Lukaku isn't just PL proven, he's proven period. 20+ goals in last three seasons. He has also been generally scoring more goals each season. He is as close as we can get to guaranteed 20-25 goals in the league for the next season. Morata on the other hand has had a single good goal scoring season. But I feel like this debate is fruitless, we are going to get Morata and not Lukaku so here's hoping that he slaps 30 league goals in my face playing for us in the coming season.
Álvaro Morata | Chelsea player
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Lukaku isn't just PL proven, he's proven period. 20+ goals in last three seasons. He has also been generally scoring more goals each season. He is as close as we can get to guaranteed 20-25 goals in the league for the next season. Morata on the other hand has had a single good goal scoring season. But I feel like this debate is fruitless, we are going to get Morata and not Lukaku so here's hoping that he slaps 30 league goals in my face playing for us in the coming season.
Lukaku has scored his 25 goals this season in 18 games of the total 38 in the EPL, that means there are 20 games, more than half of the season, that he didn't score in it, so his goals are basically collected in some games but hardly consistent through the whole league as any top striker.
Morata has scored in 12 out of 26 league games? And why are we using such specific stats anyway? Over the course of the season is what makes a player. There are plenty of dry spells for any player in the world, Ronaldo was deemed finished at some point in the last season if I remember correctly.
So the goals in the Community Shield and League Cup Final which earned us trophies weren't big games? A hat-trick in a European knock-out game?
Not to mention the four (I think) games where we drew 1-1 and he got our goal. He stepped up when we needed him all season.
We're talking about how Lukaku is a PL proven player because he scores 25 goals each season and that means he's consistent, well from the distribution of the goals he's not that consistent, he didn't score in more than half of the league, instead gathering his goals as braces and hattrick in some games. I'll prefer to have a striker that his numbers are well distributed through the season, not scoring 3 goals in one game then goes on scoring zero in the next 3.
And 12 / 26 is a better ration than 18 / 38 I suppose.
I was talking about goals in Top 6 teams and I think that's what he meant, and I defended Zlatan's a lot through the season so I didn't mean to say he wasn't valuable to us, but I meant the point of Morata not helping us in big games as Zlatan is irrelevant. Morata also scored in a cup final for Juve.
This is why I'm glad we never went for Messi, scores far too many hat-tricks.
I understand this will probably be a solid signing but I can't say I'm excited by it.
Missing out on Griezmann pretty much meant our summer would be quite limited imo.
We needed to add a couple of world class attackers.
Missing out on Griezmann pretty much meant our summer would be quite limited imo.
We needed to add a couple of world class attackers.
Taking a sentence out of the whole post without looking to the other sentences around it isn't really a very smart idea.
Messi goals are well distributed through the season and never goes missing. It's not just about scoring hattrick, it's about scoring a hattrick in one game then goes missing in the next 3. Messi will score a hattrick in all 3 games.
I feel like the people who don't want morata haven't taken the time to watch him play.
Good first touch, strong, reasonably quick, very good in the air, likes to run at defenders and take them on, slaloms in the box, good finisher, though sometimes he can make the wrong choice like any young player.
I for one would welcome him as our new striking overlord
Good first touch, strong, reasonably quick, very good in the air, likes to run at defenders and take them on, slaloms in the box, good finisher, though sometimes he can make the wrong choice like any young player.
I for one would welcome him as our new striking overlord
Sounds like Messi, only stronger and better in the air.
12/26 is 46% and 18/38 is 47%. So Lukaku fairs better just slightly if we go by that statistic, although there isn't anything in it really.
I am just saying that there are still a lot of factors that play a part in these super detailed statistics. For example - Morata not playing full 90 minutes of games many times, Lukaku playing for a much weaker side that cannot afford to try and add to their goals when they are in winning positions etc.
Starter and main man vs a sub off the bench. No proper metrics to compare them. You just have to look at qualities like first touch, technical skill on the ball, movement, ability to hold-up play and involve others. That's where Morata nails it for me.
Oh and as an example for stats, check minutes per goal / assist. Again, meaningless for comparing I'll admit since a sub has a better chance of a good ratio there.
Got you! I've got nothing against Morata btw, just obviously misunderstood your post about Zlatan.
I think people confused signings that are exciting against signings that are just highly logical nowadays. Morata fit the profile of a Mourinho striker, has shown he has plenty to offer in both the Spanish and Italian leagues and is a great age to really kick on. Sure, maybe it's not the biggest name in the world but it's such an obvious signing that we'd be crazy to not go for it.
Yes so you agree with me.
The only statistic that matters for a striker is the number of goals scored in a season. And maybe the assists sometimes but even they can be grossly misleading. Goals per minute stat is useful side metric but can't be used as the reason to prefer a player over another.
As for all the technical skills you mention, I think Morata and Lukaku are pretty much the same but Lukaku sometimes gets way more scrutiny since he plays in PL and we actually watch him a lot more.
Moratas technical skills far outweigh lukaku. By far.Yes so you agree with me.
The only statistic that matters for a striker is the number of goals scored in a season. And maybe the assists sometimes but even they can be grossly misleading. Goals per minute stat is useful side metric but can't be used as the reason to prefer a player over another.
As for all the technical skills you mention, I think Morata and Lukaku are pretty much the same but Lukaku sometimes gets way more scrutiny since he plays in PL and we actually watch him a lot more.
Well you said it yourself, Morata was a sub most of times while Lukaku was always a starter, that in fact hurts Lukaku's percentage more because he's always playing but still goes missing for many games in the league without scoring. For a constant starter and " PL proven ", Lukaku should have been scoring in more games than 18 only in the league.
Yep, agree completely.
It doesn't really 'hurt' Lukaku's ratio of number of games scored in to games played which in itself is a weird stat to use but if you're going to use it then Lukaku is still better. Basically every argument that is in favor of Morata is based on his goals-per-minute stat and his apparent technical ability which is so apparent to many fans. These two arguments are equivalent of "PL proven" argument that some keep harping about. They are both useful arguments but there isn't much in it.
A proven track record of scoring consistently for 3 years for a player aged only 24 is far more convincing, to me anyway.
I don't think I brought the goal/minute ratio nor the technical abilities of Morata in this discussion. I was more talking about Lukaku being consistent or not, which I don't really think so considering the distribution rate of his goals through the season isn't really that good for a constant starter that played every game for mostly 90 minutes. Morata was used a sub most of the time and it's understandable that he may not get a constant chances of scoring every game but what's Lukaku excuse ?
Anyway, the next season will be the real test for both so let's see.
Last season Morata was on fire. 3 goals against Legumes, 2 goals against C Leonesa, another 2 goals against Granada and goals against Legia Warsaw, Sporting Gijon and Sociedad. He seem to carry these goalscoring instinct against this sort of Spanish Liga/CL greats with the national team were he lead the might of Spain with 2 goals against Liechtenstein.The best three teams he scored against were Sporting Lisbon, Napoli and Atletico Bilbao which less face it, are tough nuts to crack when you've got Real Madrid's goalscoring machine behind you. That's quite an achievement for the 90m rated striker
Initially I felt that what you said is the same argument as minutes per game but fair enough it is more than that.
For Lukaku, his main excuse is that he doesn't play for Real Madrid, simple as that really. Everton is not exactly a team where the main striker will ever be able to score consistently. Other than Lukaku, I would struggle to find one attacking player in that side who would be considered above average over the course of the season. It's incredible how he's still managed to score so many goals in that team.
Well I can consider this a fair excuse, so the real test for him will be when he transfers for a big club that makes chances constantly, just like Morata who will get his chance to be a constant starter instead of being a sub. Next season will be proof for both.
Yes, and if we get Morata, I will obviously hope that Lukaku shits the bed and our man gets the golden boot.
You could argue they were not our biggest games of the season, not all about the goals he scored, Zlatan missed a lot of sitters in plenty these games as well, did he not go threw a spell were he never scored for quite a long period as well?
League Cup final wasnt a big game?
when did i say that ? i asked if it was one of our biggest of the season, quite frankly it would be down the list quite a bit in the importance of our season, same with the charity shield.
He didn't play against the bigger teams last season. The manager prefered Benzema. He can only beat what's in front of him. It's not he struggles in big games, He's scored 2x vs Dortmund in an CL QF, 2x vs Real Madrid in a CL SF, scored and assisted vs Bayern in a CL QL and in a CL final vs Barcelona. He's goal scoring record in the finals he's played so far in his career is 2/2. If anything he's a big game player.
I was being hilarious.
If he's so great then why cant he play against top clubs
It's the manager's perogotive. At Juve he specifically played in the big games, at RM the manager prefered Benzema.
Ronaldo's record is even better and to support him in the best way, Benzema has to start. Impact of that duo is far greater than what Morata plus Ronaldo would have.
Unfortunately, most games Morata starts are not with the usual Madrid XI, but Madrid's B team which would see him playing alongside other Madrid rejects like Isco, James, Kovacevic, Asensio, Vasquez etc
As to the tough nuts
- against Sporting, he was a sub for like 23mins and scored the winning goal in injury time (assisted by another sub and reject in James)
- against Napoli he was a sub for 13mins and scored a late goal to seal the game as Madrid were leading by 2-1 already.
- against Bilbao he was a sub for 15min and again scored the winner.
He usually came on as a sub for Benzema and thus cannot be said to have gotten the benefit of being an extra striker
To have a fairer comparison to Lukaku, one can compare games in which each started
- Lukaku 25 goals in 36 starts in PL = 69%
- Morata 11 goals in 14 starts in la liga = 79%
If a player can score 11 goals in 14 starts, it shouldnt be too difficult to get 20+ in 38 games.
Yes there is a risk factor in that he has never been a starter for a full season before, but there is enough evidence to support he will likely come good than not. He might never become a WC #9, but he should have no problem being one of the best PL strikers.
He wasn't a first teamer at Juventus either
Dont you think Lukaku would be a beast against the likes of Granada and C Leonesa?
This is just how goal scoring works. Unless you're scoring 30+ league goals, which almost never happens, you're almost never going to be scoring in 20 or more games.
Harry Kane last three seasons scored in 16, 17, 14 games. Aguero last three seasons scored in 15, 15, 17 games. Even when Suarez scored 31 in his last year for Liverpool, he only struck in 18 games.
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