT and club performance, once can look deeper to see why, but when you have players that perform consistently well or poorly on both stages, then there is no need to look further. Morata has performed well on both stages.
But he did outscore llorente in the Serie A, even with his limited minutes.
It is not cherry picking but further evidence of that when he was given an opportunity he performed. If I was cherry picking, then how do you explain him being voted into the CL team of the season (with the other forwards being Messi, Neymar, Suarez and CR7)
Benzema has not declined and he is still as good as he has always been. What you miss is that Benzema has never been a great goal scorer, and his performance this season is not too far from his tally in 2013
So he struggled against one team and didnt play against the other two is proof of what? That doesnt change the fact he scored against the remaining half.
Madrid want to buy Mbappe not because he is better than what they have but because he is the next boy toy for Perez. Every summer, Perez will buy a flavor of the month and he will sell who he can to balance the books. The fact that he sold Makelele, Sneijder, Robben, Ozil, and Di Maria, does not make any of them a lesser player. Most importantly, Madrid do not want to sell Morata, it is morata that wants to leave.
http://www.marca.com/futbol/real-madrid/2017/05/26/592720cc268e3e9c058b45f7.html
Mourinho to Madrid: De Gea for 75m€ or Morata + 25m€.
The article also says that Morata is the first option for Mourinho and second for Conte. They say that for Mourinho James doesn´t fit so well as Morata
Madrid consider that Morata for 50m@€ is too cheap and wait a better offer, although Milan is still the first option for the player
Mourinho to Madrid: De Gea for 75m€ or Morata + 25m€.
The article also says that Morata is the first option for Mourinho and second for Conte. They say that for Mourinho James doesn´t fit so well as Morata
Madrid consider that Morata for 50m@€ is too cheap and wait a better offer, although Milan is still the first option for the player
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Is the reporter of that article reliable? Or is it more Marca mind games.
Yes, is the assistant director, quite serious journalist.
Who is too interested in James?
Sorry, I edited. They write that for Mourinho James doesn´t fit too well but Morata does
Not good enough mate, let him go Milan and prove himself. Like someone said Auba cost £12m etc proved himself and would still probabaly cost less than Morata. His value makes no sense, he looks the part big, strong skilful but so does Danny Welbeck.
No worries. Thanks 4 the info
He goes to another club to 'prove' himself and then you want us to buy him or someone else at a world record price for 2-3yrs of service? That is a bad plan.
Auba is all dandy when the attack is free flowing and he can use his pace, but what does he offer when there is limited space and you need to forage and feed off scraps? Also Auba is 288 this summer and will be a stretch to get 3yrs of peak performance out of him, dealing with AFCON absence, and then we will be back in the market looking for another striker. He may be cheaper but we are also getting much less value in return.
I'd like to see Welbeck score 20 goals for Real. He's being so underrated here, also Aubameyang would be £70m+ easily.
Mou wants Morata and values him at €50m, at least according to Marca.
Actually it is a reflection on quality, europe has always been bit of a achilles heel to english clubs doesn't mean they are poor,europa league is treated worse than league cup in england and FA scheduling doesn't really help its case, 2 english teams in last 2 seasons took europa seriously, 1 reached the final and blew the lead other won the cup. Eventually finish in europe does not tell us about actual ability, even Man utd couldn't make it out of their CL group, does that mean Wolfsburg and PSV are better teams than utd, this season utd finished behind fenerbahce in europa are fenerbahce better than man utd, i agree that Real and Barca right now are miles ahead of any english team, but other teams are not, you are not taking in the pl money into the equation, no midtable lal liga team can compete with your midtbale english team, and again my point wasn't the league strength just saying man utd vs burnley is a lot more difficult than, real madrid vs deportivo.
Is he really that good with spain though, i looked at his actual matches his goals normally come against teams spain are supposed to beat, looked completely average against belgium, germany and italy and expectedly couldn't score against any of those. Again not saying he is a bad player but he isn't good enough yet, if we had a team that scored a lot and had many other scoring outlets i would take a risk on him, but as our first choice no 9, i just don't think he is that good.
It is cherry picking when you say top 8 knowing full well that he didn't score against any of the top 4.
I have watched him in a few games, atleast to me he looks like he has gone down hill, his nos were never that great but his overall play has gone down.
What it shows is, for starters he isn't rated to be good enough to get minutes in big games, secondly sevilla may be just 1 team but it is also the only real good team he has faced, he has been given less than 10 minutes in all against dortmund, barcelona, bayern, atletico madrid. Against the only good team he actually got time against he failed miserably. What is more interesting is lucas vasquez and marco asensio have played bigger roles in those matches than morata did.
Can't disagree with that, but my question is more pertaining to his being a spanish NT player, it seems surprising that madrid would even contemplate selling a spanish NT starter.
My biggest problem with this transfer is they will be asking for 60-70 mn for their benchwarmer who isn't even in the top 5 strikers of the world but want to pay only 70 mn for our starting gk who also happens to be the current best ( or second best if you are a bayern fan) keeper in the world.
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Very good post, well said. I'd be very keen on Morata, not only for the the reasons you have given, but also because I think he would compliment Griezmann excellently.
Well this is it. I never want to buy him, he can go AC and prove himself, by the time that happened Mbappe will probably be a top class striker or Rashford and Martial. The point it we don't need him and never will. What is so different to him and Welbeck someone explain? I bet their record isn't much different, even this goal per minutes. Welbeck is injured most of his career but scores when he plays so I'm sure his minutes per goals is good too.
Aubaneyang isn't going for 70m and Welbeck would score 20 goals in all competitions in this Madrid side.
The top 3 teams in la liga are better than all the PL teams. When the lower teams of have met, the la liga teas have had the upper hand more often than not. When Liverpool lost to Sevilla, each finished 8th and 7th respectively. There is simply no better way to measure it.
You make reference to burnley but Celta knocked Madrid out of the CdR over 2 legs (not the single game upset that is possible in England). Malaga, Deportivo and Celta all beat Barcelona while even Eibar gave them a run for their money in the final game. The PL money is squandered paying for overrated players that are 'PL proven' that is why Everton can dream of getting 100m for lukaku and 50m for Barkley.
For his age and the minutes he has had, he is very good. His error was letting Madrid put a buy back clause in his contract, which inhibited Juve from seeing him as a long term player (which turned out to be true). If he had been sold outrightly to a club where he would get minutes, he would be much better than he is currently.
That wasnt the intention. Earlier I wrote teams finished 5th-8th and it just read wrong and felt half of top 8 read easier
I actually think he is more settled into his role as midwife to CR7 and is no longer wasting effort trying to prove he is some premier goal scorer. His assist against Atletico is an example of what he is best at.
Morata is up against CR and Benzema for minutes cos even Benzema has to vacate the middle for CR during games. Vasquez and Asensio play on the flank and with Bale being injured both have gooten more minutes.
I personally dont rate either player highly. Asensio has skills but I think he is overhyped while Vasquez is Real Madrid's Lingard with a lower football iq. If Vasquez wasnt from castilla there is no way he would be in a madrid shirt
Perez will sell anybody that is not his current favorite galactico. He sold makele to buy beckham and asked the coach to play him as DM. He declined Ronaldinho cos he felt wasnt good looking enough. With Perez you take the best with worst cos he can sign almost any target (got Figo who was captain of barcelona) and will sell off some very good ones as well.[/quote]
his overall play is pretty good the only question about him was his finishing, which he seems to have improved this season, looks more like a Jose prefered striker compared with lukaku, a lot of Jose's teams the strikers dont actually have massive numbers of goals, seem to be about creating space for others and working for the team.
Morata is closer to being a top class striker than any of Mbappe, Rashford or Martial, and the likelihood that any of those three will be at that level in 3yrs is even less. In 3yrs from now, the top class strikers will be players like Morata, Kane, Icardi and similar age bracket.
That you compare Morata to Welbeck shows you have no idea how good morata is or how poor welbeck is (or both). Even on goals per mins, Morata scores at 4x the rate of Welbeck.
I'll beat you right now those 3 strikers have better careers than Morata who just seems to be a top club journey man at the minute.
Except for this season there goal scoring record is the same. If Welbeck could stay fit I'm sure he could funder a 15 goal season too. Very disrespectful to put him next to Kane he's in another league.
If you sign Griezmann, he'd be a perfect signing. Real would be stupid to let him go but I can actually see them doing it and getting Mbappé.
He's a very modern striker, he can do everything well. Hold up the ball, link up, dribble, good in the air, good with the ball at his feet, he can score, assist, etc. and he's only 24. He's getting underrated by many people here, he's definitely worth the 60 million euros he'd cost.
He's a very modern striker, he can do everything well. Hold up the ball, link up, dribble, good in the air, good with the ball at his feet, he can score, assist, etc. and he's only 24. He's getting underrated by many people here, he's definitely worth the 60 million euros he'd cost.
I just watched YouTube videos of him. I'm now convinced that we need him. Get it done woody.
@cheeky_backheel lets just agree to disagree on morata, i am too lazy to do another point by point, but since i am the one the who has graciously accepted to call it a draw, i am claiming moral victory on this one
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.Morata wouldn't be being bought for solely his goals, he's a great fit for Griezmann if you look at their games, same way Benzema is a great fit for Ronnie. It's about building an attack that fits, not just one that has cool players in it, we've been a disjointed mess up top most of the season as we don't have players that compliment each others strengths.
People seriously live in the fecking clouds! Morata not good for us? He's scored like 18 goals last season for Real coming off the bench.
You'd swear we had Messi Suarez and Neymar up front with the way so many of our fans turn their noses up at quality players. It's so strange.
Juventus wanted him and Real recalled him. Juventus wanted him. Juventus. That's good enough for me. Sign him up, Woody.
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